I don't have a machine capable of playing HL2 or pretty much anything. I'm very much excited for The Orange Box for Xbox 360. But I can see how veterans could be upset.
Jesus, how old is your machine that you can't play HL2?
It could be brand new, and simply have integrated graphics. Or just not a great card: I apparently have a Geforce 7300 equivalent card and it stuttered badly on the HL2 demo.
Digital distribution is great. But once I have the product download. The delivery system should go away. This obviously isn't the case with Steam.
So I guess the fact that you can start your games from a desktop shortcut in off-line mode without having to connect to the steam servers with the simple click of a check-box isn't sinking in?
Or is that whole check-box thing still just too complicated?
Then tell me why I can't uninstall Steam once I have my game and continue to play? I have my game. I'm not going to play it online. So tell me, what purpose does Steam serve at that point?
Well.
It lets you play the game.
Glad we can agree on something. So tell me. In what bizarro world is more requirements to play a game a good thing? With all normal games. I just need X and Y to play a game. Now I need X Y and Z
Again, let me reiterate that as digital distribution and a requirement for online play, I have zero problem with Steam. But Steam is nothing but a glorified web portal and auto-patcher if all you do is offline play. So I should be able to get rid of it if I don't want it. I can patch and backup my games just fine by myself k thanx! bi-bi now!
Bzzt.
Buying a physical copy of a game usually involves driving to the store to pick it up. I'll define that as "Z." If you want to be petty, how about "waiting for your Amazon.com/Gamestop.com order to arrive in the mail." That's another requirement.
You're just replacing Z with another Z, i.e. having to authorize that you really have a license to play the game.
I really think you're grasping at straws here. The reasons you are offering up against Steam are, well, nonsense.
ahh but with other digital delivery systems, I don't need to keep it running in order to play. So no...I'm not just replacing Z with another Z.
But hey, you already admitted that your argument was petty. Cuz seriously, the "getting off your ass and going to the store is so hard" argument is pretty graspy at straw argument too
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited August 2007
How can someone complain about a 90 minute download? Chances are if you went to a store to buy the game it would take that long.
And if you started the download before going and doing something else you wouldn't even notice it. Go watch a movie or something. Don't just sit there in front of your PC watching the status bar.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Digital distribution is great. But once I have the product download. The delivery system should go away. This obviously isn't the case with Steam.
So I guess the fact that you can start your games from a desktop shortcut in off-line mode without having to connect to the steam servers with the simple click of a check-box isn't sinking in?
Or is that whole check-box thing still just too complicated?
Then tell me why I can't uninstall Steam once I have my game and continue to play? I have my game. I'm not going to play it online. So tell me, what purpose does Steam serve at that point?
Well.
It lets you play the game.
Glad we can agree on something. So tell me. In what bizarro world is more requirements to play a game a good thing? With all normal games. I just need X and Y to play a game. Now I need X Y and Z
Again, let me reiterate that as digital distribution and a requirement for online play, I have zero problem with Steam. But Steam is nothing but a glorified web portal and auto-patcher if all you do is offline play. So I should be able to get rid of it if I don't want it. I can patch and backup my games just fine by myself k thanx! bi-bi now!
Bzzt.
Buying a physical copy of a game usually involves driving to the store to pick it up. I'll define that as "Z." If you want to be petty, how about "waiting for your Amazon.com/Gamestop.com order to arrive in the mail." That's another requirement.
You're just replacing Z with another Z, i.e. having to authorize that you really have a license to play the game.
I really think you're grasping at straws here. The reasons you are offering up against Steam are, well, nonsense.
ahh but with other digital delivery systems, I don't need to keep it running in order to play. So no...I'm not just replacing Z with another Z.
But hey, you already admitted that your argument was petty. Cuz seriously, the "getting off your ass and going to the store is so hard" argument is pretty graspy at straw argument too
Uh, no, it isn't. Having the game as soon as it hits without leaving your house is a big draw. Not paying for gas and not putting wear and tear on your car (which costs money in the long run) is a big draw. Not having to take the time to drive to a store to buy the game when you have responsibilities like a job, or children, or any other number of things is a huge draw. See, not having to leave the house to buy something is actually a very valid, huge, non-petty reason. Your reasoning against Steam, on the other hand, is complete nonsense and you're just deluding yourself if you think you've made any kind of relevant logical argument in this thread.
