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Clingy/Controlling girlfriend

24567

Posts

  • Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    edited December 2012
    You need to renormalize. Call your friends and apologize for any bullshit you might have put them through. Ask if you can crash with them for a while.

    Edith Upwards on
  • KyligulaKyligula lord of cardboard Registered User regular
    This situation you're in sounds psychologically destructive and totally unsustainable. You're clearly not happy -- if you were, you wouldn't be seeking guidance. It sounds like you're looking for some way to "fix" the relationship and you may want to ignore people telling you to just cut and run because you might feel like it's not as bad as it seems, or that she's worth it, or that you really are mostly happy, or that strangers don't have all the information and don't understand. Some of the people posting have lived through this kind of stuff, they do understand. My advice to you is to take their advice.

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited December 2012
    Usagi wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Ceres has seen some shit man.

    Unfortunately.. I have. And my relationship was totally fine when he wasn't upset, I just had to be very, very careful not to make him upset, and it was all good. And then after a while he would get upset even if I thought I'd done everything right that day, and so I would spend time trying to figure out what I did wrong. None of that really began until after I'd started living with the guy, though, and then it was a lot harder to get out of. And then after a while it wasn't just him hating all my friends anymore (especially the male ones, who were all trying to sleep with me in his head, but he had terrible things to say about my female friends as well, and he never outright said "don't see them", he was just impossible when I did), I wasn't to talk to our mutual friends either, because I might say something and then they'd think badly of him. He would read my chat logs until I figured it out and hid them. And then it wasn't just that anymore. But you get used to things, in stages like that.

    Yes, this, all of this, been there and god that was an awful time in my life

    Five years after getting out of that relationship I am still dealing with the mental fallout, and probably will be for the rest of my life

    In my relationship, that sort of abuse eventually stopped confining itself to the emotional, even though I know he probably didn't see it that way. And the fact that I still, in my head and out loud, can add that disclaimer to the above statements is a pretty good sign that I am still fucked up about it. I pretty much lied my way out of it because I was scared to do otherwise, and I felt terrible about doing that to someone for a really long time. It can affect you in ways you may not figure out for years. So if you can't fix this, therapy is really not a bad idea.

    And you think, "it's not abuse if they aren't hitting you." My ex never made a fist and punched me with it, that is true. In fact, he told me about how lucky I was to have him because he didn't hit me. "I suppose," I thought to myself, "there is some truth to that." And there is always someone worse off. The thing is, that's not really solid ground on which to stay in a relationship, and it also probably is not an indicator that the abuse never got physical. (Hint: It really did. Years of therapy later I can say with a small degree of confidence that violence does not require a fist or a boot or a weapon. Only small, though.) The emotional was definitely there; by the time it was over I doubted my right to reality.

    That doesn't mean it's appropriate to project my relationship onto yours, OP, and really, I know you love her. But do yourself a favor and decide what seems reasonable to you, and then put your line in the sand there. It takes a lot of courage to do that, but it's necessary to your health. It is really important that you take a step back and do this.

    And also log out of this site when she comes over, she may go through your browsing history when you aren't looking. :P

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    EsseeJaysonFourUsagi
  • Zombie NirvanaZombie Nirvana Registered User regular
    Emotional abuse is much more dangerous imo, mainly because he doesn't live in reality right now. Just as you didn't, Ceres. I don't think you're projecting anything, this woman is broken emotionally and probably needs about a decade of therapy herself.

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    My problem with this advice is not the first part, which sounds somewhat reasonable to me, but the second, which you even note is dishonest. It is as emotionally manipulative as what his girlfriend is currently doing, and if you have to spend your relationship trying to out-manipulate the other person... it's just a poor situation to be in. If it were to come to this, I do not think it's worth it, not only from a mental energy standpoint, but also because he will really have to sink to her level. It's not a good pattern to start. Very few first relationships are "only relationships," and this isn't a way of thinking you want to bring into your next one.

    I beg your pardon, but I noted no such thing. I specifically reaffirmed that the advice I offered was based on being absolutely honest. Dishonest is what he's doing now, which is letting her think that this shit is OK because he'll do what she wants. You'll also note that I flatly advised ending the relationship, and then offered my view on the only way it could possibly work IF he was dead set on keeping it going.

    There's nothing "dishonest" or "manipulative" about advising the OP to be telling this girl that one or another he's not going to be taking her shit any more. Where is the manipulation in drawing clear boundaries about what is acceptable behaviour in their relationship? That's the opposite of manipluation!

    The simplest (and IMO as well as yours best) way for him to not be taking her shit any more is obviously to cut her out of his life. But the fact is that we don't know her, we don't know him, and he might decide that she's worth making the effort to be more assertive than she is. In which case there is the second alternative part of my advice. I agree with you that it doesn't paint a particularly attractive picture of the potential of the relationship (I personally wouldn't want one based on that), but in the end that's for the OP to judge if he wants that or not. And of course the girl.

