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Hitting the Ceiling: PGR4 limited by DVD

devolvedevolve Registered User regular
edited August 2007 in Games and Technology
I honestly didn't think this would happen this soon, and especially to a game that appears to be this "small" but it appears to be the case. Bizarre creations admits in an interview that the reason why pgr4 won't have night and day in various cities is because it just won't fit onto a dvd if they did.
You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night).
Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD


http://www.mcvuk.com/news/27908/DVD-places-limits-on-PGR4



I don't mind if rpg's or even fps's go onto two dvd's, I really don't. But racing games? Is this only going to get worse from here on out? Wasn't there some new super rad compression technology that was supposed to revolutionize this kind of issue?

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devolve on
«134

Posts

  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I think they aren't compressing too much, but with a racing game where it needs to load the environment on the fly perhaps they can't. Do they really need 2 textures though? Can't they dynamically light the environment now so it just shades down the textures so it looks dark out?

    Perhaps I'm wrong here, because I know nothing of the physical nature of games, but it seems like there are ways they could do this without doubling all the textures.

    ArcSyn on
    4dm3dwuxq302.png
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    I think they aren't compressing too much, but with a racing game where it needs to load the environment on the fly perhaps they can't. Do they really need 2 textures though? Can't they dynamically light the environment now so it just shades down the textures so it looks dark out?

    Perhaps I'm wrong here, because I know nothing of the physical nature of games, but it seems like there are ways they could do this without doubling all the textures.

    I think in the case of this game, it's probably more of a case of lights in windows, neon signs etc rather than just the textures need to be a little darker.

    Rook on
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Rook wrote: »
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    I think they aren't compressing too much, but with a racing game where it needs to load the environment on the fly perhaps they can't. Do they really need 2 textures though? Can't they dynamically light the environment now so it just shades down the textures so it looks dark out?

    Perhaps I'm wrong here, because I know nothing of the physical nature of games, but it seems like there are ways they could do this without doubling all the textures.

    I think in the case of this game, it's probably more of a case of lights in windows, neon signs etc rather than just the textures need to be a little darker.


    So release it on two discs with the option to install the second disk on the hard drive.

    Or release the night tracks as a premium marketplace download.... D:

    chamberlain on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    I think they aren't compressing too much, but with a racing game where it needs to load the environment on the fly perhaps they can't. Do they really need 2 textures though? Can't they dynamically light the environment now so it just shades down the textures so it looks dark out?

    Perhaps I'm wrong here, because I know nothing of the physical nature of games, but it seems like there are ways they could do this without doubling all the textures.


    This would lack the quality that we've come to expect from the environments in PGR.

    Case in point.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • mausmalonemausmalone Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Rook wrote: »
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    I think they aren't compressing too much, but with a racing game where it needs to load the environment on the fly perhaps they can't. Do they really need 2 textures though? Can't they dynamically light the environment now so it just shades down the textures so it looks dark out?

    Perhaps I'm wrong here, because I know nothing of the physical nature of games, but it seems like there are ways they could do this without doubling all the textures.

    I think in the case of this game, it's probably more of a case of lights in windows, neon signs etc rather than just the textures need to be a little darker.

    Actually in PGR they use HDR lightmaps to do all the lighting. So you'd need to double up on the most memory consuming textures you have in order to make it happen.

    I really hope they're at least storing these things in LogLUV instead of raw fRGB. That would cut down on size by a significant amount (4 Bpp instead of 12 Bpp) without a meaningful loss in detail.

    mausmalone on
    266.jpg
  • SerpentSerpent Sometimes Vancouver, BC, sometimes Brisbane, QLDRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    pgr is by no means a small game. it is exactly the type of game which would hit the limit -- compression is going to be limited, textures are going to be high resolution, very little repeat in the textures, and tons of them too.

    Serpent on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    mausmalone wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    I think they aren't compressing too much, but with a racing game where it needs to load the environment on the fly perhaps they can't. Do they really need 2 textures though? Can't they dynamically light the environment now so it just shades down the textures so it looks dark out?

    Perhaps I'm wrong here, because I know nothing of the physical nature of games, but it seems like there are ways they could do this without doubling all the textures.

    I think in the case of this game, it's probably more of a case of lights in windows, neon signs etc rather than just the textures need to be a little darker.

    Actually in PGR they use HDR lightmaps to do all the lighting. So you'd need to double up on the most memory consuming textures you have in order to make it happen.

    I really hope they're at least storing these things in LogLUV instead of raw fRGB. That would cut down on size by a significant amount (4 Bpp instead of 12 Bpp) without a meaningful loss in detail.