But go ahead and have fun crusading against this. I assure you that nobody cares what you think about Steam. If you don't like it, go to the store and buy it. I'm just pointing out that your rationale is illogical and puerile. But you're free to think whatever you want no matter how silly it is.
Steam is used for online gaming, if you want offline gaming see a console. Steam is not going to spy on you and report to the goverment what you do. Its not a virus. Its not going to kill your family and rape your dog. Its not going to burn your house down. Theres no valid reason besides lollol resources being used to care if it running or not. Think of it this way, steam is shelf in your computer, when you want to play a game on that shelf you go get it off the shelf. Just like in real life! NO WAY! If they didnt have steam they would have other anti piracy things and they would be much worse than a convenient system for buying and downloading games and seeing what games friends are playing and in what servers. (see Starforce for bad anti-piracy)
And yes, Steam is the BEST METHOD OF DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION THERE IS TODAY. Name me one service that handles digital distribution better and I'll shut up right now.
Matrix Games. Download, you're given a key, DONE. No activation, no problems with future installs needing internet access.
Fear of the unknown is a hard thing to get over. Nobody really knows what will happen the day Steam turns to "Unsupported" status (that day has to come SOMEDAY; nothing lasts forever).
Well, that argument is pretty much equal to "I'm not buying this! The Earth will become uninhabitable one day, then how will I be able to play it?"
Digital distribution is great. But once I have the product download. The delivery system should go away. This obviously isn't the case with Steam.
So I guess the fact that you can start your games from a desktop shortcut in off-line mode without having to connect to the steam servers with the simple click of a check-box isn't sinking in?
Or is that whole check-box thing still just too complicated?
Then tell me why I can't uninstall Steam once I have my game and continue to play? I have my game. I'm not going to play it online. So tell me, what purpose does Steam serve at that point?
Well.
It lets you play the game.
Glad we can agree on something. So tell me. In what bizarro world is more requirements to play a game a good thing? With all normal games. I just need X and Y to play a game. Now I need X Y and Z
Again, let me reiterate that as digital distribution and a requirement for online play, I have zero problem with Steam. But Steam is nothing but a glorified web portal and auto-patcher if all you do is offline play. So I should be able to get rid of it if I don't want it. I can patch and backup my games just fine by myself k thanx! bi-bi now!
Bzzt.
Buying a physical copy of a game usually involves driving to the store to pick it up. I'll define that as "Z." If you want to be petty, how about "waiting for your Amazon.com/Gamestop.com order to arrive in the mail." That's another requirement.
You're just replacing Z with another Z, i.e. having to authorize that you really have a license to play the game.
I really think you're grasping at straws here. The reasons you are offering up against Steam are, well, nonsense.
ahh but with other digital delivery systems, I don't need to keep it running in order to play. So no...I'm not just replacing Z with another Z.
But hey, you already admitted that your argument was petty. Cuz seriously, the "getting off your ass and going to the store is so hard" argument is pretty graspy at straw argument too
Uh, no, it isn't. Having the game as soon as it hits without leaving your house is a big draw. Not paying for gas and not putting wear and tear on your car (which costs money in the long run) is a big draw. Not having to take the time to drive to a store to buy the game when you have responsibilities like a job, or children, or any other number of things is a huge draw. See, not having to leave the house to buy something is actually a very valid, huge, non-petty reason. Your reasoning against Steam, on the other hand, is complete nonsense and you're just deluding yourself if you think you've made any kind of relevant logical argument in this thread.
But go ahead and have fun crusading against this. I assure you that nobody cares what you think about Steam. If you don't like it, go to the store and buy it. I'm just pointing out that your rationale is illogical and puerile. But you're free to think whatever you want no matter how silly it is.
