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Diablo III: Patch 1.07 preview up!

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Posts

  • HooverFanHooverFan NCRegistered User regular
    wait... people actually had issues with molten more than plagued? let me find these dickholes and proceed to let THEM stand in 6 pools of plagued that only show as one and then ask if they still think molten is hard

    BNet profile: HooverFish#1668
    PSN: HooverFanPA
    Steam: HooverFan
  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    Sokpuppet wrote: »
    Because he's STUPID rich now.

    How so? The screenshot indicates a sell value of 3870! >:-)

    pC8jf5t4eWCDKcMu.jpg

    Battle.net: Phender#1108 -- Steam: Phender -- PS4: Phender12 -- Origin: Phender01
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    I would still rather see a big reduction or complete removal of reflect damage. as a mechanic it makes absolutely no sense to have it in this game. even with this change it can still pull the same bullshit that iron maiden did because it will unpredictably reactivate.

    Jars on
  • farbekriegfarbekrieg Registered User regular
    wtf im confused about the direction the creative staff is taking

    we dont want you to farm the shit out of bosses we want champs elites to be main source of blah blah blah

    what... did we say farm elites/champs we meant farm the shit out of bosses because fuck you, thats why.

    Im not against the idea (actually im for it) but come on guys pick a direction and stick to it. It makes me wonder how much vision they really have at the top (yes ive read why I should have no trust in jay wilson but i ya know)
    I_want_to_believe_wallpaper_by_Pencilshade.png

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    sold my witching hour and some other stuff which leaves me with the question of where to throw my gold at

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Jars-1772/hero/7618119

    thinking neck but I would lose the all res almost for sure. might get a better zuni ring

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    I think this stuff sounds pretty great all around. Cautiously optimistic about the crafting stuff until I see the details - specifically, the gold costs. If they've learned anything it will be very cheap, with Demonic Essence being the real cost. It's strange that they're just adding all this on top of the old useless crafting system which remains untouched... My guess is that they're just testing the waters and will go whole-hog on this new approach if it's successful. I'm guessing the reason they added a new type of Essence is so they can tie its drops to MP, unlike salvaging. If so they should just remove salvaging entirely along with the entire old crafting system IMO.

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    farbekrieg wrote: »
    wtf im confused about the direction the creative staff is taking

    we dont want you to farm the shit out of bosses we want champs elites to be main source of blah blah blah

    what... did we say farm elites/champs we meant farm the shit out of bosses because fuck you, thats why.

    Im not against the idea (actually im for it) but come on guys pick a direction and stick to it. It makes me wonder how much vision they really have at the top (yes ive read why I should have no trust in jay wilson but i ya know)
    I_want_to_believe_wallpaper_by_Pencilshade.png

    A 50% droprate per boss kill is "farming the shit out of bosses"? They're basically freebies. Probably they just made it loot so it's a little cooler to find them.

    Zek on
  • SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    I think this stuff sounds pretty great all around. Cautiously optimistic about the crafting stuff until I see the details - specifically, the gold costs. If they've learned anything it will be very cheap, with Demonic Essence being the real cost. It's strange that they're just adding all this on top of the old useless crafting system which remains untouched... My guess is that they're just testing the waters and will go whole-hog on this new approach if it's successful. I'm guessing the reason they added a new type of Essence is so they can tie its drops to MP, unlike salvaging. If so they should just remove salvaging entirely along with the entire old crafting system IMO.

    D3's crafting system is like something out of the early 90's. Had no business even being in the game when it wasn't even as sophisticated as D2's relatively primitive system.

    Kinda wish they'd just copied Median's, which was fantastic.

  • WydrionWydrion Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    I like a lot of the changes but it's not enough to bring me back to the game.

    Marquise gems - arbitrary number inflation to give off the illusion of content
    Higher stats on account bound items - see above

    Crafting system is still 99% useless besides these unique patterns that they said are just Archon items, so not even a different visual.

    Dueling is segregated away from the actual game by porting you to a closed off arena, I would have rather had it integrated into the maps we currently use.

    Reflect damage - "Thanks for beta testing this affix for us when we added it to Siegebreaker, it's been properly implemented now. Hope you didn't quit the game or anything...!"

    Exp increase to monster power - Eh. I mean, it makes sense. It kind of shits on people that spent weeks at their computer mindlessly grinding paragon to 100, but that's their fault.

    Pickup radius - I feel like this wasn't worth mentioning without telling us what it was increased by.

    Wydrion on
  • shwaipshwaip Registered User regular
    Just found an upgrade for my WD :)

    newAmmy.png

  • SavantSavant Simply Barbaric Registered User regular
    farbekrieg wrote: »
    wtf im confused about the direction the creative staff is taking

    we dont want you to farm the shit out of bosses we want champs elites to be main source of blah blah blah

    what... did we say farm elites/champs we meant farm the shit out of bosses because fuck you, thats why.

    Im not against the idea (actually im for it) but come on guys pick a direction and stick to it. It makes me wonder how much vision they really have at the top (yes ive read why I should have no trust in jay wilson but i ya know)
    I_want_to_believe_wallpaper_by_Pencilshade.png

    Er...the patterns are what drop off of bosses at a high rate at max stacks, not the reagents. So you'll farm bosses for a bit until you get the patterns you need, then go back to elites.

