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Prog and other unlistenable music

12357

Posts

  • MrMisterMrMister A pup must first get in the water to be successful as a seal!Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The minute you can diss someone for liking someone is the minute the whole point of music is lost, and I wish every person who uses it as a social wedge to die in a fire.

    Sometimes people's taste exposes their personality and perspective. I don't know why calling pretention is now a crime: some things are honest-to-god pretentious.

    MrMister on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    MrMister wrote: »
    The minute you can diss someone for liking someone is the minute the whole point of music is lost, and I wish every person who uses it as a social wedge to die in a fire.

    Sometimes people's taste exposes their personality and perspective. I don't know why calling pretention is now a crime: some things are honest-to-god pretentious.


    Some dude I know has the best reaction when they call his music pretentious:

    "Why thanks. I enjoy listening to music with a high vision that doesn't aim for the cheap seats."

    jungleroomx on
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited July 2007
    Some dude I know has the best reaction when they call his music pretentious:

    "Why thanks. I enjoy listening to music with a high vision that doesn't aim for the cheap seats."

    And then the crickets show up.

    Elki on
    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Elkamil wrote: »
    Some dude I know has the best reaction when they call his music pretentious:

    "Why thanks. I enjoy listening to music with a high vision that doesn't aim for the cheap seats."

    And then the crickets show up.

    Calling someone pretentious when they consider it a character trait just takes all the fun out of things, I know.

    Personally, purposely underplaying instruments seems almost worst than overplaying.

    jungleroomx on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Personally, purposely underplaying instruments seems almost worst than overplaying.

    I find simplicity for simplicity's sake to be significantly more "pretentious" than complexity for complexity's sake.

    I'm looking at you, Jack White.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Feral wrote: »
    Personally, purposely underplaying instruments seems almost worst than overplaying.

    I find simplicity for simplicity's sake to be significantly more "pretentious" than complexity for complexity's sake.

    I'm looking at you, Jack White.

    The difference as I see it is that purposely underplaying sets a cieling your fans never expect you to go over, while overplaying allows you to throw in lots of "simple" stuff here and there without too much grief.

    jungleroomx on
  • FalloutFallout GIRL'S DAY WAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Elkamil wrote: »
    Some dude I know has the best reaction when they call his music pretentious:

    "Why thanks. I enjoy listening to music with a high vision that doesn't aim for the cheap seats."

    And then the crickets show up.

    Calling someone pretentious when they consider it a character trait just takes all the fun out of things, I know.

    Personally, purposely underplaying instruments seems almost worst than overplaying.

    Man, whatever. The Ramones ruled.

    Fallout on
    xcomsig.png
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fallout wrote: »
    Elkamil wrote: »
    Some dude I know has the best reaction when they call his music pretentious:

    "Why thanks. I enjoy listening to music with a high vision that doesn't aim for the cheap seats."

    And then the crickets show up.

    Calling someone pretentious when they consider it a character trait just takes all the fun out of things, I know.

    Personally, purposely underplaying instruments seems almost worst than overplaying.

    Man, whatever. The Ramones ruled.


    They were just technically unskilled, not underplaying. Difference!

    jungleroomx on
  • WorLordWorLord Registered User
    edited July 2007
    The Cheese wrote: »
    I was speaking directly to Worlord. I think we would find that I like a lot of the same music as him, really, but he's being a cunt about this.

    We were both being cunts about it, but until you can tell me why him doing it is fine, and me doing it to prove a point sucks, then I really don't think anything you have to say is worthwhile, sorry.

    Podly called the tune, I danced to it. That's really all there is to this.

    WorLord on
    ...privately black.
  • The CheeseThe Cheese Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I don't have to argue both sides, and Poldy knows he's an idiot already.

    The Cheese on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    UneXpect: French operatics, prog, black metal.

    I hope someones head explodes while listening to it.

    jungleroomx on
  • The CheeseThe Cheese Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    French-canadian, I think you mean ;)

    Do you like Augury? They're pretty sweet.