You're avoiding my point. I already said I have no problem with digital delivery. Once again, any complaint against Steam is being lumped into "you just hate digital delivery so STFU"
I argued that in the offline scenario the only thing I need Steam for is to play games. It serves no absolutely necessary purpose other than that. Since you're avoiding this, I have to assume you concede this point. Other digital delivery systems allow me to play the game independently of the delivery service. Steam does not. You may find this acceptable. And truth be told, I obviously find it acceptable since I have it installed, But I see room for its design to be revised. You apparently don't.
But hey, just continue to insult me and use ad hominem and avoid the pertinent issue. it's cool.
And yes, Steam is the BEST METHOD OF DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION THERE IS TODAY. Name me one service that handles digital distribution better and I'll shut up right now.
Matrix Games. Download, you're given a key, DONE. No activation, no problems with future installs needing internet access.
That's true, actually. I can attest to Matrix Games' method working.
Also, Matrix Games = :^:
Drez on
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Vargas PrimeKing of NothingJust a ShowRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
Do you have an actual REASON that Steam is so unwelcome on your hard drive? Other than "Waah, it shouldn't be there because I don't want to play online?"
Because Steam itself doesn't take up a whole lot of space, and it's not like it's a pain in the ass to have on your machine. So even though my online play is limited with the games I've downloaded through Steam, I can't imagine being so bothered by its presence.
Digital distribution is great. But once I have the product download. The delivery system should go away. This obviously isn't the case with Steam.
So I guess the fact that you can start your games from a desktop shortcut in off-line mode without having to connect to the steam servers with the simple click of a check-box isn't sinking in?
Or is that whole check-box thing still just too complicated?
Then tell me why I can't uninstall Steam once I have my game and continue to play? I have my game. I'm not going to play it online. So tell me, what purpose does Steam serve at that point?
Well.
It lets you play the game.
Glad we can agree on something. So tell me. In what bizarro world is more requirements to play a game a good thing? With all normal games. I just need X and Y to play a game. Now I need X Y and Z
Again, let me reiterate that as digital distribution and a requirement for online play, I have zero problem with Steam. But Steam is nothing but a glorified web portal and auto-patcher if all you do is offline play. So I should be able to get rid of it if I don't want it. I can patch and backup my games just fine by myself k thanx! bi-bi now!
Bzzt.
Buying a physical copy of a game usually involves driving to the store to pick it up. I'll define that as "Z." If you want to be petty, how about "waiting for your Amazon.com/Gamestop.com order to arrive in the mail." That's another requirement.
You're just replacing Z with another Z, i.e. having to authorize that you really have a license to play the game.
I really think you're grasping at straws here. The reasons you are offering up against Steam are, well, nonsense.
ahh but with other digital delivery systems, I don't need to keep it running in order to play. So no...I'm not just replacing Z with another Z.
But hey, you already admitted that your argument was petty. Cuz seriously, the "getting off your ass and going to the store is so hard" argument is pretty graspy at straw argument too
Uh, no, it isn't. Having the game as soon as it hits without leaving your house is a big draw. Not paying for gas and not putting wear and tear on your car (which costs money in the long run) is a big draw. Not having to take the time to drive to a store to buy the game when you have responsibilities like a job, or children, or any other number of things is a huge draw. See, not having to leave the house to buy something is actually a very valid, huge, non-petty reason. Your reasoning against Steam, on the other hand, is complete nonsense and you're just deluding yourself if you think you've made any kind of relevant logical argument in this thread.
But go ahead and have fun crusading against this. I assure you that nobody cares what you think about Steam. If you don't like it, go to the store and buy it. I'm just pointing out that your rationale is illogical and puerile. But you're free to think whatever you want no matter how silly it is.
You're avoiding my point. I already said I have no problem with digital delivery. Once again, any complaint against Steam is being lumped into "you just hate digital delivery so STFU"
I argued that in the offline scenario the only thing I need Steam for is to play games. It serves no absolutely necessary purpose other than that. Since you're avoiding this, I have to assume you concede this point. Other digital delivery systems allow me to play the game independently of the delivery service. Steam does not. You may find this acceptable. And truth be told, I obviously find it acceptable since I have it installed, But I see room for its design to be revised. You apparently don't.
