Due to a security update, you may have to reset your password. Don’t panic, nothing has gone wrong and your password is safe. If you don’t have access to that email, send Tube a message at [email protected] More info here: https://status.vanillaforums.com/incidents/2zdqxf3bt7mj
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.

Prog and other unlistenable music

123457»

Posts

  • The CheeseThe Cheese Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Sean Reinert. He played on Human, and yes he is fantastic. Death had pretty ridiculous drummers in general...Gene Hoglan and Richard Christy.

    The Cheese on
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Tool also has one of the best drummers in the world at any given time. He's the stuff legends are made out of.

    I see your tool drummer and raise you mastodon's drummer

    raaaaaar

    I like Mastodons drummer a lot.

    But no... Danny Carey is incredible. I can think of like... 2 or 3 drummers that match up to the guy that are still alive, and like 5 of all time.

    (Ken Schalk, Tom Zinsor, and Carter Beauford come to mind)

    You forgot Mike Portnoy.

    All those names are incredible, though.

    One of the biggest problems with "Everyday" was the muted de-emphasis of Beauford.

    I feel that Portnoy lacks in a few areas as a drummer. Most noticeably his feel and groove. The main problem is he seems to lack the ability to do anything in a wierd feel without explicity stating whats going on. When he plays, all I hear is
    HAY GUYS LOOK WERE IN SEVEN, TWO THREE FOUR FIVE SIX SEVEN ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE SIX SEVEN ONE etc etc etc.

    Virgil can mess with your mind because he can be seemless with what he's doing alot of the time. Even if I dislike his playing and the music he plays.

    And Carey is smooth like butter.

    The guy I do like who has chops was the Cynic drummer that played with Death on ... Individual Thought Patterns? Or the album before, he had chops and taste.

    But that is just my musical opinion.

    Yes, Portnoy is nowhere near the others in terms of feel, just in terms of technical ability. Like most of DT. He just gets an honorable mention because he's a goddamned robot. The dude can sustain double bass notes until the earth gets burned up by the sun's red giant phase.

    MikeMan on
    HOW DO YOU FUCK UP BAGELS. YOU BOIL THE WATER. PUT IN THE NOODLES
  • UndefinedMonkeyUndefinedMonkey Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Gene "The Atomic Clock" Hoglan of S.Y.L. is like that.

    UndefinedMonkey on
    This space intentionally left blank.
  • darklite_xdarklite_x I'm not an r-tard... Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    What's with all the tool hate on the PA boards? I can understand how some people can hate Tool fans, but I don't know how people can actually hate Tool's music. I think it's very melodic and the lyrics often hit home for me. In any case, someone posted something on page 5 saying how this is a stupid thread, and I agree.

    darklite_x on
    Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
  • UndefinedMonkeyUndefinedMonkey Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Yes, which is why we're discussing awesome drummers now.

    I remember Buddy Rich and Animal doing a skit on the Muppet Show a long time ago... it was hilarious.

    UndefinedMonkey on
    This space intentionally left blank.
  • The CheeseThe Cheese Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    darklite_x wrote: »
    but I don't know how people can actually hate Tool's music

    I thought you said you understood why people could hate Tool fans?

    The Cheese on
  • Lord Of The PantsLord Of The Pants Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Yes, which is why we're discussing awesome drummers now.

    I remember Buddy Rich and Animal doing a skit on the Muppet Show a long time ago... it was hilarious.

    I went to a lecture on Buddy Rich...the Animal sketch was given an honorable mention. :)

    Lord Of The Pants on
    steam_sig.png
  • Bob The MonkeyBob The Monkey Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    VishNub wrote: »
    Fucking beatles. It's an OK song. Like most of their songs, it's not BAD. It's even pretty good, but it's not the best thing in the history of ever.

    I would love to type the sound of my brain and soul vomiting in unison

    but

    I do not know what that sound would be

    Bob The Monkey on
  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    VishNub wrote: »
    Fucking beatles. It's an OK song. Like most of their songs, it's not BAD. It's even pretty good, but it's not the best thing in the history of ever.

    I would love to type the sound of my brain and soul vomiting in unison

    but

    I do not know what that sound would be

    I'm not sure that what I said -- "it's not the best thing in the history of ever" -- deserves that reaction, even from Beatles fanboys. But whatevs. Maybe I've just heard it too many times.