    Yeah, I totally store all my texture, uh, mapping data in LobGUN format, because I hate, uh... FSQE was it? FBRG? JRPG? I hate JRPG Texture mipmappering... >_>

    ....You lost me at "I". O_o

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
  • fragglefartfragglefart Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    PGR3 is still one of the best looking games ever created, and PGR4 looks even better, so this comes as no real surprise, given that the number of cities has doubled, and all those new weather conditions have been included.

    fragglefart on
    fragglefart.jpg
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm with whoever said that they should just offer nighttime tracks for download to the system. Any game that hits the size limit and doesn't want to go multi disk can do this. And since downloads are tied to the account you can always delete and re-download so that your hard drive doesn't just fill up.

    The_Spaniard on
    Playstation/Origin/GoG: Span_Wolf Xbox/uPlay/Bnet: SpanWolf Nintendo: Span_Wolf SW-7097-4917-9392 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Span_Wolf/
  • mausmalonemausmalone Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    mausmalone wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    I think they aren't compressing too much, but with a racing game where it needs to load the environment on the fly perhaps they can't. Do they really need 2 textures though? Can't they dynamically light the environment now so it just shades down the textures so it looks dark out?

    Perhaps I'm wrong here, because I know nothing of the physical nature of games, but it seems like there are ways they could do this without doubling all the textures.

    I think in the case of this game, it's probably more of a case of lights in windows, neon signs etc rather than just the textures need to be a little darker.

    Actually in PGR they use HDR lightmaps to do all the lighting. So you'd need to double up on the most memory consuming textures you have in order to make it happen.

    I really hope they're at least storing these things in LogLUV instead of raw fRGB. That would cut down on size by a significant amount (4 Bpp instead of 12 Bpp) without a meaningful loss in detail.

    Yeah, I totally store all my texture, uh, mapping data in LobGUN format, because I hate, uh... FSQE was it? FBRG? JRPG? I hate JRPG Texture mipmappering... >_>

    ....You lost me at "I". O_o

    LogLUV = 4 bytes per pixel - compressed HDR image
    fRGB = 12 bytes per pixel - uncompressed HDR image

    With the very limited dynamic range in PGR, LogLUV would cut the on-disc light map size down to 1/3 of its current size and have no visible difference. The catch: you have to uncompress LogLUV before you can use it ... so it doesn't save you any RAM, just disc space.
    I'm with whoever said that they should just offer nighttime tracks for download to the system. Any game that hits the size limit and doesn't want to go multi disk can do this. And since downloads are tied to the account you can always delete and re-download so that your hard drive doesn't just fill up.

    ... o_O ... that's brilliant!

    mausmalone on
    266.jpg
  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Why not do what Chromehounds did? That being have an amazing lightening system that made it so they only had to create one map and one set of textures but it looked flawless at night, day, dusk, dawn, on fire.

    Accualt on
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    mausmalone wrote: »
    I'm with whoever said that they should just offer nighttime tracks for download to the system. Any game that hits the size limit and doesn't want to go multi disk can do this. And since downloads are tied to the account you can always delete and re-download so that your hard drive doesn't just fill up.

    ... o_O ... that's brilliant!

    And whilst you're in Fairyland, can you bring me back some pixie dust and a unicorn's horn.

    Rook on
  • templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    mausmalone wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    I think they aren't compressing too much, but with a racing game where it needs to load the environment on the fly perhaps they can't. Do they really need 2 textures though? Can't they dynamically light the environment now so it just shades down the textures so it looks dark out?

    Perhaps I'm wrong here, because I know nothing of the physical nature of games, but it seems like there are ways they could do this without doubling all the textures.

    I think in the case of this game, it's probably more of a case of lights in windows, neon signs etc rather than just the textures need to be a little darker.
    I really hope they're at least storing these things in LogLUV instead of raw fRGB. That would cut down on size by a significant amount (4 Bpp instead of 12 Bpp) without a meaningful loss in detail.
    I've found that in most situations, it's actually faster to load compressed data then uncompress it than it is to load the whole thing. I haven't played around with HDR much, but the vast majority of textures (or anything, really) are faster to decompress than to wait for the disk hits on the whole thing, and this is just on HDD, let alone a DVD drive.

    I really hope that they're at least smarter than me in this regard.

    EDIT:
    This is actually only tangent to what you mentioned, so it looks funny reading it back. I just wanted to say that I expect it to be in a compressed format.

    templewulf on
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  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Rook wrote: »
    mausmalone wrote: »
    I'm with whoever said that they should just offer nighttime tracks for download to the system. Any game that hits the size limit and doesn't want to go multi disk can do this. And since downloads are tied to the account you can always delete and re-download so that your hard drive doesn't just fill up.

