Please listen to the chorus of us saying get out of there. People here either having lived through this, or having seen someone they love live through this, know exactly what she is doing to you, and know exactly how this is going to end.
One really big thing I want you to get, as it is really important step in seeing an abusive relationship and getting out of one:
You are never going to be able to fix her.
You might think you can, and I've heard it from others that they thought they could too, but it's not possible. Only intensive, truthful, and willful therapy can solve her problems.
I think I let her do this to me because I have low self-esteem. Not without good reason though. I'm 25, live with my parents, work as a jaNitor, am overweight, and not especially smart or funny. So...that doesn't help.
There is surprisingly little correlation between people's self-perception and any kind of objective trait measure. I know that no one can tell you to just be more confident and it just works, but realizing that was a good starting point for me. You think poorly of yourself and so you tend to amplify evidence that supports this theory while ignoring all the great stuff you do because it directly conflicts with it. I agree with all the people here who are saying to look for counseling if that's something you can afford. I don't know of any low-cost alternatives if it's not, sadly (don't get me started on the lack of adequate mental health insurance in most plans). I think you're right that the reason you don't speak up for yourself is because you believe that this kind of relationship is what you deserve, but as the chorus has stated, it is not. Therapy can help this kind of thing. You don't think poorly of yourself because you are "overweight, and not especially smart or funny." You observe/believe those things because you think poorly of yourself.
Thanatos had an eloquent line of "this is not all you're worth and not the best you can do" which I wholeheartedly endorse and want to try to elaborate. When people say stuff like this, they're not saying that you can have someone "better" (whatever that means), but that you can find people that make you happier. They may be "worse" by any number of observable dimensions (they may even be crazier!) but they will be more compatible with you, the way you live your life, and the way you expect to be treated, and you will ultimately be more satisfied. You are not some alien species or a unique flower that is cursed to live a life of solitude or submission. Take comfort in your normalcy, as billions of people have managed to find someone that gives them not just companionship, but genuine happiness. You are not a monster that deserves worse than the rest of us. If something is bothering you enough to appeal to an anonymous forum for help, then you deserve better. You may not think you deserve it, but you do. Yes, relationships are about compromise, but there is a fine line between compromise and submission which you have gone far beyond. If being in this role is not making you happy then this is something that can and should be addressed, and the fact that you are not able to openly talk about this with your partner without her being dismissive is the first sign that something really bad is happening.
This is getting quite long but I want to also point out that the apparent speed at which her restrictions tightened shows a fairly shocking acclimation. This should lead you to the conclusion that her jealousy is not rooted in your actions at all. Things that you do (say, talking to a female cashier) could send her into a rage now, but maybe a few months prior would have been fine. This is not normal, and this is not okay. If you truly love this girl and want to stay with her, then you need to help her address these issues, because they reveal something potentially more deep-seeded than the BPD she's being treated for. No matter what you do, she will be jealous, and that is something that, should you stay with her, you need to address or live with. The silver lining here is that the reason she's probably getting jealous all the time is because she thinks she's lucky to have you, and thinks you might run off with something better if given the chance. How's that for a confidence boost?
In short, you need to decide whether you can't imagine living without this girl, or if you're just settling because you don't think you can do any better. If it's the former, then help her by forcing her to confront her issues. Tell her how she makes you feel when she places these restrictions on you. Tell her that you feel abused. Tell her that you love her and wouldn't desert her but how her trust issues and emotional turbulence place undue burden on you and whatever else they make you feel. Don't allow her to be dismissive. Your feelings are valid, and she needs to accept them. If she doesn't care about you enough to consider how you feel, then even if you can't imagine living without her, you need to try to move on. Eventually you will get over it and feel better for it.
If you're just settling, then get out, but don't be afraid to have that conversation anyway. You may end up helping her more than you know, and in the end, you will find someone better. Even if you don't think you deserve it.
Hey guys. Thanks for all the replies. Before I posted this, I expected most of the advice to be "break up with her", so not too surprised.
To address some of the other comments/questions:
We have been together for over a year.
She is currently in therapy, but for Borderline Personality Disorder, not abusive behavior. Her therapy and meds have helped reduce her angry/violent behavior, but not her controlling aspects. I do not believe her therapist knows how bad she is in that regard, and from what she tells me, she usually blames fights on me to her therapist.
I have told her before that I feel she is abusive, she just says I'm too sensitive, and that the online abuse guidelines are too broad in defining abuse.
As for the masculinity thing, I have definitely run into that. Any friendor family that I tell about her just calls me "hen-pecked" or says I need to put my foot down.
I think I let her do this to me because I have low self-esteem. Not without good reason though. I'm 25, live with my parents, work as a jaNitor, am overweight, and not especially smart or funny. So...that doesn't help.
And yes, I am remembering to log out after I post, and only post from a computer with incognito, or from my phone at work.
Friend, I've been with a borderline. It is the highest and lowest you'll ever be. You need to get out though. People who haven't experienced this don't understand how bad it can be. They think, oh, just another crazy woman. This is not that. She's lying to her therapist as all borderlines do. You are not hen pecked in the sense that they mean. She is literally poisonous. Get out before more damage is done to you because this will not end well.
What she's doing to you is called gas lighting. Look at the number of people on this thread who have listened to what you said and their responses. We are living in reality and can reason. You are not and can not. She will not change. Best case she gets DBT at some point once her therapist figures her out (unlikely anytime soon) and she'll have some shot at living a normal life in 5-10 years. Until then you will take the brunt of everything. Even therapists often go into therapy themselves when treating borderlines, just as a safeguard. They are something else entirely. At the very least please read up and educate yourself on this disorder. Dangerous game, buddy.
I dated a borderline for four years. She got worse over time, so I never really noticed just how bad things had gotten.
We had just moved into an apartment with each other when four months in things started getting really bad. The best decision I ever made was listening to family and friends telling me to pack up my things in less than 24 hours and get out of that apartment.
You're going to feel like it's you. That you're the problem. That you aren't good enough. That the relationship can be salvaged.
If there's one thing that I can impress upon you, it's that the most unreliable narrator in this situation is you.
SkyGheNe on
+1
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
As it stands, I'd recommend calling her therapist so he can give her the breakup news if her next appointment comes before the next time she planned on seeing you (Paper Monitor). If not, break up with her via telecommunication.
Also, I think it should go without saying that you should automatically dismiss anything that this person has said in this thread, because it is 100% full of awful.
Is it the getting therapist to break up with her that's the bad idea (because I can see that being a bad idea)
And/or the contacting her therapist behind her back and telling him things?
Because the second part I'm unsure of, I can rationalize it both ways.
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
As it stands, I'd recommend calling her therapist so he can give her the breakup news if her next appointment comes before the next time she planned on seeing you (Paper Monitor). If not, break up with her via telecommunication.
Also, I think it should go without saying that you should automatically dismiss anything that this person has said in this thread, because it is 100% full of awful.
Is it the getting therapist to break up with her that's the bad idea (because I can see that being a bad idea)
And/or the contacting her therapist behind her back and telling him things?
Because the second part I'm unsure of, I can rationalize it both ways.
It's everything he said in the thread. But yes, both of those statements are independently awful.
No matter what you think of a therapist's paygrade (and depending on where she is getting therapy that may be pretty low) it is NEVER high enough for them to break up with a patient on someone else's behalf. They aren't friends and they aren't allowed to get involved like that, it's incredibly inappropriate and they won't do it. The sentiment alone should tell you exactly what this guy doesn't know about therapy and the doctor-patient relationship.
Same goes for calling up someone's therapist and telling them shit. If the OP had power of attorney or legal guardianship over this girl, there may be circumstances where it is appropriate to call on her behalf and say things like "she can't make it today" or "she's dead and is never coming back." Lacking those circumstances and said legal responsibility, it is entirely inappropriate for a random person (and they've been going out little enough time that he's still a random person) to call someone else's therapist to talk shit about them.
Like, I can't form the words to say how awful every part of that post is. My vocabulary is simply lacking in this department. But I can tell you that it is probably the worst advice I've seen around here in a long time.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
However, for the time being, I am going to try to make it work. The main hope I have is that I am scheduled to meet with her therapist next month, and I'm hoping that I can get the therapist to work on her controlling behaviors, and explain why they are wrong to her.
She is also attending DBT sessions, which I am optimistic about.
Also, I feel I may have not presented her side fairly, by not explaining her rationale.
The porn thing: she doesn't really masturbate, not does she see the need for it. So when I masturbate, I do it because I am bored, and also am used to daily release. However, she sees it as a sex replacement, so me looking at porn is the same as cheating in her eyes, because I am choosing to do that with porn instead of her. so, even if I won't see her for 2 more days, and haven't gotten off in 3, I should ignore my urges until I am with her.
The problem with female friends: I am somewhat to blame for this, because she went through my history and found I had looked at a lot of pictures of one of my attractive friends on facebook while we were together. I realized this was dumb and messed up, and deleted that friemd on my own, but that is partially why she doesn't believe I just see femsle friends as friends.