    VishNub on
    Steam = VishnuOwnz
    Dota2 = Glitchmo
  • Rabid_LlamaRabid_Llama Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Just got back from a Dream Theater concert. John Petrucci played many a masturbatory guitar solo and it was fucking awesome.

    Rabid_Llama on
    /sig
    The+Rabid+Llama.png
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Just got back from a Dream Theater concert. John Petrucci played many a masturbatory guitar solo and it was fucking awesome.

    Fuck yeah.

    I saw em at Beacon Theater in NYC a couple years back. Fuckin awesome.

    MikeMan on
    HOW DO YOU FUCK UP BAGELS. YOU BOIL THE WATER. PUT IN THE NOODLES
  • Rabid_LlamaRabid_Llama Registered User
    edited August 2007
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Just got back from a Dream Theater concert. John Petrucci played many a masturbatory guitar solo and it was fucking awesome.

    Fuck yeah.

    I saw em at Beacon Theater in NYC a couple years back. Fuckin awesome.

    They played an amazing set. My girlfriend and I had backstage passes and we both got autographs. Our seats were on the second row and at the very end during the encore they let the front couple rows go right up to the stage. Unfortunately for us, someone saw that as the ideal time to steal our autographed programs ($20 each).

    At first I was really angry but now I am just bummed out. At least we got to meet them. The experience was what really counted I guess.

    I'd still like to strangle the mother fucker who stole them though.

    Rabid_Llama on
    /sig
    The+Rabid+Llama.png
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Just got back from a Dream Theater concert. John Petrucci played many a masturbatory guitar solo and it was fucking awesome.

    Fuck yeah.

    I saw em at Beacon Theater in NYC a couple years back. Fuckin awesome.

    I saw the show where they first played 6DoIT in its entirety (Denver, 2002). It was an amazing show and it was over 3 hours long. No opening band.

    Marty81 on
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Marty81 wrote: »
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Just got back from a Dream Theater concert. John Petrucci played many a masturbatory guitar solo and it was fucking awesome.

    Fuck yeah.

    I saw em at Beacon Theater in NYC a couple years back. Fuckin awesome.

    I saw the show when they first played 6DoIT in its entirety (Denver, 2002). It was an amazing show and it was over 3 hours long. No opening band.

    Awesome. :)

    At the end of the 6 degrees tour (the same one that you saw) in NYC, they played Master of Puppets, in its entirety, as an encore.

    I love Dream Theater.

    MikeMan on
    HOW DO YOU FUCK UP BAGELS. YOU BOIL THE WATER. PUT IN THE NOODLES
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Just got back from a Dream Theater concert. John Petrucci played many a masturbatory guitar solo and it was fucking awesome.

    Fuck yeah.

    I saw em at Beacon Theater in NYC a couple years back. Fuckin awesome.

    I saw the show when they first played 6DoIT in its entirety (Denver, 2002). It was an amazing show and it was over 3 hours long. No opening band.

    Awesome. :)

    At the end of the 6 degrees tour (the same one that you saw) in NYC, they played Master of Puppets, in its entirety, as an encore.

    I love Dream Theater.

    I know. I'm so jealous of everyone who got to see that. Was there ever an official recording of that released?

    Marty81 on
  • The CheeseThe Cheese Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Yes. LaBrie makes a mess out of it.

    Not as bad as the Number of the Beast, though.

    The Cheese on
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Marty81 wrote: »
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Just got back from a Dream Theater concert. John Petrucci played many a masturbatory guitar solo and it was fucking awesome.

    Fuck yeah.

    I saw em at Beacon Theater in NYC a couple years back. Fuckin awesome.

    I saw the show when they first played 6DoIT in its entirety (Denver, 2002). It was an amazing show and it was over 3 hours long. No opening band.

    Awesome. :)

    At the end of the 6 degrees tour (the same one that you saw) in NYC, they played Master of Puppets, in its entirety, as an encore.

    I love Dream Theater.

    I know. I'm so jealous of everyone who got to see that. Was there ever an official recording of that released?

    I'm not sure. I don't even know if they did it both nights at the Beacon, or just the night I was there.

    It was amazing.

