I'll never be fully immersed in the world if my computer augmented brain doesn't receive one spam email trying to sell me products to enhance my cybernetic dick.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I wonder if there is any excitement in Japan towards Cyberpunk 2077.
Also, the rounds used by the police squad in the trailer fragment. Aren't those meant to be used on humans so they don't leave the body?
No. Full metal jacket bullets actually have an increased potential to over penetrate. They're still frangible, just less so than soft point rounds.
They're often used by law enforcement officers and the military because they don't expand, allegedly making them more "humane."
Which is just... hilariously stupid. I can load jacketed hollowpoints in my .45 that will rip the hell out of whatever they hit, but a soldier can't... because killing an enemy with one type of bullet is just so much more ethical than using another type of bullet. Though there are other reasons to use a copper jacket than just adhering to wildly outdated and stupid agreements and protocols.
But if you took copper-jacketed bullets and fired them into a hard enough surface, they'll fragment like crazy if they're from a rifle. Those fly a lot faster than pistol rounds, so they don't really tend to flatten out like pistol rounds if they hit something hard.
Basically, no, those bullets aren't doing anything special for copper-jacketed rounds. The fragmentation of the lead core may be a bit too consistent, but otherwise those shots aren't a half-bad visual of what FMJ rifle rounds could, and generally do, on impact.
This is the future, anything related to sex is going to involve electronic impulses directly to the genitals... or where the genitals used to be.
Its all handled by the computer inside your brain.
In the future, all restaurants will be Taco Bell. They won the franchise wars, after all. And while sexual intercourse and french kissing are illegal, who misses them? I still don't know what to do with the shells, though.
This is the future, anything related to sex is going to involve electronic impulses directly to the genitals... or where the genitals used to be.
Its all handled by the computer inside your brain.
In the future, all restaurants will be Taco Bell. They won the franchise wars, after all. And while sexual intercourse and french kissing are illegal, who misses them? I still don't know what to do with the shells, though.
I wonder if there is any excitement in Japan towards Cyberpunk 2077.
Also, the rounds used by the police squad in the trailer fragment. Aren't those meant to be used on humans so they don't leave the body?
No. Full metal jacket bullets actually have an increased potential to over penetrate. They're still frangible, just less so than soft point rounds.
They're often used by law enforcement officers and the military because they don't expand, allegedly making them more "humane."
Which is just... hilariously stupid. I can load jacketed hollowpoints in my .45 that will rip the hell out of whatever they hit, but a soldier can't... because killing an enemy with one type of bullet is just so much more ethical than using another type of bullet. Though there are other reasons to use a copper jacket than just adhering to wildly outdated and stupid agreements and protocols.
But if you took copper-jacketed bullets and fired them into a hard enough surface, they'll fragment like crazy if they're from a rifle. Those fly a lot faster than pistol rounds, so they don't really tend to flatten out like pistol rounds if they hit something hard.
Basically, no, those bullets aren't doing anything special for copper-jacketed rounds. The fragmentation of the lead core may be a bit too consistent, but otherwise those shots aren't a half-bad visual of what FMJ rifle rounds could, and generally do, on impact.
I thought of that after a while. Guess they weren't trying to put down the target using special AP rounds.
Archsorcerer on
XBL - ArchSilversmith
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Sorry to bring it up. Just caught up on the thread but:
Does anyone else find it kinda appropriate that a setting about shameless consumerism and corruption has it's first trailer as 'sexy violence sells'. Like, even if it comes off a bit problematic.
Also I echo the statement that there needs to be a cyber penis in this game.
If by "appropriate" you mean "well I guess we could've seen that one coming" then I guess. If by "appropriate" you mean "sexism is okay!" then I'm not really sure I see it. I can't speak to Cyberpunk 2020 the RPG setting, but I know that actual cyberpunk in the Neuromancer vein is anything but shameless consumerism. The "punk" in cyberpunk is about a rejection of bland corporate monotony and a rejection of being forced into an identity defined by what you purchase. The street finds its own use for things, hackers and other anti-authoritarian Robin Hood-esque criminal anti-heroes are the usual protagonists, and individualism (in the form of determining one's own identity, whether it be through artificial body parts, digital avatars that are more real than the slab of meat that the hacker sees their body as, or through things like the Panther Moderns' animalistic body modification) is the rule of the day.
