Kickstarter rewards that don't suck?

JAGSJAGS Orlando/VietnamRegistered User
I don't think I can post my game or KS here without breaking the rules. And this really isn't a cheap ploy to get people interested. I do in fact have a KS going, and it's not going so well. I'm afraid the rewards are a problem. I saw in another thread people don't like the rewards "pay $ to put something in the game". You know taking pledges to let someone else design a monster/weapon/character. Personally I think those are really cool and the most enticing for me. But that's my personality type I guess.

So what does make a good reward? Copies of the game seem to be the most popular. But what if the game is really cheap? Or free? Why would anyone pledge $20 for a game that's not worth more than $20? KS seems to be less and less a place where "dreams" get funded. And more a place where pre-pre-orders get filled at 50%-75% off.

Advice? Ideas?

Cursed MECH 1/2 Tower Defense 1/2 Twin Stick Action. FREE 2 Play.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/budleiser/web-and-ios-game-twin-stick-shooter-tower-defense

Posts

  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2012
    Actually, I'd argue the rewards aren't really what gets people interested in a KS. Because if you look at a lot of the very successful kickstarters, they're usually not getting anything really baller for their money that they wouldn't get anyway through just purchasing it later once it's finished. If the kickstarter's not going well, you probably have a more fundamental issue with either not getting the word out to the right demographic, or it's just a project that people aren't that interested in no matter what the rewards are (unless you start offering rewards that are unfeasible for the project).

    A reward like getting a custom npc in a game with your name is only appealing to someone if they're already excited about the project. If they don't care, such a reward will be meaningless to them. If they're jazzed about the project, it could mean a lot.

    Druhim on
    belruelotterav-1.jpg
    PlatyTychoCelchuuu
  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    Druhim wrote: »
    Actually, I'd argue the rewards aren't really what gets people interested in a KS. Because if you look at a lot of the very successful kickstarters, they're usually not getting anything really baller for their money that they wouldn't get anyway through just purchasing it later once it's finished. If the kickstarter's not going well, you probably have a more fundamental issue with either not getting the word out to the right demographic, or it's just a project that people aren't that interested in no matter what the rewards are (unless you start offering rewards that are unfeasible for the project).

    A reward like getting a custom npc in a game with your name is only appealing to someone if they're already excited about the project. If they don't care, such a reward will be meaningless to them. If they're jazzed about the project, it could mean a lot.

    This guy knows whats up. People dont contribute to NPR for the tote bag.

    And I won, so you lose,
    Guess it always comes down to.
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Druhim wrote: »
    If the kickstarter's not going well, you probably have a more fundamental issue with either not getting the word out to the right demographic, or it's just a project that people aren't that interested in no matter what the rewards are (unless you start offering rewards that are unfeasible for the project).

    These, or the presentation is lacking. It could be a really cool idea that lots of people would enjoy and contribute to, but your Kickstarter page isn't doing it justice and making it look interesting/unique enough.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    The greatest reward to your funders is actually finishing your damn project.

    I will concur with the sentiment that the rewards are not really the thing that *makes* people get involved with a KS. It's more like a cherry on top.

    I don't have the good articles about it, but some surveys suggest that mostly people just want a pre-order copy, and things like "name an NPC after me" barely move the needle

    so, adjust accordingly.

  • MolybdenumMolybdenum Registered User regular
    People contribute to NPR because they enjoy receiving the service.

    People contribute to kickstarters because they want one of whatever it is you're selling.

    "Hey, that's a cool idea, hope it goes well" donations are more in the $1-10 range, in most cases, and even then there are often simple rewards. Wallpapers, postcards, thankyou messages or donor lists, etc.

    Steam: Cilantr0
    3DS: 0447-9966-6178
  • EntriechEntriech Registered User regular
    I did read a fairly in-depth article on one potential kickstarter strategy from a developer. Maybe it'll help you out. You can find it here.

    JAGS
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Though, personally at least, rewards do increase the amount I'll contribute.

    However that only really comes into effect once I've decided to contribute, which is based on how interesting I find the project.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
    tynic
  • JAGSJAGS Orlando/VietnamRegistered User
    Entriech wrote: »
    I did read a fairly in-depth article on one potential kickstarter strategy from a developer. Maybe it'll help you out. You can find it here.

    That was an awesome article! Thank you.