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    V1m wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    My problem with this advice is not the first part, which sounds somewhat reasonable to me, but the second, which you even note is dishonest. It is as emotionally manipulative as what his girlfriend is currently doing, and if you have to spend your relationship trying to out-manipulate the other person... it's just a poor situation to be in. If it were to come to this, I do not think it's worth it, not only from a mental energy standpoint, but also because he will really have to sink to her level. It's not a good pattern to start. Very few first relationships are "only relationships," and this isn't a way of thinking you want to bring into your next one.

    I beg your pardon, but I noted no such thing. I specifically reaffirmed that the advice I offered was based on being absolutely honest. Dishonest is what he's doing now, which is letting her think that this shit is OK because he'll do what she wants. You'll also note that I flatly advised ending the relationship, and then offered my view on the only way it could possibly work IF he was dead set on keeping it going.

    There's nothing "dishonest" or "manipulative" about advising the OP to be telling this girl that one or another he's not going to be taking her shit any more. Where is the manipulation in drawing clear boundaries about what is acceptable behaviour in their relationship? That's the opposite of manipluation!

    The simplest (and IMO as well as yours best) way for him to not be taking her shit any more is obviously to cut her out of his life. But the fact is that we don't know her, we don't know him, and he might decide that she's worth making the effort to be more assertive than she is. In which case there is the second alternative part of my advice. I agree with you that it doesn't paint a particularly attractive picture of the potential of the relationship (I personally wouldn't want one based on that), but in the end that's for the OP to judge if he wants that or not. And of course the girl.

    Reading through with this perspective, I see what you're saying. In the original post we're referring to, the way it's worded really makes it seem even on a few read-throughs like you're talking about some sort of dominance play (hard-to-get, or whatever). No matter how many times I read through it, that's what I came back with. From the perspective of "don't talk to her till you know you can do it with a straight head," it makes a lot more sense, as does the note about honesty.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited December 2012
    Emotional abuse is much more dangerous imo, mainly because he doesn't live in reality right now. Just as you didn't, Ceres. I don't think you're projecting anything, this woman is broken emotionally and probably needs about a decade of therapy herself.

    The reason it's more dangerous, to add to this, is because you are changing processes of mind. If you change the way you think you are changing self. Slapping the shit out of someone doesn't really change how they think, it just hurts them (other than making them hate you, but it doesn't really make them support you). Emotionally abusive, while less scarring, is the most dangerous thing to allow to happen to ones self. If OP or anyone is in one of them they should leave immediately.

    Everyone and anyone worth their salt will help you if you ask. But you have to ask. As someone who's had both myself and a friend, trust me we can see you changing. We want to help you but it's really not our place to tell you how to live your life. Luckily for me I ended an abusive relationship before much happened (I don't remember much of it since I'm old now -- thank goodness I hate dealing with assholes).

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    Namrok
  • InxInx Registered User regular
    Just to chime in once more, as a guy who was in an abusive relationship with a woman that DID eventually become physical.

    Just because you're a man and she's a woman, and she's half your weight and a head shorter than you, doesn't mean she can't do a good bit of physical harm. If she's mad enough and crazy enough, she's not going to just slap you or punch you, she's going to bite you, she's going to try and claw/gouge your eyes out, or if nothing she can do hurts or scares you she will find an object nearby that will. You'll find yourself in one of the most difficult positions you can - do I, as a man, defend myself? Against a woman? The woman I love?

    And that determines where it goes next. If you defend yourself, like in any physical altercation, you either end it fast or it escalates even higher.

    I did a -lot- of things I'm not proud of and that I don't like to talk about. Even people who understand how bad that relationship was, who were there to see her slap me so hard she broke my glasses for making a joke she didn't like have given me a verrrry nasty look when I mention that I defended myself. And I never struck her. Anytime she got physical I would pin her, or shove her. That usually stopped it.

    And then it still escalated.

    There's one thing about that relationship that I've never told anyone and in fact am terrified to mention here. This is something I haven't even felt comfortable telling my therapist yet, and in fact something I've been lying to myself about for a long time. But it makes a point here. Her poison absolutely WILL get into you, and WILL change you. You'll digest it and it will become a small part of you, a little ticking timebomb just waiting for the right moment.

    Cuz you see, one night she wrecked up some of my stuff, and in a fury I strangled her. Not to death or unconsciousness, but enough for it to count.

    DumpShockadmanbCambiata
  • NamrokNamrok Registered User regular
    @Inx That really is the kicker too. As soon as all their abuse finally gets to you, and you respond in kind, because you've been trained like an animal to speak that language, everyone looks at you like she was right to abuse you all along. You monster.

    DumpShockEdith UpwardsCambiata
  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    I'm going to be a bit more... understanding than the other posters and suggest at least some attempt at salvage as a...what's the word, cordiality? I'd suggest sending her this thread instead of visiting this weekend to see how she reacts to the entire internet thinking she's a crazy bitch.
    Additionally, I recommend couple's therapy, if only to connect her to a mental health professional before you bail. She needs help, if not the men in white coats.

