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  • PenumbraPenumbra Registered User regular
    People with tons of alts should be their bread and butter; their desired customer. They're already hooked; they have experienced the content once and thought "let’s do that again, but differently this time". They are the people who will level for the experience of leveling, or for the ability to have a stable of different guild ability offerings. I currently have a 90 shaman, a 90 druid, an 87 warrior, an 85 lock, hunter, paladin, and mage. They should want me to finish off leveling because it will keep me subscribed for another X months.

    Instead, because of the hassle involved with valor gear being gated behind rep requirements and the terribleness of the LFR there is a very real possibility I will move on. I've been playing MMOs (and enjoying them!) since Everquest. WoW at the moment seems like there is too much minutia management to enjoy, and I can spend the time elsewhere without feeling like I've been shit upon.

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  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    I feel like we all need to direct these very well-articulated points to Blizzard. I mean how do the epeen kids get their whining heard? Can't we do that?

    It's sort of like writing to your congressman. Nobody but crazies do it, but it's how shit gets done.

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  • TehSlothTehSloth Hit Or Miss I Guess They Never Miss, HuhRegistered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    I completely agree. I played back in the beta and for the first 2 years. Very spotty since then. I have seen Onyxia once back then, and I think Ragnaros once. I killed Rag the second time a couple of weeks ago. I have done ZG 20, AQ 20 and that is it. I have done no other raids. ever. Now I have the chance and can even solo most of the old stuff. And it is awesome. You are right, Blizzard should push more in that direction.

    My "guild" (3 people) is going through WotLK and getting all the guild achievements in the dungeons. It's easy and quick, but it's the most fun we've had playing together in a long time.

    I might have to pull some friends in to do this, I've only ever played occasionally, and usually for just a month or so after a year of being out of it, but I've been lucky enough to see probably more than half of the raid content but I'd love to see the stuff I never finished because I wasn't playing at the time when it was being done. AQ, Naxx, the end of ulduar, pretty much all of cataclysm.

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    rDe1y.png

    Blammo. Now, how much of a drop rate increase are we talking?

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Well, 2 x 0 is still 0. :P

    But this is a step in the right direction.

  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    They have done this. They did it in Vanilla and most of TBC. It was terrible. So terrible that blizzard has said on mulitiple occasions how terrible it was, and have actively moved far far away from it because it was so bad.
    I had to run freaking MC, BWL, AQ40, Naxx, ZG, ZA, and 47 Mara's every week until the 2.0 patch where it was WOOOOO HONOR EPICS. I can't believe they think that's the right direction. Edit: I meant AQ20, not ZA.
    Alts are something they should be pushing harder, and making things more accessible to alts are what is going to be the key to getting players to stick around.
    ^^^^^^ x 1000. Even my friends who HATE alts have at least 2 characters they dick around on. Why they aren't encouraging it is mind boggling. If you have someone with limited playtime with 2 characters that can do all the LFR content, you're pretty much guaranteed that sub.

    I mean, after the new LFR tier comes out, I'll probably still do the old one anyway. Why? Not because loot, but because LFR isn't some bullshit heroic wipeathon where you're working on the same asinine boss for 4 hours, you just kind of hit stuff and it dies. It's relaxing and fun.

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  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    Ok - so Naxxramas isn't as easy as I thought it was. And ignoring all the trash leading up to Patchwerk gets you killed pretty hard, pretty fast. Well - it was worth a try.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Just as another example of this, my wife and I just came back to this game to have some casual fun playing. In Cata we did the 5 man thing and LFR when it was put in, and had a good time. We just don't really care for the scheduling/time investment of progression raiding in a guild any more so it was nice. When a new tier of 5 mans would come out with sweet gear and the ability to get new gear with justice/valor it was always fun.

    Reading this thread and the model they want to go back to where getting to max level will mean we're just doing the oldest LFRs possibly for who knows how long just to get drops to get to move on to the next, then the next sounds awful and is really discouraging to me. If I can do the older LFRs to see the content that's great, but if I can't do 5 mans and get geared up relatively quickly to see the most recent content, it may just drive me away again.