And finally, her reaction to me dating I feel abused: she first found this in my search history while I was at work,.and felt horrible. However, this was more violent/threatening abuse, which she has almost completely stopped. The controlling behavior, she admits is controlling, but not abusive.
I would comment on specific posts that were made, but I'm posting from my phone after working 9 hours on 1 hour of sleep, so I'll try later.
and found I had looked at a lot of pictures of one of my attractive friends on facebook while we were together.
There's nobody that does not do this.
I realized this was dumb and messed up,
No, it is not. It is patently not at all messed up, in any way shape or form.
and deleted that friend on my own,
You should not have done this. This opens the door for more controlling behavior.
but that is partially why she doesn't believe I just see female friends as friends.
Do not blame yourself for this. You did not act unreasonably.
And finally, her reaction to me dating I feel abused: she first found this in my search history while I was at work,.and felt horrible. However, this was more violent/threatening abuse, which she has almost completely stopped. The controlling behavior, she admits is controlling, but not abusive.
Controlling behavior is still emotional abuse. Do not think for a second that it is not.
Please. I am asking you this legitimately. Please, please, please, go. Break up. This is not a salvageable situation, it has gone on for too long and you have let too much slip. You must start over, with a clean slate, if you want any hope of making something work.
I am not telling you to break up with her like everyone else in this thread, however your last post screams "THERAPIST! NOW!"
The porn thing: she doesn't really masturbate, not does she see the need for it. So when I masturbate, I do it because I am bored, and also am used to daily release. However, she sees it as a sex replacement, so me looking at porn is the same as cheating in her eyes, because I am choosing to do that with porn instead of her. so, even if I won't see her for 2 more days, and haven't gotten off in 3, I should ignore my urges until I am with her.
You really need to set your boundary here. Masturbation is perfectly healthy and shouldn't be considered cheating.
The problem with female friends: I am somewhat to blame for this, because she went through my history and found I had looked at a lot of pictures of one of my attractive friends on facebook while we were together. I realized this was dumb and messed up, and deleted that friemd on my own, but that is partially why she doesn't believe I just see femsle friends as friends.
And finally, her reaction to me dating I feel abused: she first found this in my search history while I was at work,.and felt horrible. However, this was more violent/threatening abuse, which she has almost completely stopped. The controlling behavior, she admits is controlling, but not abusive.
There is nothing wrong with "window shopping." You aren't going to completely abandon your girlfriend for another girl because you like looking at attractive females for 5 seconds. What is wrong is this disgusting lack of trust. She look at your Internet history? Really? What you need to do is talk to your real friends, family, and a therapist about your relationship so you can understand what a healthy relationship looks like.
Oh, and you did a good job defending(actually, rationalizing) your gf's behavior. If not, she's read this post and can give her side of the story.
Controlling you is abusing you. You say tomato I say you're crazy.
as iRevert said, you're rationalizing her behavior. Explaining it away and the only person who should be doing that is her therapist.
It's amazing that you completely glossed over your rationale behind her controlling issues: she was snooping through your history and search history.
'It's ok, she's like this because, through purposely searching my computer, she found out I was looking at pictures and porn.'
You're going to come home one day and she's going to ask you to drop trou and instead of being like "oh hells yeah" you're going to be looking around for scissors or knives and then you're going to think how incisors is really similar to the word scissors and then you'll be thinking how much pressure would it take for someone to bite through your junk and then you're going to say I should have listened to those folks who I asked advice from and now I have no dick cause my jealous, controlling, abusive wife just bit it off and then you'll wake up and realize that no one shot JR and you really ARE glad you took our advice and got the fuck out.
0
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
You're backpeddling. I am more inclined to believe anything you said in your OP at this point than you've said since.
These things are not normal, and you don't like them, and they are making you feel bad, and then you are using them to make yourself feel even worse.
Is she sitting in on that meeting you're having with her therapist?
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
+7
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
I mean, is it also your fault for going to school? For trying to get an education so you may better provide for yourself? Is it your fault that cashiers are sometimes female? Is it your fault that you need to rest sometimes?
If you say can say "yes", or even "no, but" to any of those things, you need a lot more help than you think.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
I was once in a situation where I felt I needed to post about a relationship somewhere. It wasn't on these boards, but I was seeking help. I got similar replies, I should break up with her, etc. I then did the same thing you're doing now. I rationalized the relationship and the behavior and I said, "No, regardless of what advice has been offered me, I'm just gonna stick it out." I'll get to the end of the story: We're not together now and I can't tell you how much happier I was once it was over. I also feel like I would have been happier sooner if I had just taken their advice. You know what sucks worse? Your situation is way worse than mine ever was.
My point is the same as the others, you're attempting to rationalize it. Everyone here can agree on one thing: Her behavior is unacceptable. You can't say it's your fault because IT ISN'T. Masturbation is perfectly healthy, and you're not wrong for doing it. She has shamed you into believing that, which IS unhealthy. Other girls? Who doesn't glance at another person from time to time when they're in a relationship? You're human, you have eyes, and you can still appreciate attractiveness. It in no way means you're going to leave her (Unless you have actually actively thought about leaving her for one of these girls, at which point your relationship is still unhealthy). Instead, she has used this as a way to again, shame you into doing what she wants. She wants to be the only girl in your life, and honestly, I wouldn't put it past her that she wants to be the only PERSON in your life but can't come up with a better way to stop you from hanging out with your guy friends.
At this point you're strengthening that behavior. She has successfully manipulated you, and people don't stop manipulating overnight. Give it some time if you absolutely have to, but if things don't immediately start improving, or if they even marginally get worse, I would recommend you jump ship. She needs help, but you should not feel responsible for her, especially after the things she has done to you. There's a reason everyone here is telling you that things do not look good.
Unless you were "looking at" these pictures with a bottle of lotion and a box of tissues there's no reasonable basis for annoyance there, and even if you were, asking you to get rid of all of your female friends is still not acceptable.
Feeling horrible about bad things they've done is a fairly common tactic for abusers. Unless it is accompanied by changes "feeling horrible" is really just "drawing you back in."
I suppose you just need to make these mistakes so that you can learn from them.
You do have a chance here. But this isn't just gonna get magically better. It really isn't.
I have a child with the person who used to do the things your GF is doing with you so I don't get to escape completely. She used to get angry if I made eye contact with other women, like cashiers, and it was doubly worse if she thought they were "hot". She would go on about how I was emotionally cheating by smiling at or looking people in the eye. You are treading the same ground.
If you aren't gonna take the good advice given here than you just gotta sink on your own.
As with many of life's lessons, this is one you'll have to learn on your own, the hard way. If you take no other advice then at least take the following into consideration... no matter what happens you can get by in life by having a stable support system of friends and family. Chances are the OP will do everything in her power to destroy those in your life. It's up to you to keep some kind of support system independent of your girlfriend. This means your own money, transportation, and friends/family you can rely on. These things should be non-negotiable for almost anyone, but for you they are significantly more important and under no circumstances should you ever give them up.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Now that I have some time I'll expand on what I was saying.
What your doing is almost textbook behavior from someone who is abused, pretty much when confronted with the fact that they are being abused they will attempt to rationalize it and explain it so it is their fault.
However, for the time being, I am going to try to make it work. The main hope I have is that I am scheduled to meet with her therapist next month, and I'm hoping that I can get the therapist to work on her controlling behaviors, and explain why they are wrong to her.
She is also attending DBT sessions, which I am optimistic about.
First how do you think this is going to go? Just you present your side and the shrink sides with you and goes oh yeah she needs to work on this and blam rainbows shoot out of his bum and your relationship is suddenly all gumdrops and sugarpops?
So far from what you've said is that she's blamed all this on you to him/her, you are going into this as "the bad guy" and showing up a few times won't change this in his/her eyes. While your there and attempting to explain things your girlfriend is going to reflect and deny everything you say. You have given her all the leeway to get away with things and place the blame on you so far and she is going to continue to do so. She is going to deny it at the shrinks and continue to paint you out as the bad guy and then mark my words as soon as you leave she is going to go after you 10x worse than normal. HOW COULD YOU SAY _____ ABOUT ME etc etc etc.
If your not willing to step back and look at things chances are your going to continue to attempt to rationalize it and go well I guess it is my fault that I said this at the shrink and perhaps it is me.
The porn thing: she doesn't really masturbate, not does she see the need for it.
This is her issue and not yours, what people choose to do with their bodies is no ones business but their own. If she doesn't get off (pun intended) on getting off then tough titty. She isn't a male in the full swing of his sex drive and doesn't understand that hormonal urge that we get. Provided you aren't into some seriously fucked up kinky shit that is illegal if you want to do that its your choice.
So when I masturbate, I do it because I am bored, and also am used to daily release.
Get a hobby other than that, chronic masturbation isn't something you need to do. Things are more fulfilling if you stretch things out between releases.
However, she sees it as a sex replacement, so me looking at porn is the same as cheating in her eyes, because I am choosing to do that with porn instead of her. so, even if I won't see her for 2 more days, and haven't gotten off in 3, I should ignore my urges until I am with her.
