Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Angel

Crazy ArtistCrazy Artist Registered User
edited July 2007 in Artist's Corner
OK so this is the piece I want a critique on. I hand drew this a while ago, and then scanned and digitally traced it on my Wacom. It's not the best, but I'm trying to improve. So please let me know what you think.
angelpq0.jpg


Also, if you want to see some of my other art (shameless plug, I know...but I do want critique on my other work too) go to 1337art.blogspot.com

Crazy Artist on

Posts

  • RandomActionRandomAction Registered User
    edited July 2007
    one of the birds seems to be flying upside down was that intentional?

    RandomAction on
    [SIGPIC]http://random2action.com[/SIGPIC]
  • Crazy ArtistCrazy Artist Registered User
    edited July 2007
    i just didn't want to have them all be little M's. It's just the wings on the downstroke.

    Crazy Artist on
  • Highlander_77Highlander_77 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Well, it looks like you're trying to draw in a stylized, anime/mange sort of style (I'm basing this more on the picture on the site you mentioned, not just the one you posted)...but you don't have a solid foundation in the very basics of the structure and anatomy of the human figure. So that's the first place to start. Learn how to draw more or less realistic looking people and get the basics down before you try to get into heavily stylized stuff.

    Many people on this forum will tell you to "draw from life'. That's always good advice, so I'll give it here. Really take a good look at what people and objects really look like. Then draw them that way. Find some good books on anatomy for artists and study them. You do appear to have some talent when it comes to drawing, but there's a lot of room for improvement. The most important thing to do, of course, is to keep drawing. Practice is the only way to really improve.

    Highlander_77 on
    El_Pollo_Diablo.jpg"Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!"
  • NakedElfNakedElf Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Is there a particular reason you're using a Wacom instead of ink? Obviously a Wacom can be a good tool, but I'm unconvinced that it's the particular tool you need to be using. I say this because your lines are really shaky, and I'd wager that's at least partially an effect of the Wacom. I'd say practice inking with regular old fashioned pens until you can draw a non-wiggly line.

    The fact that you outlined the figure but didn't outline the background makes it look funny.

    Your wings aren't too bad, but the 'bone' at the top is more what you'd see in a bat wing than a bird wing. From a physical standpoint, the inner part of the wings is curving down while the outer part is curving up, which makes them look like they wouldn't meet up...

    Try looking at some actual bird wings: http://www.paulnoll.com/Oregon/Birds/ID-wing-Duck-2.jpg

    The face is good, so is the sword in his right hand. The sword in his left hand looks like it was made out of cheap plastic and has slightly melted. Obviously there's not much to say in the anatomy department, but I have no idea what's keeping that belt up since he has no hips, and his wrists are, frankly, worrying me. I mean he looks like he's got a serious anorexia problem. The hands are pretty good, though.

    NakedElf on
  • Crazy ArtistCrazy Artist Registered User
    edited July 2007
    THanks for the comments guys. The sword in the left hand...I hate it. I think I was trying to draw a scimitar (along the lines of this...and I just...failed...Anyway, I would have to agree, my main problem is that I can't draw from life. I'm gonna work on that for sure.

    Crazy Artist on
  • NakedElfNakedElf Registered User
    edited July 2007
    THanks for the comments guys. The sword in the left hand...I hate it. I think I was trying to draw a scimitar (along the lines of this...and I just...failed...Anyway, I would have to agree, my main problem is that I can't draw from life. I'm gonna work on that for sure.

    Luckily, there aren't too many angels in real life, so that shouldn't be too much of your problem :P

    For a scimitar, remember that the handle should still be straight, not curved. No one wants to hold a curvy handle. The back of the blade, by contrast, should curve, matching the front of it. Until you get good at it, just keep around pictures of whatever you're trying to draw (I'm assuming it's not practical to go out and get real scimitars), and refer to them often. And then just practice practice practice.

    NakedElf on
  • Crazy ArtistCrazy Artist Registered User
    edited July 2007
    So I took your guys advice and made some modifications. I filled him out a little (he was seriously anorexic :shock: ) and changed the wings. The sword in the left hand still sucks, but I tried to make it look a little better (with little success). Anyway, let me know what you think.
    angelei6.jpg

    Crazy Artist on
  • NakedElfNakedElf Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Frankly, he looks like a chick with boobs now.

    The wings are better.

    NakedElf on
  • ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Photoshop is not helping you right now. You simply are not at a level where you can effectively juggle all of the elements you're trying to squeeze into this picture. You're trying to fire on all six cylinders but your technical abilities are not refined enough to execute a "cool" picture like this yet.

    The composition is very stale and part of his wing and sword are cropped off for no good reason. The line-art is wobbly, the cloth is all made-up. You gave it a shot, but the coloring and rendering on this just make the whole thing flat as a board (Please don't use gradients unless you really, really know what you're doing.).