  • EumerinEumerin Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Oh, on the topic of metrics stuff, another thing the blues have been doing lately is saying that X activities are really popular with players (dailies, 2s arenas, etc.), but invariably those activities are either the only or the easiest way to obtain some sort of rewards. And yet they also have been shooting down various suggestions for years because then Y would become the best way to do something and players would feel "forced" to do it.

    So apparently it's OK for people to be pigeonholed into activities, but only the activities that the devs deem appropriate.

    Unfortunately, this has been Blizzard's attitude from the start. They've managed to cover it up at times and actually get things to work in a manner that players like. But make no mistake - the attitude from the start has always been that Blizzard knows better than the players.

    Case in point is the evolution of what eventually became LFD. It started out because players wanted a simple way to /LFG tag themselves when you did a /who. Everquest had it. FFXI has a fairly simple implementation that is also probably the single most versatile version that I've ever seen. We're not talking rocket science here. But no, Blizzard was smarter than that. Blizzard would do it *better*. So while there was an /LFG tag that you could use for a while in beta shortly before the game went live, Blizzard yanked it. And despite player requests, they never put it back into the game.

    Instead, halfway through Vanilla, we got "Meeting Stones". They're those big rocks with a glowing rune on them that you find outside the entrance of every instance in the game. These days, you use them to summon players to the dungeon entrance from the other side of the world (if you're not using LFD). Originally, you went to the meeting stone and clicked on it. That would automatically queue you up into a group for that dungeon. Then you went on your merry way around the world and eventually ended up in a group. So kind of like LFD now, except that there were a couple of issues. The first and most important was that Blizzard didn't want people standing around forever waiting for a group. So the logic that the stones used would get more and more permissive as time elapsed without you finding a group. So it's definition of what might constitute a viable "tank" or "healer" would get more and more loose as time went on, and after waiting an hour or so you might find yourself in a party composed of a mage, rogue, warlock, lolret paladin(the only viable paladin build at the time was Holy - Ret was a joke, and Protection kept getting changed every time someone figured out a semi-viable tank build; Blizzard comments toward the end of vanilla seemed to suggest that this pigeonholing was *intentional*), and cat druid. Obviously, this particular party would have problems... And that (plus the tendency to get complete noobs in your party for five-man instances that could last over an hour in some cases) led to the second issue - players almost immediately stopped using the meeting stones to find parties. iirc, the meeting stones couldn't initially summon other party members (you had to rely on warlocks for that - assuming that you had one; and that three or more of your party members weren't hanging out back in your capitol waiting for two other party members to go assist the increasingly irritated warlock who was probably the first person to reach the instance entrance). Instead, that was added later on in an attempt to justify the presence of all the magic-looking rocks that no one was using outside of each instance.

    Mid-way during TBC, Blizzard revisited the issue. But once again, Blizzard couldn't take the simple solution. Oh, no. Blizzard was *smarter* than the players. Blizzard added some LFG functionality, but it had problems. iirc (the details are a bit hazy now that it's been so long), it was a pop-up panel. You input the reason why you wanted a group, which was typically for either instances or a specific quest. If the latter, then you picked a quest out of your quest journal that you wanted to complete. No one ever used that part of it. If you wanted an instance, then you could pick up to three - and only up to three - instances that you wanted to run. No comments were allowed. Nor was there a general "I'll run any instance" option. Then, when you wanted to find a group, you could open the LFM (looking for more) panel and populate your party with people who were looking for the same things you were. It was an improvement, but there were still issues. First of all, no one used the quest part of it. Second, you could only list up to three instances in your LFG option. So if you had half a dozen instances that you were willing to run, well, sorry. You could only pick three of them. And that meant that you picked your favorite three instances which, unsurprisingly, turned out to be everyone elses' favorite three instances. Which meant that, in total, everyone was looking for groups to run the same few instances. And that meant that if you were looking to fill out the membership of your group, and you weren't looking for members for one of those few instances, you were out of luck. The LFG panel didn't show anyone wanting to run your instance.