Ok this Dr. Phil bullshit needs to stop. Unless you are actively jerking it with someone else in the room watching you that isn't her it isn't cheating. For you to whip out your fleshlight and put on some porn and have a fappy good time is no ones business but your own. As said before you are smack dab in the middle of your sex drive. While I'm going to say jerking it daily isn't a good idea being on a bi weekly deal is pretty much a normal thing for most men.
I'm also going to say this: SEX IS NOT A BARGAINING CHIP, IT IS NOT A WEAPON, AND IT IS NOT SOMETHING TO BE GUILTY ABOUT
Flat out if you finish work and are tired and don't want to deal with her and just want to take matters into your own hands and go to sleep then go for it. You aren't going out looking for someone to fill those needs so you have ZERO things to feel guilty about. If you're in the mood and aren't going to see her for 2 more days fuck it crank one out.
The problem with female friends: I am somewhat to blame for this, because she went through my history and found I had looked at a lot of pictures of one of my attractive friends on facebook while we were together. I realized this was dumb and messed up, and deleted that friemd on my own, but that is partially why she doesn't believe I just see femsle friends as friends.
Read that first goddamn sentence, "She went through MY history". That right there is a relationship ender for me, that is a massive invasion of privacy and she has zero fucking right to do that.
Every single dude creeps girls on (insert favorite social networking sight), the majority of men still check up on ex girlfriends for one reason or another. If you are just looking at images and not jerking it to them or actively attempting to get back into that relationship you have NOTHING to feel guilty about.
By deleting the person you're just enabled her and opened things up for her to be more controlling.
And finally, her reaction to me dating I feel abused: she first found this in my search history while I was at work,.and felt horrible. However, this was more violent/threatening abuse, which she has almost completely stopped. The controlling behavior, she admits is controlling, but not abusive.
So she went through your history again? Well I guess she has zero respect for your privacy. Of course she "felt" horrible, she has a whipping boy and doesn't want to lose. Now we hear about more "violent" abuse or threats that have almost stopped, which means they still go on. You have every single red flag you possibly could have short of her getting physical with you and you refuse to acknowledge them.
I would comment on specific posts that were made, but I'm posting from my phone after working 9 hours on 1 hour of sleep, so I'll try later.
I'm willing to bet that she'll find that history as well because if she has gone through your computer without any repercussions the door has been opened and no boundaries were established. Dollars to doughnuts she's looking through your phone as well.
So here is my advice.
Walk away
Walk away
Walk the fuck away.
You don't need to end it with her but get your own place, stay with a friend, or stay with your parents whatever it takes to get away from her. Take a couple of months to get away from that toxic relationship, take a good look at yourself and for the love of god grow a set and reestablish your self worth. The more you devalue yourself by saying "oh I'm overweight" or "oh I'm not the best looking" the easier you make an abusers job.
My advise is to take a break from her and cut ties with the exception of a once a week email or phone call for a couple of months. See a psychologist on your own about working on your self esteem issues and talking about this relationship. Print out what you posted and show it to the shrink and see what he says.
You need to take a step back without her and look at your life.
That is not a healthy relationship that is doing NOTHING to help your self esteem, the longer you stay in this the more the abuse will progress. The more you allow her to control you the harder it will be to leave and the more she will devalue you till you feel that she is about "as good as you could get".
Is she sitting in on that meeting you're having with her therapist?
This.
No matter how you spin it things are going to go shitty from this, it needs to be done but you are going to catch hell from it.
Take my advice here very seriously, pack a 30 second bag. It is a bag that has everything you need for a few days of living at a hotel or friends house that you can walk in the door, grab, and walk out and be gone. Make some arrangements with a friend or co-worker to crash at their place potentially if needed or set aside enough for a hotel room for a few days.
Cash, clothing, cell charger and such it doesn't have to be huge just a backpack and make sure you have your keys and wallet/phone on you. I'd recommend going in separate vehicles and if you take two different cars tossing that bag into the trunk. After the meeting you keep your keys and wallet in your pocket when you get home, if at any point things start in or get bad you walk out the door and grab the bag.
30 seconds from being in the situation to being away from it for some time. When an abusers world beings to crash down and the abuse-ee is starting to show signs of resistance and fighting back (so to speak) this can push them over the edge and change things from a "occasional threat" to actual violence.
It doesn't matter what has transgressed in the past, what matters is who has the marks on them when the police show up and as a man you are always looked at as the aggressor unless you have serious injuries. It is easier to just walk out at the first sign of trouble and give a little bit of time for things to cool down (though they never will) then to allow things to progress.
I'm going to edit this in before you can even say it or try to spin it.
There is no "male" or "female" in abuse, only the abuser and those who are abused. Men can be abused, women can be abused it doesn't matter what your sex is this happens.
I was on the other side of this, as a friend/ex who lost a life long friendship to an abusive, controlling girlfriend. After nearly 2 years of not being able to communicate with him, he just recently apologized and we are starting off fresh. Dont let this girl take away people you value and enjoy because she cant help but be "controlling".
I felt super shitty because I couldn't hangout with a dude who was literally a brother to me. Its not just going to effect you, but anyone she decides is deemed unworthy of sharing your attention with (which is anyone). We cant stop you from trying to make it work, but you can stop her from cutting off your friends. Continue to talk to the people you love, Please.
There was a guy that posted on the forums a few years back. He told his story about being abused by his ex wife before he finally left. I really wish I could remember his name and was able to see if he was still around.
Abuse starts small and then builds. I'm pretty willing to bet that the beginning of that guys story looks a lot like yours and, if I remember correctly, his story ended (before he left her) with being hit in the head with a cast iron frying pan.
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The problem with female friends: I am somewhat to blame for this, because she went through my history and found I had looked at a lot of pictures of one of my attractive friends on facebook while we were together. I realized this was dumb and messed up, and deleted that friemd on my own, but that is partially why she doesn't believe I just see femsle friends as friends.
You are not to blame. Her having massive trust-issues to the point where she goes through your history and then bans you from ever having any female friends because you looked a pictures of a friend? That is not your fault.
You're on your way to this. I know you have low self esteem but please believe us when we say you would be happier alone for the rest of your life rather than living the life you're heading into.
Elin on
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+2
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Take my advice here very seriously, pack a 30 second bag. It is a bag that has everything you need for a few days of living at a hotel or friends house that you can walk in the door, grab, and walk out and be gone. Make some arrangements with a friend or co-worker to crash at their place potentially if needed or set aside enough for a hotel room for a few days.
Cash, clothing, cell charger and such it doesn't have to be huge just a backpack and make sure you have your keys and wallet/phone on you. I'd recommend going in separate vehicles and if you take two different cars tossing that bag into the trunk. After the meeting you keep your keys and wallet in your pocket when you get home, if at any point things start in or get bad you walk out the door and grab the bag.
30 seconds from being in the situation to being away from it for some time. When an abusers world beings to crash down and the abuse-ee is starting to show signs of resistance and fighting back (so to speak) this can push them over the edge and change things from a "occasional threat" to actual violence.
It doesn't matter what has transgressed in the past, what matters is who has the marks on them when the police show up and as a man you are always looked at as the aggressor unless you have serious injuries. It is easier to just walk out at the first sign of trouble and give a little bit of time for things to cool down (though they never will) then to allow things to progress.
I'm going to edit this in before you can even say it or try to spin it.
There is no "male" or "female" in abuse, only the abuser and those who are abused. Men can be abused, women can be abused it doesn't matter what your sex is this happens.
OP is living with his parents, so he's safe when he's home at least.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
All I can say is that I'm devastated with what you just posted. Legitimately devastated.
If you were seeking a very specific FORM of advice, like wanting to hear us tell you to work it out, then you weren't seeking advice. You were seeking validation. Do you know why people seek validation? Because they don't think what they're about to do is the right thing.
I've said everything I can. The rest of your life is in your own hands. I don't want anything more to do with it. Good luck.
She has told me I am never allowed to make new female friends, or hang out with any of my male friends if there are women present, unless she is there. She will be upset with me if thinks a cashier flirted with me. I am not allowed to watch porn. And I am not supposed to speak with any female unless strictly necessary, even to the point where I'm supposed to ask my professors to put me in different groups for group work if my group contains a girl.
That right there? That's abuse.
What she is doing is not okay. You rationalizing it is not okay. It doesn't matter how "fairly" you're presenting the matter. If she is doing these things, for any reason, she is abusing you and controlling you in a way that is unhealthy and not okay.
However, for the time being, I am going to try to make it work. The main hope I have is that I am scheduled to meet with her therapist next month, and I'm hoping that I can get the therapist to work on her controlling behaviors, and explain why they are wrong to her.
She is also attending DBT sessions, which I am optimistic about.
Also, I feel I may have not presented her side fairly, by not explaining her rationale.
The porn thing: she doesn't really masturbate, not does she see the need for it. So when I masturbate, I do it because I am bored, and also am used to daily release. However, she sees it as a sex replacement, so me looking at porn is the same as cheating in her eyes, because I am choosing to do that with porn instead of her. so, even if I won't see her for 2 more days, and haven't gotten off in 3, I should ignore my urges until I am with her.