    I'm glad so many people (at least here) are in agreeance that KS games category isn't just a place for pre-pre-orders. Sadly that means A) I'm not getting enough eyeballs on the game and B) People aren't excited about it. Either because it's not their cup of tea, it's not good enough to show off yet, or I'm just not presenting it well enough. :(

    Cursed MECH 1/2 Tower Defense 1/2 Twin Stick Action. FREE 2 Play.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/budleiser/web-and-ios-game-twin-stick-shooter-tower-defense
  • JAGSJAGS Orlando/VietnamRegistered User
    So how should I drive more people to my Tower Defense + Dual Stick Action game? Like this forum most have rules against spam/advertising. (And I don't blame them)

    Cursed MECH 1/2 Tower Defense 1/2 Twin Stick Action. FREE 2 Play.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/budleiser/web-and-ios-game-twin-stick-shooter-tower-defense
  • EsseeEssee The pinkest of hair. Victoria, BCRegistered User regular
    Well, number one, putting a link to your game in your signature and participating in forums like this one is indeed a good idea (I see from your current sig that you're wondering about that). Usually forums are cool with THAT kind of self-advertising, as long as you post content that isn't just shilling your Kickstarter. I thiiink PA's rules post specifically mentions that this is okay, but if it doesn't, it definitely is okay and that's typically the first advice people give around here when it comes to people asking how to advertise themselves. So there, now it's in the thread and people who have more ideas about advertising can weigh in because I'm not too sure about it either. The one other thing I can think of is... Reddit maybe? Man, I dunno. Luckily I don't really have anything I need to advertise at the moment myself. :P

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Hehe, I see your sig.

    You don't need permission to promote your game in your sig. You only need permission if you want to post about it in the Indie Games subforum, or somewhere else. And that, you have to go to Tube for.

    That said, you can't go around posting "HEY GUYS LOOK AT MY SIG." Be cool, man.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    JAGS wrote: »
    So how should I drive more people to my Tower Defense + Dual Stick Action game? Like this forum most have rules against spam/advertising. (And I don't blame them)

    You have a web presence. Use it. Wherever you have a place you can get the word out, try (Facebook, Twitter, here or in other forums in your signature, reddit was mentioned above). If you have lots of friends/followers/whatever on these, they can help, even if the response rate is fairly low.

    Have anyone else that was in the development also do that.

    Encourage close friends and family to spread the word as well, and anyone that has really gotten interested in the KS.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • JAGSJAGS Orlando/VietnamRegistered User
    edited October 2012
    ceres wrote: »
    Hehe, I see your sig.

    You don't need permission to promote your game in your sig. You only need permission if you want to post about it in the Indie Games subforum, or somewhere else. And that, you have to go to Tube for.

    That said, you can't go around posting "HEY GUYS LOOK AT MY SIG." Be cool, man.


    Ok thanks. For some reason I can't get html tags to work, it just shows up as code not links and imgs. Weird.

    Ok so now, if you want, you guys can check out my game/kickstarter and tell me why it sucks @[email protected]

    Actually please do I just used my $100 code for google adwords, dropped $120 in facebook ads and another $25 in web comic ads. All of it will be wasted if the landing page (kickstarter) doesn't convert people.

    JAGS on
    Cursed MECH 1/2 Tower Defense 1/2 Twin Stick Action. FREE 2 Play.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/budleiser/web-and-ios-game-twin-stick-shooter-tower-defense
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Ok, I'll give my perspective. I don't presume to speak for anyone else, just my point of view. Looking at your kickstarter, I see a project that's in a very early phase of development. You've got some graphic assets to show us what the character and some of the baddies look like, but it's all pretty crude looking to me in the sense that I can't get a sense at all for whether I would enjoy playing this. I like TD games, but what I'm seeing so far is some art assets but mostly you selling the idea of the game. I don't know who you are, you include a couple of endorsements in the video that I don't care about (others might). All told, I'm seeing an idea for a game and I'm seeing some people saying you have to potential to make good games. But I'm not seeing an actual game and you don't have a track record for me to look at and say, "yeah, this guy has a track record of making stuff I like so I trust him."

    My philosophy is that the idea is just the starting point. Everyone has ideas. Great ideas don't make a good product and I don't really care much about someone's idea until they can show me they can actually execute it well. It's all about solid execution. I'll take a well executed game that reuses ideas over a totally novel idea that's poorly executed any day. And I don't see anything that leaves me feeling like this F2P game is something I should invest in at all.

    belruelotterav-1.jpg
    JAGSkimeToxUsagi
  • JAGSJAGS Orlando/VietnamRegistered User
    Thanks Druhim,

    Your right we're not a the Beta stage of game development which is where outsides would be able to get the sense of whether or not they like the game.To me we're beyond the "idea" phase of the game both financially and technically. But from a marketing standpoint that's moot. So these are all great points..... is there much that can be done to overcome it? Besides waiting until were in Beta to re-launch KS?

