The spiral platforming part in the sylvari area nearly gave me a cerebral hemorrhage. All that just to tame a spider pet. The pet's worth it, sorta, but goddamn that platforming part. Never again.
You missed the next part to that puzzle :twisted:
I...y-...no. Nope. No. I didn't read that. Never again.
Enemies in GW2 don't all just have random agro. Different ones have different patterns, especially the bosses.
Besides that, there are TONS of ways to "redirect" enemy attention in this game. You just "tank" by using conditions and position moves.
Just off the top of my head, on my guardian, these are the things I can do to redirect enemies, and this doesn't even include things like blinds which I have tons of to make enemies miss, which is way of preventing incoming damage:
Shield: aoe knockback move to blast melees away from my squishy teammates
2h hammer: single target knockback, multi target immobilize, create a ring of terrain that enemies can't cross, so you can trap them in, or trap them outside to protect people
2h sword: #5 lets you chain enemies then pull them to you, pulling them off your allies
Staff: You shall not pass gandalf line enemies can't cross.
As a fellow guardian, I found that almost none of that stuff worked on actual bosses. The lovers, for example, appeared immune to every single knockback I had. People ran through my ring ward over and over again.
No one is denying we have the tools to control monsters: I feel that as a guardian I have tons of monster control. Most if just doesn't seem to work in dungeons.
People are pointing out that if you have no aggro mechanics *and* the bosses are immune to all your normal control abilities, you can have problems.
Not that I think hamfisted 'aggro' mechanics are the best way to go. I much prefer abilities that act upon your allies to help them - like the daoc guard and intercept.
The reason the lovers got immune is because your group spammed too much cc. Have everyone pick up a boulder before the fight. Toss them in sequence to move the guy away, and profit. If you cc him too often he'll briefly become immune to CC, it usually drops off after a few seconds though. The boulders are really the easiest way to deal with moving him.
Most people are trying to brute force these encounters which is making them infinitely harder than they need to be. There is much more finesse involved.
I didn't find AC hard. It's trivial if you throw boulders at everything all the time, which we did on our first time through, and didn't wipe once. It's just a bit silly that you replace all your weaponskills with boulder throwing.
I highly doubt the lovers were immune to my knockbacks because my group was spamming CC on them; I charged in to open the fight and immediately tried a knockback, which did nothing. So, I switched over to boulder throwing. Which works really well against any boss, and you should bring boulders with you from one boss to the next for maximum cheese.
But if someone *wasn't* deploying mass amounts of boulder spam I can see how they'd have trouble, and it's not just because they are dummies trying to brute force the dungeon.
Also I think the single best preparation for GW2 combat is Dark Souls, where nobody can tank all that damage so you get good at dodging. Combine that with the standard MMO raid guidelines like "don't stand in the bad stuff, don't clump up and get aoed all at once" and you're pretty much golden, I think. Also be willing to abuse the heck out of environmental weapons like boulders
Unpopular opinion time: @Corehealer, I think the OP could really benefit from a little tidying up. Obviously pre-purchase info doesn't need to be there. The wall of boners could be moved to the community section. Put some of the trailers in spoilers. Drop the lines about professions being confirmed. Dungeon modes could be expanded on now that the game is actually out. Most of the press stuff could go.
Enemies in GW2 don't all just have random agro. Different ones have different patterns, especially the bosses.
Besides that, there are TONS of ways to "redirect" enemy attention in this game. You just "tank" by using conditions and position moves.
Just off the top of my head, on my guardian, these are the things I can do to redirect enemies, and this doesn't even include things like blinds which I have tons of to make enemies miss, which is way of preventing incoming damage:
Shield: aoe knockback move to blast melees away from my squishy teammates
2h hammer: single target knockback, multi target immobilize, create a ring of terrain that enemies can't cross, so you can trap them in, or trap them outside to protect people
2h sword: #5 lets you chain enemies then pull them to you, pulling them off your allies
Staff: You shall not pass gandalf line enemies can't cross.
As a fellow guardian, I found that almost none of that stuff worked on actual bosses. The lovers, for example, appeared immune to every single knockback I had. People ran through my ring ward over and over again.
No one is denying we have the tools to control monsters: I feel that as a guardian I have tons of monster control. Most if just doesn't seem to work in dungeons.
People are pointing out that if you have no aggro mechanics *and* the bosses are immune to all your normal control abilities, you can have problems.
Not that I think hamfisted 'aggro' mechanics are the best way to go. I much prefer abilities that act upon your allies to help them - like the daoc guard and intercept.
2 things:
1) From what I've found in the dungeons I've done through level 60, the enemies between the bosses are harder than the bosses themselves. Control tools, utilizing combo fields, etc. is the way to go, and they're susceptible to all of this.
2) I haven't found a boss yet that is permanently immune to CC. They have defiance stacks, so you have to use less important CCs to drop the stacks and save your good, longer duration hard CCs for when they're susceptible, but that's just part of it, and I talked about that in the post.
Also, anybody who is running a thief in dungeons, go sword/pistol. The stun on #3 and the daze on #4 can both be used to drop defiant stacks to open bosses up for longer CCs for your group, and on the enemies between bosses #5 putting down the aoe blind field is amazingly useful. If you also run smoke screen you're just the MVP of the group. 7 second duration smoke screen that pulses blinds on enemies in it and blocks projectiles. Seriously, it's amazing.