Cyberpunk is a world where consumerism has ended and corporations have moved from selling things to people by advertising to simply making money by controlling the governments. Corporations are the Japanese Zaibatsus. They don't stoop to crass advertising or engender consumerism. They just use their legions of salarymen to control global trade and get rich by running everything. The idea is blown up to ridiculous proportions in Snow Crash, where the corporations are literally the only remaining states.
But really, consumerism as a concept has little to no intrinsic link with sexism or "sexy violence sells." Even if consumerism were intrinsic to cyberpunk I'm sure they could find a way to do it without making a trailer that slots right next to Hitman's sexy nun trailer in the "violence against women" category. Blade Runner, for instance, managed to get Coca-Cola and Atari into the movie, and when it came time for that movie to depict violence against women, it didn't glamorize it, and in fact it went out of its way to make it brutal, ugly, painful, and as unsexy as it could.
Putting the Hitman trailer on the same level as this elevates it in a way it doesn't deserve. While the content of the Cyberpunk trailer can be arguably disagreeable, I can contextually buy that the character in question could consciously choose to look that way due to the culture that would arise thanks to the opportunities for body modification that exist, particularly with the knowledge that one could eventually just more or less snap from being heavily augmented.
The Hitman nuns are just girls in fetish outfits because titties. And butts.
I think people are being oversensitive where this trailer is concerned. I hope these guys stick to their guns and give us something gritty to play with.
Btw, did Hitman ever explain why those assassins were dressed as sexy nuns? I mean, was there ever a practical reason for the outfits? I found that whole trailer to be stupid as hell. It made no sense.
I think people are being oversensitive where this trailer is concerned. I hope these guys stick to their guns and give us something gritty to play with.
Btw, did Hitman ever explain why those assassins were dressed as sexy nuns? I mean, was there ever a practical reason for the outfits? I found that whole trailer to be stupid as hell. It made no sense.
From what I gathered they were specially trained agents in the art of assassination like Agent 47.
They also REALLY liked Ann Summers, like, had a frequent customer discount.
Also they're in the game for all of about five second it takes Agent 47 to kill them.
On topic, as a Geth fan how much capacity for robots is there in Cyberpunk 2020?
Here's a radical fucking idea: Let's keep this thread for Cyberpunk 2077 and other related cyberpunk stuff, and the sexism talk can take a hike and have a thread of its own. I keep checking this thread for possible cool stuff relating to the game or the genre, and always run into the perpetually irritating derivative shit from a brief teaser trailer, accompanied by whiteknighting, people overanalyzing things in several different directions, and talk that's incredibly tenuously linked to the subject of the thread.
Make a sexism thread, discuss the trailer's supposed/actual sexism there to your heart's content, and stop shitting this thread up with that. It's incredibly tangential, and while connections exist, it's not what people coming to this thread are interested in reading or writing about. Let's make trailer sexism talk verboten and talk about cool scifi shit instead.
Here's an idea: maybe if stuff is sexist then we can call it sexist without having to confine our discussion to the special sexism ghetto that you can ignore if you don't want to ever hear about sexism ever again. If a game does something that people don't like, people are going to talk about it, and just because you're so tired of hearing about equality for women that you've become one of the people who uses the word "whiteknighting" unironically doesn't mean you get to tell us which parts of the trailer are fair game for discussion and which parts aren't.