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Bagginses wrote: »
    I'm going to be a bit more... understanding than the other posters and suggest at least some attempt at salvage as a...what's the word, cordiality? I'd suggest sending her this thread instead of visiting this weekend to see how she reacts to the entire internet thinking she's a crazy bitch.
    Additionally, I recommend couple's therapy, if only to connect her to a mental health professional before you bail. She needs help, if not the men in white coats.

    Worst idea ever. If she sees the thread it is likely not going to be pretty.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    MetalbourneEsseeNightDragonToxInxWassermeloneAl_watUsagiDrakeonGonmunzagdrobV1mbowenCalicaEdith UpwardsMKRlonelyahavaCambiataYaYa
  • iRevertiRevert Tactical Martha Stewart Registered User regular
    edited December 2012
    ceres wrote: »

    Worst idea ever. If she sees the thread it is likely not going to be pretty.

    Plus uno on that.

    Not to mention that it won't accomplish shit, think about it if someone told you there was a thread on the internet about you and you looked at it and it was overwhelmingly negative how would you feel?

    And I mean lets be realistic, she would get defensive and reflect everything back at the OP spinning it to be his fault and not hers. It would serve no purpose except creating a bigger shitstorm then what already exists.

    iRevert on
    EsseeNightDragonInxUsagizagdrobEdith Upwards
  • Indica1Indica1 Registered User regular
    While reading this it makes me realize what an asshole I am, every time I see a man in a situation like this, even a close friend, I just blame the man for not being masculine enough. It never really occurred to be that it was an abusive relationship.

    but seeing how far it can get once all the people who will stick up for the abused person aren't around anymore makes me feel pretty guilty.


    If the president had any real power, he'd be able to live wherever the fuck he wanted.
  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    iRevert wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »

    Worst idea ever. If she sees the thread it is likely not going to be pretty.

    Plus uno on that.

    Not to mention that it won't accomplish shit, think about it if someone told you there was a thread on the internet about you and you looked at it and it was overwhelmingly negative how would you feel?

    And I mean lets be realistic, she would get defensive and reflect everything back at the OP spinning it to be his fault and not hers. It would serve no purpose except creating a bigger shitstorm then what already exists.

    In which case she'd never see him again. My plan is basically giving her the courtesy of an ultimatum.

  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Bagginses wrote: »
    iRevert wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »

    Worst idea ever. If she sees the thread it is likely not going to be pretty.

    Plus uno on that.

    Not to mention that it won't accomplish shit, think about it if someone told you there was a thread on the internet about you and you looked at it and it was overwhelmingly negative how would you feel?

    And I mean lets be realistic, she would get defensive and reflect everything back at the OP spinning it to be his fault and not hers. It would serve no purpose except creating a bigger shitstorm then what already exists.

    In which case she'd never see him again. My plan is basically giving her the courtesy of an ultimatum.

    Your plan is bad. And you should feel bad.

    Cambiata
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited December 2012
    Bagginses wrote: »
    iRevert wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »

    Worst idea ever. If she sees the thread it is likely not going to be pretty.

    Plus uno on that.

    Not to mention that it won't accomplish shit, think about it if someone told you there was a thread on the internet about you and you looked at it and it was overwhelmingly negative how would you feel?

    And I mean lets be realistic, she would get defensive and reflect everything back at the OP spinning it to be his fault and not hers. It would serve no purpose except creating a bigger shitstorm then what already exists.

    In which case she'd never see him again. My plan is basically giving her the courtesy of an ultimatum.

    No, it is inciting an incident and inviting that incident onto this forum. If I see you in this thread or peddling similar advice to invite trouble here again I will ban you.

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • InxInx Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote: »

    In which case she'd never see him again. My plan is basically giving her the courtesy of an ultimatum.

    What ceres said, only this is the kind of thing that would push her from where she's at to actual violence.

  • NamrokNamrok Registered User regular
    Indica1 wrote: »
    While reading this it makes me realize what an asshole I am, every time I see a man in a situation like this, even a close friend, I just blame the man for not being masculine enough. It never really occurred to be that it was an abusive relationship.

    but seeing how far it can get once all the people who will stick up for the abused person aren't around anymore makes me feel pretty guilty.

    Yeah. You don't see that much here, but we aren't exactly the best sample for things like that. That was my experience as well. In fact, I had pretty much a single female friend who thought my ex's behavior towards me was straight up abusive. There's this huge perception at large that women can't be abusive, and men can't be abused. Full stop. And in my case, it even took therapy to help me realize that I was in fact being abused, even if I am a man.

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    I do not like to see it here.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • Paper MonitorPaper Monitor Registered User regular
    Hey guys. Thanks for all the replies. Before I posted this, I expected most of the advice to be "break up with her", so not too surprised.

