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[Metroid] Thread: Other M is out! Mind your spoiler tags!

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    chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Do you think it's trademarked?Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    You know what was weird about Prime 3? I thought it was a big secret that Samus was a woman, but apparently everyone knows.

    It was mentioned as common knowledge among troops in the Federation in Prime 2.

    It's a shock to the player the first time out. In universe, it's common knowledge.

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    DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    I'm not sure I buy that.
    As a last resort, the Federation Police have decided on this strategy: to send a space hunter to penetrate the center of the fortress and destroy Mother Brain. The space hunter chosen for this mission is Samus Aran. He is the greatest of all the space hunters and has successfully completed numerous missions that everybody thought were absolutely impossible. He is a cyborg: his entire body has been surgically strengthened with robotics, giving him superpowers. Even the space pirates fear his space suit, which can absorb any enemy's power. But his true form is shrouded in mystery.

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    SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    As godawful as Other M is, the Figma Other M figurine I was gifted is rad as hell.

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    MxpnMxpn Registered User regular
    That's one awesome figurine, I'd totally own it despite hating Other M!

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    skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    Mxpn wrote: »
    That's one awesome figurine, I'd totally own it despite hating Other M!

    You can hate Other M all you want, Samus still has an awesome suit.

    http://www.toywiz.com/figmasamus.html

    Tempted to pre-order it.

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    MxpnMxpn Registered User regular
    I agree! If only I had the money :(

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    SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    It's already out (the release date there is listed June 2012), so is it just backlogged or what? Or is that a US release? The one my brother got me he imported but it's not like it needs directions or anything so no worries there.

    Also pretty sure he got it for $15 less than that.

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    skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    It's already out (the release date there is listed June 2012), so is it just backlogged or what? Or is that a US release? The one my brother got me he imported but it's not like it needs directions or anything so no worries there.

    Also pretty sure he got it for $15 less than that.

    Most likely just back ordered. Here's a site with a December release date for $10 more.

    http://simplytoyz.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=3260&language=en&currency=USD

    There are also other sites that have it for a lot more that appear to have it in stock.

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    chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Do you think it's trademarked?Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I'm not sure I buy that.
    As a last resort, the Federation Police have decided on this strategy: to send a space hunter to penetrate the center of the fortress and destroy Mother Brain. The space hunter chosen for this mission is Samus Aran. He is the greatest of all the space hunters and has successfully completed numerous missions that everybody thought were absolutely impossible. He is a cyborg: his entire body has been surgically strengthened with robotics, giving him superpowers. Even the space pirates fear his space suit, which can absorb any enemy's power. But his true form is shrouded in mystery.

    Metroid 1 manual. Obsolete data, and questionable from the start.

    Meanwhile, Metroid Prime 2 has the following logs:

    "Last night at chow, Angseth starts talking about some bounty hunter and how she blew up a planet full of Space Pirates. I told her I didn't believe in fairy tales like that, and she took it personal. I just find it hard to believe that one person took out an entire Space Pirate base, that's all. But if she wants to believe in this Samus, or Bigfoot, or Santa Claus, she can."
    -PFC I. Crany

    "This is ridiculous. I can outshoot half the men here, and I'm stuck on monitor duty. I didn't join up to stare at a holoscreen! This wouldn't happen to Samus Aran... She'd be out there taking care of business, not pushing buttons and sending reports."
    -SPC M. Angseth.

    Joe and Jane Grunt may not know much about Samus, but the basics are common knowledge. Now, believing them, that's something different.

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    LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    That figure looks great and I want it, but I prefer the Prime model a bit more.

    Here's a review, for anyone interested:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyeEV0sIPQ8

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    DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Joe and Jane Grunt may not know much about Samus, but the basics are common knowledge. Now, believing them, that's something different.

    Ah! I stand corrected.

    And yeah, I think the Prime design(s) were definitely better than Other M. The suit's paneling in Other M seemed random and painted on (especially the shoulders), but even as far back as Super Metroid, they looked like actual components, like the armor could be disassembled in logical places.

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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Mxpn wrote: »
    Didn't Samus say something about never having another commanding officer aside from Adam in Other M? She had Admiral Dane in Prime 3 so I guess it's not canon. I could be wrong though, my memory is hazy having played the Prime series long ago.