The spiral platforming part in the sylvari area nearly gave me a cerebral hemorrhage. All that just to tame a spider pet. The pet's worth it, sorta, but goddamn that platforming part. Never again.
You missed the next part to that puzzle :twisted:
I...y-...no. Nope. No. I didn't read that. Never again.
There's actually two more parts.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I wish there was a way to change how my characters look without re-rolling them
Yeah, a level 15 dude isn't that hard to get back to again, but that doesn't mean I want to do this
I want to change just a few things about my asura's face that really bother me, but I don't want to start him over
also because I have a weird disorder or something where it takes me literally months to make a character I am happy with...unless I have the ability to change them on a whim. Wow's barbershop was good/bad for this, and so was CoX
Enemies in GW2 don't all just have random agro. Different ones have different patterns, especially the bosses.
Besides that, there are TONS of ways to "redirect" enemy attention in this game. You just "tank" by using conditions and position moves.
Just off the top of my head, on my guardian, these are the things I can do to redirect enemies, and this doesn't even include things like blinds which I have tons of to make enemies miss, which is way of preventing incoming damage:
Shield: aoe knockback move to blast melees away from my squishy teammates
2h hammer: single target knockback, multi target immobilize, create a ring of terrain that enemies can't cross, so you can trap them in, or trap them outside to protect people
2h sword: #5 lets you chain enemies then pull them to you, pulling them off your allies
Staff: You shall not pass gandalf line enemies can't cross.
As a fellow guardian, I found that almost none of that stuff worked on actual bosses. The lovers, for example, appeared immune to every single knockback I had. People ran through my ring ward over and over again.
No one is denying we have the tools to control monsters: I feel that as a guardian I have tons of monster control. Most if just doesn't seem to work in dungeons.
People are pointing out that if you have no aggro mechanics *and* the bosses are immune to all your normal control abilities, you can have problems.
Not that I think hamfisted 'aggro' mechanics are the best way to go. I much prefer abilities that act upon your allies to help them - like the daoc guard and intercept.
2 things:
1) From what I've found in the dungeons I've done through level 60, the enemies between the bosses are harder than the bosses themselves. Control tools, utilizing combo fields, etc. is the way to go, and they're susceptible to all of this.
2) I haven't found a boss yet that is permanently immune to CC. They have defiance stacks, so you have to use less important CCs to drop the stacks and save your good, longer duration hard CCs for when they're susceptible, but that's just part of it, and I talked about that in the post.
Also, anybody who is running a thief in dungeons, go sword/pistol. The stun on #3 and the daze on #4 can both be used to drop defiant stacks to open bosses up for longer CCs for your group, and on the enemies between bosses #5 putting down the aoe blind field is amazingly useful. If you also run smoke screen you're just the MVP of the group. 7 second duration smoke screen that pulses blinds on enemies in it and blocks projectiles. Seriously, it's amazing.
I think he keeps ignoring that second part. I keep pointing it out.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
The spiral platforming part in the sylvari area nearly gave me a cerebral hemorrhage. All that just to tame a spider pet. The pet's worth it, sorta, but goddamn that platforming part. Never again.
You missed the next part to that puzzle :twisted:
There was a next part past the random guy on the ledge next to the chest after the leap of faith and random non-aggroing mobs around him?
When I talked earlier about a lack of aggro mechanics, what I meant was that the game doesn't tell us why mobs sometimes attack one target but not another target. Mobs seem to choose targets for inexplicable reasons.
Unpopular opinion time: @Corehealer, I think the OP could really benefit from a little tidying up. Obviously pre-purchase info doesn't need to be there. The wall of boners could be moved to the community section. Put some of the trailers in spoilers. Drop the lines about professions being confirmed. Dungeon modes could be expanded on now that the game is actually out. Most of the press stuff could go.
Might have to wait a bit. At least until @Corehealer stops playing the game long enough to do so ;-)
The spiral platforming part in the sylvari area nearly gave me a cerebral hemorrhage. All that just to tame a spider pet. The pet's worth it, sorta, but goddamn that platforming part. Never again.
You missed the next part to that puzzle :twisted:
I...y-...no. Nope. No. I didn't read that. Never again.
I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this, but I feel the need to point this out.
DO NOT GO TO METRICA PROVINCE. IT IS THE MOST ANTI-FUN MAP EVER.
Why, you may ask? Two reasons:
1) It has the hardest boss in the game.
2) The main reason why this is the worst map. That goddamn hidden platforming puzzle.
Don't forget the Champion Ooze. Also a bullshit boss.
As far as jumping puzzles go. I choose not to do them. Problem solved.
Whenever someone asks "Hey, want to do a dungeon?" I'm always enthusiastic. Until I get halfway through the dungeon, and I wonder WTF am I doing with my time. A majority of the fights are just not enjoyable to me. Most of them have 1 mechanic that you absolutely must dodge that they do about every 10 seconds, and then they have enough health to make the fight last 10+ minutes.
The dungeons seem to drag on and on. And I don't have the willpower to say no to something I haven't seen before. It's always "Well, maybe this dungeon will be different?" And it never is. It never is. Just a long slog through a dungeon.