    The Cheese on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The Cheese wrote: »
    French-canadian, I think you mean ;)

    Do you like Augury? They're pretty sweet.

    Love Augury.

    I'm just highly impressed at a lot of Canadian bands making headway these days. UneXpect and Protest the Hero just being my most notables.

    jungleroomx on
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited July 2007
    Can we declare a temporary moratorium on the "p" word? It's being thrown around so much by both sides that it's pretty much lost all meaning. Not that I think it's ever been very applicable to begin with; a person can be pretentious - which is to say, they can attempt to raise other people's estimation of them by adopting opinions and behaviors from a social set other than their own - but music is either technically complex, or it isn't. It can't "pretend" to be anything.

    As we can infer from Feral's comment,
    Feral wrote:
    I find simplicity for simplicity's sake to be significantly more "pretentious" than complexity for complexity's sake.

    I'm looking at you, Jack White.

    "pretentiousness" is a characteristic of the artist, not the art. I mean, come on, guys. Somebody might be completely unassuming and just honestly enjoy wailing on their guitar for twenty minutes, whilst another guy could go plink-plink on a couple Casio keys for ten seconds and be able to discourse at great length on what it means and how awesome it is.

    The problem is when we start drawing arbitrary social distinctions between people based on their musical tastes, especially since we all go to music expecting wildly different things from it. It's hardly surprising to find that Podly, with his poetry fetish, is going to turn up his nose at songs that are technically proficient but lyrically puerile. Another person might rate music based on its political content, or how well it speaks to their emotions, or how easy it is to dance to. Are any of these wrong?

    Technical proficiency is a worthwhile pursuit, too, and I can understand why people who've devoted a lifetime to mastering the trumpet or the guitar or whatever would want to show off that mastery. But it's hardly fucking surprising that the potential audience for that is going to be a bit smaller than the one for songs about love.

    Jacobkosh on
  • ShoggothShoggoth Registered User
    edited July 2007
    You're kind of ignoring intent but I pretty much agree.

    Shoggoth on
    11tu0w1.jpg
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Man, songs about love

    So tired

    Most love songs have lyrics that could have come from the stock lovesong rhyme generator ala 1984.

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Can we declare a temporary moratorium on the "p" word? It's being thrown around so much by both sides that it's pretty much lost all meaning. Not that I think it's ever been very applicable to begin with; a person can be pretentious - which is to say, they can attempt to raise other people's estimation of them by adopting opinions and behaviors from a social set other than their own - but music is either technically complex, or it isn't. It can't "pretend" to be anything.

    As we can infer from Feral's comment,

    Feral wrote:
    I find simplicity for simplicity's sake to be significantly more "pretentious" than complexity for complexity's sake.

    I'm looking at you, Jack White.

    "pretentiousness" is a characteristic of the artist, not the art. I mean, come on, guys. Somebody might be completely unassuming and just honestly enjoy wailing on their guitar for twenty minutes, whilst another guy could go plink-plink on a couple Casio keys for ten seconds and be able to discourse at great length on what it means and how awesome it is.

    The problem is when we start drawing arbitrary social distinctions between people based on their musical tastes, especially since we all go to music expecting wildly different things from it. It's hardly surprising to find that Podly, with his poetry fetish, is going to turn up his nose at songs that are technically proficient but lyrically puerile. Another person might rate music based on its political content, or how well it speaks to their emotions, or how easy it is to dance to. Are any of these wrong?

    Technical proficiency is a worthwhile pursuit, too, and I can understand why people who've devoted a lifetime to mastering the trumpet or the guitar or whatever would want to show off that mastery. But it's hardly fucking surprising that the potential audience for that is going to be a bit smaller than the one for songs about love.

    Thank you. Jesus.