    Cursed MECH 1/2 Tower Defense 1/2 Twin Stick Action. FREE 2 Play.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/budleiser/web-and-ios-game-twin-stick-shooter-tower-defense
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I don't have any relevant experience that would allow me to give you meaningful advice on how to get people interested. I can only share my perspective as a prospective customer/investor based on what I'm seeing. Sorry!

    belruelotterav-1.jpg
    JAGS
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    I know nothing about marketing but I love me some tower defense:

    -I actually really like a pile of money's worth of unlockables as a reward, because I'm one of those people who likes to have everything in a game. That said, with no feel whatsoever for how that system is going to work or what that money would buy me, I would be a little nervous pulling the trigger.
    - Dru is right that there's not much there.. just some pictures. I took a glance and didn't see any game animation whatsoever, and I think having even one readily accessible sequence of real game animation would make a huge difference. I think that's one of the things contributing to the "ideas stage" feel; it's pretty hard to envision implementation with what you've got there.
    - I like the idea that I could get a unique item in the game for donating, although I would probably like it more if it were multiplayer somehow and there was a way I could show that off to other people, because I'm kind of a dick that way. I'm guessing there won't be, and because of that.. well.. it's still cool, but not AS cool.
    - What the person said above about letting people design parts of the game: there is no motivation for me to do that because I lack even a single molecule of artistic or design ability, so it's kind of wasted here. Someone else might really like that (especially if they're credited), but for people like me it might be good to have an alternate reward for those tiers.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I haven't looked at many kickstarters, so I don't know if this is the norm or not, but here are my thoughts.

    There's no gameplay videos. You may not be in the Beta stage yet, but you should have some working build of the game. If all you have is literally just the pictures, then no, you aren't out of the idea stage yet. From the Kickstarter, I got the impression that you had more, but I actually want to see it to better know if I'd like e game or not.

    I didn't really get any semblance of a plan from the Kickstarter. You want 10k, but how specifically will it be used? How long will that fund, and what happens if you run past that? You don't even have an expected release date that I could easily see, and that's almost a deal breaker. You also mention that more than 10k will help "safeguard for any setbacks." That kind of honesty is all well and good, but it does not inspire confidence.

    I think improving those two areas will help the most. The video could use some work, but that will maybe be covered just by fixing what I already mentioned (pictures of the main developer lead guy on vacation or whatnot, while sort of interesting and giving you a bit of character, aren't really what you should be showing me as my "first glimpse" into your game/studio).

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
    Druhim
  • TechnicalityTechnicality Registered User regular
    I agree with Druhim, you need to have more to show people.

    If you don't have enough content yet to fake some game footage, its probably too soon to ask for money. If you do have enough content, investing a little time in faking some game footage is probably a good idea, as you really need to see an action game in motion to get and idea of what (if anything) makes it special.

    Also, regarding the video. I personally would do less slideshow about your life history, and more short bits of video of you and members of the team talking about their favourite upcoming features, showing off implemented exciting features and just generally looking like busy enthusiastic professional game developers.

    handt.jpg tor.jpg

  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    My main impression is that the writing seems amateurish, similar in tone to what a high school student might produce for a classroom exercise in writing ad copy. As a potential donor, I'm willing to concede that writing ability and coding ability are not the same thing; but also, this tells me that you either 1) don't care if your pitch sounds amateurish, 2) don't have access to someone who can help you improve it, or 3) don't realize that the writing is weak. Any of those things would make me less likely to donate.

    (I'm not calling you stupid by any means. Writing well takes practice, just like everything else. :) )

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Something else I just noticed that would possibly turn me off. Your pitch talks a decent amount about it being free to play, and the reasons why you chose that. (Even your sig mentions the free to play aspect.) It was only when looking closely at the rewards that I noticed you are also going to have in-app purchases.

    That seems either negligent or a bit dishonest on your part.