I understand the argument that the dungeon sets are just for vanity, and because of that it's okay to require a grind. But, dungeons require a full group of people to do. If I am someone that doesn't give a shit about the dungeon set, or am just not willing to grind out 70 runs of that dungeon, what is my reasoning to help you out other than we are bros? It is my belief that the majority of the player base is not willing to put in the time and effort to acquire these dungeon sets. So what we are left with is people begging friends to do a dungeon with them, or finding a guild that is dedicated to getting people these sets.
So how is this different from WoW Raiding?
You underestimate the number of completionists and vanity lovers out there.
People farm ACHIEVEMENTS. In all matter of games. It's basically a currency that cannot be used for anything. And you think if given a prize they can wear about the game world they won't do that?
Yea, of course there are. Just like there are people that wanted Harder raids in WoW, and will go to extremes to be the first ones to beat these super hard bosses. So people dedicated to putting together these dungeon sets are going to do what their predecessors have done before them. Band together and create guilds that run the shit out of these dungeons so people can get their sets. Or stand in Lion's Arch for an hour looking for other people just like them, or people ignorant to the fact they will get nothing tangible from the dungeon run, just to do a dungeon for the 45th time.
So the MMO that is supposed to be different from other MMOs, really isn't. Except instead of having bosses with very different mechanics, we get the same boss 80% of the time (does an ability you must dodge every 10 seconds for 10 minutes) and an interesting fun unique fight 20% of the time.
I guess that's enjoyable to some people, and some others really love the fact that they will be special little snowflakes in the gear they grinded hours in the same place for. That's not me, and it certainly can't be the 2-3million+ playerbase that make up this game.
I don't really have a problem with it, because I don't like any of the sets, and therefore won't run the dungeons 70 times. I'll do them a couple times, maybe run one specific one to try and make a legendary item as my personal grind. Maybe, you only need 250 badges from a specific dungeon depending on legendary, right? If the dungeons were fun and interesting, it'd likely be different, but even still 70 times is a lot. I'd have to look up my characters in WoW but ever since the armory started tracking dungeon runs, I don't think I've ran one dungeon for the things I wanted more than 16-20 times. No way in hell I'm doing the same dungeon 70 times for anything. That's just excessive IMO.
If I was that type of player though, considering what I've seen of the dungeons so far, I'd be pretty concerned that I'd have a hard time finding people I like well enough to do these dungeons enough times to get my armor.
The spiral platforming part in the sylvari area nearly gave me a cerebral hemorrhage. All that just to tame a spider pet. The pet's worth it, sorta, but goddamn that platforming part. Never again.
You missed the next part to that puzzle :twisted:
I...y-...no. Nope. No. I didn't read that. Never again.
I hope they deal with the "glowy ball of death" syndrome on smaller bosses. It's impossible to engage them at short range if you can't see when to dodge, etc.
I jumping puzzles, maybe it's just growing up with Metroid and Mario. Metroid was unforgiving as all fuck, particularly the escape given the floatiness of the original game's behavior, so I ended up pretty damn good at them after a while.
The Great DAMNED STEAM SALES AND WII/U Backlog Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4 Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
I jumping puzzles, maybe it's just growing up with Metroid and Mario. Metroid was unforgiving as all fuck, particularly the escape given the floatiness of the original game's behavior, so I ended up pretty damn good at them after a while.
Same here, I look forward to the jumping puzzles and i'm glad some of them are as challenging as they are because it makes it that much more rewarding when I complete them.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Whenever someone asks "Hey, want to do a dungeon?" I'm always enthusiastic. Until I get halfway through the dungeon, and I wonder WTF am I doing with my time. A majority of the fights are just not enjoyable to me. Most of them have 1 mechanic that you absolutely must dodge that they do about every 10 seconds, and then they have enough health to make the fight last 10+ minutes.
The dungeons seem to drag on and on. And I don't have the willpower to say no to something I haven't seen before. It's always "Well, maybe this dungeon will be different?" And it never is. It never is. Just a long slog through a dungeon.
I understand the argument that the dungeon sets are just for vanity, and because of that it's okay to require a grind. But, dungeons require a full group of people to do. If I am someone that doesn't give a shit about the dungeon set, or am just not willing to grind out 70 runs of that dungeon, what is my reasoning to help you out other than we are bros? It is my belief that the majority of the player base is not willing to put in the time and effort to acquire these dungeon sets. So what we are left with is people begging friends to do a dungeon with them, or finding a guild that is dedicated to getting people these sets.
So how is this different from WoW Raiding?
You underestimate the number of completionists and vanity lovers out there.
People farm ACHIEVEMENTS. In all matter of games. It's basically a currency that cannot be used for anything. And you think if given a prize they can wear about the game world they won't do that?
Yea, of course there are. Just like there are people that wanted Harder raids in WoW, and will go to extremes to be the first ones to beat these super hard bosses. So people dedicated to putting together these dungeon sets are going to do what their predecessors have done before them. Band together and create guilds that run the shit out of these dungeons so people can get their sets. Or stand in Lion's Arch for an hour looking for other people just like them, or people ignorant to the fact they will get nothing tangible from the dungeon run, just to do a dungeon for the 45th time.