Discussion of whether CD Projekt Red's latest teaser trailer contains questionable attitudes towards women, in the thread about the game the teaser trailer is for, makes as much sense as discussion about what cyberpunk as a genre is vs. what Cyberpunk the RPG setting is, or discussion about free-roaming RPGs vs. more locked down linear story focused RPGs, or talk about a single protagonist vs. a protagonist you can create, or anything else. It's no more "incredibly tangential" than any of those other things. It's a discussion about some of the only media we have about the game, and it ties into CD Projekt Red's previous games too.
And it's clearlywrong to say that sexism is not what people coming to this thread are interesting in reading or writing about, because if that were true, we wouldn't keep coming into this thread and writing about it...
I wonder if there is any excitement in Japan towards Cyberpunk 2077.
Also, the rounds used by the police squad in the trailer fragment. Aren't those meant to be used on humans so they don't leave the body?
It's got a decent amount of competition. Psycho-Pass and the like. It probably depends on if CD Projekt got the same surprise affection that it did in the US.
I think people are being oversensitive where this trailer is concerned. I hope these guys stick to their guns and give us something gritty to play with.
Btw, did Hitman ever explain why those assassins were dressed as sexy nuns? I mean, was there ever a practical reason for the outfits? I found that whole trailer to be stupid as hell. It made no sense.
From what I gathered they were specially trained agents in the art of assassination like Agent 47.
They also REALLY liked Ann Summers, like, had a frequent customer discount.
Also they're in the game for all of about five second it takes Agent 47 to kill them.
On topic, as a Geth fan how much capacity for robots is there in Cyberpunk 2020?
It's been awhile since I played but I don't recall there actually being much in the way of robots, in the vein of the Geth anyway. The closest thing was full conversion borgs which were basically human brains and spines stuck in a robotic frame. But there were some human android style robots from later source books that were used for various service duties (like the obligatory sexbot). Complex AI was kind of relegated to large mainframes, networks, and the like.
A lot of their ideas came from the 80's which had different ideas about how people thought things were going to be. Most of the tech was about augmenting humans not so much replacing them wholesale. By the standards of say Ghost in the Shell, where everyone is running around in almost completely artificial bodies, the tech and amount of augmentation of CP2020 would seem kind of primitive by comparison. Even the full borg stuff only came out in later supplements and were kind of retconned in by allowing one to avoid cyberpsychosis with advanced therapy. I'm curious to see what they decide to update.
Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
Why are we still talking about the 'omg the trailer is sooo sexist!' thing?
The point of the matter is, she's so far 'gone' that it doesn't matter to her. Like that GITS clip (with the tank), her sexuality is null at this point.
I mean, come on, I don't hear people saying
"OMG! Motoko was sexually vulnerable when she tried to pry the tank open naked and now she's completely exposed to be sexually taken advantage of by the tank!"
Right... because in the tank scene, her sexuality wasn't played up. She didn't put on sexually enticing clothing, crouch down in a sexually provocative pose, set her face into a blank stare, and wait for men to abuse her perfect, beautiful, untouchable body. She ran up to the tank and grotesquely tore herself apart. She has huge bulging inhuman muscles that quickly tear apart when we see her uncloaked, rather than a hot, traditionally sexy body with some flimsy arm blades.
Which is not to say that giving her an excuse to become naked wasn't obvious fanservice (can't she cloak with her suit on?). And which is also not to say that Ghost in the Shell more generally doesn't get constant shit for oversexualizing the major to a ridiculously inappropriate degree for zero reason. It does get shit and rightfully so, and if someone were to bring up Shirow's explanation for why he drew an all-girl orgy at one point (the explanation is literally "I drew an all-girl orgy because I didn't want to draw some guy's butt") then maybe we'd be bitching about that too. In fact, we did. Back on page 4.
I'm curious as to why it's "FUCKING CHILDISH" to want to call out what we perceive as sexism instead of just ignoring it and talking about sweet sci-fi video games with killer robot women. Like, everything I've seen that has anything to do with women when it comes to this Cyberpunk 2020 setting has struck me as fucking childish, or more accurately, ridiculously immature. None of them ever seem to have any pants on.
While equality is a comfortable sentiment to a have, how is it any different than
blanket assuming something else about a person despite all evidence to the contrary.