    But either way, before I would fund this, I want to know what exactly kind of game I'd be getting. IAP can have a huge effect, sometimes negatively... Or they could be innocuous. But a LOT of "free to play" games are free in name only, but to actually do anything worthwhile in them you have to pay. Beyond that, you are offering $25 and $50 store credits as awards, and that makes me think I could potentially have to pay a lot for the features in your game.

    If you were to convince me to contribute, besides the stuff I mentioned above, you should also be very clear what is free, and what is not.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Yeah, without any sort of actual video, I have no way to separate you from anyone else who is scamming me for money on an idea that will never deliver. Or, more likely, a guy with a great idea but no project management ability who will sputter out before delivering.

    Not that I'm saying you are those things. You just haven't convinced me through your kickstarter that you've got a legitimate project that will make it to completion with money.

    What is this I don't even.
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2012
    That's a pretty standard approach in free to play games. It's either ads in game, or buying game extras whether that be extra skins, pets, gear, etc. How else would they make money on the game? Which is something that does tend to make me leery, because it's rarely done well. But it's not always a problem.

    Druhim on
    belruelotterav-1.jpg
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Druhim wrote: »
    That's a pretty standard approach in free to play games. It's either ads in game, or buying game extras whether that be extra skins, pets, gear, etc. How else would they make money on the game? Which is something that does tend to make me leery, because it's rarely done well. But it's not always a problem.

    The things that they specifically mention in the Kickstarter are "Weapons, Turrets, and Specials". ie gameplay elements.

    That is what concerns me, as that could be very restrictive if you don't want to spend any/a lot of money.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • JAGSJAGS Orlando/VietnamRegistered User
    edited November 2012
    ceres wrote: »
    ...
    - Dru is right that there's not much there.. just some pictures. I took a glance and didn't see any game animation whatsoever, and I think having even one readily accessible sequence of real game animation would make a huge difference. I think that's one of the things contributing to the "ideas stage" feel; it's pretty hard to envision implementation with what you've got there.
    ...

    We just finished the first test on Android. It's really really basic stuff. If your in the business you'd say it's one of the best looking "first playable" milestones you've ever seen. Because the FP milestone *usually* has no visuals, just placeholders or wireframes. It's literally just there to test the framework the rest of the game will be built on. In other words, it's probably not going to show anyone client or designer if the game is fun. It just shows things like: whether guns shoot, bullets move and hit things. ;)

    That said I put a short clip of it in the first video and one of the feedback's was that it didn't look good enough and probably wasn't helping the KS. Maybe you can tell me: Should this video be on the KS page? In the main video? - Skip to 0:23

    JAGS on
    Cursed MECH 1/2 Tower Defense 1/2 Twin Stick Action. FREE 2 Play.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/budleiser/web-and-ios-game-twin-stick-shooter-tower-defense
  • JAGSJAGS Orlando/VietnamRegistered User
    kime wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    That's a pretty standard approach in free to play games. It's either ads in game, or buying game extras whether that be extra skins, pets, gear, etc. How else would they make money on the game? Which is something that does tend to make me leery, because it's rarely done well. But it's not always a problem.

    The things that they specifically mention in the Kickstarter are "Weapons, Turrets, and Specials". ie gameplay elements.

    That is what concerns me, as that could be very restrictive if you don't want to spend any/a lot of money.

    That's a very valid point thank you for bringing that up. In refence I like how AirMech and LOL do their free to play. You unlock things a very decent pace, but you if you want it faster you can pay. And thats what I want, but I definitely didn't explain that in the KS or video.

    I was hesitant to come out and say "THIS is the pricing plan and ten commandments" because then it feels set it stone and if I change it I look like a liar....which I don't like. The truth is elements, pricing, and design in general shifts moves and adjusts. But I definitely need to approach the In App items, for the store credit rewards to make sense.


    I think the biggest lesson learned....it's a pain the butt to host a KS without being in your BETA stage >_<


    A general overall thanks to anyone who has replied to this thread. It really does help.

    Cursed MECH 1/2 Tower Defense 1/2 Twin Stick Action. FREE 2 Play.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/budleiser/web-and-ios-game-twin-stick-shooter-tower-defense
  • JAGSJAGS Orlando/VietnamRegistered User
    edited November 2012
    Calica wrote: »
    My main impression is that the writing seems amateurish, similar in tone to what a high school student might produce for a classroom exercise in writing ad copy. As a potential donor, I'm willing to concede that writing ability and coding ability are not the same thing; but also, this tells me that you either 1) don't care if your pitch sounds amateurish, 2) don't have access to someone who can help you improve it, or 3) don't realize that the writing is weak. Any of those things would make me less likely to donate.