    MikeMan on
    HOW DO YOU FUCK UP BAGELS. YOU BOIL THE WATER. PUT IN THE NOODLES
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Quick response to Jacobkosh:

    Have my babies. Thank you so much.

    jungleroomx on
  • MrMisterMrMister A pup must first get in the water to be successful as a seal!Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    "pretentiousness" is a characteristic of the artist, not the art.

    Art can most certainly be pretentious. Art is pretentious when it pulls an Emperor's New Clothes--namely, it attempts to tackle big shit (tm) but does so in a puerile way. An offhand example of a two-word pretentious poem, one which my friend had to read in highschool: "black white." Like those two words juxtaposed really illuminate race relations--it's obviously trying for something profound, but falls utterly and embarassingly flat.

    People may be quick to throw out the p-word, but honestly, art often reflects back on the people who enjoy it.

    MrMister on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Can we declare a temporary moratorium on the "p" word?

    Okay, fair enough.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    MrMister wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    "pretentiousness" is a characteristic of the artist, not the art.

    Art can most certainly be pretentious. Art is pretentious when it pulls an Emperor's New Clothes--namely, it attempts to tackle big shit (tm) but does so in a puerile way. An offhand example of a two-word pretentious poem, one which my friend had to read in highschool: "black white." Like those two words juxtaposed really illuminate race relations--it's obviously trying for something profound, but falls utterly and embarassingly flat.

    People may be quick to throw out the p-word, but honestly, art often reflects back on the people who enjoy it.

    If someone enjoys prog rock and disparages other types of music as being too simplistic, why does that reflect on the music itself? There are assholes in any fandom. A lot of these guys are children of the late 70s and 80s who evolved in the vein of Jethro Tull and Yes. I know a lot of the guys from Dream Theater personally, and they're seriously some of the most down-to-earth musicians I've ever met. They don't consider their music the ultimate in the art; they just enjoy creating complicated riffs and time signatures. And some people enjoy listening to them.

    MikeMan on
    HOW DO YOU FUCK UP BAGELS. YOU BOIL THE WATER. PUT IN THE NOODLES
  • MrMisterMrMister A pup must first get in the water to be successful as a seal!Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I don't know jack shit about dream theater, I was just saying that, in a general sense, art can be quite pretentious.

    MrMister on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    MrMister wrote: »
    I don't know jack shit about dream theater, I was just saying that, in a general sense, art can be quite pretentious.


    The art isn't pretentious: It's shitty.

    The artist failed.

    jungleroomx on
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited July 2007
    MrMister wrote: »
    An offhand example of a two-word pretentious poem, one which my friend had to read in highschool: "black white."

    Yeah, there, I'd call that a bad poem. And maybe the person who wrote it is pretentious, or maybe they're just not a good poet. Or maybe they were taking the piss. We can't know unless we meet them, or read something by them, to give that poem more context.

    Look, I'm not suggesting banning the word or anything. Obviously in real life we encounter situations all the time where we're going to make that call and we'll often be right. But in this particular thread the word, and all its associated value judgments, really seems to have become a hindrance to communication.

    Jacobkosh on
  • Bob The MonkeyBob The Monkey Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    damn, more bitches need to get down on their post-modernism

    'cause artists' intentions don't mean jack to their art in a post-modern worldview, homeboys

    Bob The Monkey on
  • STATE OF THE ART ROBOTSTATE OF THE ART ROBOT Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Some people enjoy a certain kind of music. Others enjoy a different kind of music. I don't really think any worse of someone who happens to like country music (even though I hate it).

    STATE OF THE ART ROBOT on
  • InPraisOfBacchusInPraisOfBacchus Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Podly wrote: »
    Actually, I think Tool is some of the worst offenders out there for Metal. I'd much rather a sophomoric or teen angsty metal album resonate with someone than bloated, pretentious, ridiculous prog-metal like Tool and Dream Theater.

    At first I thought this would be an intelligent discussion. Then you brought up Dream Theater, and I realized......why bother?