    She's still acting pretty independently. She has missions and gets advice and occasionally backup, but how to accomplish her tasks is left entirely up to her discretion.

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    I would much rather consider Other M not canon than consider Prime not canon.

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    DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Enlong wrote: »
    I would much rather consider Other M not canon than consider Prime not canon.

    I think that's how most people feel.

    Really, it's either Other M is canon or five other games are canon, because Other M contradicts all the Prime games, tries to retcon bits of Super Metroid, and absolutely murders everything Fusion did.

    So yeah, between five mostly good games and one bad game, I know which is going out the airlock, here.

    Drascin on
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    LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    I should hope he's not saying it isn't canon; that would be a tremendous slap to the face of Retro.

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    King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Yeah no Nintendo is not going to say the games of a developer they trusted to relaunch two franchises aren't canon.

    I think the bigger issue is Prime proved Metroid is primarily an western series now. Nintendo.cannot get Japan to bite on it. I guess that would tick off a guy who has worked on every 2D entry of the series.

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    BigJoeMBigJoeM Registered User regular
    Metroid was always a series that was more beloved in the west like Resident Evil and Metal Gear.

    That's going to cause problems because Sakamoto has been director or producer on every game in the series aside from the Prime spinoffs and with the exception of Super Metroid the Prime games are infinitely more popular.

    He tried to take the series in a different direction and it didn't work so now a large portion of gamers who were introduced to Metroid through Prime want him taken off of his series.

    I don't think that should happen.

    Sakamoto tried to take the series in a new direction and it didn't work so he should try something else on the next one.








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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Yeah no Nintendo is not going to say the games of a developer they trusted to relaunch two franchises aren't canon.

    Especially since the game made by the guy claiming it's not canon was a massive sales disappointment.

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    Metroid was always a series that was more beloved in the west like Resident Evil and Metal Gear.

    That's going to cause problems because Sakamoto has been director or producer on every game in the series aside from the Prime spinoffs and with the exception of Super Metroid the Prime games are infinitely more popular.

    He tried to take the series in a different direction and it didn't work so now a large portion of gamers who were introduced to Metroid through Prime want him taken off of his series.

    I don't think that should happen.

    Sakamoto tried to take the series in a new direction and it didn't work so he should try something else on the next one.

    As a Metroid fan since the beginning, he should be taken off the series. I don't care if it's "his" anymore. After the total abortion that was Other M, he should not be working on any more Metroid games.

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    DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    Metroid was always a series that was more beloved in the west like Resident Evil and Metal Gear.

    That's going to cause problems because Sakamoto has been director or producer on every game in the series aside from the Prime spinoffs and with the exception of Super Metroid the Prime games are infinitely more popular.

    He tried to take the series in a different direction and it didn't work so now a large portion of gamers who were introduced to Metroid through Prime want him taken off of his series.

    I don't think that should happen.

    Sakamoto tried to take the series in a new direction and it didn't work so he should try something else on the next one.

    The thing is that I honestly think this man seriously needs some editorial oversight. Other M reads like bad fanfiction (and Adam's the self-insert, in case it wasn't obvious). In most of the previous ones he was working closely with the rest of the team that helped create Metroid, people who had as much clout as him, so they could bounce ideas off each other - but here, Nintendo gave him almost sole creative control, and you can see how that went.

    Basically, in my mind Sakamoto is George Lucas without the beard.

    Drascin on
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    King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Prime took the series in new directions. I didn't care for the last one but they weren't afraid to try new stuff.
    Other M had no idea what it wanted to be. I liked the combat and little else. Sakamoto screwed up and its clear he should not have had as much input as he did. Even the damn translators got restrictions from him.

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    agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    Sakamoto's story is great when he takes a less is more approach, see Metroid 2, Super Metroid, and Zero Mission.

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    BigJoeMBigJoeM Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    Metroid was always a series that was more beloved in the west like Resident Evil and Metal Gear.

    That's going to cause problems because Sakamoto has been director or producer on every game in the series aside from the Prime spinoffs and with the exception of Super Metroid the Prime games are infinitely more popular.