The problem with female friends: I am somewhat to blame for this, because she went through my history and found I had looked at a lot of pictures of one of my attractive friends on facebook while we were together. I realized this was dumb and messed up, and deleted that friemd on my own, but that is partially why she doesn't believe I just see femsle friends as friends.
And finally, her reaction to me dating I feel abused: she first found this in my search history while I was at work,.and felt horrible. However, this was more violent/threatening abuse, which she has almost completely stopped. The controlling behavior, she admits is controlling, but not abusive.
I would comment on specific posts that were made, but I'm posting from my phone after working 9 hours on 1 hour of sleep, so I'll try later.
If you don't mind, I'd like to break this down for you a little. Right now what you're doing is justifying her bad behavior. You're trying explain both why you deserve this and how you can make this perfect and better. Everyone of us who has a history of DV can tell you the variations we told on the same lies. Or the lies we told ourselves, how if we were just perfect then this wouldn't happen. All we need to do is be flawless. Or when period of X stressed passed, it would all be okay. Or we shouldn't have talked about our special, magical love with an outsider. And you tell those lies like they are the truth because in your mind you've lied to yourself so much that they are truth.
But you're past the point where it's just the emotional aspect. The violence has started, and honestly it sounds like there is some history of it. And she's working the strings in your head. She feels bad about that violent, threatening abuse. But I'm guessing it's not the first time you're heard it. If you stay with her it won't be the last.
And you're at this stage exactly because of her controlling behavior. She's used it to convince you to cut yourself off from the world for her. That's what the control does. You live your life in the world she defines for you. Hell right now you're allowing her to define what isn't abuse. She's said that her controlling behavior isn't abusive. So you come here to defend her.
I also know the mental calculus you're doing right now. She 'loves' you. And you're self-esteem is low so you're wondering if perhaps that bit of love is worth all of the pain. And if you get rid of her, is it going to just be emptiness. I understand that. So let me tell you what happened to me. I left my ex-wife thinking that I would be alone forever. And that would suck but I could maybe play some computer games in peace. But that's not what happened. I met a woman, and we fell in love. And she was the sweetest, nicest woman you could ever hope for. And we were together many years but it didn't work out. And so I thought I'd be alone and go through therapy. A year later I met the woman I'm with now. Who I love very deeply. And who loves me. We make each other's lives better. So that's two.
If you leave her, I promise you'll love again. And if you are a bit wiser next time, I promise you it will be a much better love then you think you have now.
OP - Re-read this thread. And then re-read it again.
So many people in this community have been where you are now, or been going down the road to where you are now. And while PA can be a hive of scum and villainy, it's a hive of scum and villainy that cares about the other members of the community. It's a community that understands that real people exist on the other side of the usernames. And it's a community that tries to look out for its own, even if it's just a bunch of text on a screen.
Everyone here has their brokenness. From that brokenness comes a desire to help others not be so broken.
But you also have to want it. And so maybe you're not ready to accept what all of us have to say. I think everyone here can probably point to at least one time in their lives when everyone around them was saying something they didn't agree with/weren't ready to hear. And if all this thread does is sits in the back of your head for now and gives you another way to look at the situation... well, then at least it's here for that.
However, for the time being, I am going to try to make it work. The main hope I have is that I am scheduled to meet with her therapist next month, and I'm hoping that I can get the therapist to work on her controlling behaviors, and explain why they are wrong to her.
She is also attending DBT sessions, which I am optimistic about.
Also, I feel I may have not presented her side fairly, by not explaining her rationale.
The porn thing: she doesn't really masturbate, not does she see the need for it. So when I masturbate, I do it because I am bored, and also am used to daily release. However, she sees it as a sex replacement, so me looking at porn is the same as cheating in her eyes, because I am choosing to do that with porn instead of her. so, even if I won't see her for 2 more days, and haven't gotten off in 3, I should ignore my urges until I am with her.
The problem with female friends: I am somewhat to blame for this, because she went through my history and found I had looked at a lot of pictures of one of my attractive friends on facebook while we were together. I realized this was dumb and messed up, and deleted that friemd on my own, but that is partially why she doesn't believe I just see femsle friends as friends.
And finally, her reaction to me dating I feel abused: she first found this in my search history while I was at work,.and felt horrible. However, this was more violent/threatening abuse, which she has almost completely stopped. The controlling behavior, she admits is controlling, but not abusive.
I would comment on specific posts that were made, but I'm posting from my phone after working 9 hours on 1 hour of sleep, so I'll try later.
Set your boundaries, defend them relentlessly, and never ever concede that she's allowed to make you do things you don't want to or that it's OK for her to feel bad or make you feel bad if you don't want to do what she wants.
Spend some time thinking about those boundaries. You might find it a useful exercise to write them down, and when you're finished working them out, write them out again in a nice neat list, present them to her and say this is the way it's going to be.
You might think that you're taking the easy way out but really you're taking a very difficult path. I hope it works out for you but if it doesn't, come back here and we'll be more than glad to help you out.
You seem like a very kind, giving person, but it's extremely easy for people like you to get trapped into the role of fixing what's broken about other people. Remember that there are people who are broken in ways that it's not only not your job to fix, but not within your capbilities to. The end point of the path you're on may well be that the only way you can help the girl you love is to force her to confront what's broken about her by leaving her no other option.
EDIT: And remember that she needs you more than you need her. That's what all this is about.
There is no "male" or "female" in abuse, only the abuser and those who are abused. Men can be abused, women can be abused it doesn't matter what your sex is this happens.
Not only is this true, it actually understates the case; although male-on-female DV is about twice as common, female-on-male DV is actually considerably more dangerous, because women are far more likely to use weapons like knives, guns, poison, etc., in their DV.
As soon as your first post I was waiting for this phrase to turn up and I jump to page 3 and bam there it is.
Thats how abusers work, "you are to blame for this...look what you made me do!"
Every time you try to establish boundaries shes going to tell you that you are the one who is broken, has issues with intimacy or trust, unable to love ect, which makes her behavior acceptable.
@Paper Monitor, I agree with what pretty much everybody here is saying, but I'd like to add one thing. In order to deal with her BPS, your girlfriend needs to develop a healthier self-image and ability to deal with relationships rationally, and you're not helping her by enabling and validating her abusive behavior. If you are really going to stay in this relationship, which I frankly don't recommend, then you must stop accepting this kind of behavior. What she's doing is extremely harmful to both of you.
Not only can this relationship make you increasingly stressed out and miserable while you are in it, it will also have consequences even after it's over. And the longer you let this go on, the worse it will be. You may not want to end the relationship yourself, but it may end regardless of what you want, and what then? Once she has systematically isolated you from everyone else, what will you be left with? How will you deal with future relationships? I spent two years with a person who was also diagnosed with BPS. He acted exactly like you describe -- until he got worse. I eventually had the sense to end it, but even after a couple of years I find myself too traumatized to enter a serious relationship again. And I'm way older than you, with perspective from previous, mostly very healthy relationships. This kind of thing can sabotage your future for a long time, so please, think long and hard about what's best for both of you.
Oh boy. You are starting to wade deep into Stockholm Syndrome there, buddy.
I don't have terrible stories to tell, wasn't really "abused" as such. And yet my first real girlfriend was overly jealous and crazy. I had constant fights with her because we lived on different cities and some weekends I went out with my friends, some of which were female. She would also get constantly offended by everything I said, it's like she needed constant arguments to enjoy the relationship. Ironically, despite her being REALLY jealous she cheated on me several times.
All through that time I thought that it was ME to blame. That I was insensitive and also that I wasn't enough for her. There was a time were I was CONVINCED that it was logical she acted that way, because she was way out of my league and she was doing me a FAVOR by being with me.
It's only with time that I realize that I didn't want to live like that. So I sent her packing with the guy he was cheating on me with. After a couple of years of self-esteem issues, excessive drinking and misoginy I managed to get over it and have a clear idea of what I wanted in a relationship. And you know what, I found it.
Picture this: you go shopping with your girlfriend and the cashier smiles at you, after you leave you tell your girlfriend "that cashier was totally into me". Your girlfriend smirks and tells you "of course she was, sweetie", sarcasm flowing from her voice. And that's it, you go home and carry on with your lives. That can and will happen to you, but seriously, you need to gather the strength to decide what you want in your life, or at least what you do not want.
It's your life, man, those 80 years are yours, don't let anyone take them away from you because they are not going to come back.
Edit: My ex-girlfriend relationship with "ratface" (the other guy) went exactly like mine. Also, we are friends now, it seems that her being a total idiot is something that she limits to relationships. I don't hate her now, I'm actually grateful that she taught me a very valuable lesson about life. Message to take home: wounds heal, there will be a point in the future when you just will not care.