    InPraisOfBacchus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MrMisterMrMister A pup must first get in the water to be successful as a seal!Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    damn, more bitches need to get down on their post-modernism

    'cause artists' intentions don't mean jack to their art in a post-modern worldview, homeboys

    Ironically, I find post-modernism incredibly pretentious.

    Yes--pretention is, in many ways, a subjective label.

    MrMister on
  • RobloRoblo Registered User
    edited July 2007
    I know a lot of people who utterly worship Tool. I really dont get it. sure, they're ok, if they come on while i'm in a rock club or some thing, i'll dance. i'll even listen to them at home from time to time, but they're not that great. When ever i mention it to my friends i mainly get the 'you just dont 'get' it' bullshit that i'm sure some other people have mentioned. none of them can actually say really why they're so good, usually stuff like 'oh they're really deep' or rubbish like that.

    i have a friend (well, an ex friend) who is obsessed with them, then again he pretty much defines 'pretentious', which leads me to hate tool even more.

    anyway, its nice to see some people who dont think they are gods gift to music.

    Roblo on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Tool is fucking ridiculous live. I thought they were good until I saw them perform... and then they were goddamn GREAT. And I do believe they deserve a lot of the hype they get (rabid worshippers nonwithstanding, that shit's just ridiculous).

    jungleroomx on
  • RobloRoblo Registered User
    edited July 2007
    meh, seen them live too, i fell asleep :S

    Roblo on
  • AJRAJR Been spending most their lives Livin' in the Green Hill paradiseRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Roblo wrote: »
    meh, seen them live too, i fell asleep :S

    In the middle of a concert?

    AJR on
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  • RobloRoblo Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Donnington Festival. We were pretty close to the front, but i still managed to drift off...

    Roblo on
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Roblo wrote: »
    meh, seen them live too, i fell asleep :S

    HAHAHA. Holy fuck, I tell this story to friends when they say how awesome Tool is live as well. I, too, fell asleep at a Tool concert.

    Mgcw on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    They play fantastically live but they aren't exactly showmen

    nexuscrawler on
  • WorLordWorLord Registered User
    edited July 2007
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Can we declare a temporary moratorium on the "p" word? It's being thrown around so much by both sides that it's pretty much lost all meaning.

    Thank you. Jesus.

    x2

    WorLord on
    ...privately black.
  • RobloRoblo Registered User
    edited July 2007
    My god! There is another!

    Although i admit i seem to be pretty good at falling asleep at festivals, i slept through Lamb of God, Stone Sour and Killswitch Engage, in one go, right in front of the main stage this year. oops.

    Roblo on
  • SnorkSnork Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    How the fuck do you fall asleep at a concert, much less a metal concert? That's impressive.

    Snork on
  • the Togfatherthe Togfather Registered User
    edited July 2007
    This thread defines ridiculous, for all the reasons stated above. But the fact people so casually dismiss Tool's lyrics makes me a sad clown. Go look up the lyrics for Wings for Marie, parts 1 and 2, off of 10,000 Days, read them, then realize that he's singing about his mother who suffered a stroke or something which paralyzed her and put her in a wheelchair for a long time until she was finally freed by death. Anyone wanna guess at about how many days she lived like that? anyone?

    the Togfather on
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  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    This thread defines ridiculous, for all the reasons stated above. But the fact people so casually dismiss Tool's lyrics makes me a sad clown. Go look up the lyrics for Wings for Marie, parts 1 and 2, off of 10,000 Days, read them, then realize that he's singing about his mother who suffered a stroke or something which paralyzed her and put her in a wheelchair for a long time until she was finally freed by death. Anyone wanna guess at about how many days she lived like that? anyone?

    No, you're wrong, Tool's pretentious and their lyrics are masturbatory and anyone who likes Tool is a pretentious idiot. :roll:
    Generalizations about things we don't know too well are fun!

    MikeMan on
    HOW DO YOU FUCK UP BAGELS. YOU BOIL THE WATER. PUT IN THE NOODLES
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