    He tried to take the series in a different direction and it didn't work so now a large portion of gamers who were introduced to Metroid through Prime want him taken off of his series.

    I don't think that should happen.

    Sakamoto tried to take the series in a new direction and it didn't work so he should try something else on the next one.

    As a Metroid fan since the beginning, he should be taken off the series. I don't care if it's "his" anymore. After the total abortion that was Other M, he should not be working on any more Metroid games.

    Not going to happen, this would be the equivalent of window-seating Miyamoto after Wii Music bombed.

    The Metroid fields will lie fallow until gamers get over it, demanding that Sakamoto be removed from the series will just make it take longer.

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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    Metroid was always a series that was more beloved in the west like Resident Evil and Metal Gear.

    That's going to cause problems because Sakamoto has been director or producer on every game in the series aside from the Prime spinoffs and with the exception of Super Metroid the Prime games are infinitely more popular.

    He tried to take the series in a different direction and it didn't work so now a large portion of gamers who were introduced to Metroid through Prime want him taken off of his series.

    I don't think that should happen.

    Sakamoto tried to take the series in a new direction and it didn't work so he should try something else on the next one.

    As a Metroid fan since the beginning, he should be taken off the series. I don't care if it's "his" anymore. After the total abortion that was Other M, he should not be working on any more Metroid games.

    Not going to happen, this would be the equivalent of window-seating Miyamoto after Wii Music bombed.

    The Metroid fields will lie fallow until gamers get over it, demanding that Sakamoto be removed from the series will just make it take longer.

    Considering how badly Other M sold, especially in Japan, it's going to happen. Not to mention all the middling reviews and controversy. Nintendo's not going to rush back to that poisoned well. They'll have Sakamoto do something else.

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    SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    I don't think Sakamoto was on Metroid 2, but either way I don't care if he stays so long as his creative control is decimated. His ideas were awful, and not just 'I made a mistake' awful but embarrassingly awful. Put some checks on that boy.
    That figure looks great and I want it, but I prefer the Prime model a bit more.

    Yeah, I really love Prime's design, especially the huge shoulders. It'd be rad if Figma made a version of that someday, maybe if they return closer to that style.

    s7Imn5J.png
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    AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I say hand the series off to someone else entirely. As much as I would like to see Retro at the wheel again, they deserve to work on something else, an original IP from them would be swell. I definitely don't want the Other M fuckers touching Metroid again.

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    skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    Intelligent Systems needs to make another Metroid game.

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I'd like to see a developer with some experience try to bring back the Hunters off-shoot, only this time on the Wii U with some better multiplayer backbone.

    It had potential.

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    skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    I'd like to see a developer with some experience try to bring back the Hunters off-shoot, only this time on the Wii U with some better multiplayer backbone.

    It had potential.

    Even though they've been doing mostly handheld games lately, I could totally see NST doing another Hunters game on Wii U.

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    WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    BigJoeM wrote: »
    Metroid was always a series that was more beloved in the west like Resident Evil and Metal Gear.

    That's going to cause problems because Sakamoto has been director or producer on every game in the series aside from the Prime spinoffs and with the exception of Super Metroid the Prime games are infinitely more popular.

    He tried to take the series in a different direction and it didn't work so now a large portion of gamers who were introduced to Metroid through Prime want him taken off of his series.

    I don't think that should happen.

    Sakamoto tried to take the series in a new direction and it didn't work so he should try something else on the next one.

    As a Metroid fan since the beginning, he should be taken off the series. I don't care if it's "his" anymore. After the total abortion that was Other M, he should not be working on any more Metroid games.

    Not going to happen, this would be the equivalent of window-seating Miyamoto after Wii Music bombed.

    The Metroid fields will lie fallow until gamers get over it, demanding that Sakamoto be removed from the series will just make it take longer.
    I'm not sure that's true.

    For one thing, the Metroid series through Super was co-created by both Yoshio Sakamoto and Gunpei Yokoi (except Metroid 2, which Sakamoto had no involvement in...kind of hilarious given how hard he tried to co-opt its plot for Other M). I don't believe Sakamoto has ever had creative control over anything particularly well-received since Yokoi died. So it's entirely plausible that Sakamoto never had any talent.