Paper Monitor, one thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet is whats going on now In abusive situations there is a thing called 'peaks and valleys' or the cycle of abuse. That's what's going on with you now. You're at a high point, right after the bad occurs, where she apologises for everything, and says it will never happen again, and that she'll try really hard. And she will, for a little while. The controlling and abuse will stop. Then it will start to creap back, in little things at first, then larger, and before you know it she will be worse to you than ever before. Then you'll be at the lowest point and making another thread and thinking about getting out... and then it will stop. She'll apologise, she'll say it will never happen again, that she'll try really hard. And the cycle will begin again. And again. And again.
I want to hug you dude. I want to wrap my arms around you and say it will all be ok, because like many others, I've been where you are. I've been abused, but refused to admit I was abused. I've walked on eggshells every day, trying so hard to be perfect because I just KNEW if I could jsut do everything right he wouldn't yell or get angry. But no matter how hard I tried, no matter what I did, he found a reason to control and rage. But I tried and tried, because I loved him, and that's what you're supposed to do right? You're supposed to forgive the one you love. Ever after he started beating me, I still tried and tried and thought it was my fault.
Paper Monitor I know you love her. But you are not happy. You can tell yourself that you are, but you know it's not true. You need to get out. Things will never change if you stay. It will just be an unending cycle of pain and promises she will never keep. You need to get out. No matter what you do, she will not stop the cycle, she will always abuse you. It is not your fault. You can never please her. She will always demand more, and more.
Please get out hon. It breaks my heart to see anyone have to go through this.
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
Seriously man, I hope you realize from everyone's replies that you need to open your eyes and get out.
I understand what you're feeling right now. You've got so little self-esteem that you feel lucky yo be in a relationship. Plus you don't want to be a guy who ends a relationship because of the other persons disorders. Plus it's your first one and it's been over a year. Add all that up and you are wanting to do anything and everything to try and keep this girl, because you've got hope that things will change...
I pray that you realize that you're in an abusive relationship that isn't going to change when you go to the therapist. I pray that he tells you, you need to get out. Everything you've said screams abuse. Telling you what to do, what to not do. Making you feel guilty or crappy when you do something she doesn't agree with. A relationship is about compromise....and you're the only one who is compromising. And because you have no self-esteem/confidence, you're just taking it.
Are you really happy that you can't masterbate anymore? Are you happy that she's looking through your history? Telling you, you can't make friends? Is that a good relationship to you? You bring up issues and she just pushes them aside and doesn't even recognize them as problems! How can you help her fix things when she doesn't even see it as something that needs fixing?
I know it's going to be hard breaking it off, but don't think you're a jerk because you're doing it because she's got issues and you're just ditching her instead of trying to help her. Do it because she isn't in a mental state to be in a relationship right now and breaking it off will actually help her.
There is a reason why every single person on this thread is saying the same thing....I pray that you soon realize it needs to happen, stop rationalizing, and get it done. Good luck sir
You still need to get therapy for yourself. It'll help you learn how to stand up to her, set personal boundaries, and generally be a happier person and help you cope.
Also, I bet the moment you stand up for yourself, she leaves you for someone else. Because she's not looking for a partner. She's looking for someone to dump all her crazy onto.
Paper Monitor: You're seeing a lot of people give essentially the same advice, and to be fair, it's advice that you've also heard from those around you. Part of the reason she's trying to cut you off from other people (and other sexual outlets) is to prevent you from seeing what "normal" is. If you have female friends, yes, they may be prettier, but they're also people you could talk to about the relationship and would likely give you similar advice to what you're seeing in the thread.
I have an uncle who got married to a woman similar to your girlfriend. She was generally described by people as being "a little off," and gradually cut him off from friends and family. After living with my grandparents for about a year, they move out and she demands that he, nor their daughter, ever see my grandparents again. When the rest of the family reached out to him, she found out and cut him off further. Her personality and her disease turned her into a hoarder, as she became distrustful of anyone but herself and she became anxious of the idea of having anything leave the house. Since she had gradually cut off my uncle's family and friends, when things got REALLY bad, he had nowhere to go -- she had seeded him with the idea that he was worthless and deserved it.
And the sad thing about many people is that we often fixate on negativity, especially regarding ourselves. If a friend calls you "fat" once but calls you "awesome" 20 times, you remember the "fat" and don't even register the "awesomes." You have friends and family that love you, and you may not even realize how they're trying to help you. We are trying to help you, too, and we can see that you're smart and self-aware and worth helping because you already recognize what she's doing to you. She's making you feel guilty over natural things (sex, masturbating, friends of both genders) and that means whenever you even think about doing these natural things, you instantly think how you're wronging her in some way.
You need a fresh set of eyes -- your own. You need to, at the very least, take a break from this girl and talk with your friends and family, your normal support group, about what's happening and how you feel about it. They are there for you, and they want to help you.
You need to, at the very least, take a break from this girl and talk with your friends and family, your normal support group, about what's happening and how you feel about it. They are there for you, and they want to help you.
This is the best advice yet, Paper. Your decisions are your own, but get a little space and breathing room in which to make them.
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
However, for the time being, I am going to try to make it work. The main hope I have is that I am scheduled to meet with her therapist next month, and I'm hoping that I can get the therapist to work on her controlling behaviors, and explain why they are wrong to her.
She is also attending DBT sessions, which I am optimistic about.
Also, I feel I may have not presented her side fairly, by not explaining her rationale.
The porn thing: she doesn't really masturbate, not does she see the need for it. So when I masturbate, I do it because I am bored, and also am used to daily release. However, she sees it as a sex replacement, so me looking at porn is the same as cheating in her eyes, because I am choosing to do that with porn instead of her. so, even if I won't see her for 2 more days, and haven't gotten off in 3, I should ignore my urges until I am with her.
The problem with female friends: I am somewhat to blame for this, because she went through my history and found I had looked at a lot of pictures of one of my attractive friends on facebook while we were together. I realized this was dumb and messed up, and deleted that friemd on my own, but that is partially why she doesn't believe I just see femsle friends as friends.
And finally, her reaction to me dating I feel abused: she first found this in my search history while I was at work,.and felt horrible. However, this was more violent/threatening abuse, which she has almost completely stopped. The controlling behavior, she admits is controlling, but not abusive.
I would comment on specific posts that were made, but I'm posting from my phone after working 9 hours on 1 hour of sleep, so I'll try later.
Set your boundaries, defend them relentlessly, and never ever concede that she's allowed to make you do things you don't want to or that it's OK for her to feel bad or make you feel bad if you don't want to do what she wants.
Spend some time thinking about those boundaries. You might find it a useful exercise to write them down, and when you're finished working them out, write them out again in a nice neat list, present them to her and say this is the way it's going to be.
You might think that you're taking the easy way out but really you're taking a very difficult path. I hope it works out for you but if it doesn't, come back here and we'll be more than glad to help you out.
You seem like a very kind, giving person, but it's extremely easy for people like you to get trapped into the role of fixing what's broken about other people. Remember that there are people who are broken in ways that it's not only not your job to fix, but not within your capbilities to. The end point of the path you're on may well be that the only way you can help the girl you love is to force her to confront what's broken about her by leaving her no other option.
EDIT: And remember that she needs you more than you need her. That's what all this is about.
You're assuming that there is a remotely equal power dynamic in the relationship. That he can make a series of demands with a reasonable expectation that they will be listened to and respected. Best case for him trying this is that he makes the demands, she concedes for a bit then manipulates him back into being exactly where he is now.
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One really big thing I want you to get, as it is really important step in seeing an abusive relationship and getting out of one:
You are never going to be able to fix her.
You might think you can, and I've heard it from others that they thought they could too, but it's not possible. Only intensive, truthful, and willful therapy can solve her problems.
There is surprisingly little correlation between people's self-perception and any kind of objective trait measure. I know that no one can tell you to just be more confident and it just works, but realizing that was a good starting point for me. You think poorly of yourself and so you tend to amplify evidence that supports this theory while ignoring all the great stuff you do because it directly conflicts with it. I agree with all the people here who are saying to look for counseling if that's something you can afford. I don't know of any low-cost alternatives if it's not, sadly (don't get me started on the lack of adequate mental health insurance in most plans). I think you're right that the reason you don't speak up for yourself is because you believe that this kind of relationship is what you deserve, but as the chorus has stated, it is not. Therapy can help this kind of thing. You don't think poorly of yourself because you are "overweight, and not especially smart or funny." You observe/believe those things because you think poorly of yourself.
Thanatos had an eloquent line of "this is not all you're worth and not the best you can do" which I wholeheartedly endorse and want to try to elaborate. When people say stuff like this, they're not saying that you can have someone "better" (whatever that means), but that you can find people that make you happier. They may be "worse" by any number of observable dimensions (they may even be crazier!) but they will be more compatible with you, the way you live your life, and the way you expect to be treated, and you will ultimately be more satisfied. You are not some alien species or a unique flower that is cursed to live a life of solitude or submission. Take comfort in your normalcy, as billions of people have managed to find someone that gives them not just companionship, but genuine happiness. You are not a monster that deserves worse than the rest of us. If something is bothering you enough to appeal to an anonymous forum for help, then you deserve better. You may not think you deserve it, but you do. Yes, relationships are about compromise, but there is a fine line between compromise and submission which you have gone far beyond. If being in this role is not making you happy then this is something that can and should be addressed, and the fact that you are not able to openly talk about this with your partner without her being dismissive is the first sign that something really bad is happening.