    Blizzard finally got LFD done right when they introduced the version that arrived with ICC. But in the meantime the players had to put up with a bunch of nonsense that could have easily been avoided by the simple introduction of an /LFG tag and a comment line in the /who field.

    But Blizzard couldn't have allowed something so silly like that. They're smarter than that, after all. Their ideas are *better* than the ones their plebian players come up with.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I really don't understand why they apparently don't want to release new five mans, except perhaps that they take much longer to produce than just like, another new daily area. The new five mans patches seem to be one of the most popular things in every expansion for obvious reasons, and with the new challenge mode tech people will get more use out of them than they did in previous iterations.

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    and yeah most of the trash in naxx is linked to bosses, because fuck if you should be allowed to skip any part of that worthless instance I guess

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    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • PenumbraPenumbra Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Another nice quality of life change I would like, to have the LFR queue work more like the LFD queue once you complete them all. It is straight up bullshit that I can only queue for one of five possible instances at a time, and sit there for upwards of 40 minutes, unless you bring a healer.

    I also wonder how many people will continue to do lfr 5.0 once lfr 5.2 is available. Assuming you can move onto the next tier with ilevel 486, what other than moderately easy to acquire valor points will bring me back once the next content patch is released. Since I'm not supposed to gear up in the lfr difficulty.

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    Penumbra wrote: »
    Another nice quality of life change I would like, to have the LFR queue work more like the LFD queue once you complete them all. It is straight up bullshit that I can only queue for one of five possible instances at a time, and sit there for upwards of 40 minutes, unless you bring a healer.

    I also wonder how many people will continue to do lfr 5.0 once lfr 5.2 is available. Assuming you can move onto the next tier with ilevel 486, what other than moderately easy to acquire valor points will bring me back once the next content patch is released. Since I'm not supposed to gear up in the lfr difficulty.

    Yeah I was just thinking yesterday when I was cleaning them up with my pally, why can't I queue for a bunch at once? It is pretty silly.

    I imagine it has something to do with the system they use to fill it up but....why?

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  • SaraLunaSaraLuna Registered User regular
    5-mans have always been my favorite group content. and while lfr is great in concept, it's pretty shitty that they seem to be taking the place of 5-man content in endgame

  • Kid PresentableKid Presentable Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    I really don't understand why they apparently don't want to release new five mans, except perhaps that they take much longer to produce than just like, another new daily area. The new five mans patches seem to be one of the most popular things in every expansion for obvious reasons, and with the new challenge mode tech people will get more use out of them than they did in previous iterations.

    My subscription history can be directly traced back to content patches that include new dungeons, and gear catch-up methods. I always stop paying, and then I always come back when they release new dungeons for me to gear up in because I like gearing up in such a manner. LFR has never been an option in the past, so maybe new raids will fill this same role but they certainly feel way less rewarding from a "get new stuff!" standpoint than new dungeons do. Its also not entirely unusual for a new raid tier to come out without a new dungeon tier I don't think, so maybe they can do the catch-up thing with dungeons in 5.3?

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Has anyone tried solo'ing ZG at 90? Or ZA; but ZG I think would be harder.

    Just curious about Mandokir's mechanics if you're solo.

    EDIT: haha doing the ZG/ZA leadins on my monk for shits and xp, and all the Rebel Camp NPC's are upgraded to 90 and are just laying waste to the spawning adds.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    and yeah most of the trash in naxx is linked to bosses, because fuck if you should be allowed to skip any part of that worthless instance I guess
    To be fair, that was pretty reasonable when the place was current content (both times). The wide-open design, which got a lot of well-deserved praise back in the day, led to some areas where a raid could easily just walk past a lot of trash (case in point: the slime river room that Patch patrols). Considering since then most raids have just been designed mostly with corridors of unskippable trash, I think it was a nice change in design.