    ... o_O ... that's brilliant!

    And whilst you're in Fairyland, can you bring me back some pixie dust and a unicorn's horn.
    Give me, no us, one good reason why that wouldn't be feasible? We already have downloadable map packs, why can't some game data be stored on the HD? I know it would be a bit clumsy, but it's better than nothing.

    The_Spaniard on
    Playstation/Origin/GoG: Span_Wolf Xbox/uPlay/Bnet: SpanWolf Nintendo: Span_Wolf SW-7097-4917-9392 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Span_Wolf/
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Rook wrote: »
    mausmalone wrote: »
    I'm with whoever said that they should just offer nighttime tracks for download to the system. Any game that hits the size limit and doesn't want to go multi disk can do this. And since downloads are tied to the account you can always delete and re-download so that your hard drive doesn't just fill up.

    ... o_O ... that's brilliant!

    And whilst you're in Fairyland, can you bring me back some pixie dust and a unicorn's horn.
    Give me, no us, one good reason why that wouldn't be feasible? We already have downloadable map packs, why can't some game data be stored on the HD? I know it would be a bit clumsy, but it's better than nothing.

    If you meant pay for downloads, then yeah fine. If you meant free download, then see previous proposition.

    Rook on
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Rook wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    mausmalone wrote: »
    I'm with whoever said that they should just offer nighttime tracks for download to the system. Any game that hits the size limit and doesn't want to go multi disk can do this. And since downloads are tied to the account you can always delete and re-download so that your hard drive doesn't just fill up.

    ... o_O ... that's brilliant!

    And whilst you're in Fairyland, can you bring me back some pixie dust and a unicorn's horn.
    Give me, no us, one good reason why that wouldn't be feasible? We already have downloadable map packs, why can't some game data be stored on the HD? I know it would be a bit clumsy, but it's better than nothing.

    If you meant pay for downloads, then yeah fine. If you meant free download, then see previous proposition.
    Well if they want to charge us for a night time version of a map down the road fine, but what I meant is that they have completed a day and night version of a map and only have room for one on the disk, they could release some of that content online. They don't always have to charge for it and not everybody does.

    The_Spaniard on
    Playstation/Origin/GoG: Span_Wolf Xbox/uPlay/Bnet: SpanWolf Nintendo: Span_Wolf SW-7097-4917-9392 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Span_Wolf/
  • DaybreakDaybreak Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Rook wrote: »
    If you meant pay for downloads, then yeah fine. If you meant free download, then see previous proposition.

    I dunno, I didn't have to go to fairlyland to get the free co-op update for Kameo.

    But I wanted to. I'm all out of gumdrops, you see.

    Daybreak on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Daybreak wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    If you meant pay for downloads, then yeah fine. If you meant free download, then see previous proposition.

    I dunno, I didn't have to go to fairlyland to get the free co-op update for Kameo.

    But I wanted to. I'm all out of gumdrops, you see.

    Oh look, I'm making.. people.. happppy.. I'm the magical man from HAPPY LAND, in a gumdrop house on lolly pop laaaaane.

    The_Spaniard on
    Playstation/Origin/GoG: Span_Wolf Xbox/uPlay/Bnet: SpanWolf Nintendo: Span_Wolf SW-7097-4917-9392 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Span_Wolf/
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Daybreak wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    If you meant pay for downloads, then yeah fine. If you meant free download, then see previous proposition.

    I dunno, I didn't have to go to fairlyland to get the free co-op update for Kameo.

    But I wanted to. I'm all out of gumdrops, you see.

    If only you'd stopped by Fairyland, and paid the river man 200 microsoft poi... uh I mean, 200 wishes, you could have gotten these awesome new costumes that the fairys had just made. It's really lucky how they finished that just as you could get that update and might have an excuse to play the game again. Just coincidental timing... completely and utterly.

    edit: haha classic episode.

    Rook on
  • fragglefartfragglefart Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Daybreak wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    If you meant pay for downloads, then yeah fine. If you meant free download, then see previous proposition.

    I dunno, I didn't have to go to fairlyland to get the free co-op update for Kameo.

    But I wanted to. I'm all out of gumdrops, you see.

    Oh look, I'm making.. people.. happppy.. I'm the magical man from HAPPY LAND, in a gumdrop house on lolly pop laaaaane.