  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2013
    Some random thoughts on the 1.0.7 patch notes:

    PVP

    "The game doesn't keep score and there are no objectives."

    Oh, good. So the people who bitched about pvp will Duel four times, become upset that they don't get any rewards, and then return to complaining about the lack of pvp. Fantastic.


    Item Hunting
    "One of the most common requests we get from players is that they'd like to find more items (through drops or crafting) that are as awesome as those that they can get from the Auction House."

    And rather than explain to these fucking geese how randomly generated loot functions, and then tell them to piss off to WoW, we're going to appease their moronic, baseless, fundamentally-at-odds-with-Diablo's-core-gear-mechanic desires.

    "So, working off this design, in 1.0.7 we're adding a new set of Rare crafting recipes that will create account-bound gloves, pants, wrists, a chest piece, and an amulet."

    Because when you spend time developing a gold auction house and a real money auction house, in order to maintain profit despite the free-to-play model, it's best to shoot yourself in the fucking knees and completely undermine the utility of these item trading features.

    "These new items will have six affixes and feature a primary stat (Str, Dex, Int, Vit) that extends higher than what is currently available in the respective slots."

    Ok. Well. Fuck item farming. Hellooooo crafting material farming.

    "but also have a 50% chance to drop off the following bosses when you have five stacks of Nephalem Valor"

    Because when we said "we don't want players to repeatedly farm bosses" we were drunk off our asses. Like, fucking wasted, bros.

    "Players often ask why their Sentry or Hydra doesn't inherit their Critical Hit Chance and Critical Hit Damage. The answer is that we want players to be able to build their characters in different ways, and we would rather Critical Hit Chance and Critical Hit Damage weren’t always automatically the right answer."

    That's a very verbose way of saying, "Because FUCK YOU, that's why!"

    "The current design is that these gems can be combined at the Jeweler for a substantial reagent and gold cost (3 Radiant Star gems, 20 million gold, and 1 Demonic Essence)"

    So, you won't be making them. And no one you know will be making them. Have fun buying them from dupers!

    Monster Power
    "Players are playing at a variety of Monster Power levels"

    This is just fucking funny. There are 11 possible MP levels. Exactly how many levels do players need to routinely use for it to count as a "variety"?

    "(For example, you wouldn’t want a severely undergeared character to join your Monster Power 6 game and constantly die. That can be very hindering to an otherwise powerful group.)"

    And fuck if we're going to incorporate a gear assessment system that prevents people with shitty gear from entering games with MP levels higher than their current gear....or allow the player who makes the Public Game the option of specifiying a gear level requirement for the game. I mean, we did that automated thing with WoW...and it worked out...but...hey look a bee!

    "here’s a little note on design philosophy. . . ."

    This will be good.

    "People often ask what the intention of Monster Power is."

    And we reply by spouting nonsensical bullshit that fundamentally contradicts previous public statements / blue posts / AMA responses, etc. Because consistency is difficult.

    "we think there’s a real risk that if the most efficient path for XP or item farming involves playing on the highest Monster Power setting available regardless of the gameplay experience, then the game might actually become a lot less fun for a lot of people."

    And rather than fucking test that theory by releasing sample content on the PTR, and assessing player feedback, we're going to privileged our baseless speculations and appeal to our Blizzard Decision Making Board:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPyOvxpZ_xE

    "What if we made every monster on Monster Power 10 worth 5000x more experience? In that case, killing even one monster in Monster Power 10 would be worth hours of play at Monster Power 1."

    But since that would be fucking awesome we aren't doing it.

    "the game can start to feel extremely tedious as you spend a lot of time attacking a monster that takes forever to die"

    This unlike the tedium of Alkaizer runs.

    "We believe that Diablo shines when you can spend the majority of your time slaughtering hordes of enemies and then having that punctuated by the occasional difficulty spike either in the form of a particularly challenging set of normal monsters (like an elite pack) or a boss."

    Because people fucking hated Diablo 2 Baal / Mephisto runs. I mean, no one played that game. It was terrible.

    "We're going to monitor how things play out on PTR and make adjustments as necessary."

    But don't think that our ability to test THIS on the PTR indicates that we could have tested PVP Arenas, or even higher xp / item rewards for higher MP levels, on the PTR. They're totally different...because...we say they are. Also? Fuuuuuuuuck you!


    Monster Changes

    "Monsters with this affix will now pulse a damage reflection shield on and off."

    Because after we listened to player's specific complaints about reflect damage we decided that the best course of action was to ignore their complaints, imagine a different problem, and then solve the problem we imagined. We find that this strategy has worked so far. Remember how players said they wanted a gear swap button, and so we added 100 new character levels instead? Yeah, this is like that.


    Quality of Life Changes

    "With the removal of enrage timers in the previous patch and the emphasis on players selecting their level of challenge via the Monster Power system, long resurrection timers no longer serve a useful purpose."

    Read: We changed our design philosophy twice before, and now we have to change it again to accomodate the changes we already made. Change Change Modify Backpeddle Contradict Change.

    "We still want a meaningful pickup radius to be a gearing choice, so the buff to the base pickup radius is modest. Many players may not even notice."

    Ok, we didn't actually change the base pickup radius at all. That's why we didn't tell you the specific numerical increase. We're just saying we changed it so that the people complaining about pickup radius think it changed. Just, trust us, it's better this way.