But hey, just continue to insult me and use ad hominem and avoid the pertinent issue. it's cool.
Okay, so your point is that Steam doesn't up and delete itself when you're done downloading and authorizing your purchase of the license?
I'm not sure how I should respond other than how I have been: I think your complaint against Steam - this being the primary or only one - is very unimportant.
I'm not trying to attack you, but I think you're upset about a triviality. And your point about X, Y, Z was also wrong so I went ahead and pointed out why.
Do you have an actual REASON that Steam is so unwelcome on your hard drive? Other than "Waah, it shouldn't be there because I don't want to play online?"
Because Steam itself doesn't take up a whole lot of space, and it's not like it's a pain in the ass to have on your machine. So even though my online play is limited with the games I've downloaded through Steam, I can't imagine being so bothered by its presence.
Yeah, no one's upset that some games are DX10 only. Not one person. :roll:
OK, but Steam isn't a buggy new Operating System that I have to pay for, and it doesn't make all my non-Steam applications run like crap. So there's that.
Fuck online games! I love not having an internet connection yeah!! I love playing a FPS for the single player part then deleting it FOREVER! If I have to get a program that was created to make valve games easier to play multiplayer, what 95% of people who play valve games play, then FUCK THAT. They need to make it how I like it!
Fuck online games! I love not having an internet connection yeah!! I love playing a FPS for the single player part then deleting it FOREVER! If I have to get a program that was created to make valve games easier to play multiplayer, what 95% of people who play valve games play, then FUCK THAT. They need to make it how I like it!
I actually just got around to getting HL2: Deathmatch, and I'm going to get on later.
Also, what else do you need to run Garry's Mod? You need Deathmatch and something else.
As someone who thoroughly hated Steam on its first release I'd have probably had both feet firmly planted in the opposing camp, but nowadays I have difficulty getting pissed off by it.
Possibly because I remember when I'd have killed to be able to get a game in a 5 hour download. With dialup I was sometimes looking at that kind of length for mods or even goddamn patches Oh, the tragedy of it all... But now it's a lot less buggy, it's now far more streamlined, and of course I've now got a connection that's about twenty times faster than what I first experienced it with. Yay!
That said, some of you need to exercise a little understanding here. People are naturally paranoid. And there's precedent. Remember DiVX? And didn't some digital distribution for Prey go dead leaving people with their discs in their hands? (hehe...not really...they didn't even have discs!)
I bought Prey over this service, which was called Triton. It was the crappiest piece of software I'd seen in a long time. There were no other good games on it, the UI looked like utter crap and was uninformative and unhelpful, plus it had a knack for seizing up the game and making me reboot my computer before I could play again. When I heard Triton went under, I was not surprised. I might have been a little miffed, but they automatically sent you a boxed copy of Prey in the mail that you could activate on Steam if you had bought it on Triton.
As for "oh noes valve will go under," first off they wont and secondly they've got a tested patch sitting by that removes the Steam requirement from games.
And as for "you can reinstall without an internet connection", it's a nice thought, but it's going to scare off a lot of publishers due to piracy concerns. Why do you think Steam has such a huge library? Besides, it's only a problem if you're completely unable to get even momentary internet access, which today is essentially never.
Oh and the "but technology in 50 years will be different" argument is just stupid. They're not going to release a patch for a game that makes it less compatible with old systems. It's conceivable that a few obscure games won't get support for a new OS, but that's a risk already inherent in every PC game.
And Steam takes up like 2-3 megs when minimized. It's not exactly a huge imposition on system resources. Needing an internet connection and running a lightweight client are more than worth the advantages of not driving to the store, fiddling with shrinkwrap, entering an insanely long key, babysitting the install process and then finding and installing the patch online.
As for the box art/ physical CD thing, I think it's mostly people who miss getting pretty and shiny things along with their game purchase, or who still associate game ownership with a box. These people just need a bit of time to adjust to the new system.