    Second, Sakamoto is literally on the record as saying that he never cared about the story before Other M.
    Depicting the story of Samus Aran in this game was one of the most important game design concepts from the very beginning because before Other M I did not think about what kind of person Samus Aran was and how she thinks and her personality. We did not do that by writing or by letting her speak a lot.

    Plus because of the existence of the Metroid Prime series many people might have different ideas about what kind of person Samus Aran was. That was a concern for me because Metroid has already become a solid franchise and probably in the future as well we will be willing to make the sequels.
    So even if he did make important contributions to the series in some form or another, it wasn't in any field that uniquely qualified him for taking total control of the plot. At this point anyone can plainly see that Retro learned more about how to successfully expand the setting from playing the old games than Sakamoto did from working on them. (As an aside, look at the megalomania inherent in this quote: he never planned out anything about the character, and yet is offended that Retro deviated from the characterization that he...never came up with until after the fact. He had literally no reasonable incentive to throw out the stuff from the Prime series rather than continuing to build on it, but he did it anyway because he couldn't stand the idea of not being in complete control of everything.)

    Lastly, from what I understand, half of the reason the series was put back into his hands was because the Prime series had a lukewarm reception in Japan and Nintendo was hoping to change that, but Other M didn't sell any better in Japan and it sold massively worse in the West.

    I can't see any compelling reason not to put Sakamoto into the back seat again.

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    SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    It's not true that he never planned anything about the character: once long ago he said he was the only person who knew where her beauty mark was, and then he revealed it in Other M, right on her face. So while he never spared a thought about her character or who this hero was he did think about irrelevant cosmetics. Yay.

    s7Imn5J.png
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    Shady3011Shady3011 Registered User regular
    I say hand the series off to someone else entirely. As much as I would like to see Retro at the wheel again, they deserve to work on something else, an original IP from them would be swell. I definitely don't want the Other M fuckers touching Metroid again.

    I don't think that's fair to those dudes. They had to comply with Sakamoto's direction. They really had no say in the way the game was being developed. It is a project that is the amalgamation of one utterly delusional man's ideas.

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    LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    I'd be willing to give Sakamoto another shot; he seems to experiment a bit with what he feels is needed at the time. I'm guessing that since Nintendo apparently wanted a stronger appeal to the Japanese, that's what he tried to do.

    This post I made elsewhere in the forums tells a lot. It comes from an old interview being done around the time of Zero Mission, and he speaks about the different styles that and Fusion took due to what he was trying to do:
    He bounces back and forth, depending on what he thinks an entry needs. Hence the change from Fusion to Zero Mission to Other M. I'll have to dig for the interview, but I have a feeling that if he did do another, it would be closer to the Metroid norm.

    Yeah, here we go (spoiled for length):
    During the development of Metroid Fusion, I took into consideration the fact that we’d have players who would be picking up a Metroid title for the first time and tried to make the game easy for them. Nine years had passed since the release of its predecessor, Super Metroid on the SNES, and I figured the type of gameplay in Metroid (wandering around, lost, while searching for secret passages) would be pretty rough on beginners. That’s why I instead chose to emphasize the dramatic aspects and use the game’s story to motivate people to keep playing. I also adjusted the degree of difficulty by restricting the players’ movements, thereby ensuring the game wouldn’t get too hard. In contrast, Metroid: Zero Mission, which we’re currently developing, is a remake based on the original Metroid, so it brings the series’ original style of gameplay closer to the surface.

    I experimented with putting some monologues by Samus in Metroid: Fusion in order to put some importance on the drama, but I still don’t know whether it’s right to be taking the series in that direction. I think the true fun of Metroid lies in spending time searching for secret passages and getting yourself hopelessly lost. That’s why I started out by choosing to emphasize the story in Fusion, and now I’m showcasing Metroid’s roots in Zero Mission. If I don’t continue releasing games that feature Metroid’s origins and games that feature Metroid’s story, I won’t get any ideas about where to go next.

    Even while we were making of Super Metroid for the SNES, I stuck stubbornly to my decision that there wouldn’t be any dialogue, no matter what. I have to stick to my guns for Zero Mission, as well. It’s too easy to have players wandering around a huge map, indifferent to their surroundings. I have to find a way to spice things up a bit and stimulate their brains. If all we do is extract the essence of Metroid over and over again, every game we release will turn out exactly the same. I try to challenge myself by focusing on developing a new gameplay mechanism every time in order to avoid complaints like that.

