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Long time reader, new cartoon: It's an Old World

YancyYancy Registered User
edited July 2007 in Artist's Corner
Looking for constructive abuse. Emphasis on constructive. But plain abuse is acceptable. I would upload the comic, but it's already online, so here's the link.

Tell me what you think.

"Don't clap too loudly, it's an old world."
Yancy on

Posts

  • TonkkaTonkka Some one in the club tonight Has stolen my ideas.Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Uh oh.

    Tonkka on
    Steam: evilumpire Battle.net: T0NKKA#1588 PS4: T_0_N_N_K_A Twitter Art blog/Portfolio! Twitch?! HEY SATAN
  • Highlander_77Highlander_77 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    If you're really a long-time reader, one would think you would know better than to make a new thread with nothing but a link to your site...

    Highlander_77 on
    El_Pollo_Diablo.jpg"Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!"
  • YancyYancy Registered User
    edited July 2007
    oh christ... Okay, I've been a long time reader of P.A. Not the forum.

    It's always some nitty gritty shit, isn't it? Every forum has different rules, right? So what do I have to do to get some feedback?

    Yancy on
    "Don't clap too loudly, it's an old world."
  • teamquigganteamquiggan Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Post up some comics!

    There are soo many people who just login and throw up their page hoping that we will go there and never return, that its annoying even when someone is looking for a legit critique.

    teamquiggan on
  • YancyYancy Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Okay, so I got off to a bad start. Let's not let this get between us and our new friendship.

    The deal is I don't know how to draw, but I can passably model in 3D, and I like the look of these cheesy, like mid 90's, (think X2: The Threat) models... anyway, let me know what you think.

    ep_1_w.jpg

    Yancy on
    "Don't clap too loudly, it's an old world."
  • SheriSheri Resident Fluffer My Living RoomRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Honestly, I wouldn't call that 3D 'passable.'

    Sheri on
  • YancyYancy Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Well...that's kind of part of the point...
    And what about the writing? There are two aspects to any comic anyway...

    Yancy on
    "Don't clap too loudly, it's an old world."
  • DMACDMAC Moderator mod
    edited July 2007
    Yancy wrote: »
    nitty gritty shit

    DMAC on
  • Highlander_77Highlander_77 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm not really sure what you're looking for here. The 3D modelling just doesn't look very good...and I'm not a big fan of that style of "artwork" anyway (which is to say, I hate it with a passion), so I don't know how much of a useful critique I could offer there. I suppose if your goal is to render realistic looking people, then you first need to learn what people look like. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way...I mean, we all "know" what people look like...but just like learning to draw people, you need to have at least a basic grasp of anatomy and such if you want to render decent looking people. In fact, to be honest, I'm not sure that it's possible to create decent looking images of people using any media without first having the ability to draw them.


    As for the writing...well, this isn't really the place for a writing critique, but that one page by itself doesn't really give us much to go by. Is it a stand-alone comic strip? Or is it part of something larger? If it's a single self-contained strip....well, the first four panels are a long way to go to get to that punch line at the end. As for the dialogue, I didn't find it particularly funny, but it wasn't terrible either.

    One problem with the layout, in the 5th panel, it isn't clear at all that the text balloons are meant to be read in the order that they are. The first time I read it, I read all the balloons at the top of the panel, then went down and read the balloons going down the left side of the panel. I would expect a lot of other people would do the same thing. It wasn't until comparing the dialogue in the two sets of balloons that I realized the two characters were going back and forth, and that the order of the dialogue went from the first balloon on top to the first balloon on the left, then to the second one on top then to the second one on the left, etc. A comic shouldn't force the reader to do extra work to figure out what's going on.

    Highlander_77 on
    El_Pollo_Diablo.jpg"Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!"
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    You have a lot you need to work on. The first is to carefully think through your use of 3D for your comics. Unless you're really, really good at doing cartoon-style emoting and facial expressions with your modeling, you're always going to end up with a flat, lifeless comic.

    Right now it just looks plain bad. Your models are misshapen, their poses are boring, and the environments are just ugly. Again, you can get away with some pretty spartan environments in 2D cartooning, but in 3D it takes far more work to achieve the same effect.

    If you want to stick with your modeling I'd suggest moving away from a comic and instead work on improving your modeling skills by doing studies of realistic humans, using photo-references to tweak your anatomy until you get a better feel for it.

    As for the writing, it's awkward, long winded, and not very funny. You used four panels to lead up to a non-sequitir iPhone joke in the last two panels. You have a character who's a robot and of couse speaks like a sassy butler. The communicator you mention in the first half of the strip is left dangling. The banter between the two characters feels forced, especially the way you lead into the strip with "Stupid fucking subspace communicator" - that's a line that does indicate your main character is frustrated, but it's not a line that a frustrated person would ever say.

    Brolo on
  • NakedElfNakedElf Registered User
    edited July 2007
    If you're going to go with the digital modeling approach, be aware that you'll meet a lot of the same opposition as 'fury' artists--people will automatically refuse to read it because they thin it's 'ugly'. Sure, Pixar can do computer animation and it looks good, but we ain't Pixar. Which means you're going to have to work hard to make the art overcome the limitations of the genre. For example, you may have better luck with characters who *aren't* human (such as robots). Additionally, you may want to pay attention to and play around with the layouts, though your sample comic here doesn't have much to it which would warrant futzing with that other than an issue with your gutters.