    GAH!

    _J_ on
  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    Good sounding changes, though I don't have a horse in the race any more :P (Someone who still plays should feel free to make the next OP.)

    Still no word on how they're going to change OWE, or even a statement saying they've gone back on that design decision. You really need to stop promising things you don't deliver on Blizzard, it makes you look like liars :rotate:

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
    ladi.png
  • ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    farbekrieg wrote: »
    wtf im confused about the direction the creative staff is taking

    we dont want you to farm the shit out of bosses we want champs elites to be main source of blah blah blah

    what... did we say farm elites/champs we meant farm the shit out of bosses because fuck you, thats why.

    Im not against the idea (actually im for it) but come on guys pick a direction and stick to it. It makes me wonder how much vision they really have at the top (yes ive read why I should have no trust in jay wilson but i ya know)
    I_want_to_believe_wallpaper_by_Pencilshade.png

    I think you might be misunderstanding the changes, because the new crafting stuff is completely in line with their extant philosophy about de-emphasizing bosses as the "best" source of loot. What they have consistently said they want to avoid is players teleporting straight to Durance of Hate 3 past every monster and killing only Mephisto. Or, especially, shit like Pindleskin runs.

    These changes do not encourage the "farming the shit out of bosses". The bosses drop recipes at a %50 chance with a 5 stack. You still have to actually get the 5 stack in the first place, and 50% is a very generous drop rate for a recipe, which you only need to find a single time ever. They're not making you run these bosses continuously to get the materials, just enough to find the recipes for the full set of the account bound Archon Armor, and even then they also say that the recipes drop in the world if you don't want to kill Leoric a bunch.

    The items that you DO need as materials to actually craft these items, Demonic Essence, are drops from Elites out in the wild.

    Scosglen on
  • Idx86Idx86 Long days and pleasant nights.Registered User regular
    I'm a fan of this patch, and will probably pick up D3 again in a bit. Got a little sidetracked with some games I picked up during the Steam sale. But the Diablo grind is a marathon, not a sprint. At least in my eyes, and that's why it's fun to play. :)

    sig.gif

    2008, 2012, 2014 D&D "Rare With No Sauce" League Fantasy Football Champion!
  • bobsbarricadesbobsbarricades Registered User regular
    haven't played since new year. log in and before I get to 5 stacks I drop a leg (seems to always happen before I get to 5 stacks)

    e68.png

    is just about as bad as can get but whateves. legendary!

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Wow, those patch notes are care bear as fuck.

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Wow _J_, I don't know if I've ever disagreed more with a post of yours, and that's saying something.
    _J_ wrote: »
    Some random thoughts on the 1.0.7 patch notes:

    PVP

    "The game doesn't keep score and there are no objectives."

    Oh, good. So the people who bitched about pvp will Duel four times, become upset that they don't get any rewards, and then return to complaining about the lack of pvp. Fantastic.

    You mean sort of exactly like PvP was in Diablo 2? Real PvP is coming some day, this is for people who want to make their own metagame out of it. Only thing it's missing is public game listings, but my guess is people will set a convention for finding PvP games(i.e. matchmake a particular quest at MP10 for PvP games).

    Item Hunting
    "One of the most common requests we get from players is that they'd like to find more items (through drops or crafting) that are as awesome as those that they can get from the Auction House."

    And rather than explain to these fucking geese how randomly generated loot functions, and then tell them to piss off to WoW, we're going to appease their moronic, baseless, fundamentally-at-odds-with-Diablo's-core-gear-mechanic desires.

    "So, working off this design, in 1.0.7 we're adding a new set of Rare crafting recipes that will create account-bound gloves, pants, wrists, a chest piece, and an amulet."

    Because when you spend time developing a gold auction house and a real money auction house, in order to maintain profit despite the free-to-play model, it's best to shoot yourself in the fucking knees and completely undermine the utility of these item trading features.

    "These new items will have six affixes and feature a primary stat (Str, Dex, Int, Vit) that extends higher than what is currently available in the respective slots."

    Ok. Well. Fuck item farming. Hellooooo crafting material farming.

    "but also have a 50% chance to drop off the following bosses when you have five stacks of Nephalem Valor"

    Because when we said "we don't want players to repeatedly farm bosses" we were drunk off our asses. Like, fucking wasted, bros.

    "Players often ask why their Sentry or Hydra doesn't inherit their Critical Hit Chance and Critical Hit Damage. The answer is that we want players to be able to build their characters in different ways, and we would rather Critical Hit Chance and Critical Hit Damage weren’t always automatically the right answer."

    That's a very verbose way of saying, "Because FUCK YOU, that's why!"

    "The current design is that these gems can be combined at the Jeweler for a substantial reagent and gold cost (3 Radiant Star gems, 20 million gold, and 1 Demonic Essence)"

    So, you won't be making them. And no one you know will be making them. Have fun buying them from dupers!
    Some people consider finding their own loot to be more fun than shopping the AH. Adding soulbound loot is the only way to accommodate that preference without ruining the economy. I don't expect you to understand that, but this mechanic does absolutely no harm to players who like the AH, so I don't know why you're so upset about it. You're still incredibly unlikely to craft your own perfect gear, and stat bonus on these is not going to compare to the Hellfire Ring's exp bonus, so the AH is hardly going to die.
    Monster Power
    "Players are playing at a variety of Monster Power levels"

    This is just fucking funny. There are 11 possible MP levels. Exactly how many levels do players need to routinely use for it to count as a "variety"?