RandomEngy on
Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
Yeah, no one's upset that some games are DX10 only. Not one person. :roll:
OK, but Steam isn't a buggy new Operating System that I have to pay for, and it doesn't make all my non-Steam applications run like crap. So there's that.
We're sidestepping the issue again.
Look, all I want is for Steam to be independent of the game itself. Other DD systems allow for this. Steam does not. Again, love DD, love that it's a requirement for MP. but leave my SP alone.
Not.An.Unreasonable.Request.
I can't make it any clearer than that and if you still don't understand why it's a valid point despite others on this thread echoing the same sentiment. (and that includes you too Drez) Then you never will. I'm out.
Look, all I want is for Steam to be independent of the game itself. Other DD systems allow for this. Steam does not. Again, love DD, love that it's a requirement for MP. but leave my SP alone.
Not.An.Unreasonable.Request.
I can't make it any clearer than that and if you still don't understand why it's a valid point despite others on this thread echoing the same sentiment. (and that includes you too Drez) Then you never will. I'm out.
Again, look at it from the position of a game publisher. If you've got unlimited reinstalls that don't require a CD in the drive or an internet connection, there's a very good chance you're going to lose a good bit of income from casual piracy. Some publishers are willing to take that risk, but a lot are not. That's why so many are on board with Steam.
RandomEngy on
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Vargas PrimeKing of NothingJust a ShowRegistered Userregular
Yeah, no one's upset that some games are DX10 only. Not one person. :roll:
OK, but Steam isn't a buggy new Operating System that I have to pay for, and it doesn't make all my non-Steam applications run like crap. So there's that.
We're sidestepping the issue again.
Look, all I want is for Steam to be independent of the game itself. Other DD systems allow for this. Steam does not. Again, love DD, love that it's a requirement for MP. but leave my SP alone.
Not.An.Unreasonable.Request.
I can't make it any clearer than that and if you still don't understand why it's a valid point despite others on this thread echoing the same sentiment. (and that includes you too Drez) Then you never will. I'm out.
I didn't sidestep anything. YOU sidestepped by talking about DX10, which has nothing to do with this. DX10 is a very specific requirement for games, which is not free, and which (through Vista) directly affects games that are not specifically made to run under that OS. It's completely unlike Steam.
Your only stated reason for Valve allowing Steam to be uninstalled when you're not actively using it to download or to play online is that you just don't want it there. There's no actual reason for it not to be there.
If you had a hardcopy of Half-Life 2, and Steam never existed, chances are there would be some kind of authentication or anti-piracy files in the install, and some files that allowed for online play/functionality, which would wind up taking up some extra hard drive space once you've installed the game. The game won't run if you delete said files, even though they don't directly affect the game's inherent function. In that scenario, they're serving the same purpose that Steam is now serving on your machine in the real world. What's the difference?
Last year when i switched to a new home computer, i installed the steam client. After logging in i was with a few clicks able to have it download EVERYTHING. No digging up my old half-life cd key. No checking through scratched cd's from a game i bought years ago. Voila it all downloads patches and begins working. That's Just plain Awsomesauce!
Snarfmaster on
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Vargas PrimeKing of NothingJust a ShowRegistered Userregular
Digital distribution is great. But once I have the product download. The delivery system should go away. This obviously isn't the case with Steam.
So I guess the fact that you can start your games from a desktop shortcut in off-line mode without having to connect to the steam servers with the simple click of a check-box isn't sinking in?
Or is that whole check-box thing still just too complicated?
Then tell me why I can't uninstall Steam once I have my game and continue to play? I have my game. I'm not going to play it online. So tell me, what purpose does Steam serve at that point?
Well.
It lets you play the game.
Glad we can agree on something. So tell me. In what bizarro world is more requirements to play a game a good thing? With all normal games. I just need X and Y to play a game. Now I need X Y and Z
Again, let me reiterate that as digital distribution and a requirement for online play, I have zero problem with Steam. But Steam is nothing but a glorified web portal and auto-patcher if all you do is offline play. So I should be able to get rid of it if I don't want it. I can patch and backup my games just fine by myself k thanx! bi-bi now!
Bzzt.