So the MMO that is supposed to be different from other MMOs, really isn't. Except instead of having bosses with very different mechanics, we get the same boss 80% of the time (does an ability you must dodge every 10 seconds for 10 minutes) and an interesting fun unique fight 20% of the time.
I guess that's enjoyable to some people, and some others really love the fact that they will be special little snowflakes in the gear they grinded hours in the same place for. That's not me, and it certainly can't be the 2-3million+ playerbase that make up this game.
I don't really have a problem with it, because I don't like any of the sets, and therefore won't run the dungeons 70 times. I'll do them a couple times, maybe run one specific one to try and make a legendary item as my personal grind. Maybe, you only need 250 badges from a specific dungeon depending on legendary, right? If the dungeons were fun and interesting, it'd likely be different, but even still 70 times is a lot. I'd have to look up my characters in WoW but ever since the armory started tracking dungeon runs, I don't think I've ran one dungeon for the things I wanted more than 16-20 times. No way in hell I'm doing the same dungeon 70 times for anything. That's just excessive IMO.
If I was that type of player though, considering what I've seen of the dungeons so far, I'd be pretty concerned that I'd have a hard time finding people I like well enough to do these dungeons enough times to get my armor.
My point is there will be enough of them. The idea is that the option is there for those that want it. There will be extremists who want every set. There will be people who will never do any runs. And there will be everything in between. Some people may want just 1 piece. Some people want 1 set. There will be people to make the runs.
What's more important here is that if you are not interested it doesn't effect you in the slightest. So it really doesn't matter.
I will say that when you learn that your character has air control, jumping puzzles become much easier. I've learned that unless you are doing a long jump, its almost always better to jump AND THEN do your movement. Much easier to control.
When I talked earlier about a lack of aggro mechanics, what I meant was that the game doesn't tell us why mobs sometimes attack one target but not another target. Mobs seem to choose targets for inexplicable reasons.
To me that's part of the fun of it. It's basically an action game. You don't get to know why the warrior decided to put his sword in your elementalist, you just either stun him, pull him off, knock him back, or the elementalist chills/cripples/immobilizes him and gets away. Everybody has to be on their toes at all times, just how I like it.
PvE, especially the dungeons, is basically like a primer for PvP in this game. You must learn to peel for yourself, and utilize CC.
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
Oh don't get me wrong, I usually enjoy the jumping puzzles, but that one specifically gave me fits because of the A) random rumbling and spazzy camera once you get near a wall (which happens a few times). Between those things and the random character freezes that seem to happen to me, it was a profanity-laced evening.
Did anybody else come? I think he was the only forumer who introduced himself.
I was there. Posted this right after:
"Finally got into the gw2 party at about 9. Arenanet are super awesome folks, and I'm totally stoked to be playing their game. They gave out some artwork with room for autographs, and my girl and I made an effort to get a signature and some chat from everyone there. Every single person was gracious, and curious how we were playing their game. Glad to be supporting them with my gem habit."
I started to introduce myself to someone I *thought* was you, but she got a scared look on her face, and I got embarrassed and ran away. (No worries, this is a typical Saturday night for me)
Did anybody else come? I think he was the only forumer who introduced himself.
I was there. Posted this right after:
"Finally got into the gw2 party at about 9. Arenanet are super awesome folks, and I'm totally stoked to be playing their game. They gave out some artwork with room for autographs, and my girl and I made an effort to get a signature and some chat from everyone there. Every single person was gracious, and curious how we were playing their game. Glad to be supporting them with my gem habit."
I started to introduce myself to someone I *thought* was you, but she got a scared look on her face, and I got embarrassed and ran away. (No worries, this is a typical Saturday night for me)
Aw, bummer! I was chilling up by the bar (natch) and I don't scare easy. You may have met another of our resident redheads.
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Triple BBastard of the NorthMARegistered Userregular
There is something on which I am unclear.
Do the waypoints inside dungeons count towards map completion percentage?
So the MMO that is supposed to be different from other MMOs, really isn't. Except instead of having bosses with very different mechanics, we get the same boss 80% of the time (does an ability you must dodge every 10 seconds for 10 minutes) and an interesting fun unique fight 20% of the time.
... I'd have to look up my characters in WoW but ever since the armory started tracking dungeon runs, I don't think I've ran one dungeon for the things I wanted more than 16-20 times. No way in hell I'm doing the same dungeon 70 times for anything. That's just excessive IMO.
These are the two main problems with it. I really don't care if it's just for 'vanity' items. The point is that the MMO that's supposed to be different from all other MMO's is actually far WORSE than WOW in terms of repetitively running the same thing over and over again.
And please for the love of god do not again confuse 'it takes time to get the best looking stuff' with 'it takes soul grinding amounts of repetition to get the best looking stuff'. It's the repetition that is the issue.
I got complete sets of all the armor I wanted in WOW, even the ones I just liked the looks of and weren't really upgrades for my character, and I never ran any dungeon anything even CLOSE to 70 times.
So when WOW can give me a suit of armor that is both a statistical and visual upgrade for, say 20-30 runs though it, what is Guild Wars excuse for making it take 70 times for something that is only a visual upgrade while simultaneously touting themselves as being the harbinger of a new breed of less grindy MMO's?
Did anybody else come? I think he was the only forumer who introduced himself.