    To address some of the other comments/questions:

    We have been together for over a year.

    She is currently in therapy, but for Borderline Personality Disorder, not abusive behavior. Her therapy and meds have helped reduce her angry/violent behavior, but not her controlling aspects. I do not believe her therapist knows how bad she is in that regard, and from what she tells me, she usually blames fights on me to her therapist.

    I have told her before that I feel she is abusive, she just says I'm too sensitive, and that the online abuse guidelines are too broad in defining abuse.

    As for the masculinity thing, I have definitely run into that. Any friendor family that I tell about her just calls me "hen-pecked" or says I need to put my foot down.

    I think I let her do this to me because I have low self-esteem. Not without good reason though. I'm 25, live with my parents, work as a jaNitor, am overweight, and not especially smart or funny. So...that doesn't help.

    And yes, I am remembering to log out after I post, and only post from a computer with incognito, or from my phone at work.

  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    Hey guys. Thanks for all the replies. Before I posted this, I expected most of the advice to be "break up with her", so not too surprised.

    To address some of the other comments/questions:

    We have been together for over a year.

    She is currently in therapy, but for Borderline Personality Disorder, not abusive behavior. Her therapy and meds have helped reduce her angry/violent behavior, but not her controlling aspects. I do not believe her therapist knows how bad she is in that regard, and from what she tells me, she usually blames fights on me to her therapist.

    I have told her before that I feel she is abusive, she just says I'm too sensitive, and that the online abuse guidelines are too broad in defining abuse.

    As for the masculinity thing, I have definitely run into that. Any friendor family that I tell about her just calls me "hen-pecked" or says I need to put my foot down.

    I think I let her do this to me because I have low self-esteem. Not without good reason though. I'm 25, live with my parents, work as a jaNitor, am overweight, and not especially smart or funny. So...that doesn't help.

    And yes, I am remembering to log out after I post, and only post from a computer with incognito, or from my phone at work.

    Whether you break up with her or not, you should definitely let her therapist know about this shit, and likely find one yourself.

    Cambiata
  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Hey guys. Thanks for all the replies. Before I posted this, I expected most of the advice to be "break up with her", so not too surprised.

    To address some of the other comments/questions:

    We have been together for over a year.

    She is currently in therapy, but for Borderline Personality Disorder, not abusive behavior. Her therapy and meds have helped reduce her angry/violent behavior, but not her controlling aspects. I do not believe her therapist knows how bad she is in that regard, and from what she tells me, she usually blames fights on me to her therapist.

    I have told her before that I feel she is abusive, she just says I'm too sensitive, and that the online abuse guidelines are too broad in defining abuse.

    As for the masculinity thing, I have definitely run into that. Any friendor family that I tell about her just calls me "hen-pecked" or says I need to put my foot down.

    I think I let her do this to me because I have low self-esteem. Not without good reason though. I'm 25, live with my parents, work as a jaNitor, am overweight, and not especially smart or funny. So...that doesn't help.

    And yes, I am remembering to log out after I post, and only post from a computer with incognito, or from my phone at work.

    Okay.

    But what are you going to do?

    Honestly, if she's on meds to help reduce violent behavior, you need to get. the fuck. out. Like, yesterday.

    MetalbourneUsagiWassermeloneNightDragonzagdrobAustralopitenicoCambiata
  • finralfinral Registered User regular
    My sympathy to you. I'm going to add my voice to the you should break up with her crowd. Life is way too short to become so invested in something that sounds so unhealthy. It will probably be hard at first, but the second you meet some special someone who lives life in a compatible way with you, you'll look back to this time in your life and wonder "What was I thinking?". I was never in an extreme situation like yours, but even just comparing my fiance to how life was with some of my exes, I'm happy that my life was able to move on. Good luck.

  • InxInx Registered User regular
    Hey guys. Thanks for all the replies. Before I posted this, I expected most of the advice to be "break up with her", so not too surprised.

    To address some of the other comments/questions:

    We have been together for over a year.

    She is currently in therapy, but for Borderline Personality Disorder, not abusive behavior. Her therapy and meds have helped reduce her angry/violent behavior, but not her controlling aspects. I do not believe her therapist knows how bad she is in that regard, and from what she tells me, she usually blames fights on me to her therapist.

    I have told her before that I feel she is abusive, she just says I'm too sensitive, and that the online abuse guidelines are too broad in defining abuse.

    As for the masculinity thing, I have definitely run into that. Any friendor family that I tell about her just calls me "hen-pecked" or says I need to put my foot down.

    I think I let her do this to me because I have low self-esteem. Not without good reason though. I'm 25, live with my parents, work as a jaNitor, am overweight, and not especially smart or funny. So...that doesn't help.

    And yes, I am remembering to log out after I post, and only post from a computer with incognito, or from my phone at work.

    You're me three years ago.

    Break up with her and you'll be me three months ago.

    Start seeing a therapist of your own and with any luck you and I both will be the men we know we are.