Buying a physical copy of a game usually involves driving to the store to pick it up. I'll define that as "Z." If you want to be petty, how about "waiting for your Amazon.com/Gamestop.com order to arrive in the mail." That's another requirement.
You're just replacing Z with another Z, i.e. having to authorize that you really have a license to play the game.
I really think you're grasping at straws here. The reasons you are offering up against Steam are, well, nonsense.
ahh but with other digital delivery systems, I don't need to keep it running in order to play. So no...I'm not just replacing Z with another Z.
But hey, you already admitted that your argument was petty. Cuz seriously, the "getting off your ass and going to the store is so hard" argument is pretty graspy at straw argument too
Uh, no, it isn't. Having the game as soon as it hits without leaving your house is a big draw. Not paying for gas and not putting wear and tear on your car (which costs money in the long run) is a big draw. Not having to take the time to drive to a store to buy the game when you have responsibilities like a job, or children, or any other number of things is a huge draw. See, not having to leave the house to buy something is actually a very valid, huge, non-petty reason. Your reasoning against Steam, on the other hand, is complete nonsense and you're just deluding yourself if you think you've made any kind of relevant logical argument in this thread.
Not having to worry about shipping or supply interfering with getting your game day 1 is nice too.
Just so you know, concerning all the stuff about piracy, HL2 and pretty much ever other steam-only release have all still been cracked and continue to be cracked very shortly after release. Steam or no Steam. I love Valve and don't steal from them, but just saying. Steam isn't doing a whole hell of a lot to stop the piracy of their games. You essentially can't do a whole hell of a lot to stop the piracy of games.
It's meant to stop casual piracy, mostly. Like "hey man want install tomb raider off my account?" Also you can make hardcore piracy less attractive by disabling pirated copies on game updates or just generally making it a hassle to do.
RandomEngy on
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People are still going to do it but that dosent mean they should be all "oh well fuck it." Every law is broken by somebody but we still have the deterrents there anyway.
For real. The most you can say about Steams anti-piracy measures is that it prevents casual piracy by joe pundit giving a copy to his friend. After that, yeah it's pretty easy to find any of those games up-to-date and ready to go.
Having said that, I feel that Steams anti-piracy measure (requiring you to log in to activate the first time) is relatively benign, especially compared to the ridiculous things we've had to deal with in the past (code wheels? Starforce? OLOL).
I'll also admit that I have concerns about the fact that Steam essentially changes games from a consumable to a service, but honestly I'm not that worried about it anymore. Given my priorities in life, I can't say i'd be all that upset if 5 years from now I couldn't activate HL2 for another run around Nova Prospekt. But that's largely because I don't play as much as I used to I guess, and I figure there's always going to be something more recent to play.
For the most part, I like Steam. It is convinent for re-downloading a game whenever you want without having to go get the box, and it's perfect for demos and such.
I do have a problem with them not releasing a physical copy of Ep2 and Portal though. First, I've never gotten download speeds anywhere near 1mb/s on steam, and it's set up as ideally as possible.
My second point is what probably applies to a lot of people who aren't particularly fond of DD. Psychologically, if I'm going to shell out $70 (which shouldn't be quite that much with current exchange rates, but that's another matter), I want something I can physically hold in my hand to show for it. Yes, technically you're getting the exact same game either way, but it just feels harder to justify a purchase where you're only getting a file. It's similar to why I buy CDs instead of buying the songs online. The packaging is part of the overall experience.
It's great that there's also the option to buy it on Steam, and that you can re-download it from steam later, but it shouldn't be the only way.
Posts
ahh but with other digital delivery systems, I don't need to keep it running in order to play. So no...I'm not just replacing Z with another Z.
But hey, you already admitted that your argument was petty. Cuz seriously, the "getting off your ass and going to the store is so hard" argument is pretty graspy at straw argument too
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
And if you started the download before going and doing something else you wouldn't even notice it. Go watch a movie or something. Don't just sit there in front of your PC watching the status bar.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Uh, no, it isn't. Having the game as soon as it hits without leaving your house is a big draw. Not paying for gas and not putting wear and tear on your car (which costs money in the long run) is a big draw. Not having to take the time to drive to a store to buy the game when you have responsibilities like a job, or children, or any other number of things is a huge draw. See, not having to leave the house to buy something is actually a very valid, huge, non-petty reason. Your reasoning against Steam, on the other hand, is complete nonsense and you're just deluding yourself if you think you've made any kind of relevant logical argument in this thread.