I was there. Posted this right after:
"Finally got into the gw2 party at about 9. Arenanet are super awesome folks, and I'm totally stoked to be playing their game. They gave out some artwork with room for autographs, and my girl and I made an effort to get a signature and some chat from everyone there. Every single person was gracious, and curious how we were playing their game. Glad to be supporting them with my gem habit."
I started to introduce myself to someone I *thought* was you, but she got a scared look on her face, and I got embarrassed and ran away. (No worries, this is a typical Saturday night for me)
Aw, bummer! I was chilling up by the bar (natch) and I don't scare easy. You may have met another of our resident redheads.
So when WOW can give me a suit of armor that is both a statistical and visual upgrade for, say 20-30 runs though it, what is Guild Wars excuse for making it take 70 times for something that is only a visual upgrade while simultaneously touting themselves as being the harbinger of a new breed of less grindy MMO's?
The point is that you do not need the upgrade because it is nonstatistical. You can be optimal without grinding at level 80. (No grinding really, as long as you're not broke on karma completely you can probably afford 5-8k karma for a full set of level 80 greens)
In WoW you must have that upgrade to play.
In GW2, you do not need it, and so a prohibitively long grind to get it is acceptable because you are not denying content or progression with it.
I wish there was a way to change how my characters look without re-rolling them
Yeah, a level 15 dude isn't that hard to get back to again, but that doesn't mean I want to do this
I want to change just a few things about my asura's face that really bother me, but I don't want to start him over
also because I have a weird disorder or something where it takes me literally months to make a character I am happy with...unless I have the ability to change them on a whim. Wow's barbershop was good/bad for this, and so was CoX
Yes I too messed up on my guy and would love to buy a mirror for 100 gems or something that lets me redo his face.
So the MMO that is supposed to be different from other MMOs, really isn't. Except instead of having bosses with very different mechanics, we get the same boss 80% of the time (does an ability you must dodge every 10 seconds for 10 minutes) and an interesting fun unique fight 20% of the time.
... I'd have to look up my characters in WoW but ever since the armory started tracking dungeon runs, I don't think I've ran one dungeon for the things I wanted more than 16-20 times. No way in hell I'm doing the same dungeon 70 times for anything. That's just excessive IMO.
These are the two main problems with it. I really don't care if it's just for 'vanity' items. The point is that the MMO that's supposed to be different from all other MMO's is actually far WORSE than WOW in terms of repetitively running the same thing over and over again.
And please for the love of god do not again confuse 'it takes time to get the best looking stuff' with 'it takes soul grinding amounts of repetition to get the best looking stuff'. It's the repetition that is the issue.
I got complete sets of all the armor I wanted in WOW, even the ones I just liked the looks of and weren't really upgrades for my character, and I never ran any dungeon anything even CLOSE to 70 times.
So when WOW can give me a suit of armor that is both a statistical and visual upgrade for, say 20-30 runs though it, what is Guild Wars excuse for making it take 70 times for something that is only a visual upgrade while simultaneously touting themselves as being the harbinger of a new breed of less grindy MMO's?
Is it just a kneejerk reaction to the Karma exploits that were going on? It seems like everything that involves currency other than gold/gems has shifted into the realm of ridiculous amounts needed to exchange for items. Does the dungeon armor provide some sort of game-changing boost of stats or something to warrant the hollow difficulty of time spent to obtain them?
So the MMO that is supposed to be different from other MMOs, really isn't. Except instead of having bosses with very different mechanics, we get the same boss 80% of the time (does an ability you must dodge every 10 seconds for 10 minutes) and an interesting fun unique fight 20% of the time.
... I'd have to look up my characters in WoW but ever since the armory started tracking dungeon runs, I don't think I've ran one dungeon for the things I wanted more than 16-20 times. No way in hell I'm doing the same dungeon 70 times for anything. That's just excessive IMO.
These are the two main problems with it. I really don't care if it's just for 'vanity' items. The point is that the MMO that's supposed to be different from all other MMO's is actually far WORSE than WOW in terms of repetitively running the same thing over and over again.
And please for the love of god do not again confuse 'it takes time to get the best looking stuff' with 'it takes soul grinding amounts of repetition to get the best looking stuff'. It's the repetition that is the issue.
I got complete sets of all the armor I wanted in WOW, even the ones I just liked the looks of and weren't really upgrades for my character, and I never ran any dungeon anything even CLOSE to 70 times.
So when WOW can give me a suit of armor that is both a statistical and visual upgrade for, say 20-30 runs though it, what is Guild Wars excuse for making it take 70 times for something that is only a visual upgrade while simultaneously touting themselves as being the harbinger of a new breed of less grindy MMO's?
Is it just a kneejerk reaction to the Karma exploits that were going on? It seems like everything that involves currency other than gold/gems has shifted into the realm of ridiculous amounts needed to exchange for items. Does the dungeon armor provide some sort of game-changing boost of stats or something to warrant the hollow difficulty of time spent to obtain them?
Unless the numbers are a mistake (judging from historical GW1 stuff, it may very well not be), no, it does not, it is purely for bragging rights. If you are not the sort of person who wants this sort of stuff because or in spite of incredible effort to acquire, then you are not the intended audience for it.