    :lol:

    :^:

    Good show.

    fragglefart on
    fragglefart.jpg
  • SirUltimosSirUltimos Don't talk, Rusty. Just paint. Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Daybreak wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    If you meant pay for downloads, then yeah fine. If you meant free download, then see previous proposition.

    I dunno, I didn't have to go to fairlyland to get the free co-op update for Kameo.

    But I wanted to. I'm all out of gumdrops, you see.

    Oh look, I'm making.. people.. happppy.. I'm the magical man from HAPPY LAND, in a gumdrop house on lolly pop laaaaane.

    You, sir, win. :^:

    SirUltimos on
  • eelektrikeelektrik Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    SirUltimos wrote: »
    Daybreak wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    If you meant pay for downloads, then yeah fine. If you meant free download, then see previous proposition.

    I dunno, I didn't have to go to fairlyland to get the free co-op update for Kameo.

    But I wanted to. I'm all out of gumdrops, you see.

    Oh look, I'm making.. people.. happppy.. I'm the magical man from HAPPY LAND, in a gumdrop house on lolly pop laaaaane.

    You, sir, win. :^:

    I... I don't know whats going on here... I guess I missed something.

    eelektrik on
    (She/Her)
  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    So, how do we turn this around into an LOL Sony? I mean, it has to be done.

    Dirty on
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    eelektrik wrote: »
    SirUltimos wrote: »
    Daybreak wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    If you meant pay for downloads, then yeah fine. If you meant free download, then see previous proposition.

    I dunno, I didn't have to go to fairlyland to get the free co-op update for Kameo.

    But I wanted to. I'm all out of gumdrops, you see.

    Oh look, I'm making.. people.. happppy.. I'm the magical man from HAPPY LAND, in a gumdrop house on lolly pop laaaaane.

    You, sir, win. :^:

    I... I don't know whats going on here... I guess I missed something.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAIGwOFjfZ8

    Rook on
  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I'm surprised this is being cast aside so quickly. I mean, we would go for endless pages about how Blu-Ray has absolutely no benefit for games, and that we'll never really need more space than what DVD to provides. But now an actual game developer (one who works on what I believe is an XBox exclusive franchise no less), says, "Yeah, maybe DVD is holding us back a bit," and we let it slip off the front page.

    Dirty on
  • KamiKami Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Dirty wrote: »
    I'm surprised this is being cast aside so quickly. I mean, we would go for endless pages about how Blu-Ray has absolutely no benefit for games, and that we'll never really need more space than what DVD to provides. But now an actual game developer (one who works on what I believe is an XBox exclusive franchise no less), says, "Yeah, maybe DVD is holding us back a bit," and we let it slip off the front page.

    I thought this exact same thing.

    It is disturbing to think that developers are already running into trouble with compression and the use of dvds. It seems like making Blu-Ray standard in the PS3 was actually a smart investment for down the line.

    I mean, I don't mind multiple CDs/DVDs, but any inconvenience to a developer is a bad thing, whether or not the gaming community finds them insignificant or not.

    Kami on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    First, lol.

    Second, I don't see why they cannot compress a lot of this stuff, and then have it uncompress and install onto the hard drive, then load from there.

    slash000 on
  • KamiKami Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    slash000 wrote: »
    First, lol.

    Second, I don't see why they cannot compress a lot of this stuff, and then have it uncompress and install onto the hard drive, then load from there.

    Well, even though the percentage is small, not every 360 owner has the harddrive, and asking them to pay $99+ to play one game would be marketing suicide.

    Kami on
  • FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    slash000 wrote: »
    First, lol.

    Second, I don't see why they cannot compress a lot of this stuff, and then have it uncompress and install onto the hard drive, then load from there.

    Because not every 360 has a HD, and thus, devs can't make games based around the existence of a HD.

    Fireflash on
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  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Ohhh... right. Hmp.

    Wellp, I always was of the opinion that 2 skus was a bad idea, and that the 360 should have had a standard hard drive in every system just like its predecessor.

    slash000 on
  • FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Agreed, not having a hard drive by default only serves to limit the options a developer has when creating a game. I still hope that eventually Microsoft will allow developers to make games that require a hard drive.

    Do Core 360's even still exist in stores?

    Fireflash on
    PSN: PatParadize
    Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
    Steam Friend code: 45386507
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Microsoft recently said that the Core is still "an important part of the Xbox 360 family" or something. So, officially, they're still there. But I haven't seen one in ages. Not that I've been looking.

    slash000 on
  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I'll be concerned about this sort of thing if Mass Effect ends up only having two environments.

    Accualt on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I just find it incredibly interesting that a racing game would end up being the first type of game to hit the DVD ceiling for a developer.