    (I'm not calling you stupid by any means. Writing well takes practice, just like everything else. :) )

    You are right the whole video is amateurish. But I think (thought) that was part of the appeal of KS. It's not supposed to be professional actors and professional commercials. It's real people with real *other* jobs making videos for their project. But this sentiment or expectancy seems to have changed from the last couple of years when I look at successfully funded projects and non-funded. People's expectations for video quality is really really high now..... I was reading a reply to another KS (that failed btw) and one of the feedback posts was that it looked like they were reading from a script because they kept looking off camera once n awhile. My thought was @(*(*#$@#&amp; their programmers not professional actors. Even the president reads from a teleprompter! But this is what people are accustomed to now in all videos for anything. If it ain't pro it's blow. (yay rhymes)

    /end rant: Thanks for the feedback (Seriously please don't take the above as a dismissal because you are 100% right). I am going to consider hiring a professional camera crew to come in and do the video, sound, lighting, and editing. (I'm not joking, if I spend a few hundred to raise 10k it's worth it right?) I just may choose to do that for a KS re-launch instead of this go around.

    PS. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned I talk way too fast in the video and it overloads them. When I listen to it I think I'm going way too fast and should slow down when there is text on the screen. (I just haven't gotten around to fixing it yet)

    JAGS on
    Cursed MECH 1/2 Tower Defense 1/2 Twin Stick Action. FREE 2 Play.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/budleiser/web-and-ios-game-twin-stick-shooter-tower-defense
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    I think standards are high these days because there is just so much to wade through now. And people are generous, but even the very generous are going to have certain things they want to see and if they don't they'll move on.

    I'm going to be straight with you.

    I don't think you have to have a ton of professional actors or commercials... but you do have to be somewhat professional in your own presentation of your work. You have to look dedicated because like it or not, you're selling something. Really think about what you've got available to the people you want to give you lots of money. Think about what (and who) you're presenting, and try to see it from someone else's point of view. Would you give money to this kickstarter? Do you want to hear someone's life story when you read about a game coming out, or do you want to see what the game can do?

    You don't need to have actors or a professionally made video, and if you think you do you're wrong. That one person's comment? Probably not why that kickstarter failed. But you need to have a plan. You need to be able to tell people what that plan is, what your budget is for this money you're asking for and how it will help the game, and you need to be able to tell people where their money is going so they don't feel like they're throwing it into the wind. You have testimonials, but you don't have what you are going to do with $10000. You need to have something, anything to sell before anyone is going to want to hand you cash for this. Right now all you've got is yourself, and that looks bad. A professional camera crew is not going to save you right now.

    I find the rant in your last post kind of disturbing, because it tells me that you didn't expect to have to put any work at all into what is really an attempt at selling a product you don't have yet. You seem to be under the impression that everything has to be perfect to start or it can never get funded, and honestly that feels like an excuse. It feels like you thought to yourself "hey let's put this up on KS for money to finish it at our leisure, because that won't take much effort and it's easy funding," and now you're realizing that hey, all KS ACTUALLY does is give you the potential for a very wide audience.

    But you STILL have to bring in that audience, and YOU are still responsible for selling your product. Having it up there is not enough. You have to have an interesting product AND a breakdown of how you're going to use people's money AND you absolutely do have to have something real to show people because you are otherwise unproven, and yes, you need to have something more than a few concept images to do that. What you seem to need more than anything else right now is an expectation/attitude adjustment. You cannot get this project funded without putting significantly more work into it and having that work to show people at the outset. It doesn't need to be your full-time job, but it DOES need to be what you are spending the majority of your spare time on, because if you can't show people it's that important even to you, nobody else is going to care enough to help you fund it.

    If you give a shit about this and want others to give enough of a shit about it to give you money, you need lots of enthusiasm for it, a really really good plan, and a partial product. You need to make people feel like the money they give you will help bring about a real game that they or someone they know might want to play, and right now you are completely failing to do that. Worry about doing these things before you even think about hiring camera crews or how fast you talk.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    JAGSJHunz
  • EWomEWom Registered User regular
    I just watched the youtube you posted last, and I went to your kickstarter. My impressions are:

    Video: It's not that you talk too fast, it's that you talk like an old internet video that has to buffer between each word. You need to rehearse your script, and be able to say it smoothly. Also, you're development company, or at least game needs its own YouTube channel dedicated to the cause. You've got political shit, and people playing other games and crap like that on your youtube channel. If someone sees this video, and likes what they see, and look for more videos, they very well may be turned off by the other videos that relate nothing at all to the company & project you're promoting.