Or they made a mistake on the numbers. But I've already made my prediction clear that they have the numbers where they want them (or at least, about where they want them).
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
So the MMO that is supposed to be different from other MMOs, really isn't. Except instead of having bosses with very different mechanics, we get the same boss 80% of the time (does an ability you must dodge every 10 seconds for 10 minutes) and an interesting fun unique fight 20% of the time.
... I'd have to look up my characters in WoW but ever since the armory started tracking dungeon runs, I don't think I've ran one dungeon for the things I wanted more than 16-20 times. No way in hell I'm doing the same dungeon 70 times for anything. That's just excessive IMO.
These are the two main problems with it. I really don't care if it's just for 'vanity' items. The point is that the MMO that's supposed to be different from all other MMO's is actually far WORSE than WOW in terms of repetitively running the same thing over and over again.
And please for the love of god do not again confuse 'it takes time to get the best looking stuff' with 'it takes soul grinding amounts of repetition to get the best looking stuff'. It's the repetition that is the issue.
I got complete sets of all the armor I wanted in WOW, even the ones I just liked the looks of and weren't really upgrades for my character, and I never ran any dungeon anything even CLOSE to 70 times.
So when WOW can give me a suit of armor that is both a statistical and visual upgrade for, say 20-30 runs though it, what is Guild Wars excuse for making it take 70 times for something that is only a visual upgrade while simultaneously touting themselves as being the harbinger of a new breed of less grindy MMO's?
As has been stated: This grinding isn't required to see the content in the game. This is a gigantic difference. I agree that maybe they should have some other reason to go through the dungeons but that's not really the point. You are looking at this completely backwards. Grinding to see content is what they are avoiding. If they put in a 6,000 hour optional grind for a halo above your characters head that gave no stats would that be a problem for you? If so... why? Their goal was to allow people to access all the content in the game and go everywhere without first going through a gear check by some people running the raid. They aren't removing the idea of grinding, they are removing the idea of a required grind to see content.
So when WOW can give me a suit of armor that is both a statistical and visual upgrade for, say 20-30 runs though it, what is Guild Wars excuse for making it take 70 times for something that is only a visual upgrade while simultaneously touting themselves as being the harbinger of a new breed of less grindy MMO's?
The point is that you do not need the upgrade because it is nonstatistical. You can be optimal without grinding at level 80. (No grinding really, as long as you're not broke on karma completely you can probably afford 5-8k karma for a full set of level 80 greens)
In WoW you must have that upgrade to play.
In GW2, you do not need it, and so a prohibitively long grind to get it is acceptable because you are not denying content or progression with it.
In WOW I was quite happy to go back and run dungeons for gear I no longer needed but liked the look of. If you were not a tank or dps class, you really didn't need the gear from the previous dungeon to clear the next (at least for stuff like MC -> DWL -> AQ -> Naxx)
I could do this in a reasonable amount of time.
In GW2, running dungeons purely for cosmetic upgrades apparently takes much much much longer than in WOW. Now, you can say "well GW1 was grindy as fuck so of course GW2 will be as well" and that's fine. What you can't do is square this with anet's claim that GW2 is a brand new genre redefining game that does away with all the old grind and repetition. This particular instance really stands out from and runs contrary to the rest of their design philosophy - where I agree that they have largely done a good job of removing the typical MMO annoyances and grindiness.
And again - a LONG time to get something is fine. It's a repetitive grind that I dislike. It's very strange when it took me less time to get stuff I didn't need in WOW, the epitome of grindy repetition, than it does in GW2.
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
This game has a lot more problems right now than "Oh no i need to run dungeons for pretty stuff".
I really hope a lot gets sorted out, even if I am enjoying the game immensely at the moment, I already see tons of people burn out on it and I sometimes can feel it a little too.
I need to take a break I guess.
Unpopular opinion time: @Corehealer, I think the OP could really benefit from a little tidying up. Obviously pre-purchase info doesn't need to be there. The wall of boners could be moved to the community section. Put some of the trailers in spoilers. Drop the lines about professions being confirmed. Dungeon modes could be expanded on now that the game is actually out. Most of the press stuff could go.
Might have to wait a bit. At least until @Corehealer stops playing the game long enough to do so ;-)
It's probably a good idea to put info in re other PA guilds too since it seems there's little hope of getting into [NICE].
So when WOW can give me a suit of armor that is both a statistical and visual upgrade for, say 20-30 runs though it, what is Guild Wars excuse for making it take 70 times for something that is only a visual upgrade while simultaneously touting themselves as being the harbinger of a new breed of less grindy MMO's?
The point is that you do not need the upgrade because it is nonstatistical. You can be optimal without grinding at level 80. (No grinding really, as long as you're not broke on karma completely you can probably afford 5-8k karma for a full set of level 80 greens)
In WoW you must have that upgrade to play.
In GW2, you do not need it, and so a prohibitively long grind to get it is acceptable because you are not denying content or progression with it.
In WOW I was quite happy to go back and run dungeons for gear I no longer needed but liked the look of. If you were not a tank or dps class, you really didn't need the gear from the previous dungeon to clear the next (at least for stuff like MC -> DWL -> AQ -> Naxx)
I could do this in a reasonable amount of time.