    MikeMan on
    HOW DO YOU FUCK UP BAGELS. YOU BOIL THE WATER. PUT IN THE NOODLES
  • The CheeseThe Cheese Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Am I the only person who thinks Petrucci is a really dull player? I saw the last G3 tour and Satch and Gilbert totally blew him away. His bag of tricks is really limited.

    The Cheese on
  • Rabid_LlamaRabid_Llama Registered User
    edited August 2007
    The Cheese wrote: »
    Am I the only person who thinks Petrucci is a really dull player? I saw the last G3 tour and Satch and Gilbert totally blew him away. His bag of tricks is really limited.

    After seeing him last night, I just have to flat out disagree.

    Rabid_Llama on
    /sig
    The+Rabid+Llama.png
  • XenosX_XenosX_ Registered User
    edited August 2007
    The Cheese wrote: »
    Am I the only person who thinks Petrucci is a really dull player? I saw the last G3 tour and Satch and Gilbert totally blew him away. His bag of tricks is really limited.

    Gilbert > Satch >>>>>> Petrucci. Absolutely right on.

    Still, I see a lot of progressive rock 'masters' today, and it seems like all of them are just shredding, and there's a lot more to progressive music than just that. Sure, if you take a single scale and find every possible permutation of thirty-second notes and play it, it might be 'mind-blowingly' technically, but take a look at some musicians like John McLaughlin or Robert Fripp, who I think really stand alone with respect to musical ingenuity.

    One thing John McLaughlin did a whole lot was play a little with bending into microtones, often playing past the note to give an exaggerated or 'out of control' feel. He did his fair share of 'shredding', but a lot of it was extremely well done, and completely different than modern-prog shredding. If you took a John McLaughlin solo versus a John Petrucci solo, and slowed them both down so that a 32nd note was an 8th note, the Petrucci solo would be boring as shit, and the McLaughlin solo would still kick ass. Between the subtlety of vibrato and bending, and lots of passing tones used in particularly interesting ways, it's hard to find someone as good as McLaughlin.

    Robert Fripp also exemplified the 'sophisticated shredder' of progressive 70's music, and stuff like 'Larks' Tongues in Aspic' is the cream of the crop for 12-tone influenced modal improvisation. Even though there is no set scale for the guitar solo halfway through the first song, it traces patterns which, while being dissonant, make sense in the midst of where the song 'has been'.

    As for all the Tool hate, I'm sort of a Tool fan, but I gotta say that I only really like their last two albums. Some songs I thought were utter shite too, like that entire 'Wings for Marie' thing from 10,000 Days. One of their damning characteristics, for me at least, is the fact that they use the same key for every fucking song... also, some other songs really feel like they're trying to be progressive, instead of just playing what they think is good. Case in point, the middle and ending parts of Rosetta stoned and meandering shit like Triad. Also, stuff like Eon Blue Apocalypse, Mantra, Faaip de Oiad, Lipan Conjuring, and Viginti Tres really piss me off. At least the Mars Volta has the courtesy to make their ambient bullshit interesting.

    Don't get me wrong, I fucking love the Mars Volta. I give Omar the buttsecks all the time, dontcha know...

    XenosX_ on
  • CptKemzikCptKemzik Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I agree Petrucci is on the dull side with DT's post SfaM material, but prior to that album and with Scenes I think he was very dynamic.

    CptKemzik on
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    The worst part of recent Tool has been there Volta-esque, random pops and clicks and mood chords bullshit.

    I don't care how deep you think you are, guys, give me a fucking composed song with riffs. Jeebus.

    It's like I spent 20 bucks on 10,000 days and 10 dollars of that is paying to hear random bass guitar strums for 5 minutes of intro.

    MikeMan on
    HOW DO YOU FUCK UP BAGELS. YOU BOIL THE WATER. PUT IN THE NOODLES
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Pretty muhc all of Tools stuff from Aenima on have the same musical layout. It's a good layout andmakes a good sound but it does have a certain sameness to it after a while

    nexuscrawler on
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    XenosX_ wrote: »
    Still, I see a lot of progressive rock 'masters' today, and it seems like all of them are just shredding, and there's a lot more to progressive music than just that.