    KS: I can't read your whole KS page, because it's long and boring. So there's my feed back, your KS is long and boring. I think you can cut a lot out of that (for example enemy types...) and focus on what youre doing, how your doing it, why I should spend my money on you, and as others have said, how it will be spent.

    Also don't knock other studios games "first stage" or whatever, for being wireframes and whatever else. You know what other studies have, that use wire frames and whatever else... games, that are finished. Your goal is to sell your product, not trash other peoples products. If you want to do that, stop your KS for a game, and start one to be a politician.

    Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
  • JAGSJAGS Orlando/VietnamRegistered User
    edited November 2012
    That must have come out wrong, I'm not knocking anyone's first playables.... because FP are NOT supposed to look good. Literally, it's not a goal for a FP to look good. Ours just "does" (in relative terms) because art came faster than code.

    I meant that a FP video...doesn't look good enough to show the public. And that's what we have a FP video, not a beta or even an Alpha.

    JAGS on
    Cursed MECH 1/2 Tower Defense 1/2 Twin Stick Action. FREE 2 Play.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/budleiser/web-and-ios-game-twin-stick-shooter-tower-defense
  • Gilbert0Gilbert0 North of SeattleRegistered User regular
    I think ceres is probably the most on point. Skipping from pure development, you have to think of KS as half investment, half commercial/marketing for your game. You need to be able to have not necessarily a professional product (ie finished game) but a POLISHED presentation. Practice it, then present it. SELL it to me.

    My friend films a webseries with his girlfriend and actor friends that really did it out of love the first year. They built up a fanbase, have twitter and facebook pages with about 1000 people and even had their own panel at PAX. To try and get a second season going, they posted a Indiegogo fundraiser (KS is hard to do for Canada) and actually got it to fund. This was actually his third crowd sourced event and he made some points about what worked and what didn't (hope that's not spamming for the event as it's long closed).

    http://www.phasefirefilms.com/BLOG/5-tips-for-a-successful-crowd-sourced-fundraiser-2/

    One thing to note though, is that he didn't have a single frame of season 2 to show. He didn't need it. It's about representing what you want to stand for and being involved.

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    JAGS wrote: »
    I meant that a FP video...doesn't look good enough to show the public. And that's what we have a FP video, not a beta or even an Alpha.

    That's gonna be hard to sell, then. If you want people to fund you when you really don't have anything worthwhile yet (art doesn't really count for a game), then you need to have a background that shows people you know what you're doing, and you will be able to succeed in a timely manner.

    In the video, there was something about the main guy having some (important?) role in a previous game, I think? Is there anything in that you can talk about a bit, just to show you have some credentials that you will be able to get this done?

    Otherwise, I doubt you're going to accomplish your goal currently. (You've got little to show on this game, and little to show as experience.) But maybe a bit further down the development process?


    Another option. Can you put together something that would demonstrate your gameplay better? You don't need full functionality, or even a full level. You need, like, 5-second clips of different pieces of your game to show how it all fits together, and how it all can be unique and fun.

    Gilbert0 wrote: »
    One thing to note though, is that he didn't have a single frame of season 2 to show. He didn't need it. It's about representing what you want to stand for and being involved.

    Part of the reason they succeeded, I'm sure, is that they had all of season 1 to point to. Plus the fans and followers of that.

    kime on
    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Personally, I don't really care about someone's credentials. If you've made something I'm familiar with and liked, then that's a plus. But I don't really care about your history with the industry.

    belruelotterav-1.jpg
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Druhim wrote: »
    Personally, I don't really care about someone's credentials. If you've made something I'm familiar with and liked, then that's a plus. But I don't really care about your history with the industry.

    In general, I don't either. But when you have no experience, and you also have no real progress on the game that you can point to, there's really nothing for me to look at besides the art and some general ideas. That doesn't inspire me to contribute.

    If you have no real, presentable progress on this game that I'm supposed to fund, but you can say "look at this game I was heavily involved in making/leading the production of in the past. You maybe didn't personally enjoy it (maybe you did, which is better!), but you can see that I at least know what it takes to get a solid-quality game created from start to finish" that means a lot.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    JAGS wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    My main impression is that the writing seems amateurish, similar in tone to what a high school student might produce for a classroom exercise in writing ad copy. As a potential donor, I'm willing to concede that writing ability and coding ability are not the same thing; but also, this tells me that you either 1) don't care if your pitch sounds amateurish, 2) don't have access to someone who can help you improve it, or 3) don't realize that the writing is weak. Any of those things would make me less likely to donate.