This is getting quite long but I want to also point out that the apparent speed at which her restrictions tightened shows a fairly shocking acclimation. This should lead you to the conclusion that her jealousy is not rooted in your actions at all. Things that you do (say, talking to a female cashier) could send her into a rage now, but maybe a few months prior would have been fine. This is not normal, and this is not okay. If you truly love this girl and want to stay with her, then you need to help her address these issues, because they reveal something potentially more deep-seeded than the BPD she's being treated for. No matter what you do, she will be jealous, and that is something that, should you stay with her, you need to address or live with. The silver lining here is that the reason she's probably getting jealous all the time is because she thinks she's lucky to have you, and thinks you might run off with something better if given the chance. How's that for a confidence boost?
In short, you need to decide whether you can't imagine living without this girl, or if you're just settling because you don't think you can do any better. If it's the former, then help her by forcing her to confront her issues. Tell her how she makes you feel when she places these restrictions on you. Tell her that you feel abused. Tell her that you love her and wouldn't desert her but how her trust issues and emotional turbulence place undue burden on you and whatever else they make you feel. Don't allow her to be dismissive. Your feelings are valid, and she needs to accept them. If she doesn't care about you enough to consider how you feel, then even if you can't imagine living without her, you need to try to move on. Eventually you will get over it and feel better for it.
If you're just settling, then get out, but don't be afraid to have that conversation anyway. You may end up helping her more than you know, and in the end, you will find someone better. Even if you don't think you deserve it.
Friend, I've been with a borderline. It is the highest and lowest you'll ever be. You need to get out though. People who haven't experienced this don't understand how bad it can be. They think, oh, just another crazy woman. This is not that. She's lying to her therapist as all borderlines do. You are not hen pecked in the sense that they mean. She is literally poisonous. Get out before more damage is done to you because this will not end well.
What she's doing to you is called gas lighting. Look at the number of people on this thread who have listened to what you said and their responses. We are living in reality and can reason. You are not and can not. She will not change. Best case she gets DBT at some point once her therapist figures her out (unlikely anytime soon) and she'll have some shot at living a normal life in 5-10 years. Until then you will take the brunt of everything. Even therapists often go into therapy themselves when treating borderlines, just as a safeguard. They are something else entirely. At the very least please read up and educate yourself on this disorder. Dangerous game, buddy.
We had just moved into an apartment with each other when four months in things started getting really bad. The best decision I ever made was listening to family and friends telling me to pack up my things in less than 24 hours and get out of that apartment.
You're going to feel like it's you. That you're the problem. That you aren't good enough. That the relationship can be salvaged.
If there's one thing that I can impress upon you, it's that the most unreliable narrator in this situation is you.
Is it the getting therapist to break up with her that's the bad idea (because I can see that being a bad idea)
And/or the contacting her therapist behind her back and telling him things?
Because the second part I'm unsure of, I can rationalize it both ways.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
It's everything he said in the thread. But yes, both of those statements are independently awful.
No matter what you think of a therapist's paygrade (and depending on where she is getting therapy that may be pretty low) it is NEVER high enough for them to break up with a patient on someone else's behalf. They aren't friends and they aren't allowed to get involved like that, it's incredibly inappropriate and they won't do it. The sentiment alone should tell you exactly what this guy doesn't know about therapy and the doctor-patient relationship.
Same goes for calling up someone's therapist and telling them shit. If the OP had power of attorney or legal guardianship over this girl, there may be circumstances where it is appropriate to call on her behalf and say things like "she can't make it today" or "she's dead and is never coming back." Lacking those circumstances and said legal responsibility, it is entirely inappropriate for a random person (and they've been going out little enough time that he's still a random person) to call someone else's therapist to talk shit about them.
Like, I can't form the words to say how awful every part of that post is. My vocabulary is simply lacking in this department. But I can tell you that it is probably the worst advice I've seen around here in a long time.
However, for the time being, I am going to try to make it work. The main hope I have is that I am scheduled to meet with her therapist next month, and I'm hoping that I can get the therapist to work on her controlling behaviors, and explain why they are wrong to her.
She is also attending DBT sessions, which I am optimistic about.
Also, I feel I may have not presented her side fairly, by not explaining her rationale.
The porn thing: she doesn't really masturbate, not does she see the need for it. So when I masturbate, I do it because I am bored, and also am used to daily release. However, she sees it as a sex replacement, so me looking at porn is the same as cheating in her eyes, because I am choosing to do that with porn instead of her. so, even if I won't see her for 2 more days, and haven't gotten off in 3, I should ignore my urges until I am with her.
The problem with female friends: I am somewhat to blame for this, because she went through my history and found I had looked at a lot of pictures of one of my attractive friends on facebook while we were together. I realized this was dumb and messed up, and deleted that friemd on my own, but that is partially why she doesn't believe I just see femsle friends as friends.
And finally, her reaction to me dating I feel abused: she first found this in my search history while I was at work,.and felt horrible. However, this was more violent/threatening abuse, which she has almost completely stopped. The controlling behavior, she admits is controlling, but not abusive.
I would comment on specific posts that were made, but I'm posting from my phone after working 9 hours on 1 hour of sleep, so I'll try later.
And now the attempts to rationalize it begin.
This is inexcusable behavior on her part
There's nobody that does not do this.
No, it is not. It is patently not at all messed up, in any way shape or form.
You should not have done this. This opens the door for more controlling behavior.
Do not blame yourself for this. You did not act unreasonably.
Controlling behavior is still emotional abuse. Do not think for a second that it is not.
Please. I am asking you this legitimately. Please, please, please, go. Break up. This is not a salvageable situation, it has gone on for too long and you have let too much slip. You must start over, with a clean slate, if you want any hope of making something work.
You really need to set your boundary here. Masturbation is perfectly healthy and shouldn't be considered cheating. There is nothing wrong with "window shopping." You aren't going to completely abandon your girlfriend for another girl because you like looking at attractive females for 5 seconds. What is wrong is this disgusting lack of trust. She look at your Internet history? Really? What you need to do is talk to your real friends, family, and a therapist about your relationship so you can understand what a healthy relationship looks like.
Oh, and you did a good job defending(actually, rationalizing) your gf's behavior. If not, she's read this post and can give her side of the story.
as iRevert said, you're rationalizing her behavior. Explaining it away and the only person who should be doing that is her therapist.
It's amazing that you completely glossed over your rationale behind her controlling issues: she was snooping through your history and search history.
'It's ok, she's like this because, through purposely searching my computer, she found out I was looking at pictures and porn.'
You're going to come home one day and she's going to ask you to drop trou and instead of being like "oh hells yeah" you're going to be looking around for scissors or knives and then you're going to think how incisors is really similar to the word scissors and then you'll be thinking how much pressure would it take for someone to bite through your junk and then you're going to say I should have listened to those folks who I asked advice from and now I have no dick cause my jealous, controlling, abusive wife just bit it off and then you'll wake up and realize that no one shot JR and you really ARE glad you took our advice and got the fuck out.
These things are not normal, and you don't like them, and they are making you feel bad, and then you are using them to make yourself feel even worse.
Is she sitting in on that meeting you're having with her therapist?
If you say can say "yes", or even "no, but" to any of those things, you need a lot more help than you think.
My point is the same as the others, you're attempting to rationalize it. Everyone here can agree on one thing: Her behavior is unacceptable. You can't say it's your fault because IT ISN'T. Masturbation is perfectly healthy, and you're not wrong for doing it. She has shamed you into believing that, which IS unhealthy. Other girls? Who doesn't glance at another person from time to time when they're in a relationship? You're human, you have eyes, and you can still appreciate attractiveness. It in no way means you're going to leave her (Unless you have actually actively thought about leaving her for one of these girls, at which point your relationship is still unhealthy). Instead, she has used this as a way to again, shame you into doing what she wants. She wants to be the only girl in your life, and honestly, I wouldn't put it past her that she wants to be the only PERSON in your life but can't come up with a better way to stop you from hanging out with your guy friends.
At this point you're strengthening that behavior. She has successfully manipulated you, and people don't stop manipulating overnight. Give it some time if you absolutely have to, but if things don't immediately start improving, or if they even marginally get worse, I would recommend you jump ship. She needs help, but you should not feel responsible for her, especially after the things she has done to you. There's a reason everyone here is telling you that things do not look good.
Feeling horrible about bad things they've done is a fairly common tactic for abusers. Unless it is accompanied by changes "feeling horrible" is really just "drawing you back in."
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I suppose you just need to make these mistakes so that you can learn from them.
You do have a chance here. But this isn't just gonna get magically better. It really isn't.