    I haven't been in there in ages, but is there really that much boss-linked trash? I seem to remember my raids avoiding a patrol or two before a lot of bosses. Besides Patchwerk, which bosses require you to clear the trash before them?

    forty on
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    and yeah most of the trash in naxx is linked to bosses, because fuck if you should be allowed to skip any part of that worthless instance I guess
    To be fair, that was pretty reasonable when the place was current content (both times). The wide-open design, which got a lot of well-deserved praise back in the day, led to some areas where a raid could easily just walk past a lot of trash. Considering since then most raids have just been designed mostly with corridors of unskippable trash, I think it was a nice change in design.

    I haven't been in there in ages, but is there really that much boss-linked trash? I seem to remember my raids avoiding a patrol or two before a lot of bosses. Besides Patchwerk, which bosses require you to clear the trash before them?

    No, not all the bosses are linked. I actually can't think of any besides patchwerk. I was just in there last week cleaning up the 10m achievements, and we skipped a lot of the trash all over.

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Grobulus does too.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    rDe1y.png

    Blammo. Now, how much of a drop rate increase are we talking?
    Considering it's 15% right now, it'll probably be some pathetic increase to like 20% in 5.2.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Grobulus does too.
    I was thinking Grobulus probably did since the trash is right there in the same area where you fight him. Most the bosses are in their own rooms, and even some of the ones who aren't like Razuvious still seem to have a lot of skippable trash.

    Out of curiosity, do the frogger slimes one-shot 90s or can you just waltz through them now?

  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited January 2013
    forty wrote: »
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Grobulus does too.
    I was thinking Grobulus probably did since the trash is right there in the same area where you fight him. Most the bosses are in their own rooms, and even some of the ones who aren't like Razuvious still seem to have a lot of skippable trash.

    Out of curiosity, do the frogger slimes one-shot 90s or can you just waltz through them now?

    Not one shot, but 2-3 depending on your health. EDIT: I may be thinking of the acid in patchwerks room actually. I'm not sure if anyone took a slime.

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    Also booty bay needs to clean their shit up.

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  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    forty wrote: »
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Grobulus does too.
    I was thinking Grobulus probably did since the trash is right there in the same area where you fight him. Most the bosses are in their own rooms, and even some of the ones who aren't like Razuvious still seem to have a lot of skippable trash.

    Out of curiosity, do the frogger slimes one-shot 90s or can you just waltz through them now?

    Not one shot, but 2-3 depending on your health. EDIT: I may be thinking of the acid in patchwerks room actually. I'm not sure if anyone took a slime.

    The acid is like a -40% to all stats or something. It drops your stamina super low so it looks like you took a lot of damage since that's what your max stamina was while you were in the pool. I seem to recall it bringing me down around 50% hp (edit: Actually, probably 60% if my first % was correct :P), but since it's a stat drop and not an actual damage drop you can sit in it and not die, or leave and go back in without taking additional dmg. You just come out at that same-ish hp mark.

    I don't know what the frogger slimes do but I would guess it's reasonably high still. The raid is still level 80 (only 10 levels down) and it's meant to kill a level 80 player. That's going to be at least 30k-50k or something, and they may have jacked up the damage to cover their bases.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    If it's like 50k, then that passes my definition of a 90 being able to waltz through them. It's just that some of those old level 70/80 "one-shot" mechanics had numbers that would barely kill a non-cooldowned tank or something (50k-100k usually), while others did legitimately shit huge damage, a million or more. Also I think some things have an actual deathtouch mechanic that always does your max health in damage.

  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    Because I made the mistake of accidentally clicking on a link to the WoW forums instead of just a blue post...

    In case anyone was curious, we're all wrong. We should be thrilled that we have the privledge to see any content at all, and shouldn't complain about LFR loot drop rates, linear progression, or ilvl requirements (whatever it ends up being) for 5.2 raids. In fact LFR ruins the game for 'real raiders' and the fact that it gives plebs any loot at all is also ruining the game. Ruining!

    So says the official forums!

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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Has anyone tried solo'ing ZG at 90? Or ZA; but ZG I think would be harder.

    Just curious about Mandokir's mechanics if you're solo.

    EDIT: haha doing the ZG/ZA leadins on my monk for shits and xp, and all the Rebel Camp NPC's are upgraded to 90 and are just laying waste to the spawning adds.