    (I'm not calling you stupid by any means. Writing well takes practice, just like everything else. :) )

    You are right the whole video is amateurish. But I think (thought) that was part of the appeal of KS. It's not supposed to be professional actors and professional commercials. It's real people with real *other* jobs making videos for their project. But this sentiment or expectancy seems to have changed from the last couple of years when I look at successfully funded projects and non-funded. People's expectations for video quality is really really high now..... I was reading a reply to another KS (that failed btw) and one of the feedback posts was that it looked like they were reading from a script because they kept looking off camera once n awhile. My thought was @(*(*#$@#&amp; their programmers not professional actors. Even the president reads from a teleprompter! But this is what people are accustomed to now in all videos for anything. If it ain't pro it's blow. (yay rhymes)

    /end rant: Thanks for the feedback (Seriously please don't take the above as a dismissal because you are 100% right). I am going to consider hiring a professional camera crew to come in and do the video, sound, lighting, and editing. (I'm not joking, if I spend a few hundred to raise 10k it's worth it right?) I just may choose to do that for a KS re-launch instead of this go around.

    PS. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned I talk way too fast in the video and it overloads them. When I listen to it I think I'm going way too fast and should slow down when there is text on the screen. (I just haven't gotten around to fixing it yet)

    I meant the actual text on the page. I didn't watch the video because I am at work.

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
  • ValaenaValaena Registered User
    That gameplay video that you posted, honestly, I think you could cut out almost the whole back half of it. I don't understand why you spent so long talking about the other projects you've funded and the android controller. Unless you're plainly stating that there will be a port of your game to it, I don't think it needs to be in there. Also that weird picture of you and a tiger.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • JAGSJAGS Orlando/VietnamRegistered User
    Valaena wrote: »
    That gameplay video that you posted, honestly, I think you could cut out almost the whole back half of it. I don't understand why you spent so long talking about the other projects you've funded and the android controller. Unless you're plainly stating that there will be a port of your game to it, I don't think it needs to be in there. Also that weird picture of you and a tiger.

    Thanks I was just asking about the part of the video that shows the game being played on the Kindle. If that should make it's way into the main KS video? (ie is it good enough?)

    Cursed MECH 1/2 Tower Defense 1/2 Twin Stick Action. FREE 2 Play.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/budleiser/web-and-ios-game-twin-stick-shooter-tower-defense
  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    I lost interest (in that second video) when you started spamming the video with screenshots of other products you're likening your own project to.
    I'm not an expert, but what I've seen kill KS projects is a timing issue. Unless you have a few other games already created to vouch on you have to give some substantial view of what your game is all about. If you don't have that, you need to hold your KS off until you do.

    What I take from your description is that "we" (the customer) aren't funding the game, we're funding your company's rent and wages. That plants the idea that that you're not going to be a successful company and that you're struggling to keep afloat. Obviously, that may not be entirely true, but that doubt doesn't inspire confidence to me. My suggestion is to instead of renting an office and having tons and tons of overhead, you should be working with each other either online or in one of your houses/apartments or in a local public space/coffee shop. That's an advantage of being a small indie shop. If you cut out your insane overhead you should be able to ask for less in your KS. Seeing $80 of $10k sitting there again does not inspire confidence.

    Also, it might be that people do actually like your idea but might be afraid to give you money for fear of your product getting C&D'd by Games Workshop. . .

    edit: oh, and your video is literally 32 seconds of the product you're selling and then over a minute of testimonials from people we've never even heard of. Don't get me wrong, those are some really glowing things those people are saying about you and I know you're proud of it, but this is an industry where for the past 20 years we've been reading boxart testimonials of questionable origins "9 out of 10!!!- gamesradar" "Best game ever!- Gamepro" "EPIC!-something that guy across the street just said and I'm assuming he's talking about my product." We've been desensitized to testimonials and so we pay no attention to them whatsoever.

    I guess what I'm getting towards is that you absolutely must focus on the product in your pitch.

    acidlacedpenguin on
    GT: Acidboogie PSNid: AcidLacedPenguiN
Sign In or Register to comment.