    "(For example, you wouldn’t want a severely undergeared character to join your Monster Power 6 game and constantly die. That can be very hindering to an otherwise powerful group.)"

    And fuck if we're going to incorporate a gear assessment system that prevents people with shitty gear from entering games with MP levels higher than their current gear....or allow the player who makes the Public Game the option of specifiying a gear level requirement for the game. I mean, we did that automated thing with WoW...and it worked out...but...hey look a bee!

    "here’s a little note on design philosophy. . . ."

    This will be good.

    "People often ask what the intention of Monster Power is."

    And we reply by spouting nonsensical bullshit that fundamentally contradicts previous public statements / blue posts / AMA responses, etc. Because consistency is difficult.

    "we think there’s a real risk that if the most efficient path for XP or item farming involves playing on the highest Monster Power setting available regardless of the gameplay experience, then the game might actually become a lot less fun for a lot of people."

    And rather than fucking test that theory by releasing sample content on the PTR, and assessing player feedback, we're going to privileged our baseless speculations and appeal to our Blizzard Decision Making Board:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPyOvxpZ_xE

    "What if we made every monster on Monster Power 10 worth 5000x more experience? In that case, killing even one monster in Monster Power 10 would be worth hours of play at Monster Power 1."

    But since that would be fucking awesome we aren't doing it.

    "the game can start to feel extremely tedious as you spend a lot of time attacking a monster that takes forever to die"

    This unlike the tedium of Alkaizer runs.

    "We believe that Diablo shines when you can spend the majority of your time slaughtering hordes of enemies and then having that punctuated by the occasional difficulty spike either in the form of a particularly challenging set of normal monsters (like an elite pack) or a boss."

    Because people fucking hated Diablo 2 Baal / Mephisto runs. I mean, no one played that game. It was terrible.

    "We're going to monitor how things play out on PTR and make adjustments as necessary."

    But don't think that our ability to test THIS on the PTR indicates that we could have tested PVP Arenas, or even higher xp / item rewards for higher MP levels, on the PTR. They're totally different...because...we say they are. Also? Fuuuuuuuuck you!
    From day one they've always said that the intent of Monster Power is to let people who want more challenge get it, and to provide them enough rewards to justify that challenge, but not so much of a reward that they feel obligated to play at MP10 the moment they're capable of clearing it. You can technically clear MP10 pretty easily with average gear and an ultra-defensive build, but it's not fun at all. I know the concept of the maximum-efficiency playstyle not being fun is foreign to you, but if MP10 had 5000x experience gains, everyone would have little choice but to play it even though it's awful for them, which would ruin the game.

    Monster Changes

    "Monsters with this affix will now pulse a damage reflection shield on and off."

    Because after we listened to player's specific complaints about reflect damage we decided that the best course of action was to ignore their complaints, imagine a different problem, and then solve the problem we imagined. We find that this strategy has worked so far. Remember how players said they wanted a gear swap button, and so we added 100 new character levels instead? Yeah, this is like that.
    Player's complaints were that there was nothing they can do about it. Now there is - don't attack them while reflect is up. Requiring a change in gameplay to handle them is the whole point of elite affixes.

    Quality of Life Changes

    "With the removal of enrage timers in the previous patch and the emphasis on players selecting their level of challenge via the Monster Power system, long resurrection timers no longer serve a useful purpose."

    Read: We changed our design philosophy twice before, and now we have to change it again to accomodate the changes we already made. Change Change Modify Backpeddle Contradict Change.

    "We still want a meaningful pickup radius to be a gearing choice, so the buff to the base pickup radius is modest. Many players may not even notice."

    Ok, we didn't actually change the base pickup radius at all. That's why we didn't tell you the specific numerical increase. We're just saying we changed it so that the people complaining about pickup radius think it changed. Just, trust us, it's better this way.


    GAH!
    Now you're just complaining for the sake of it. You'd be whining just as much if they refused to ever change something that wasn't working. And are you honestly suggesting that they're lying about the pickup radius change?

    Zek on
  • Idx86Idx86 Long days and pleasant nights.Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Wow, those patch notes are care bear as fuck.

    What do you mean by that?

    sig.gif

    2008, 2012, 2014 D&D "Rare With No Sauce" League Fantasy Football Champion!
  • sumwarsumwar Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Hmm is life steal better than life on hit at good dps levels? I always ignored it but I'm doing some math in my head and I suspect I'm wrong. I am a whirlwind tornado barb. The tornados have a 8% chance to proc life on hit and do 60% weapon damage. 3% life steal dividied by 8 is .375% life steal. At 100K DPS That means every tornado gives 225 life with 3% life steal but only gives 80 hp with 1000 life on hit. I have 98K dps and it's only going up. I'm thinking of getting life steal on a barbarian rare belt and life steal on my offhand and then not care about life on hit.

    edit: I just found a post that explains in detail how often life on hit ticks when using tornado and whirlwind and life on hit is better than I thought. Life steal does become overpowered when getting around 200K+ dps though.

    sumwar on
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Zek wrote: »
    Some people consider finding their own loot to be more fun than shopping the AH. Adding soulbound loot is the only way to accommodate that preference without ruining the economy. I don't expect you to understand that, but this mechanic does absolutely no harm to players who like the AH, so I don't know why you're so upset about it. You're still incredibly unlikely to craft your own perfect gear, and stat bonus on these is not going to compare to the Hellfire Ring's exp bonus, so the AH is hardly going to die.