    She blames you to her therapist. She's either actively lying to the therapist or twisting the truth. This is not how therapy WORKS. She's on medication for angry and violent behavior. What happens if she doesn't take her meds? What if she decides one day that she doesn't need them anymore? Do you want to be there for that? She doesn't think she's abusive, and you actively disagree. She even goes so far as to marginalize abuse guidelines. She will continue to do this until you are in the ground.

    Don't listen to anyone who calls you henpecked or tells you to foot down, man up, or take your balls out of your purse. This is not a matter of being masculine or not. You have been -conditioned- to let her get away with this shit.

    You're young, living with family until you can get on your feet, and employed. See how easily language turns a negative into a positive? How old you are, where you live, and what you do has ABSOLUTELY no bearing on who you are. Weight can be changed, sometimes with difficulty but it's possible. And I promise you, promise you that you're smarter and funnier than you think you are. And if not? Well, remember those friends and family you mentioned? They like you for a reason. Especially any that have stuck with you through all of this.

    There are two steps that I'm basically begging you to take. The first is to break up with her. Do it however you can. Don't worry about the "right" or "respectable" way, or what her friends will think. If you have to text her to end it, then you fucking text her that shit. I had to do it over the phone while she was in another state at a party so that she wouldn't be able to a)hurt me or b)drag it out and guilt me into changing my mind. The second is to find a therapist and be open and honest with that person. Tell your therapist fucking everything. This may take a while, but if you hide something from a therapist, they can't do their job and help you get better.

    Because you're sick right now. And that's okay. When you're coughing up green slime, you tell your doctor every other symptom you think you've got. This is exactly the same thing, it just expresses itself in different ways and sometimes the medicine is just talking to someone who understands how our brains work and can guarantee that they've heard worse, stranger, and more disturbing things than you can throw at them.

    ToxEsseeRendDonovan PuppyfuckerCaptain Carrotcurly haired boyzagdrobAngelHedgieJihadJesusNightslyrEdith UpwardsCambiataKristmas Kthulhu
  • h3nduh3ndu Registered User regular
    Hey guys. Thanks for all the replies. Before I posted this, I expected most of the advice to be "break up with her", so not too surprised.

    To address some of the other comments/questions:

    We have been together for over a year.

    She is currently in therapy, but for Borderline Personality Disorder, not abusive behavior. Her therapy and meds have helped reduce her angry/violent behavior, but not her controlling aspects. I do not believe her therapist knows how bad she is in that regard, and from what she tells me, she usually blames fights on me to her therapist.

    I have told her before that I feel she is abusive, she just says I'm too sensitive, and that the online abuse guidelines are too broad in defining abuse.

    As for the masculinity thing, I have definitely run into that. Any friendor family that I tell about her just calls me "hen-pecked" or says I need to put my foot down.

    I think I let her do this to me because I have low self-esteem. Not without good reason though. I'm 25, live with my parents, work as a jaNitor, am overweight, and not especially smart or funny. So...that doesn't help.

    And yes, I am remembering to log out after I post, and only post from a computer with incognito, or from my phone at work.

    Low self esteem is not a good reason to settle for abuse buddy.

    Do you have goals in life? Immediate and long term? If not, make some, and start taking steps to bring that personal image of yourself up to a high standard. From what you've posted, you're taking this because you think you deserve it.

    You don't.

    Only you can make yourself believe that though.

    Fix part of your life now. Break up with her, and search out someone who treats you like a person. You're not a punching bag.

    On a side note, there's nothing wrong with being a janitor buddy. I worked as one for a while. Honest work is honest work.

    Learn to love yourself man. You deserve happiness.

    Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea.
    MulletudeEsseeDonovan Puppyfuckerzagdrob
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Hey guys. Thanks for all the replies. Before I posted this, I expected most of the advice to be "break up with her", so not too surprised.

    To address some of the other comments/questions:

    We have been together for over a year.

    She is currently in therapy, but for Borderline Personality Disorder, not abusive behavior. Her therapy and meds have helped reduce her angry/violent behavior, but not her controlling aspects. I do not believe her therapist knows how bad she is in that regard, and from what she tells me, she usually blames fights on me to her therapist.

    I have told her before that I feel she is abusive, she just says I'm too sensitive, and that the online abuse guidelines are too broad in defining abuse.

    As for the masculinity thing, I have definitely run into that. Any friendor family that I tell about her just calls me "hen-pecked" or says I need to put my foot down.

    I think I let her do this to me because I have low self-esteem. Not without good reason though. I'm 25, live with my parents, work as a jaNitor, am overweight, and not especially smart or funny. So...that doesn't help.

    And yes, I am remembering to log out after I post, and only post from a computer with incognito, or from my phone at work.

    Whatever else you do, make sure you get therapy yourself.