Going back to the personification-objectification spectrum from earlier, I'd like to think
the better way to characterize people is to first assume the best about a person, and then
update how I think they view the world based on additional information I learn about them.
And I expect you to disagree.
Which I guess is also what makes internet message boards so inclusive compared to real life because
we all only have a random image and made up name and a common interest to assume about
If I always assumed equality however, then I'd assume everyone here is like myself similarly feeling that.
Really though, aren't subjects like "sexism in media" or something like that better discussed elsewhere? We don't have a general cyberpunk thread, and this discussion is cluttering it up. Personally it'd be far preferable to have people posting cool cyberpunk stuff, talk about cool cyberpunk stuff etc. in the cyberpunk thread. Sexism is a serious, valid issue, and this is not the ideal venue for discussing it. Especially for pages and pages. It's a valid point to make, but at this point it's dominating the thread to a point of derailment.
It's pretty much sucking all the joy out of the thread.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Talking about the Cyberpunk 2077 teaser trailer is not derailing the thread. It's what this thread is for! "Sexism in the Cyberpunk 2077 teaser" strikes me as just as interesting of a topic as "what kind of bullets are they using in the Cyberpunk 2077 teaser" or "what kind of callbacks to 2020 are in the teaser" or "what is the song in the teaser" or "do we see people we can play as in the teaser" or "what do we learn about the updated technology in the teaser" or anything else. I'm sorry that sexism isn't cool cyberpunk stuff, but the trailer wasn't just cool cyberpunk stuff. It had all sorts of things in there, sexism included.
As for sucking all the joy out of the thread, that seems like a personal problem. I'm having plenty of fun! What would suck the joy out of the thread would be feeling like I can't talk about what strikes me as obviously problematic sexual objectification and legitimation of violence against women-as-objects in the teaser trailer because for some reason mature discussion about stuff isn't allowed in G&T. If we can talk about things like the nature of cyberpunk and genres in this thread, or talk about complex commentary on video game narratives and military violence in the Spec Ops thread, or talk about first person narratives, twists, and personal revelation in the Planescape: Torment thread, or oWoD lore in the V:TM - B thread, or difficult moral choices in the Fallout thread, or even more difficult choices in The Walking Dead thread, then I'm not sure anything should be off the table.
And besides, this is very clearly not a "sexism in media" discussion. This is a "sexism in this trailer" discussion.
I think people are being oversensitive where this trailer is concerned. I hope these guys stick to their guns and give us something gritty to play with.
Btw, did Hitman ever explain why those assassins were dressed as sexy nuns? I mean, was there ever a practical reason for the outfits? I found that whole trailer to be stupid as hell. It made no sense.
From what I gathered they were specially trained agents in the art of assassination like Agent 47.
They also REALLY liked Ann Summers, like, had a frequent customer discount.
Also they're in the game for all of about five second it takes Agent 47 to kill them.
On topic, as a Geth fan how much capacity for robots is there in Cyberpunk 2020?
It's been awhile since I played but I don't recall there actually being much in the way of robots, in the vein of the Geth anyway. The closest thing was full conversion borgs which were basically human brains and spines stuck in a robotic frame. But there were some human android style robots from later source books that were used for various service duties (like the obligatory sexbot). Complex AI was kind of relegated to large mainframes, networks, and the like.
A lot of their ideas came from the 80's which had different ideas about how people thought things were going to be. Most of the tech was about augmenting humans not so much replacing them wholesale. By the standards of say Ghost in the Shell, where everyone is running around in almost completely artificial bodies, the tech and amount of augmentation of CP2020 would seem kind of primitive by comparison. Even the full borg stuff only came out in later supplements and were kind of retconned in by allowing one to avoid cyberpsychosis with advanced therapy. I'm curious to see what they decide to update.
Shame, ever since Geth in ME2/3 became my best bros I have wanted more socially awkward robots.