    @Zek the problem is that "these new items will have six affixes and feature a primary stat (Str, Dex, Int, Vit) that extends higher than what is currently available in the respective slots." The new soulbound loot will have higher primary stats, and guaranteed six affixes, which means that perfectly rolled soulbound loot will be better than perfectly rolled mob-drop loot.

    This will impact the Auction House and, so, the D3 economy, since best in slot gear will be achieved via crafting soulbound items rather than farming mobs / the AH.

    Moreover, if you look at Rare and Legendary Item Usage Statistics you will find that the top three slots for rare usage are Amulet 83%, Gloves 80%, and Bracers 38%. Let's compare that to the list of items that can be account bound...

    "So, working off this design, in 1.0.7 we're adding a new set of Rare crafting recipes that will create account-bound gloves, pants, wrists, a chest piece, and an amulet."

    Right now rare amulets, gloves, and bracers are the most likely items to sell on the AH, since they are the most commonly used rare items. With these new changes, those slots will be filled with crafted account bound items that, again, will have 6 guaranteed affixes and a higher primary stat that can be generated from mob-loot.

    So, yeah, boo this.

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    _J_ wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    Some people consider finding their own loot to be more fun than shopping the AH. Adding soulbound loot is the only way to accommodate that preference without ruining the economy. I don't expect you to understand that, but this mechanic does absolutely no harm to players who like the AH, so I don't know why you're so upset about it. You're still incredibly unlikely to craft your own perfect gear, and stat bonus on these is not going to compare to the Hellfire Ring's exp bonus, so the AH is hardly going to die.

    @Zek the problem is that "these new items will have six affixes and feature a primary stat (Str, Dex, Int, Vit) that extends higher than what is currently available in the respective slots." The new soulbound loot will have higher primary stats, and guaranteed six affixes, which means that perfectly rolled soulbound loot will be better than perfectly rolled mob-drop loot.

    This will impact the Auction House and, so, the D3 economy, since best in slot gear will be achieved via crafting soulbound items rather than farming mobs / the AH.

    Moreover, if you look at Rare and Legendary Item Usage Statistics you will find that the top three slots for rare usage are Amulet 83%, Gloves 80%, and Bracers 38%. Let's compare that to the list of items that can be account bound...

    "So, working off this design, in 1.0.7 we're adding a new set of Rare crafting recipes that will create account-bound gloves, pants, wrists, a chest piece, and an amulet."

    Right now rare amulets, gloves, and bracers are the most likely items to sell on the AH, since they are the most commonly used rare items. With these new changes, those slots will be filled with crafted account bound items that, again, will have 6 guaranteed affixes and a higher primary stat that can be generated from mob-loot.

    So, yeah, boo this.

    It's soulbound. Do you honestly think you're ever going to make one that's perfectly rolled? The gear that actually sells for anything on the auction house at this point has amazing stats. It's going to take a very long time to craft something better than that. Also I don't know why you excluded Legendary usage in those slots.

    Zek on
  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    For someone who hasn't really played much in...6 months? is there anything particular in the recent changes for Witch Doctors that I should be aware of?

    I was around when they first introduced the secondary level system (I forget its name, the blue number after you hit max level), and when they just started to make BEARS! not a mandatory build.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote: »
    For someone who hasn't really played much in...6 months? is there anything particular in the recent changes for Witch Doctors that I should be aware of?

    I was around when they first introduced the secondary level system (I forget its name, the blue number after you hit max level), and when they just started to make BEARS! not a mandatory build.

    The changes in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5 have basically made WDs awesome. BEARS is still the way to go for general farming, but the build looks a lot different than the stupid old VQ builds. Pickup radius is your best friend.

  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    Aegis wrote: »
    For someone who hasn't really played much in...6 months? is there anything particular in the recent changes for Witch Doctors that I should be aware of?

    I was around when they first introduced the secondary level system (I forget its name, the blue number after you hit max level), and when they just started to make BEARS! not a mandatory build.

    The changes in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5 have basically made WDs awesome. BEARS is still the way to go for general farming, but the build looks a lot different than the stupid old VQ builds. Pickup radius is your best friend.

    Sweet, I'll take a browse through them then.

    No love for pet builds?

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    For someone who hasn't really played much in...6 months? is there anything particular in the recent changes for Witch Doctors that I should be aware of?

    I was around when they first introduced the secondary level system (I forget its name, the blue number after you hit max level), and when they just started to make BEARS! not a mandatory build.

    The changes in 1.0.4 and 1.0.5 have basically made WDs awesome. BEARS is still the way to go for general farming, but the build looks a lot different than the stupid old VQ builds. Pickup radius is your best friend.

    Sweet, I'll take a browse through them then.

    No love for pet builds?

    Pets are good, too. Most builds will include one just to help with tanking; the main pet build is based on using Circle of Life and Sacrifice for bunches of explosions.

