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[PA Comic] Wednesday, November 7, 2012 - Dongles

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    All that we've been trying to say is that there's no reason Cortana needs big boobs and a perfect ass. And there's definitely no reason she needs to show them off. Video games are overwhelmingly made for the male gaze. Women are almost always pretty - ridiculously, unrealistically, nonsensically pretty. And they're dressed to show it off, no matter how ridiculous their costume ends up looking. Are you an archaeologist who also knows her way around weapons? Massive tits, perfect ass, short shorts, and eyeliner because you have to look your best for 2,000 year old mummies and pottery shards. Are you a gunnery chief in the Systems Alliance Navy? Big tits, perfect ass, form fitting armor, perfect makeup and hair. Are you a centuries old Asari Justicar with perfect control of biotics and a rigid moral code? Massive tits, perfect ass, and a form-hugging costume with a gap to show the tits some more. Are you an intergalactic bounty hunter with a suit of armor that's integral to your character and that is the source of your unique skills? Better get that armor off and slip you into a skintight jumpsuit so we can see your massive tits and perfect ass. Are you in a Street Fighter game, or a Soul Calibur game, or a Mortal Kombat game? You probably buy your clothes at the same place strippers do, although you might have to go to a tailor to get the boob part let out so that it can accommodate your oversized mammaries. Empress of the Isle of Time? Massive tits, perfect ass, 2 square feet of clothing. Sorceress from the Korcari Wilds? Big tits, perfect body, basically no shirt. Bounty hunter/mercenary? Guess you won't need body armor, let's just bare your midriff now shall we? Journalist? Blonde hair, perfect body. Literally a being of pure energy who can look like whoever you want to look like? Big tits, perfect ass, no clothes.

    I'm sure you don't see any problem with video games having these sorts of depictions of women. Maybe it's fine because the men are all idealized or because they also have lots of non-sexualized women or because all of these sexualized women are sexualized because that fits their character or because sexy women just look good and they're not being sexist they're just making pretty games or whatever. At that point I think maybe we should just talking and wait for that nice Sarkeesian lady to make her Tropes Against Women video series so we can all watch that instead of making people like me regurgitate the normal arguments because I don't really want to go through the whole rigmarole every time someone's skeptical that sexism is bad or that something is sexism..

    I'm responding to the second paragraph first. I DO have a problem with shit depictions of women in games. Partially because I want games to have good characters and writing and making every girl character terrible doesn't help with that. Partially because sexism sucks just in general. HOWEVER, I think if we're serious about this, we actually need to analyze characters on a one by one basis and not jump to conclusions like "big boobs means she's worthless and she was only designed for sex appeal." Nobody should have to explain to you that it's a different kind of sexism (or is it just the normal kind...) to be completely dismissive of a woman because she's pretty, even in the most stereotypical way.

    Now your examples:
    -Lara Croft was for sure designed as a sex symbol first, character 10 years later. It seems they're putting a lot more work into her these days, so let's give that a chance.
    -To be fair to Ashley, Specters very well might be advised to look attractive depending on what they're doing. If her jobs end up being more along the lines of talky talky than shooty shooty, an attractive hairstyle and outfit (that still has barriers for gunfire) might be a savvy choice. As far as intention? Yeah, they were trying to show off their graphics engine with new hotness and went too far in some areas. High heels should NEVER be a shoe choice for a frontline combat soldier. Boots look nice anyway, shit is dumb...
    -I think they might have gone with "large cans" as an Asari class feature. Also, no slut shaming is another class talent. If you started your life dancing or singing or stripping or whatever (not every Asari does this, important note, just it is common), you would probably find her outfit pretty normal/modest. Also, her defense comes from her biotic abilities AND she doesn't fear death to the point of being accurately characterized as suicidal, so a bulky armor wouldn't make sense for her.
    -Other M is the worst Nintendo game since the NES. Sadly it's not even Team Ninja's fault, the creator was behind most of the crap there.
    -And this sort of thing has born out a culture of women hating and toxic behaviors in the fighting scene. Hopefully all the recent press will help fight against that.
    -Kaileena was one of many examples of the wrong headedness present in the PoP team for Warrior Within. Other than base gameplay, nearly EVERY decision was wrong for that game.
    -Rubi wore an appriopriate outfit for the game and genre actually. A tank top, jacket, and jeans/shorts are offensive now? Ease off the Saudi Arabia please.
    -Finally, HA. Yeah how completely unrealistic that a television news/feature lady would be very attractive and fit. OH WAIT. I don't think you get to complain about accurate portrayals of things...