    Basically, you need to put the wacom away for a while and get out the sketchpad and a pencil if you want to eventually be able to successfully do this type of art.

    Scosglen on
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Okay, the first rule when you're going to draw anyone covered in a robe or a dress or something that covers up their entire body:

    Draw them naked first.

    You don't have to do it directly on the sheet of paper you intend on being your good copy of the sketch, but at the very least do a practise of a person in the same pose to get a feel for where their anatomy should be. Really, to get it right you want to do LOTS of poses of the person, from LOTS of different angles before you take things any further. The more you do the better grasp you're going to have of the pose and the anatomy, and how it will all work together without you having to resort to guess work, which is a lot of what I'm seeing now.

    There's been a few mentions of the problems with the wings and I have to say I agree, even with the revisions. Now, angel wings on a human will never really make sense, since the human chest doesn't have muscles in the right spot to "flap" them. But most artists generally follow bird wings, meaning that the wing will protrude from around the shoulder blades as thin stems and then swell into their full shape.

    Wings are annoying as hell to draw, since if you observe them carefully they're not really a lump of flesh like an arm or torso would be, instead they're actually made up of tiny feathers. This can be really horrible to attempt to draw since there's going to be hundreds of feathers, and drawing/inking all of them in detal is not something that's going to work.

    Finally with the figure, drawing robes, in particular cloth robes, that are supposed to be folded and creased and wrinkly is something that's incredibly difficult to do for even professional artists if they don't have references to work from. So the easiest way to make your figure look better is naturally to get some references of robes! Right now the robes you have lack any real form, and you've tried to cover for this by adding some wavy lines to indicate creases, but since there's no change in the shading or tone of the robe it looks totally flat. See how his robes drape, like a curtain? See how dark the shadows get in between the folds? See how the tone and shade changes to indicate the robe compressing and flattening where it rests against the ground? That's all detail you can work into your picture by using photo references.

    For right now... I say get some pencils and try re-drawing this guy in a different pose from a different, more dynamic angle, and post some WIPs as you go along. If you're giving it an honest effort you'll be bound to show a lot of improvement.

    Brolo on
  • rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Well, I don't think drapery should be your biggest concern right now, but when you get there I thought maybe this might help you. I looked for a better version of this online but I didnt find one. So I drew up a quick overview of the basics of the seven folds. You will probably want to pick up this book if you get the chance: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0486418022

    Anyways, here is a quick and dirty sketch of the seven folds:
    sevenfolds.jpg

    And here is a link to a drapery tutorial by a former instructor at my school:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14739

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • Crazy ArtistCrazy Artist Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Thanks a ton for the seven folds thing, and the tutorial, Cakemikz, those are gonna be really helpful. Rolo and Scosglen, ty for your advice too, I applied it in this pic. I'm trying to get a hang of proportions. My characters are usually way too skinny, have extremley long chests and arms, and too big of heads. So I tried to do this one better.

    dominiquerp0.jpg

    Crazy Artist on
  • GrifterGrifter BermudaModerator mod
    edited July 2007
    I think I only have one piece of advice for you right now. That is for you to draw from reference. You're trying to make everything up right now and it's not working for you one bit. Your wings look ridiculous. Your robe looks like it's made out of wire and the swords...I just don't know. You need to spend some time actually studying wings so you have an idea of how they are structured. They are more than just some bones and a bunch of feathers. You need to think more about how a robe would actually drape from a man. You need to get some photographic or life reference for things so that you're not just trying to draw what you think things should look like. Once you have a good understanding of how something should look realistically you should be able to then apply a stylized approach to your art. Generally, some sort of style will come along with the realistic work that you do anyway. I don't think that anyone is going to be able to help you too much more until you start working with this in mind.

    Grifter on
  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Dont have black lines on the "bend" points on the swords, or at the least have very thin ones.

    What i do before every figure now is a very light stickman where the figure with be with good proportions and the like. You can then just draw over it.

    It has helped me alot.

    The Black Hunter on
  • NakedElfNakedElf Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Definitely a massive improvement.

    I note that you're still drawing that 'bone' really distinctly at the top of your wings. Bird wings don't have visible bones like that (because the area is generally covered in feathers... Technically you want a little differentiation there, but not as sharp a line as you've got. They're still better, though.

    There are lots of good books/tutorials/classes on anatomy out there, so have at it. (Worst case scenario, use the mirror).

    A note on the robes: most people I know who wear robes put the belt knot to the side, rather than in the center.

    NakedElf on
  • lyriumlyrium Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Here's a nifty reference for wings.

    winglow.jpg

    lyrium on
Sign In or Register to comment.