I have a child with the person who used to do the things your GF is doing with you so I don't get to escape completely. She used to get angry if I made eye contact with other women, like cashiers, and it was doubly worse if she thought they were "hot". She would go on about how I was emotionally cheating by smiling at or looking people in the eye. You are treading the same ground.
If you aren't gonna take the good advice given here than you just gotta sink on your own.
Good luck. Hope i'm wrong.
As with many of life's lessons, this is one you'll have to learn on your own, the hard way. If you take no other advice then at least take the following into consideration... no matter what happens you can get by in life by having a stable support system of friends and family. Chances are the OP will do everything in her power to destroy those in your life. It's up to you to keep some kind of support system independent of your girlfriend. This means your own money, transportation, and friends/family you can rely on. These things should be non-negotiable for almost anyone, but for you they are significantly more important and under no circumstances should you ever give them up.
Now that I have some time I'll expand on what I was saying.
What your doing is almost textbook behavior from someone who is abused, pretty much when confronted with the fact that they are being abused they will attempt to rationalize it and explain it so it is their fault.
First how do you think this is going to go? Just you present your side and the shrink sides with you and goes oh yeah she needs to work on this and blam rainbows shoot out of his bum and your relationship is suddenly all gumdrops and sugarpops?
So far from what you've said is that she's blamed all this on you to him/her, you are going into this as "the bad guy" and showing up a few times won't change this in his/her eyes. While your there and attempting to explain things your girlfriend is going to reflect and deny everything you say. You have given her all the leeway to get away with things and place the blame on you so far and she is going to continue to do so. She is going to deny it at the shrinks and continue to paint you out as the bad guy and then mark my words as soon as you leave she is going to go after you 10x worse than normal. HOW COULD YOU SAY _____ ABOUT ME etc etc etc.
If your not willing to step back and look at things chances are your going to continue to attempt to rationalize it and go well I guess it is my fault that I said this at the shrink and perhaps it is me.
This is her issue and not yours, what people choose to do with their bodies is no ones business but their own. If she doesn't get off (pun intended) on getting off then tough titty. She isn't a male in the full swing of his sex drive and doesn't understand that hormonal urge that we get. Provided you aren't into some seriously fucked up kinky shit that is illegal if you want to do that its your choice.
Get a hobby other than that, chronic masturbation isn't something you need to do. Things are more fulfilling if you stretch things out between releases.
Ok this Dr. Phil bullshit needs to stop. Unless you are actively jerking it with someone else in the room watching you that isn't her it isn't cheating. For you to whip out your fleshlight and put on some porn and have a fappy good time is no ones business but your own. As said before you are smack dab in the middle of your sex drive. While I'm going to say jerking it daily isn't a good idea being on a bi weekly deal is pretty much a normal thing for most men.
I'm also going to say this:
SEX IS NOT A BARGAINING CHIP, IT IS NOT A WEAPON, AND IT IS NOT SOMETHING TO BE GUILTY ABOUT
Flat out if you finish work and are tired and don't want to deal with her and just want to take matters into your own hands and go to sleep then go for it. You aren't going out looking for someone to fill those needs so you have ZERO things to feel guilty about. If you're in the mood and aren't going to see her for 2 more days fuck it crank one out.
Read that first goddamn sentence, "She went through MY history". That right there is a relationship ender for me, that is a massive invasion of privacy and she has zero fucking right to do that.
Every single dude creeps girls on (insert favorite social networking sight), the majority of men still check up on ex girlfriends for one reason or another. If you are just looking at images and not jerking it to them or actively attempting to get back into that relationship you have NOTHING to feel guilty about.
By deleting the person you're just enabled her and opened things up for her to be more controlling.
So she went through your history again? Well I guess she has zero respect for your privacy. Of course she "felt" horrible, she has a whipping boy and doesn't want to lose. Now we hear about more "violent" abuse or threats that have almost stopped, which means they still go on. You have every single red flag you possibly could have short of her getting physical with you and you refuse to acknowledge them.
I'm willing to bet that she'll find that history as well because if she has gone through your computer without any repercussions the door has been opened and no boundaries were established. Dollars to doughnuts she's looking through your phone as well.
So here is my advice.
Walk away
Walk away
Walk the fuck away.
You don't need to end it with her but get your own place, stay with a friend, or stay with your parents whatever it takes to get away from her. Take a couple of months to get away from that toxic relationship, take a good look at yourself and for the love of god grow a set and reestablish your self worth. The more you devalue yourself by saying "oh I'm overweight" or "oh I'm not the best looking" the easier you make an abusers job.
My advise is to take a break from her and cut ties with the exception of a once a week email or phone call for a couple of months. See a psychologist on your own about working on your self esteem issues and talking about this relationship. Print out what you posted and show it to the shrink and see what he says.
You need to take a step back without her and look at your life.
That is not a healthy relationship that is doing NOTHING to help your self esteem, the longer you stay in this the more the abuse will progress. The more you allow her to control you the harder it will be to leave and the more she will devalue you till you feel that she is about "as good as you could get".
Walk away.
This.
No matter how you spin it things are going to go shitty from this, it needs to be done but you are going to catch hell from it.
Take my advice here very seriously, pack a 30 second bag. It is a bag that has everything you need for a few days of living at a hotel or friends house that you can walk in the door, grab, and walk out and be gone. Make some arrangements with a friend or co-worker to crash at their place potentially if needed or set aside enough for a hotel room for a few days.
Cash, clothing, cell charger and such it doesn't have to be huge just a backpack and make sure you have your keys and wallet/phone on you. I'd recommend going in separate vehicles and if you take two different cars tossing that bag into the trunk. After the meeting you keep your keys and wallet in your pocket when you get home, if at any point things start in or get bad you walk out the door and grab the bag.
30 seconds from being in the situation to being away from it for some time. When an abusers world beings to crash down and the abuse-ee is starting to show signs of resistance and fighting back (so to speak) this can push them over the edge and change things from a "occasional threat" to actual violence.
It doesn't matter what has transgressed in the past, what matters is who has the marks on them when the police show up and as a man you are always looked at as the aggressor unless you have serious injuries. It is easier to just walk out at the first sign of trouble and give a little bit of time for things to cool down (though they never will) then to allow things to progress.
I'm going to edit this in before you can even say it or try to spin it.
There is no "male" or "female" in abuse, only the abuser and those who are abused. Men can be abused, women can be abused it doesn't matter what your sex is this happens.
I felt super shitty because I couldn't hangout with a dude who was literally a brother to me. Its not just going to effect you, but anyone she decides is deemed unworthy of sharing your attention with (which is anyone). We cant stop you from trying to make it work, but you can stop her from cutting off your friends. Continue to talk to the people you love, Please.
Abuse starts small and then builds. I'm pretty willing to bet that the beginning of that guys story looks a lot like yours and, if I remember correctly, his story ended (before he left her) with being hit in the head with a cast iron frying pan.
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Discord Hypacia#0391
It is not a good time.
You are not to blame. Her having massive trust-issues to the point where she goes through your history and then bans you from ever having any female friends because you looked a pictures of a friend? That is not your fault.
Look at this
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/105461/debate-and-discourse-awesome-post-in-crazy-girlfriendboyfriend-stories-by-thomamelas
You're on your way to this. I know you have low self esteem but please believe us when we say you would be happier alone for the rest of your life rather than living the life you're heading into.
PSN Hypacia
Xbox HypaciaMinnow
Discord Hypacia#0391
OP is living with his parents, so he's safe when he's home at least.
If you were seeking a very specific FORM of advice, like wanting to hear us tell you to work it out, then you weren't seeking advice. You were seeking validation. Do you know why people seek validation? Because they don't think what they're about to do is the right thing.
I've said everything I can. The rest of your life is in your own hands. I don't want anything more to do with it. Good luck.
What she is doing is not okay. You rationalizing it is not okay. It doesn't matter how "fairly" you're presenting the matter. If she is doing these things, for any reason, she is abusing you and controlling you in a way that is unhealthy and not okay.
If you don't mind, I'd like to break this down for you a little. Right now what you're doing is justifying her bad behavior. You're trying explain both why you deserve this and how you can make this perfect and better. Everyone of us who has a history of DV can tell you the variations we told on the same lies. Or the lies we told ourselves, how if we were just perfect then this wouldn't happen. All we need to do is be flawless. Or when period of X stressed passed, it would all be okay. Or we shouldn't have talked about our special, magical love with an outsider. And you tell those lies like they are the truth because in your mind you've lied to yourself so much that they are truth.
But you're past the point where it's just the emotional aspect. The violence has started, and honestly it sounds like there is some history of it. And she's working the strings in your head. She feels bad about that violent, threatening abuse. But I'm guessing it's not the first time you're heard it. If you stay with her it won't be the last.
And you're at this stage exactly because of her controlling behavior. She's used it to convince you to cut yourself off from the world for her. That's what the control does. You live your life in the world she defines for you. Hell right now you're allowing her to define what isn't abuse. She's said that her controlling behavior isn't abusive. So you come here to defend her.