  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Zek wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    Some people consider finding their own loot to be more fun than shopping the AH. Adding soulbound loot is the only way to accommodate that preference without ruining the economy. I don't expect you to understand that, but this mechanic does absolutely no harm to players who like the AH, so I don't know why you're so upset about it. You're still incredibly unlikely to craft your own perfect gear, and stat bonus on these is not going to compare to the Hellfire Ring's exp bonus, so the AH is hardly going to die.

    @Zek the problem is that "these new items will have six affixes and feature a primary stat (Str, Dex, Int, Vit) that extends higher than what is currently available in the respective slots." The new soulbound loot will have higher primary stats, and guaranteed six affixes, which means that perfectly rolled soulbound loot will be better than perfectly rolled mob-drop loot.

    This will impact the Auction House and, so, the D3 economy, since best in slot gear will be achieved via crafting soulbound items rather than farming mobs / the AH.

    Moreover, if you look at Rare and Legendary Item Usage Statistics you will find that the top three slots for rare usage are Amulet 83%, Gloves 80%, and Bracers 38%. Let's compare that to the list of items that can be account bound...

    "So, working off this design, in 1.0.7 we're adding a new set of Rare crafting recipes that will create account-bound gloves, pants, wrists, a chest piece, and an amulet."

    Right now rare amulets, gloves, and bracers are the most likely items to sell on the AH, since they are the most commonly used rare items. With these new changes, those slots will be filled with crafted account bound items that, again, will have 6 guaranteed affixes and a higher primary stat that can be generated from mob-loot.

    So, yeah, boo this.

    It's soulbound. Do you honestly think you're ever going to make one that's perfectly rolled? The gear that actually sells for anything on the auction house at this point has amazing stats. It's going to take a very long time to craft something better than that. Also I don't know why you excluded Legendary usage in those slots.

    The point is that Best In Slot gear, for those slots, will be acount-bound crafted, rather than obtained through drops or the Auction House. This is detrimental to the long-term economy, as it moves player fixation from obtaining gear through AH / farming on to crafting account-bound items, and so farming those crafting materials is privileged over farming items / checking the AH.

    I didn't exclude legendary usage. Did you go to the page? The percents I listed were indicative of rares. The not-100% numbers are the legendary / set usage.

    Amulet
    Rare: 83.94%
    Legendary / Set: 16.06%

    Gloves
    Rare: 80.53%
    Legendary / Set: 19.47%

    Bracers
    Rare: 38.90%
    Legendary / Set: 61.10%



    In the future, there will be another column for account-bound items. This will decrease the number of rares used, which will decrease demand for rares, which will decrease the price of rares, which is detrimental to the economy.

  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Aegis wrote: »
    For someone who hasn't really played much in...6 months? is there anything particular in the recent changes for Witch Doctors that I should be aware of?

    I was around when they first introduced the secondary level system (I forget its name, the blue number after you hit max level), and when they just started to make BEARS! not a mandatory build.

    @Aegis

    Paragon levels were added in August. August was 5 months ago. So, you haven't played much in 5 months.

    Here is a list of the popular Witch Doctor builds in 1.0.6. Presumably any significant changes to the class are reflected in those builds.

  • AumniAumni Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    So what you're saying is they're devaluing items on the auction house? So all those conspiracy theories of "Blizzard will never make changes that would lower the AH prices because they want all your monies" were wrong!?

    *gasp*

    I'm looking forward to 1.07! Dueling will be a nice fun distraction.

    Aumni on
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/aumni/ Battlenet: Aumni#1978 GW2: Aumni.1425 PSN: Aumnius
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Aumni wrote: »
    So what you're saying is they're devaluing items on the auction house? So all those conspiracy theories of "Blizzard will never make changes that would lower the AH prices because they want all your monies" were wrong!?

    *gasp*

    I'm looking forward to 1.07! Dueling will be a nice fun distraction.

    Yes, they're devaluing items.

    Yes, the silly geese were silly geese.

    Boo Dueling, but it's fine. I do like that they removed it from gameplay proper, and so removed the possibility of ganking.

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    _J_ wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    Some people consider finding their own loot to be more fun than shopping the AH. Adding soulbound loot is the only way to accommodate that preference without ruining the economy. I don't expect you to understand that, but this mechanic does absolutely no harm to players who like the AH, so I don't know why you're so upset about it. You're still incredibly unlikely to craft your own perfect gear, and stat bonus on these is not going to compare to the Hellfire Ring's exp bonus, so the AH is hardly going to die.

    @Zek the problem is that "these new items will have six affixes and feature a primary stat (Str, Dex, Int, Vit) that extends higher than what is currently available in the respective slots." The new soulbound loot will have higher primary stats, and guaranteed six affixes, which means that perfectly rolled soulbound loot will be better than perfectly rolled mob-drop loot.

    This will impact the Auction House and, so, the D3 economy, since best in slot gear will be achieved via crafting soulbound items rather than farming mobs / the AH.

    Moreover, if you look at Rare and Legendary Item Usage Statistics you will find that the top three slots for rare usage are Amulet 83%, Gloves 80%, and Bracers 38%. Let's compare that to the list of items that can be account bound...

    "So, working off this design, in 1.0.7 we're adding a new set of Rare crafting recipes that will create account-bound gloves, pants, wrists, a chest piece, and an amulet."

    Right now rare amulets, gloves, and bracers are the most likely items to sell on the AH, since they are the most commonly used rare items. With these new changes, those slots will be filled with crafted account bound items that, again, will have 6 guaranteed affixes and a higher primary stat that can be generated from mob-loot.