    Mandokir's mechanic is you die, then the fight is over. DKs might be able to pull it off with army of the dead or something, if they got very lucky.

    I was able to solo the panther boss.
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    Ok - so Naxxramas isn't as easy as I thought it was. And ignoring all the trash leading up to Patchwerk gets you killed pretty hard, pretty fast. Well - it was worth a try.

    Yeah you need to be a bit tanky to deal with Patchwerk, he can still pump out a respectable amount of damage in the time it takes you to kill him. (I've been running all the raid pets every week since the patch)

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Has anyone tried solo'ing ZG at 90? Or ZA; but ZG I think would be harder.

    Just curious about Mandokir's mechanics if you're solo.

    EDIT: haha doing the ZG/ZA leadins on my monk for shits and xp, and all the Rebel Camp NPC's are upgraded to 90 and are just laying waste to the spawning adds.

    Mandokir's mechanic is you die, then the fight is over. DKs might be able to pull it off with army of the dead or something, if they got very lucky.

    I was able to solo the panther boss.

    Ah, yeah, what I was wondering is if it'd still outright kill you if you were solo; or if like some bosses they won't do certain effects if you're alone, like MC's. Ah well, suppose I'll have to bring along someone if I want to try for the mount. Too bad.

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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Has anyone tried solo'ing ZG at 90? Or ZA; but ZG I think would be harder.

    Just curious about Mandokir's mechanics if you're solo.

    EDIT: haha doing the ZG/ZA leadins on my monk for shits and xp, and all the Rebel Camp NPC's are upgraded to 90 and are just laying waste to the spawning adds.

    Mandokir's mechanic is you die, then the fight is over. DKs might be able to pull it off with army of the dead or something, if they got very lucky.

    I was able to solo the panther boss.

    Ah, yeah, what I was wondering is if it'd still outright kill you if you were solo; or if like some bosses they won't do certain effects if you're alone, like MC's. Ah well, suppose I'll have to bring along someone if I want to try for the mount. Too bad.

    Terracotta Warrior might work.

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  • Enosh20Enosh20 Registered User regular
    Nosf wrote: »
    The solution is staring you all in the face, and I see it in every LFR - grind honor for poorly itemized PVP gear to skate past the level limits! PROBLEM SOLVED!
    fuck I completely forgot about pvp, that gear has to get upgraded each patch to match the current tier
    so yeah I guess that is what a lot of people will be doing

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    That reminds me that I wonder which way they'll be going with honor gear in 5.2/Season 13. Will it be the 483 conquest gear or will it get a half-tier bump or so to 489/490 like they did in Cata?

    Or will Blizzard anticipate people grinding BGs to get honor gear to progress into 5.2 content and nerf the shit out of it to compensate, since Blizzard is pretty good about disincentivizing people from feeling they "have to" do BGs by making the rewards shit (see: no honor weapons this season based on ridiculously fallacious logic)?

  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    Because I made the mistake of accidentally clicking on a link to the WoW forums instead of just a blue post...

    In case anyone was curious, we're all wrong. We should be thrilled that we have the privledge to see any content at all, and shouldn't complain about LFR loot drop rates, linear progression, or ilvl requirements (whatever it ends up being) for 5.2 raids. In fact LFR ruins the game for 'real raiders' and the fact that it gives plebs any loot at all is also ruining the game. Ruining!

    So says the official forums!

    I've often wondered what it is that makes official forums so...horrible. Especially the Battle.net ones which are not only a harbor for terrible opinions (the above "real raiders" stuff, or the ones who actually defended the Diablo 3 designer for saying "Fuck that loser" about the Diablo 1-2 creator) but also where virtually any post is going to get flamed by someone who staunchly holds the opposite opinion and will fight you to the death over it.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    mandokir hits for like a million, so probably not survivable even for most tanks. Which is really too bad because I'd like to solo for the raptor.

    and naxx may or may not have been defensible back at 60, but by the time wrath rolled around it was obviously terrible. Some of the bosses were okay (although lots were awful), but the trash was just abysmal, especially compared to the stuff their were designing fresh at the time.