But go ahead and have fun crusading against this. I assure you that nobody cares what you think about Steam. If you don't like it, go to the store and buy it. I'm just pointing out that your rationale is illogical and puerile. But you're free to think whatever you want no matter how silly it is.
And given that it's Valve's product, they can package it, and release it any way they choose. It's their game that they created.
If they wanted to package it in a balloon instead of a box then that's how it would be, whether or not you hate balloons.
Matrix Games. Download, you're given a key, DONE. No activation, no problems with future installs needing internet access.
Well, that argument is pretty much equal to "I'm not buying this! The Earth will become uninhabitable one day, then how will I be able to play it?"
You're avoiding my point. I already said I have no problem with digital delivery. Once again, any complaint against Steam is being lumped into "you just hate digital delivery so STFU"
I argued that in the offline scenario the only thing I need Steam for is to play games. It serves no absolutely necessary purpose other than that. Since you're avoiding this, I have to assume you concede this point. Other digital delivery systems allow me to play the game independently of the delivery service. Steam does not. You may find this acceptable. And truth be told, I obviously find it acceptable since I have it installed, But I see room for its design to be revised. You apparently don't.
But hey, just continue to insult me and use ad hominem and avoid the pertinent issue. it's cool.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
That's true, actually. I can attest to Matrix Games' method working.
Also, Matrix Games = :^:
Because Steam itself doesn't take up a whole lot of space, and it's not like it's a pain in the ass to have on your machine. So even though my online play is limited with the games I've downloaded through Steam, I can't imagine being so bothered by its presence.
sketchyblargh / Steam! / Tumblr Prime
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Okay, so your point is that Steam doesn't up and delete itself when you're done downloading and authorizing your purchase of the license?
I'm not sure how I should respond other than how I have been: I think your complaint against Steam - this being the primary or only one - is very unimportant.
I'm not trying to attack you, but I think you're upset about a triviality. And your point about X, Y, Z was also wrong so I went ahead and pointed out why.
Exactly. It's all of a couple megs. Ooh.
OK, but Steam isn't a buggy new Operating System that I have to pay for, and it doesn't make all my non-Steam applications run like crap. So there's that.
sketchyblargh / Steam! / Tumblr Prime
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Okay, so then you don't really have any argument. Arguing that Steam shouldn't be on your computer after the download is beyond trivial.
Sorry for wasting both of our time.
I actually just got around to getting HL2: Deathmatch, and I'm going to get on later.
Also, what else do you need to run Garry's Mod? You need Deathmatch and something else.
Possibly because I remember when I'd have killed to be able to get a game in a 5 hour download. With dialup I was sometimes looking at that kind of length for mods or even goddamn patches
I bought Prey over this service, which was called Triton. It was the crappiest piece of software I'd seen in a long time. There were no other good games on it, the UI looked like utter crap and was uninformative and unhelpful, plus it had a knack for seizing up the game and making me reboot my computer before I could play again. When I heard Triton went under, I was not surprised. I might have been a little miffed, but they automatically sent you a boxed copy of Prey in the mail that you could activate on Steam if you had bought it on Triton.
As for "oh noes valve will go under," first off they wont and secondly they've got a tested patch sitting by that removes the Steam requirement from games.
And as for "you can reinstall without an internet connection", it's a nice thought, but it's going to scare off a lot of publishers due to piracy concerns. Why do you think Steam has such a huge library? Besides, it's only a problem if you're completely unable to get even momentary internet access, which today is essentially never.
Oh and the "but technology in 50 years will be different" argument is just stupid. They're not going to release a patch for a game that makes it less compatible with old systems. It's conceivable that a few obscure games won't get support for a new OS, but that's a risk already inherent in every PC game.