    So, yeah, boo this.

    It's soulbound. Do you honestly think you're ever going to make one that's perfectly rolled? The gear that actually sells for anything on the auction house at this point has amazing stats. It's going to take a very long time to craft something better than that. Also I don't know why you excluded Legendary usage in those slots.

    The point is that Best In Slot gear, for those slots, will be acount-bound crafted, rather than obtained through drops or the Auction House. This is detrimental to the long-term economy, as it moves player fixation from obtaining gear through AH / farming on to crafting account-bound items, and so farming those crafting materials is privileged over farming items / checking the AH.

    I didn't exclude legendary usage. Did you go to the page? The percents I listed were indicative of rares. The not-100% numbers are the legendary / set usage.

    Amulet
    Rare: 83.94%
    Legendary / Set: 16.06%

    Gloves
    Rare: 80.53%
    Legendary / Set: 19.47%

    Bracers
    Rare: 38.90%
    Legendary / Set: 61.10%



    In the future, there will be another column for account-bound items. This will decrease the number of rares used, which will decrease demand for rares, which will decrease the price of rares, which is detrimental to the economy.

    First off, there's no difference between farming for the AH and farming for crafting. It all comes from elite kills. This is an additional activity on top of buying/selling on the AH, it won't replace it for anyone.

    And yes, it will devalue the items in those slots to some extent(though probably not much for top-tier loot). That can't be helped, it's a natural consequence of helping people to find their own loot. The goal here is very specifically to de-emphasize the auction house in Diablo 3, and most people who aren't you would love to see that happen.

    Zek on
  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Now I haven't played in a while. But I am sure that well rolled legendary armour is BiS for almost every single slot, save gloves and (for some builds) jewellry? If the gear you are crafting is constrained by the usual affix limitations on regular Archon gear, the new crafting recipes won't be BiS by a long shot. They also don't have shoulders, helms and boots available, perhaps because those slots already receive bonus rolls to stats (strength, intelligence and dexterity, respectively).

    E: Hm, that's probably not the case as they've got gloves in there, which get bonus dex/int. No belts either, maybe because they know no one will give up a Witching Hour.

    Shen on
    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
    ladi.png
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2013
    Shen wrote: »
    Now I haven't played in a while. But I am sure that well rolled legendary armour is BiS for almost every single slot, save gloves and (for some builds) jewellry? If the gear you are crafting is constrained by the usual affix limitations on regular Archon gear, the new crafting recipes won't be BiS by a long shot. They also don't have shoulders, helms and boots available, perhaps because those slots already receive bonus rolls to stats (strength, intelligence and dexterity, respectively).

    Here are the rare / legendary Item Use Statistics

    Here are the Most Popular Legendary and Set Items

    The "almost" is a significant word in your post. You are correct that, currently, for most slots a non-bind Legendary / Set item is BiS. This is not the case for amulets and gloves, since 80% of characters use rare items in those slots. Bracers depends. I think Rare braces are Best in Slot if they have an ideal configuration, but usually Legendary items are adequate and more readily available. There's also the issue with Lacuni's movement speed and it's impact on "best in slot" consideration.

    Rings are interesting, since Hellfire Ring is an example of what I'm worried about. Given its bonus significant numbers of players use the Hellfire Ring. This decreased demand on rings since significant numbers of persons now need to only fill one ring slot via the AH.

    There's also the question of just how high the primary stat bonus will be on these items. There is, presumably, a level of stat bonus that would offset some of the set bonuses, or legendary bonuses, and so make this new crafted gear Best in Slot. We don't know how high the bonus is, so we can't answer that question yet.


    The changes will definitely impact the amulet, glove, and bracer market. Perfect trifecta account-bound amulets / gloves will be better than perfect trifecta mob amulets / gloves due to the higher primary stat. The bracers may be better than Lacuni if the primary stat bonus combined with crit chance and other high stats are better than Lacuni's movement speed bonus.

    Pants and chest don't matter much since, as you said, Legendaries are generally BiS for these items. Though, again, if the primary stat bonus is high enough that could change.

    _J_ on
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2013
    Zek wrote: »
    First off, there's no difference between farming for the AH and farming for crafting. It all comes from elite kills. This is an additional activity on top of buying/selling on the AH, it won't replace it for anyone.

    In terms of the mechanics of clicking on things you are correct. In terms of the motivation / profitability of farming you are not correct. If these items significantly impact item markets, then players will be on the lookout for less items to sell on the AH. Right now, profit-oriented persons pick up gloves, bracers, jewelry, and 1H rares to AH. If these new items replace those items, then it will change the farming mentality.

    Another difference is the overall profitability of farming. If even less items sell on the AH, then even less items will be profitable, which means decreased sales and decreased gold for farmers.

    This is bad.
    Zek wrote: »
    And yes, it will devalue the items in those slots to some extent(though probably not much for top-tier loot). That can't be helped, it's a natural consequence of helping people to find their own loot. The goal here is very specifically to de-emphasize the auction house in Diablo 3, and most people who aren't you would love to see that happen.

    Those people are wrong, and have problematic short-sighted desires. Diablo is about farming gear, not farming crafting materials.

    If best in slot gear is crafted and account-bound, then the game turns into farming crafting materials.