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    it was the smallest on the list but
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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Incidentally, has anyone tried to solo a timed ZA at 90? I would think I could do it with my dk, but bosses would be the slow point, dps wise. Trash would give so much vengeance that they'd just go down super fast I think?

    EDIT: Also I just learned that you can do LFD while in queue for LFR.

    Not terribly useful, since LFD queues for DPS are similar to LFR ones; and healers have super fast queues for both.

    But I can, for instance, queue for LFR as DPS on my DK then get instant LFD queues as a tank; get my VP for the day out of the way while waiting for LFR.

    I knew you could with scenarios, but for some reason I thought LFD/LFR were mutually exclusive queues. Were they not in 4.3?

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Lars wrote: »
    Because I made the mistake of accidentally clicking on a link to the WoW forums instead of just a blue post...

    In case anyone was curious, we're all wrong. We should be thrilled that we have the privledge to see any content at all, and shouldn't complain about LFR loot drop rates, linear progression, or ilvl requirements (whatever it ends up being) for 5.2 raids. In fact LFR ruins the game for 'real raiders' and the fact that it gives plebs any loot at all is also ruining the game. Ruining!

    So says the official forums!

    I've often wondered what it is that makes official forums so...horrible. Especially the Battle.net ones which are not only a harbor for terrible opinions (the above "real raiders" stuff, or the ones who actually defended the Diablo 3 designer for saying "Fuck that loser" about the Diablo 1-2 creator) but also where virtually any post is going to get flamed by someone who staunchly holds the opposite opinion and will fight you to the death over it.

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    Smrtnik on
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    ugh heroic will to 15%

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    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    ugh heroic will to 15%
    Thats an annoying one, we did it once and skip ever since. Tonight was the night of dozen <1% heroic 25 lei shi wipes

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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    I feel like we all need to direct these very well-articulated points to Blizzard. I mean how do the epeen kids get their whining heard? Can't we do that?

    It's sort of like writing to your congressman. Nobody but crazies do it, but it's how shit gets done.

    Way back in high school I wrote my senator because you need them to help get into certain schools but I really did get to meet them!
    Because I was forced to take Civics again with the foreign exchange students we had the other senator talk to the class and answer questions. I had asked him a question about trade relations and basic human rights that made him go white and studder.
    A month later I had my meeting with the one I wrote. He took the time at the begining to thank me for my interest in goverment and asking that question because no one had the balls to do so

    on the other hand talking to anyone in Goverment where I live now is impossible. The governorshined a light into the rather dark sections of goverment and saw them stare back



    I do think they read this forum from time to time because it's a far easier section to paruse than the whole of the wow forum

    I try not to go the wow forum anymore

  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    Because I made the mistake of accidentally clicking on a link to the WoW forums instead of just a blue post...

    In case anyone was curious, we're all wrong. We should be thrilled that we have the privledge to see any content at all, and shouldn't complain about LFR loot drop rates, linear progression, or ilvl requirements (whatever it ends up being) for 5.2 raids. In fact LFR ruins the game for 'real raiders' and the fact that it gives plebs any loot at all is also ruining the game. Ruining!

    So says the official forums!

    I'm not sure if I should start this again, but: I hear that opinion a lot and I can understand it. I'm not saying it's right, or my opinion, but it's certainly not far out from any serious argument like you make it out to be. It is a fact that 'real raids' are dying. Even world-first raids (see paragon going 10man), but more importantly the mass of mediocre or weak raids. There are certainly more servers with like 1 or 2 progressing 25man raids per side than servers where there is a healthy raid scene. And a big reason (but not the only reason) for that is that people can progress without 'real raids' and see all the content through LFR. So from the perspective of someone who likes 'real raids', and they are decidedly different than LFR, LFR kills his game.

    It's really no different than people complaining about the removal of rep-tabards: They prefer one way to play and Blizz made it worse.

  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    Got started on Heroic Blade Lord tonight, goddamn that dot hits like a truck. Temporal Shield basically breaks it but goddamn that hurts.

    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
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