    I mean, it's obvious that the typical game like a 3D rpg would hit this ceiling first; in fact, it already did -- iirc, Blue Dragon comes on 2 discs.

    Otherwise, people assumed that something like Oblivion, or another 'huge, epic' First Person Shooter would hit that ceiling; since these genres typically rely heavily on impressive graphics and non-repeating textures/environments/enemies. That hasn't really happened yet.


    The funny thing is that RPGs, action games, and FPSs would probably work just fine on multiple discs. The interesting thing about the DVD being a limiting factor is the fact that for certain genres, having multiple discs really isn't an option. Realistic racing games are one of them, and, yeah, they apparently reached that point.

    Too, too bad about the HDD thing.

    slash000 on
  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Do Core 360's even still exist in stores?

    I don't think it really matters if they still exist in stores. People bought them. As long as the Cores make up any significant percentage of the user base, expect developers to cater to it. Even if its only 5%, that's still like 1/2 a million potential customers you don't want to exclude. Also, I'm pretty sure its one of the rules devs have to comply to. To design with the Core in mind.

    Dirty on
  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    slash000 wrote: »
    The funny thing is that RPGs, action games, and FPSs would probably work just fine on multiple discs.

    I dunno if that would be entirely true for FPS games. Sure, its easy to break the campaign up, but not so much the multiplayer maps. Just like racing games, you need all of those environments on one disc to make it convenient. Otherwise, expect to wait an extra minute before each match while half the players get up to change discs.

    Dirty on
  • KamiKami Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    slash000 wrote: »
    The funny thing is that RPGs, action games, and FPSs would probably work just fine on multiple discs. The interesting thing about the DVD being a limiting factor is the fact that for certain genres, having multiple discs really isn't an option. Realistic racing games are one of them, and, yeah, they apparently reached that point.

    That's very true, certain genres seem to have the exact opposite expectations than one would expect.

    For instance, everyone's suprised that PGR4 could be on two DVDs, but I think even more people would be amazed if Mass Effect wasn't on two DVDs. It really comes with the territory of the genre, and what we've been predisposed to in the past.

    Wasn't Gran Tursimo 2 two discs, though? How was that handled, exactly? I remember owning it, but I can't for the life of me remember how the second disc was used, or when one had to switch discs.

    Kami on
  • 043043 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    slash000 wrote: »
    I mean, it's obvious that the typical game like a 3D rpg would hit this ceiling first; in fact, it already did -- iirc, Blue Dragon comes on 2 discs.

    Actually, it's fucking three discs.

    Crazy.

    043 on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    slash000 wrote: »
    I just find it incredibly interesting that a racing game would end up being the first type of game to hit the DVD ceiling for a developer.

    I mean, it's obvious that the typical game like a 3D rpg would hit this ceiling first; in fact, it already did -- iirc, Blue Dragon comes on 2 discs.

    Otherwise, people assumed that something like Oblivion, or another 'huge, epic' First Person Shooter would hit that ceiling; since these genres typically rely heavily on impressive graphics and non-repeating textures/environments/enemies. That hasn't really happened yet.


    The funny thing is that RPGs, action games, and FPSs would probably work just fine on multiple discs. The interesting thing about the DVD being a limiting factor is the fact that for certain genres, having multiple discs really isn't an option. Realistic racing games are one of them, and, yeah, they apparently reached that point.

    Too, too bad about the HDD thing.

    Blue Dragon hit it thanks to FMVs, I think... I'll bet that it's just like Final Fantasy VII, where you can have any disc you want in the drive, but once you hit an FMV, you need "disc 2" in there to load the cinematic (i.e. the entire game is on every disc. The only difference is that the cinematics are split up).

    Also, we definitely all thought that a game like Oblivion would be the first to hit the limit, but it didn't come close. Mass Effect is fitting quite nicely, and from reading developer diaries, it's due to some awesome compression work by the devs.
    Kami wrote: »
    Wasn't Gran Tursimo 2 two discs, though? How was that handled, exactly? I remember owning it, but I can't for the life of me remember how the second disc was used, or when one had to switch discs.

    The arcade version was on one disc, the simulation was on the other.

    Shadowfire on
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Man, there's no reason you'd ever need a hard drive or an integrated disc medium that can store more than a DVD.

    Ever.

    Seriously: Nelson-style HA-HA. I'm not generally one for a victory dance, but for all the dinguses (dingi?) who blathered on about Blu-ray being a terrible choice and something that would never be required in video games: Up yours.

    I mean that in a polite way, but damn, that feels good.

    Threepio on
    142.jpg
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