    I said it before, but I'll say it again: I don't like telling people, "Just break up," especially over the Internet when all I have is one perspective (yours), but if the circumstances are as you describe, this isn't going to be something that she can likely resolve while she's in a relationship. She has a real problem that the relationship is making complicated (providing her with an opportunity to not only obfuscate the problem, but an outlet for abusing it).

    For your own health and safety, as everyone has already unanimously said, you need the relationship to end. To have a chance to correct her behavior & become a mentally healthy person, she needs the relationship to end (then she can't just go into therapy and waste time complaining about her boyfriend - she'll have to focus on her own issues).


    And try not to dwell on how your current situation somehow justifies her behavior, or how you're lucky to have anyone at all because <blank>. That's total crap. I'm right there with you if you think being alone sucks (and I'm sure most people are); don't let people leverage that against you. Rough patches & lonely valleys are part of the landscape, and they'll be behind you if you give it time.

    With Love and Courage
    MulletudeEsseeRawkking Goodguy
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I have told her before that I feel she is abusive, she just says I'm too sensitive

    Regardless of whether or not you break up with her, I would suggest that you talk to her about this sort of situation. When you tell your girlfriend that you feel X, and your girlfriend replies, "No U", this indicates that, at the very least, she is not taking your feelings seriously. In effect, she's saying it is a problem with you.

    Now, sure, it may be that you are both partially to blame. But assigning blame is not the point. The point is that a healthy relationship is one in which you two talk about both your feelings and her feelings and work out an accommodating compromise.

    If you cannot talk to her about the situation, and so reach an accommodation, then it probably does not behoove you to remain in the relationship.

    Mulletude
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited December 2012
    That exact line that _J_ quoted is a red flag, a warning light, a giant fucking rocket of "Get the hell out" all wrapped up in one.

    If they don't care enough to listen when you say you're being hurt by them then I don't see how that ends well for anybody.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
    ToxEsseeCalicaEdith UpwardsCambiata
  • MulletudeMulletude Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Whatever else you do, make sure you get therapy yourself.


    I said it before, but I'll say it again: I don't like telling people, "Just break up," especially over the Internet when all I have is one perspective (yours), but if the circumstances are as you describe, this isn't going to be something that she can likely resolve while she's in a relationship. She has a real problem that the relationship is making complicated (providing her with an opportunity to not only obfuscate the problem, but an outlet for abusing it).

    For your own health and safety, as everyone has already unanimously said, you need the relationship to end. To have a chance to correct her behavior & become a mentally healthy person, she needs the relationship to end (then she can't just go into therapy and waste time complaining about her boyfriend - she'll have to focus on her own issues).


    And try not to dwell on how your current situation somehow justifies her behavior, or how you're lucky to have anyone at all because <blank>. That's total crap. I'm right there with you if you think being alone sucks (and I'm sure most people are); don't let people leverage that against you. Rough patches & lonely valleys are part of the landscape, and they'll be behind you if you give it time.

    Agree with all ESPECIALLY the bolded part. OP, you may have low self esteem and feel it will be hard to find someone else...But being in an abusive relationship will only further lower your self esteem and the longer you stay in this situation, the more it will skew your views on what's normal in a relationship. I know this very very well.

    Getting away from this person and focusing on friends and family when you can will help.

    Good luck!

    XBL-Dug Danger WiiU-DugDanger Steam-http://steamcommunity.com/id/DugDanger/
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    Borderline Personality Disorder? Dude. seriously. GTFO now. She shouldn't be in a relationship and for the love of god you shouldn't be in one either. People with BPD can improve, but they almost never get "better" and tend to pass those things on to their kids while ruining the lives of people they come in contact with. It sucks that she has that, but you are not and should not be responsible for her issues. You really need to examine this situation and see if it's something you want your life to be. Forever. If not, get out now. If so, why did you even bother making this thread?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • NamrokNamrok Registered User regular
    Sentry wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Borderline Personality Disorder? Dude. seriously. GTFO now. She shouldn't be in a relationship and for the love of god you shouldn't be in one either. People with BPD can improve, but they almost never get "better" and tend to pass those things on to their kids while ruining the lives of people they come in contact with. It sucks that she has that, but you are not and should not be responsible for her issues. You really need to examine this situation and see if it's something you want your life to be. Forever. If not, get out now. If so, why did you even bother making this thread?

    I was going to say the same thing. It takes a lifetime of intensive therapy with specially trained professionals and a serious commitment to getting better to cope wth BPD. Not make it better. Just to cope with it. The fact that she's even been diagnosed with it is remarkable in and of itself because it's so rarely actually noticed by professionals.

    You need to get out yesterday. Get out, block her from everything, get yourself in therapy, and put this as far behind you as you possibly can.

  • NatanekoNataneko Registered User
    As someone that got diagnosed with BPD, I tend to try and nuance those sort of things..... Cause I know I can be mean and controlling but I do try to get better. (and of course the other people are the evil one when she talks to her therapist, but if he's worth anything, he's trying to make her realize that it's just her perception, not the truth) And yes, if you're in a relationship with someone that is mentally ill, you have to communicate a lot, but then it's the same with any relationship. So i'm definitely not in the "she's borderline, GTFO".