    That is bad.

    Making the crafted materials account-bound is also bad, by the way. Hellfire Ring would have been far less of a travesty of its crafting mats could be sold on the AH.


    Edit: For clarity's sake, it may be best to replace "Auction House" with "trade with other players / give to other players". It seems that allowing users to exchange items is a good thing. The problem is that some people seem to dislike trading by means of the Auction House.

    _J_ on
  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    So, everyone who wants to smash monsters and get progression on their characters without fiddling with the AH is wrong. If they say that's what they like, their desires must be wrong; the only correct desires are the ones _J_ has. Good to see you haven't lost perspective.

    RandomEngy on
    Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    I'm not here to argue, it's a given that account bound gear will decrease demand for equipment in that slot. Gear prices becoming more accessible is something I consider a positive, however.

    As for the amount of base stat needed to replace a legendary:

    http://www.d3rawr.com/d

    In my current gear, 1% crit = 10% crit damage = 1.8% aspd = 40 dex in terms of increasing my dps, with dex being the worst scaling stat. To replace my Inna's pants, the new gear would need to have 240 bonus dexterity, ignoring set bonuses and benefits from IAS. Hellfire rings guarantee 170-200, I don't expect Blizzard will go higher than that.

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
    ladi.png
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    So, everyone who wants to smash monsters and get progression on their characters without fiddling with the AH is wrong. If they say that's what they like, their desires must be wrong; the only correct desires are the ones _J_ has. Good to see you haven't lost perspective.

    They're ignoring the economic impacts of their desires on the game's economy, specifically the long-term repercussions of moving from gear-acquisition farming to crafting-mat-acquisition farming.

    It's the mentality one finds on the official forums: "Why can't I find an ungrade every run!?!?!" Well, because that system is not sustainable over the long term when there is a hard cap on gear / character levels. "Why can't I find items that sell for 100M+ gold all the time?" Well, because in order to allow you to get that level of items, we would have to manipulate the RNG to be such that everyone gets those items, and that lowers the market prices, and so what once sold for 100M+ will now sell for 20M, or less.

    It's the same short-sighted mentality that led persons to be shocked, shocked!, that increasing legendary stats and increasing legendary drop rates resulted in lower prices for the majority of legendaries and rares.

    A game in which persons can quickly acquire their own best in slot items without ever having to trade with anyone is not sustainable over the long term. If Blizzard added more end game content it might be viable, but since the entire game is "acquire better gear" there's nothing for these people to do once they craft the best items. They could then farm to get items to sell but OH SHIT the system that allowed them to acquire their own gear reduced the marketability of other items.

    It's the opposite of a good solution.

  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2013
    Shen wrote: »
    I'm not here to argue, it's a given that account bound gear will decrease demand for equipment in that slot. Gear prices becoming more accessible is something I consider a positive, however.

    In what way is this positive? It seems incredibly problematic to me.

    Edit:
    Shen wrote: »
    In my current gear, 1% crit = 10% crit damage = 1.8% aspd = 40 dex in terms of increasing my dps, with dex being the worst scaling stat. To replace my Inna's pants, the new gear would need to have 240 bonus dexterity, ignoring set bonuses and benefits from IAS. Hellfire rings guarantee 170-200, I don't expect Blizzard will go higher than that.

    We'll see.

    _J_ on
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Am I missing something here?

    The mechanism for crafting these account bound items is the same farming people are doing for items already.

    The chances of crafting an item that is better than the current well or perfectly rolled items is slim, and since these items can't be sold on the AH they aren't going to replace the well or perfectly rolled items on there already.

    So...same amount of normal items, same amount of well to/ed normal items, and the possibility of better rolled crafted items. I don't see this hurting the AH anymore than upping the legendary drop rates did...the only place I see maybe a little change is in the t not $TEXAS item market...

    people like _J_ will complain, everyone else will be glad the abortion of the crafting system is a little less useless.

  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2013
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Am I missing something here?

    The mechanism for crafting these account bound items is the same farming people are doing for items already.

    The chances of crafting an item that is better than the current well or perfectly rolled items is slim, and since these items can't be sold on the AH they aren't going to replace the well or perfectly rolled items on there already.

    So...same amount of normal items, same amount of well to/ed normal items, and the possibility of better rolled crafted items. I don't see this hurting the AH anymore than upping the legendary drop rates did...the only place I see maybe a little change is in the t not $TEXAS item market...

    people like _J_ will complain, everyone else will be glad the abortion of the crafting system is a little less useless.

    These crafted items will undermine the desirability of the AH items, since the crafted items will have higher primary stats. The best possible crafted trifecta glove will be better than the best possible mob-drop trifecta glove.

    Rather than farm mobs / the AH for the best possible item, all of those mob / AH are now merely means to obtaining the actually BiS gear: Account-Bound Crafted shit.

    As Shen pointed out, this may not hold for chest / pants, given the legendaries in those slots. But for amulets and gloves this will definately have a strong impact on the market. Bracers...depends on whether lacuni's movement speed holds up against the base stat bonus.


    And, really, I don't have a problem with crafting, in itself. My problem is with the account-bound nature of the items. If they introduced this new system, and the items were not account bound? That would be keen.

    Edit: They'll be glad for now. In seven months they'll be bitching about how the game turned into crafting-mat farming.

    _J_ on
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