I also know the mental calculus you're doing right now. She 'loves' you. And you're self-esteem is low so you're wondering if perhaps that bit of love is worth all of the pain. And if you get rid of her, is it going to just be emptiness. I understand that. So let me tell you what happened to me. I left my ex-wife thinking that I would be alone forever. And that would suck but I could maybe play some computer games in peace. But that's not what happened. I met a woman, and we fell in love. And she was the sweetest, nicest woman you could ever hope for. And we were together many years but it didn't work out. And so I thought I'd be alone and go through therapy. A year later I met the woman I'm with now. Who I love very deeply. And who loves me. We make each other's lives better. So that's two.
If you leave her, I promise you'll love again. And if you are a bit wiser next time, I promise you it will be a much better love then you think you have now.
So many people in this community have been where you are now, or been going down the road to where you are now. And while PA can be a hive of scum and villainy, it's a hive of scum and villainy that cares about the other members of the community. It's a community that understands that real people exist on the other side of the usernames. And it's a community that tries to look out for its own, even if it's just a bunch of text on a screen.
Everyone here has their brokenness. From that brokenness comes a desire to help others not be so broken.
But you also have to want it. And so maybe you're not ready to accept what all of us have to say. I think everyone here can probably point to at least one time in their lives when everyone around them was saying something they didn't agree with/weren't ready to hear. And if all this thread does is sits in the back of your head for now and gives you another way to look at the situation... well, then at least it's here for that.
Set your boundaries, defend them relentlessly, and never ever concede that she's allowed to make you do things you don't want to or that it's OK for her to feel bad or make you feel bad if you don't want to do what she wants.
Spend some time thinking about those boundaries. You might find it a useful exercise to write them down, and when you're finished working them out, write them out again in a nice neat list, present them to her and say this is the way it's going to be.
You might think that you're taking the easy way out but really you're taking a very difficult path. I hope it works out for you but if it doesn't, come back here and we'll be more than glad to help you out.
You seem like a very kind, giving person, but it's extremely easy for people like you to get trapped into the role of fixing what's broken about other people. Remember that there are people who are broken in ways that it's not only not your job to fix, but not within your capbilities to. The end point of the path you're on may well be that the only way you can help the girl you love is to force her to confront what's broken about her by leaving her no other option.
EDIT: And remember that she needs you more than you need her. That's what all this is about.
Not only is this true, it actually understates the case; although male-on-female DV is about twice as common, female-on-male DV is actually considerably more dangerous, because women are far more likely to use weapons like knives, guns, poison, etc., in their DV.
As soon as your first post I was waiting for this phrase to turn up and I jump to page 3 and bam there it is.
Thats how abusers work, "you are to blame for this...look what you made me do!"
Every time you try to establish boundaries shes going to tell you that you are the one who is broken, has issues with intimacy or trust, unable to love ect, which makes her behavior acceptable.
Not only can this relationship make you increasingly stressed out and miserable while you are in it, it will also have consequences even after it's over. And the longer you let this go on, the worse it will be. You may not want to end the relationship yourself, but it may end regardless of what you want, and what then? Once she has systematically isolated you from everyone else, what will you be left with? How will you deal with future relationships? I spent two years with a person who was also diagnosed with BPS. He acted exactly like you describe -- until he got worse. I eventually had the sense to end it, but even after a couple of years I find myself too traumatized to enter a serious relationship again. And I'm way older than you, with perspective from previous, mostly very healthy relationships. This kind of thing can sabotage your future for a long time, so please, think long and hard about what's best for both of you.
I don't have terrible stories to tell, wasn't really "abused" as such. And yet my first real girlfriend was overly jealous and crazy. I had constant fights with her because we lived on different cities and some weekends I went out with my friends, some of which were female. She would also get constantly offended by everything I said, it's like she needed constant arguments to enjoy the relationship. Ironically, despite her being REALLY jealous she cheated on me several times.
All through that time I thought that it was ME to blame. That I was insensitive and also that I wasn't enough for her. There was a time were I was CONVINCED that it was logical she acted that way, because she was way out of my league and she was doing me a FAVOR by being with me.
It's only with time that I realize that I didn't want to live like that. So I sent her packing with the guy he was cheating on me with. After a couple of years of self-esteem issues, excessive drinking and misoginy I managed to get over it and have a clear idea of what I wanted in a relationship. And you know what, I found it.
Picture this: you go shopping with your girlfriend and the cashier smiles at you, after you leave you tell your girlfriend "that cashier was totally into me". Your girlfriend smirks and tells you "of course she was, sweetie", sarcasm flowing from her voice. And that's it, you go home and carry on with your lives. That can and will happen to you, but seriously, you need to gather the strength to decide what you want in your life, or at least what you do not want.
It's your life, man, those 80 years are yours, don't let anyone take them away from you because they are not going to come back.
Edit: My ex-girlfriend relationship with "ratface" (the other guy) went exactly like mine. Also, we are friends now, it seems that her being a total idiot is something that she limits to relationships. I don't hate her now, I'm actually grateful that she taught me a very valuable lesson about life. Message to take home: wounds heal, there will be a point in the future when you just will not care.
I want to hug you dude. I want to wrap my arms around you and say it will all be ok, because like many others, I've been where you are. I've been abused, but refused to admit I was abused. I've walked on eggshells every day, trying so hard to be perfect because I just KNEW if I could jsut do everything right he wouldn't yell or get angry. But no matter how hard I tried, no matter what I did, he found a reason to control and rage. But I tried and tried, because I loved him, and that's what you're supposed to do right? You're supposed to forgive the one you love. Ever after he started beating me, I still tried and tried and thought it was my fault.
Paper Monitor I know you love her. But you are not happy. You can tell yourself that you are, but you know it's not true. You need to get out. Things will never change if you stay. It will just be an unending cycle of pain and promises she will never keep. You need to get out. No matter what you do, she will not stop the cycle, she will always abuse you. It is not your fault. You can never please her. She will always demand more, and more.
Please get out hon. It breaks my heart to see anyone have to go through this.
I understand what you're feeling right now. You've got so little self-esteem that you feel lucky yo be in a relationship. Plus you don't want to be a guy who ends a relationship because of the other persons disorders. Plus it's your first one and it's been over a year. Add all that up and you are wanting to do anything and everything to try and keep this girl, because you've got hope that things will change...
I pray that you realize that you're in an abusive relationship that isn't going to change when you go to the therapist. I pray that he tells you, you need to get out. Everything you've said screams abuse. Telling you what to do, what to not do. Making you feel guilty or crappy when you do something she doesn't agree with. A relationship is about compromise....and you're the only one who is compromising. And because you have no self-esteem/confidence, you're just taking it.
Are you really happy that you can't masterbate anymore? Are you happy that she's looking through your history? Telling you, you can't make friends? Is that a good relationship to you? You bring up issues and she just pushes them aside and doesn't even recognize them as problems! How can you help her fix things when she doesn't even see it as something that needs fixing?
I know it's going to be hard breaking it off, but don't think you're a jerk because you're doing it because she's got issues and you're just ditching her instead of trying to help her. Do it because she isn't in a mental state to be in a relationship right now and breaking it off will actually help her.
There is a reason why every single person on this thread is saying the same thing....I pray that you soon realize it needs to happen, stop rationalizing, and get it done. Good luck sir
You still need to get therapy for yourself. It'll help you learn how to stand up to her, set personal boundaries, and generally be a happier person and help you cope.
Also, I bet the moment you stand up for yourself, she leaves you for someone else. Because she's not looking for a partner. She's looking for someone to dump all her crazy onto.
I have an uncle who got married to a woman similar to your girlfriend. She was generally described by people as being "a little off," and gradually cut him off from friends and family. After living with my grandparents for about a year, they move out and she demands that he, nor their daughter, ever see my grandparents again. When the rest of the family reached out to him, she found out and cut him off further. Her personality and her disease turned her into a hoarder, as she became distrustful of anyone but herself and she became anxious of the idea of having anything leave the house. Since she had gradually cut off my uncle's family and friends, when things got REALLY bad, he had nowhere to go -- she had seeded him with the idea that he was worthless and deserved it.
And the sad thing about many people is that we often fixate on negativity, especially regarding ourselves. If a friend calls you "fat" once but calls you "awesome" 20 times, you remember the "fat" and don't even register the "awesomes." You have friends and family that love you, and you may not even realize how they're trying to help you. We are trying to help you, too, and we can see that you're smart and self-aware and worth helping because you already recognize what she's doing to you. She's making you feel guilty over natural things (sex, masturbating, friends of both genders) and that means whenever you even think about doing these natural things, you instantly think how you're wronging her in some way.
You need a fresh set of eyes -- your own. You need to, at the very least, take a break from this girl and talk with your friends and family, your normal support group, about what's happening and how you feel about it. They are there for you, and they want to help you.
This is the best advice yet, Paper. Your decisions are your own, but get a little space and breathing room in which to make them.
You're assuming that there is a remotely equal power dynamic in the relationship. That he can make a series of demands with a reasonable expectation that they will be listened to and respected. Best case for him trying this is that he makes the demands, she concedes for a bit then manipulates him back into being exactly where he is now.