    With that said, those trust issues? yeah. no. SHE definitely has to work on that, cause that's got nothing to do with you. And that's not because she's borderline, it's because she has trust issues. I'm not going to say your relationship can't work ever, but you do need to get therapy too.

  • RendRend Registered User regular
    They key to having a healthy relationship with a flawed human being (which is basically any person, except of course, me) is to be mutually willing to accept your own flaws as your SO reveals them. If you tell her she's being too controlling, multiple times over a long period, which I assume you have, and she has not yet come to terms with that? It means she's not ready to be in a relationship. Furthermore, you have to nip those things in the bud. The longer you live with an unacceptable pattern of behavior, the harder it is to change it.

    Those two things together make me think you really, really need to get out as soon as possible. I recommend taking to heart this post by Inx and following its directions to the letter, because that is a quality post. I also agree you should get therapy to repair your self esteem. There's this huge and, honestly disgusting stigma in this country that mental illness is caused by weakness of character. That could not be more wrong. Mental illness is the same as physical illness. You do what you can to prevent it, but sometimes stuff happens and you need help to make it through. There is absolutley positively and with zero doubt NO SHAME WHATSOEVER about going to see a therapist, regardless of what people tell you, or how often they say it.

    When you get back on the horse again, remember that you need to catch red flag behavior early, and work with your SO to curb it. When I was early in my relationship with my now-wife, she had a really terrible habit of escalating our arguments into full blown fights, indefinitely. I have for a long time been pretty well aware of my own limits, ie, I know when I'm approaching critical anger, and my coping strategy is to distance myself from the situation in order to calm down. However, she did not let me do that. She would follow me no matter where I went, in the apartment or out of it, she would not let it go, and so I would blow up. We worked together to make her realize she was doing that, and we made a rule that said "if anyone wants to stop a conversation at any point, we're allowed to do that, provided we also immediately state a time when we can resume it." That solved my problem like a charm, and we're both happier for it.

    Have we ever discussed something like that that I did? No, of course not. (Yes. I tended not to consider her point of view unless it was corroborated by someone else, which was immensely unfair to her, since she rarely had someone who knew enough about the situation to speak with authority) It's a two way street. So next time you get in a relationship, make sure you work with them to mitigate the flaws each of you possess, in order to make the relationship work on a logistical and emotional level.

    But this one does not sound salvageable. Please, please please please, end this relationship and start with a clean slate. Let both of you move on to relationships which can be healthier for you.

    EsseeRawkking Goodguy
  • EWomEWom Registered User regular
    I had a friend in a relationship like this. He was engaged to her, and had a child with her. It ended one night when they got in a fight over me and my wife visiting my friend while she wasn't home from work yet. He invited us over for dinner, and we were all cooking and getting dinner ready for when she got home; what was supposed to be a pleasant evening for everyone, and a nice surprise for her coming home from work and having a nice dinner made.

    After she kicked us out of their apt, she started fighting with him, and eventually started beating him with a frying pan. The neighbors called the cops on them, because they could hear that something bad was happening next door; when the police arrived, he was on the ground bleeding, and she was yelling "take him to jail, he assaulted me!!" Eventually the cops realized that the girl with no scratches, bruises, or any sign of the physical abuse on her was not the one who needed protecting from the guy laying beaten on the ground with a broken nose and other signs of blunt objects hitting him on and around the head and arms (where he tried to stop himself from getting hit in the head). It also turns out she was cheating on him like mad... everytime she thought maybe he might be sneaking around on her ( like a cashier smiled at him at the grocery store..) she'd go out fuck someone.

    I would say you need to get into counseling asap, or leave the relationship asap.

    Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
    Edith Upwards
  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Whoa, I'm way behind, only just read through this thread now.

    I'd just like to add my voice to the screaming masses:

    Get out. Leave.

    The relationship is toxic, and veering towards dangerous.

    Write this person out of your life entirely, then find a professional to talk to about it.

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Paper Monitor, I think you really know what you need to do and there isn't much else to say, but you're scared and that's understandable. Nevertheless, you really need to take care of yourself and it's clear you cannot do that in this relationship. When you tell someone they're abusive and they go "nah" and go about their business, something is very, very wrong. That will never be a workable situation. You are not too sensitive. What you are experiencing is real. If you were ever to start living with her, there is nowhere for this to go but get physical. It happens, and either you are able to step back and say "I don't deserve this and need to leave before she justifies killing me to herself" or you sit and pretend it couldn't have just happened that way, try to justify her point of view when she did it, and then rewrite your memories accordingly. You are already trying to justify her point of view by putting yourself down. I cannot tell you how terrible that is for you. I cannot begin to describe the hell you are going to experience if you let this go on.