In GW2, running dungeons purely for cosmetic upgrades apparently takes much much much longer than in WOW. Now, you can say "well GW1 was grindy as fuck so of course GW2 will be as well" and that's fine. What you can't do is square this with anet's claim that GW2 is a brand new genre redefining game that does away with all the old grind and repetition. This particular instance really stands out from and runs contrary to the rest of their design philosophy - where I agree that they have largely done a good job of removing the typical MMO annoyances and grindiness.
And again - a LONG time to get something is fine. It's a repetitive grind that I dislike. It's very strange when it took me less time to get stuff I didn't need in WOW, the epitome of grindy repetition, than it does in GW2.
This worked because late in your characters life you could solo earlier dungeons. When you run a level 30 dungeon in GW2 as 80, does it let you stay 80 or are you downleveled? Vanity runs are one thing if you're by yourself. Finding a group full of other vain people to run it with you may pose a roadblock.
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I...y-...no. Nope. No. I didn't read that. Never again.
I didn't find AC hard. It's trivial if you throw boulders at everything all the time, which we did on our first time through, and didn't wipe once. It's just a bit silly that you replace all your weaponskills with boulder throwing.
I highly doubt the lovers were immune to my knockbacks because my group was spamming CC on them; I charged in to open the fight and immediately tried a knockback, which did nothing. So, I switched over to boulder throwing. Which works really well against any boss, and you should bring boulders with you from one boss to the next for maximum cheese.
But if someone *wasn't* deploying mass amounts of boulder spam I can see how they'd have trouble, and it's not just because they are dummies trying to brute force the dungeon.
Also I think the single best preparation for GW2 combat is Dark Souls, where nobody can tank all that damage so you get good at dodging. Combine that with the standard MMO raid guidelines like "don't stand in the bad stuff, don't clump up and get aoed all at once" and you're pretty much golden, I think. Also be willing to abuse the heck out of environmental weapons like boulders
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
2 things:
1) From what I've found in the dungeons I've done through level 60, the enemies between the bosses are harder than the bosses themselves. Control tools, utilizing combo fields, etc. is the way to go, and they're susceptible to all of this.
2) I haven't found a boss yet that is permanently immune to CC. They have defiance stacks, so you have to use less important CCs to drop the stacks and save your good, longer duration hard CCs for when they're susceptible, but that's just part of it, and I talked about that in the post.
Also, anybody who is running a thief in dungeons, go sword/pistol. The stun on #3 and the daze on #4 can both be used to drop defiant stacks to open bosses up for longer CCs for your group, and on the enemies between bosses #5 putting down the aoe blind field is amazingly useful. If you also run smoke screen you're just the MVP of the group. 7 second duration smoke screen that pulses blinds on enemies in it and blocks projectiles. Seriously, it's amazing.
There's actually two more parts.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Yeah, a level 15 dude isn't that hard to get back to again, but that doesn't mean I want to do this
I want to change just a few things about my asura's face that really bother me, but I don't want to start him over
I think he keeps ignoring that second part. I keep pointing it out.
There was a next part past the random guy on the ledge next to the chest after the leap of faith and random non-aggroing mobs around him?
Goddamnit
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Might have to wait a bit. At least until @Corehealer stops playing the game long enough to do so ;-)
god fucking dammit
Don't forget the Champion Ooze. Also a bullshit boss.
As far as jumping puzzles go. I choose not to do them. Problem solved.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Yea, of course there are. Just like there are people that wanted Harder raids in WoW, and will go to extremes to be the first ones to beat these super hard bosses. So people dedicated to putting together these dungeon sets are going to do what their predecessors have done before them. Band together and create guilds that run the shit out of these dungeons so people can get their sets. Or stand in Lion's Arch for an hour looking for other people just like them, or people ignorant to the fact they will get nothing tangible from the dungeon run, just to do a dungeon for the 45th time.
So the MMO that is supposed to be different from other MMOs, really isn't. Except instead of having bosses with very different mechanics, we get the same boss 80% of the time (does an ability you must dodge every 10 seconds for 10 minutes) and an interesting fun unique fight 20% of the time.
I guess that's enjoyable to some people, and some others really love the fact that they will be special little snowflakes in the gear they grinded hours in the same place for. That's not me, and it certainly can't be the 2-3million+ playerbase that make up this game.
I don't really have a problem with it, because I don't like any of the sets, and therefore won't run the dungeons 70 times. I'll do them a couple times, maybe run one specific one to try and make a legendary item as my personal grind. Maybe, you only need 250 badges from a specific dungeon depending on legendary, right? If the dungeons were fun and interesting, it'd likely be different, but even still 70 times is a lot. I'd have to look up my characters in WoW but ever since the armory started tracking dungeon runs, I don't think I've ran one dungeon for the things I wanted more than 16-20 times. No way in hell I'm doing the same dungeon 70 times for anything. That's just excessive IMO.
If I was that type of player though, considering what I've seen of the dungeons so far, I'd be pretty concerned that I'd have a hard time finding people I like well enough to do these dungeons enough times to get my armor.
Been giving me nightmares ever since.
Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4
Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles
On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts
Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Same here, I look forward to the jumping puzzles and i'm glad some of them are as challenging as they are because it makes it that much more rewarding when I complete them.