    I've also seen it suggested that it's the other developers at Nintendo who have helped keep him in check before, and with Other M completely outsourced to other companies...

    Really, in a way, I have to hand it to Sakamoto. Yes, he screwed up-- royally. But at least he's not afraid to try new things, nor is he afraid to go back to what works when need be. With stuff like New Super Mario Bros. and other games playing it too "safe" for some peoples' tastes, I think it might be good to have someone like this there.

    Mind, I reserve the right to change my mind if he tries to continue pushing the Other M style after this, but something tells me he won't...

    At the same time, I think his stance on Samus as a bounty hunter sucks. No one is perfect.

    ...that said, his iron fist over the American translation, voice acting, etc. was going overboard. Who knows? NoA might have been able to salvage it somehow...

    LBD_Nytetrayn on
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    DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    Not Metroid related, but I'd love to see a redesigned suit with something like http://aimmort.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d5f7z4m as the foundation.

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Yeah, but the way Sakamoto did Other M, I dunno. Some stuff seemed to contradict Fusion, of all things. For example, Adam's personality was more in line with the AI before it remembered who it used to be.

    And I may be biased, but I'd take Admiral Dain any day.

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    ArteenArteen Adept ValeRegistered User regular
    Sakamoto took "credit" for a lot of the biggest problems in Other M. Not just story and voice acting, but demanding the game be wiimote-only instead of wiimote+nunchuck. Who knows what else was his call. Other M was mediocre at the best of times, but I wouldn't mind another stab at that sort of gameplay.

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    chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Do you think it's trademarked?Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Enlong wrote: »
    Yeah, but the way Sakamoto did Other M, I dunno. Some stuff seemed to contradict Fusion, of all things. For example, Adam's personality was more in line with the AI before it remembered who it used to be.

    And I may be biased, but I'd take Admiral Dain any day.

    That's FLEET Admiral Castor Dane to you.

    It's a whole star better than regular admiral or general.

    Highest space rank in the whole space navy. He earned it by killing space pirates and authorizing ethically dubious and dangerous space weapon projects that DON'T go horribly wrong. (one of the most difficult feats in all of videogames.)

    Meanwhile, Adam is just a regular general. At most. THEN he got his ass drilled back down to Commander.

    That is a massive demotion. I hate to think how bad he screwed up to have that happen to him.

    chiasaur11 on
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    agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    Yeah, but the way Sakamoto did Other M, I dunno. Some stuff seemed to contradict Fusion, of all things. For example, Adam's personality was more in line with the AI before it remembered who it used to be.

    And I may be biased, but I'd take Admiral Dain any day.

    That's FLEET Admiral Castor Dane to you.

    It's a whole star better than regular admiral or general.

    Highest space rank in the whole space navy. He earned it by killing space pirates and authorizing ethically dubious and dangerous space weapon projects that DON'T go horribly wrong. (one of the most difficult feats in all of videogames.)

    Meanwhile, Adam is just a regular general. At most. THEN he got his ass drilled back down to Commander.

    That is a massive demotion. I hate to think how bad he screwed up to have that happen to him.

    The greatest military mind

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    MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    Mxpn wrote: »
    Didn't Samus say something about never having another commanding officer aside from Adam in Other M? She had Admiral Dane in Prime 3 so I guess it's not canon. I could be wrong though, my memory is hazy having played the Prime series long ago.

    She's still acting pretty independently. She has missions and gets advice and occasionally backup, but how to accomplish her tasks is left entirely up to her discretion.

    Yeah, pretty much this. It was absolutely apparent that she was hired on as a mercenary to fulfil a contract. Just like in Prime 2.

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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    So I guess one desirable option is to grab Sakamoto by the shoulders and scream at him, "STOP CARING! OR STOP ACTING LIKE YOU CARE! YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DESK THEN!"

    One trouble might be, given how much Super Metroid and the like are revered, whoever came never might be a little wary of departing too far and inadvertently make some of the same mistakes.

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