    I can only tell you what it was like as a female because I am female, but even as a female you get second-guessed. I remember when I was in high school I was sexually assaulted by a friend. I told another friend, who said I was responsible for it because I didn't put up more of a fight (he later turned out to be not such a great friend on his own). I told my boyfriend at the time, who said "well, it's okay, I guess I'm not mad at you." And then I said "WELP" and didn't say anything about it again for years. People don't want to believe shitty things happen, and the only person available to give the third degree about it when you tell them is you. But deciding not to talk to a therapist about it was a big mistake, and it set me in a pattern that I really believe led me to a number of increasingly terrible situations down the road, which I also didn't talk about because I couldn't bear to hear the things I'd heard before and was perfectly capable of repeating to myself ad nauseum in my head.

    The relationship that I mentioned in this thread previously actually occurred while I was a member of these forums. I disappeared for a while during that time (from here and everywhere), because really, what are you going to say. There were one or two times I actually thought about making H/A threads, but 1) he read the forums too and I was scared he or his friends might see it and 2) I was really afraid of what people would tell me, in a generic sense. I think I was scared that making a thread called "what the fuck just happened" and then telling someone what it seemed had just happened would mean that it really HAD happened, and just saying it would make it real. I didn't tell anyone for three and a half years until I started in therapy; by then so much time had passed that I didn't want to say anything because I felt people would just figure that if I hadn't said something before I was making it up. Sometimes I can be way nastier to myself than others might think to.

    I guess what I am trying to do with this post is applaud you. I want to applaud you for being able to see that there's a problem (because not everyone can), and for being able to talk about it even if it's "only" anonymously on the internet. We're all telling you to do something, but the fact is you have, and it's something big. You've started to talk about it and started to make it real and done so without getting defensive and shutting down. I know the simple act of making a thread to give people a chance to comment seems like very little to you right now, but it's not, it's huge, and you should be proud of yourself. People, especially those of us who have been there, are pushing you to do more because we genuinely feel that where you are now you are in danger, but don't let this simple action you've already taken pass unnoticed. I hope you take heed of what people are saying and get out because it's probably hard for you to believe now, but even if you don't you have done something big for yourself.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    EsseeRayzeToxPirusuJuliustapeslingerV1mJeedancabsyNightslyrEdith UpwardsCambiataGreasyKidsStuff
  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    I have told her before that I feel she is abusive, she just says I'm too sensitive

    Regardless of whether or not you break up with her, I would suggest that you talk to her about this sort of situation. When you tell your girlfriend that you feel X, and your girlfriend replies, "No U", this indicates that, at the very least, she is not taking your feelings seriously. In effect, she's saying it is a problem with you.

    Now, sure, it may be that you are both partially to blame. But assigning blame is not the point. The point is that a healthy relationship is one in which you two talk about both your feelings and her feelings and work out an accommodating compromise.

    If you cannot talk to her about the situation, and so reach an accommodation, then it probably does not behoove you to remain in the relationship.

    This is also something that would absolutely fit my call for an ultimatum except for the lack of follow-through. She was told that she was abusive and, beyond not trying to reform, didn't even try to see if there was some sort of misunderstanding on acceptable behavio in a partner (if she'd cut herself from all male friends and was bothered that you didn't do likewise), which the absolute minimum someone could do in response and still less than what I would view as acceptable. The only worse response I can think of for that confrontation would have been beating him for "mouthing off." That was her last chance, and he should have dumped her there and then.

    As it stands, I'd recommend calling her therapist so he can give her the breakup news if her next appointment comes before the next time she planned on seeing you (Paper Monitor). If not, break up with her via telecommunication.

  • MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    Ultimatums are their own type of controlling behavior and are just as bad as what she's doing to him. Tossing out the threat of "do this or I'm dumping your ass" every time you need her to do something is just going to turn into a battle of wills fueled by codependency.

    zagdrobEsseeShawnaseeToxtapeslingerEdith Upwards
  • xThanatoSxxThanatoSx Registered User regular
    Wow.

    I'm going to add another voice to the "you need to get out, sooner rather than later" crowd.

    Everyone has their own baggage and mental flaws - that's a given. I don't think there's one person on this forum who would confidently make the claim they're 100% well-adjusted. But everything that you've listed just screams "red flag". And I know it can be hard when your own self-esteem is low and there's that part of your brain that goes "well, maybe this is all I'm worth and this is the best I can do." Been there - done that :D

    But the truth is that this is not all you're worth and not the best you can do. Get out, get some therapy for yourself and move on with your life. And in a time frame - a few months, a few years, whatever - you'll look back and realize just how bad things actually were.

    Cambiata
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Bagginses wrote: »
    As it stands, I'd recommend calling her therapist so he can give her the breakup news if her next appointment comes before the next time she planned on seeing you (Paper Monitor). If not, break up with her via telecommunication.

    Also, I think it should go without saying that you should automatically dismiss anything that this person has said in this thread, because it is 100% full of awful.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
This discussion has been closed.