    shoeboxjeddy on
  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Shoemaker wrote: »
    Rokiyo wrote: »
    The answer is in making sure there is beefcake for females and to represent female characters in other roles that don't require them to be in perfect shape.
    While I agree completely with your statements, I believe TychoCelchuuu is arguing this to be a case of "false equivalence".

    Long story short, the theory goes that men design sexy females in video games because that is what they fantasise women to be, and that men design beefcake males in video games because that is what they fantasise themselves to be. Other factors such as some women being attracted to muscular men, some women being attracted to curvy women, some real world women having more athletic and/or curvy bodies than the fictitious Cortana, and some video game art design teams being comprised of both men and women are all considered to be irrelevant.

    All software developers are male, all males are incapable of perceiving women as more than biological masturbatory aids, etc etc.

    The beefcake men really aren't there for the ladies.

    If developer were to design male characters to please women (akin to video game females being designed to please men), we'd have every male character end up like the men from Twilight. Maybe in the next Gears of War it can be Edward and Jacob rather than Marcus and Dom.

    Now imagine if 95% of video game men were just like the twilight boys and you can start to see our problem with the 95% of female characters being nothing but eye candy.

    Sexy ain't a bad thing but when it's the only defining attribute of a character you run into a problem.

    To be clear, there's an easy Mass Effect parallel there (sorta)

    James Vega is a beefcake, and he's too human to be a male power fantasy but in the context of Mass Effect he fills that role

    Thane and Kaidan and Garrus are what the ladies find dreamy, depending on who you ask

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Shoemaker wrote: »
    Rokiyo wrote: »
    The answer is in making sure there is beefcake for females and to represent female characters in other roles that don't require them to be in perfect shape.
    While I agree completely with your statements, I believe TychoCelchuuu is arguing this to be a case of "false equivalence".

    Long story short, the theory goes that men design sexy females in video games because that is what they fantasise women to be, and that men design beefcake males in video games because that is what they fantasise themselves to be. Other factors such as some women being attracted to muscular men, some women being attracted to curvy women, some real world women having more athletic and/or curvy bodies than the fictitious Cortana, and some video game art design teams being comprised of both men and women are all considered to be irrelevant.

    All software developers are male, all males are incapable of perceiving women as more than biological masturbatory aids, etc etc.

    The beefcake men really aren't there for the ladies.

    If developer were to design male characters to please women (akin to video game females being designed to please men), we'd have every male character end up like the men from Twilight. Maybe in the next Gears of War it can be Edward and Jacob rather than Marcus and Dom.

    Now imagine if 95% of video game men were just like the twilight boys and you can start to see our problem with the 95% of female characters being nothing but eye candy.

    Sexy ain't a bad thing but when it's the only defining attribute of a character you run into a problem.

    To be clear, there's an easy Mass Effect parallel there (sorta)

    James Vega is a beefcake, and he's too human to be a male power fantasy but in the context of Mass Effect he fills that role

    Thane and Kaidan and Garrus are what the ladies find dreamy, depending on who you ask

    2/3 of those are a lizard and a bird. At least the Asari look like humans with a funny hairstyle. Is any guy lusting after the Salarian matriarch?

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  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    All I know is that if I could choose how I looked, women would never dream of Ryan Gosling or Daniel Craig.

    Also this is one of my favorite comics. The look on Cortana's face is just perfect.

  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Cortana is an AI who can choose to look however she wants.

    I would choose to look like whatever women find most attractive. I assume Cortana would do the same. Why is this an issue?

    Outside of the lore and into reality...

    I've never remotely grasped the concept behind this "argument." Its wrong to deliver the most enjoyable product to your customer base? Men like sexy women. Men buy video games. Put sexy women in video games. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with this to me.

    Should porn not have sexy women in it?

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  • XagarXagar Registered User regular
    I think the idea is that this medium should rise above direct pandering (which I'm not saying Cortana is) into art.

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