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My point is there will be enough of them. The idea is that the option is there for those that want it. There will be extremists who want every set. There will be people who will never do any runs. And there will be everything in between. Some people may want just 1 piece. Some people want 1 set. There will be people to make the runs.
What's more important here is that if you are not interested it doesn't effect you in the slightest. So it really doesn't matter.
Also paramount is taking dodge off double tap.
To me that's part of the fun of it. It's basically an action game. You don't get to know why the warrior decided to put his sword in your elementalist, you just either stun him, pull him off, knock him back, or the elementalist chills/cripples/immobilizes him and gets away. Everybody has to be on their toes at all times, just how I like it.
PvE, especially the dungeons, is basically like a primer for PvP in this game. You must learn to peel for yourself, and utilize CC.
"Finally got into the gw2 party at about 9. Arenanet are super awesome folks, and I'm totally stoked to be playing their game. They gave out some artwork with room for autographs, and my girl and I made an effort to get a signature and some chat from everyone there. Every single person was gracious, and curious how we were playing their game. Glad to be supporting them with my gem habit."
I started to introduce myself to someone I *thought* was you, but she got a scared look on her face, and I got embarrassed and ran away. (No worries, this is a typical Saturday night for me)
Aw, bummer! I was chilling up by the bar (natch) and I don't scare easy. You may have met another of our resident redheads.
Do the waypoints inside dungeons count towards map completion percentage?
These are the two main problems with it. I really don't care if it's just for 'vanity' items. The point is that the MMO that's supposed to be different from all other MMO's is actually far WORSE than WOW in terms of repetitively running the same thing over and over again.
And please for the love of god do not again confuse 'it takes time to get the best looking stuff' with 'it takes soul grinding amounts of repetition to get the best looking stuff'. It's the repetition that is the issue.
I got complete sets of all the armor I wanted in WOW, even the ones I just liked the looks of and weren't really upgrades for my character, and I never ran any dungeon anything even CLOSE to 70 times.
So when WOW can give me a suit of armor that is both a statistical and visual upgrade for, say 20-30 runs though it, what is Guild Wars excuse for making it take 70 times for something that is only a visual upgrade while simultaneously touting themselves as being the harbinger of a new breed of less grindy MMO's?
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
I need to work somewhere with more redheads
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
The point is that you do not need the upgrade because it is nonstatistical. You can be optimal without grinding at level 80. (No grinding really, as long as you're not broke on karma completely you can probably afford 5-8k karma for a full set of level 80 greens)
In WoW you must have that upgrade to play.
In GW2, you do not need it, and so a prohibitively long grind to get it is acceptable because you are not denying content or progression with it.
Yes I too messed up on my guy and would love to buy a mirror for 100 gems or something that lets me redo his face.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
Is it just a kneejerk reaction to the Karma exploits that were going on? It seems like everything that involves currency other than gold/gems has shifted into the realm of ridiculous amounts needed to exchange for items. Does the dungeon armor provide some sort of game-changing boost of stats or something to warrant the hollow difficulty of time spent to obtain them?
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Unless the numbers are a mistake (judging from historical GW1 stuff, it may very well not be), no, it does not, it is purely for bragging rights. If you are not the sort of person who wants this sort of stuff because or in spite of incredible effort to acquire, then you are not the intended audience for it.
Or they made a mistake on the numbers. But I've already made my prediction clear that they have the numbers where they want them (or at least, about where they want them).
As has been stated: This grinding isn't required to see the content in the game. This is a gigantic difference. I agree that maybe they should have some other reason to go through the dungeons but that's not really the point. You are looking at this completely backwards. Grinding to see content is what they are avoiding. If they put in a 6,000 hour optional grind for a halo above your characters head that gave no stats would that be a problem for you? If so... why? Their goal was to allow people to access all the content in the game and go everywhere without first going through a gear check by some people running the raid. They aren't removing the idea of grinding, they are removing the idea of a required grind to see content.
In WOW I was quite happy to go back and run dungeons for gear I no longer needed but liked the look of. If you were not a tank or dps class, you really didn't need the gear from the previous dungeon to clear the next (at least for stuff like MC -> DWL -> AQ -> Naxx)
I could do this in a reasonable amount of time.
In GW2, running dungeons purely for cosmetic upgrades apparently takes much much much longer than in WOW. Now, you can say "well GW1 was grindy as fuck so of course GW2 will be as well" and that's fine. What you can't do is square this with anet's claim that GW2 is a brand new genre redefining game that does away with all the old grind and repetition. This particular instance really stands out from and runs contrary to the rest of their design philosophy - where I agree that they have largely done a good job of removing the typical MMO annoyances and grindiness.
And again - a LONG time to get something is fine. It's a repetitive grind that I dislike. It's very strange when it took me less time to get stuff I didn't need in WOW, the epitome of grindy repetition, than it does in GW2.
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
I really hope a lot gets sorted out, even if I am enjoying the game immensely at the moment, I already see tons of people burn out on it and I sometimes can feel it a little too.
I need to take a break I guess.
This worked because late in your characters life you could solo earlier dungeons. When you run a level 30 dungeon in GW2 as 80, does it let you stay 80 or are you downleveled? Vanity runs are one thing if you're by yourself. Finding a group full of other vain people to run it with you may pose a roadblock.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433