    I would tend to agree. One of the reasons I like the prog that I listen to is because it's complex, but without being overly "shreddy." I'll quote a post from earlier in the thread that puts it eloquently.
    Some of my favorite albums are the ones that I can listen to years from now and still hear the occasional new sound I hadn't noticed before, or get into a particular part of a large chorus that I ignored previously. Complex music kind of "blooms" over time to my ears this way, whereas simpler-structured poppy stuff becomes ripe and rotten sooner than it should.

    The prog I enjoy has many things going on at once. The individual parts might not be overly technical (though still harder to play than the average pop song), but they're layered and explored in such a way as to make the overall piece full and fun to listen to for years to come. I think I like more classically-influenced prog for this reason, rather than modern prog-shred-metal.

    If I can take 10 minutes of your time, I'd like to show you a few songs by Pain of Salvation, one of my favorite prog bands. I'd love for them to get some more exposure. Btw, do NOT click on these links if you don't intend to sit through them, as you can't judge either song without listening to the whole thing. Come to think of it, that's another reason I like the prog I listen to: there's a real sense of evolution and musical exploration from the beginning of a song to its end. No verse>chorus>verse>chorus>solo>chorus>end (where the last chorus is exactly the same as the first) here!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvae5Lt0smI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxLaf3y6sDA

    Marty81 on
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Sorry mate, I clicked it fully intending to listen to all of it, but yeah, lasted about 20 seconds of the first clip and started listening to Led Zep.

    evilbob on
    DDLLLLDL - Bottom in November
    WWDWDWWWWDWWWWLDWWW - Premiers in April
    WW - Champions in May

  • The CheeseThe Cheese Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    CptKemzik wrote: »
    I agree Petrucci is on the dull side with DT's post SfaM material, but prior to that album and with Scenes I think he was very dynamic.

    He was much more interesting on Awake and Images & Words, I totally agree.

    The Cheese on
  • ShoggothShoggoth Registered User
    edited August 2007
    That whole water shit on stage thing was incredibly stupid.

    Surprise Bouzouki! What the hell is he playing in that second clip?

    Shoggoth on
    11tu0w1.jpg
  • Original RufusOriginal Rufus Registered User
    edited August 2007
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Just got back from a Dream Theater concert. John Petrucci played many a masturbatory guitar solo and it was fucking awesome.

    Fuck yeah.

    I saw em at Beacon Theater in NYC a couple years back. Fuckin awesome.

    I've seen DT a couple times.

    I was actually a little disappointed insofar as the fact that...they really sound like their studio material. They were technically brilliant of course, but each time I wished for a bit more warmth and energy from the band. Maybe even a surprise or two.

    As it was, we got carbon copies of each studio piece. That they can recreate everything with precision onstage is to their credit, but I'll admit to feeling a little bored.

    Original Rufus on
  • SnorkSnork Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    MikeMan wrote: »
    The worst part of recent Tool has been there Volta-esque, random pops and clicks and mood chords bullshit.

    I don't care how deep you think you are, guys, give me a fucking composed song with riffs. Jeebus.

    It's like I spent 20 bucks on 10,000 days and 10 dollars of that is paying to hear random bass guitar strums for 5 minutes of intro.

    It's funny you mention that because Omar probably does compose every single second of ambient ear-wanking on Mars Volta albums.

    Not that that makes all of it okay.

    4 minutes of church bells does not count as an intro to a song.

    And I love The Mars Volta.

    Snork on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    You can get away with a little of that. Like the clocks as an intro to Dark Side of The Moon. but Mars Volta just pushes it too far. It's to the point when i listen to them I fast forward through the first 4 minutes and last 4 minutes of half the songs. Cuz there's a good song there surrounded by like 5 minutes of nonsense on either end.

    nexuscrawler on
  • SnorkSnork Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I used to hate on the ambience on Frances the mute a whole lot, then I listened to the entire coqui intro to Miranda when I was really paying attention to it one day, and realised that once the actual ambience starts kicking in and it's more than just chirping, it is a fucking good intro.

    I still hate the church bells on FTM though.

    Snork on
  • SuperunknownSuperunknown Registered User
    edited August 2007
    I loved the Ambience on Frances the Mute heaps and it hurts me that he cut down on it so much on Amputechture. But then again I love Godspeed You! Black Emperor a whole heap so that may help with my patience for that sort of composition.

    Superunknown on
    [size=+7]GIANT FUCKING SIGNATURE[/size]
Sign In or Register to comment.