And Steam takes up like 2-3 megs when minimized. It's not exactly a huge imposition on system resources. Needing an internet connection and running a lightweight client are more than worth the advantages of not driving to the store, fiddling with shrinkwrap, entering an insanely long key, babysitting the install process and then finding and installing the patch online.
As for the box art/ physical CD thing, I think it's mostly people who miss getting pretty and shiny things along with their game purchase, or who still associate game ownership with a box. These people just need a bit of time to adjust to the new system.
We're sidestepping the issue again.
Look, all I want is for Steam to be independent of the game itself. Other DD systems allow for this. Steam does not. Again, love DD, love that it's a requirement for MP. but leave my SP alone.
Not.An.Unreasonable.Request.
I can't make it any clearer than that and if you still don't understand why it's a valid point despite others on this thread echoing the same sentiment. (and that includes you too Drez) Then you never will. I'm out.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Again, look at it from the position of a game publisher. If you've got unlimited reinstalls that don't require a CD in the drive or an internet connection, there's a very good chance you're going to lose a good bit of income from casual piracy. Some publishers are willing to take that risk, but a lot are not. That's why so many are on board with Steam.
I didn't sidestep anything. YOU sidestepped by talking about DX10, which has nothing to do with this. DX10 is a very specific requirement for games, which is not free, and which (through Vista) directly affects games that are not specifically made to run under that OS. It's completely unlike Steam.
Your only stated reason for Valve allowing Steam to be uninstalled when you're not actively using it to download or to play online is that you just don't want it there. There's no actual reason for it not to be there.
If you had a hardcopy of Half-Life 2, and Steam never existed, chances are there would be some kind of authentication or anti-piracy files in the install, and some files that allowed for online play/functionality, which would wind up taking up some extra hard drive space once you've installed the game. The game won't run if you delete said files, even though they don't directly affect the game's inherent function. In that scenario, they're serving the same purpose that Steam is now serving on your machine in the real world. What's the difference?
sketchyblargh / Steam! / Tumblr Prime
The difference is that Steam is totally awesome.
Oh crap, yeah. I forgot about that.
Sometimes I forget how completely fucking fantastic it is to be able to download games, demos and videos at over 1MB/sec, without fail.
sketchyblargh / Steam! / Tumblr Prime
Neither have half the adamant detractors of it.
Probably. I'm sure eventually I will. I just haven't bought any games that are available on it yet.
I almost bought CS:S, but then I realized I would play it for maybe a week and then never load it again so I didn't.
And, as far as I remember, it's the physical copies that are pirated, not the ones that are downloaded over Steam.
My thoughts exactly
For real. The most you can say about Steams anti-piracy measures is that it prevents casual piracy by joe pundit giving a copy to his friend. After that, yeah it's pretty easy to find any of those games up-to-date and ready to go.
Having said that, I feel that Steams anti-piracy measure (requiring you to log in to activate the first time) is relatively benign, especially compared to the ridiculous things we've had to deal with in the past (code wheels? Starforce? OLOL).
I'll also admit that I have concerns about the fact that Steam essentially changes games from a consumable to a service, but honestly I'm not that worried about it anymore. Given my priorities in life, I can't say i'd be all that upset if 5 years from now I couldn't activate HL2 for another run around Nova Prospekt. But that's largely because I don't play as much as I used to I guess, and I figure there's always going to be something more recent to play.
I do have a problem with them not releasing a physical copy of Ep2 and Portal though. First, I've never gotten download speeds anywhere near 1mb/s on steam, and it's set up as ideally as possible.
My second point is what probably applies to a lot of people who aren't particularly fond of DD. Psychologically, if I'm going to shell out $70 (which shouldn't be quite that much with current exchange rates, but that's another matter), I want something I can physically hold in my hand to show for it. Yes, technically you're getting the exact same game either way, but it just feels harder to justify a purchase where you're only getting a file. It's similar to why I buy CDs instead of buying the songs online. The packaging is part of the overall experience.
It's great that there's also the option to buy it on Steam, and that you can re-download it from steam later, but it shouldn't be the only way.