    You have a nice background in the first couple of panels, but apparently your spaceship was designed by the butt-ugly steel co., as was your robot. If you're going to do the comic in black and white, just make it black and white. But don't do it half in color and then have half the panel randomly all grays. Machines (like the spaceship and the robot) are where computer modeling can really shine, but instead you've just left them completely bland. At least give them some color. The final panel is also bad--that doesn't even look like a brain. (it does sort of look like a butt, though.)

    I had difficulty figuring out in which order the panels should be read--top to bottom first, or left to right. This was compounded by the fact that the last two panels didn't seem to follow from the first four, so I got confused and thought maybe I'd read it wrong... Varying your gutter width can help with that--narrower gutters where I'm supposed to read across first, and wider gutters where I'm supposed to read across second can help the reader figure out the flow if it isn't immediately obvious.

    Honestly, I think the comic would be better *without* the last two panels. The joke is very weak, and has nothing to do with the rest of the comic.

    NakedElf on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited July 2007
    Goddammit I had a really long post about expressions and visual appeal written out but I closed the wrong tab. :? I'll try to summarize:

    1. Why is the bridge of a spaceship designed to look like the computer room of a smallish public library? And why is it 10 feet wide, square, and has windows on both sides, despite being shown as being located in a convex groove from the exterior shots? And why isn't there a door connecting it to the rest of the ship?

    2. Expressions. You need them. Moving a head or an elbow is not an expression. The audience needs to be able to tell someone is mad, or sad, or whatever, from the art. If you need to read the dialogue to figure these things out, then the visuals have failed and you'd be better off without them if that is the case. Having expresionless characters in a comic is like shooting a movie where every character is played in a Ben Stein-style deadpan. (Except that actually might be funny, so maybe the analogy is not quite apt.)

    If you were mad at something, you would not sit stock still with your palms flat on your desk top (Unless you have that Steven Hawking disease, I guess). Go ahead and act your strip out- what do you do when you get mad at your computer for fucking up? Do you hunch over, slam your fists on the desk? Do you get up an pace around in frustration? Give up and cover your face in your hands? You'd do something- your characters should do something too.

    And yes, good expressions in 3d: hard. Audience: doesn't care. The strip either works or doesn't, and right now, it doesn't. There's nothing to convey these are living characters rather than dead, static models, and that being the case completely undermines any effectiveness the strip might otherwise have.

    3. Visual design. I don't buy the 'it's supposed to look cheesy' argument for one second, unless by that you mean, "I want it to look like ReBoot, only worse". (I am not a fan of the hideously ugly ReBoot).

    I am not going to say you need all sorts of whiz-bang shit either, but I would argue that you should rethink your design scheme for visual appeal. Look at something like Pixar's Knick Knack, or this film: http://www.daniel3d.com/pepeland/misc/isaak/Batman_Chapter_01_Help_Me.mov

    Technically? They are not particularly spectacular; no textures, very simple character designs, not a whole lot of mystery as to what they actually did on the technical side. Artistically, though, they are very sophisticated: well-designed compositions, expressive color schemes, models designed for acting, lighting for mood, etc.

    What you've got shows either a lack of knowledge or lack of attention to these things: I don't get a sense of who these characters are by looking at them, either in model design or acting. I don't get a sense of what overall tone you are going for through the set design or lighting, unless, like I mentioned before, 'bland library" is what you're going for. Otherwise, the tone is what? Generally fun and lighthearted? Star Trek parody? Firefly-type serious visuals + some humor? Dilbert in Space, what? Set a direction and design for it.

    Your compositions don't really add much either- sure, the camera moves from panel to panel, but nothing about the movement serves to reinforce the action of the panel- instead, we get 3 statically composed mid shots. If all the camera movement says is "Look I am moving the camera", it's pointless to do so. Make sure you have a reason- a good reason- for every decision you make in the production; don't just plow ahead aimlessly and hope for the best.




    Gah, I hope that wasn't too discouraging, but there's no getting around that there's work to be done here.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I say this from the bottom of my heart: I hate irrelevant social critique in comics.

    MagicToaster on
  • YancyYancy Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Thanks guys, that was rough. I appreciate it though. I'm going to rethink a few things and get back to you in a couple weeks.

    Yancy on
    "Don't clap too loudly, it's an old world."
  • hijinksensuehijinksensue Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Yancy wrote: »
    Thanks guys, that was rough. I appreciate it though. I'm going to rethink a few things and get back to you in a couple weeks.
    Wow. Way to take a punch. Seriously. If you listen to some of the crits and make some changes you might find your next post goes over much better.

    My two cents:

    1) The art leaves a lot to be desired. No expressions on the faces, etc.
    2) I see where you want to go with the joke, but you take the long way around to get us there. Redo this comic in 3 panels. End it with the Jobs-brain asking to be killed. The response from the Apple-ites or whatever ruins it.

    Dont get discouraged and try again.

    hijinksensue on
    HijiNKS Ensue
    geek comic
    www.hijinksensue.com

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • YancyYancy Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Well, I mean, honestly, now I kind of know what those morons on American Idol feel like. All their friends tell them they're good singers, but it's plain not true. Once you get an unbiased critique, it does become evident what you need to work on.

    I couldn't see it before, but there it is, plain as day, now.

    Yancy on
    "Don't clap too loudly, it's an old world."
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