She might have been like, brain wiped and reprogrammed or something. That's kind of like dying. But maybe her crazy psychosis was cured and her real personality was restored. I don't know enough about the setting or the game to know.
There's an in-setting explanation for the whole thing that probably applies here.
Load up on too much cyberware, and your mind starts to think of yourself more as an "it" than a "person". Additionally, you start to lose your empathy. The end result invariably involves an attempted rampage through the local neighborhood, killing anyone and everyone that you meet.
Assuming that the local cops (in the form of the cyber-psycho squad) manage to successfully bring you in instead of outright killing you, this is generally resolved through a combination of removing some of the cyberware you've had installed and long therapy sessions with a shrink. Depending on the exact circumstances, one or the other might be involved. Or both.
As for the trailer... people see what they want to see. I see a woman who's just had a "What the hell have I done!?" moment of shock and horror. People see what they want to see, though, and others are apparently seeing it as "CD Projekt really likes to ogle women."
Posts
Also, the rounds used by the police squad in the trailer fragment. Aren't those meant to be used on humans so they don't leave the body?
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
No. Full metal jacket bullets actually have an increased potential to over penetrate. They're still frangible, just less so than soft point rounds.
They're often used by law enforcement officers and the military because they don't expand, allegedly making them more "humane."
Well yeah
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
But if you took copper-jacketed bullets and fired them into a hard enough surface, they'll fragment like crazy if they're from a rifle. Those fly a lot faster than pistol rounds, so they don't really tend to flatten out like pistol rounds if they hit something hard.
Basically, no, those bullets aren't doing anything special for copper-jacketed rounds. The fragmentation of the lead core may be a bit too consistent, but otherwise those shots aren't a half-bad visual of what FMJ rifle rounds could, and generally do, on impact.
Its all handled by the computer inside your brain.
Look at this guy.
He doesn't know how to use the shells.
Why I fear the ocean.
I thought of that after a while. Guess they weren't trying to put down the target using special AP rounds.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
I don't think it counts as your first RPG unless you actually played it. No matter how many times you pored over the books.
did u just veto his first rpg
rood dood
Does anyone else find it kinda appropriate that a setting about shameless consumerism and corruption has it's first trailer as 'sexy violence sells'. Like, even if it comes off a bit problematic.
Also I echo the statement that there needs to be a cyber penis in this game.
Cyberpunk is a world where consumerism has ended and corporations have moved from selling things to people by advertising to simply making money by controlling the governments. Corporations are the Japanese Zaibatsus. They don't stoop to crass advertising or engender consumerism. They just use their legions of salarymen to control global trade and get rich by running everything. The idea is blown up to ridiculous proportions in Snow Crash, where the corporations are literally the only remaining states.
But really, consumerism as a concept has little to no intrinsic link with sexism or "sexy violence sells." Even if consumerism were intrinsic to cyberpunk I'm sure they could find a way to do it without making a trailer that slots right next to Hitman's sexy nun trailer in the "violence against women" category. Blade Runner, for instance, managed to get Coca-Cola and Atari into the movie, and when it came time for that movie to depict violence against women, it didn't glamorize it, and in fact it went out of its way to make it brutal, ugly, painful, and as unsexy as it could.
The Hitman nuns are just girls in fetish outfits because titties. And butts.
Btw, did Hitman ever explain why those assassins were dressed as sexy nuns? I mean, was there ever a practical reason for the outfits? I found that whole trailer to be stupid as hell. It made no sense.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
From what I gathered they were specially trained agents in the art of assassination like Agent 47.
They also REALLY liked Ann Summers, like, had a frequent customer discount.
Also they're in the game for all of about five second it takes Agent 47 to kill them.
On topic, as a Geth fan how much capacity for robots is there in Cyberpunk 2020?
Make a sexism thread, discuss the trailer's supposed/actual sexism there to your heart's content, and stop shitting this thread up with that. It's incredibly tangential, and while connections exist, it's not what people coming to this thread are interested in reading or writing about. Let's make trailer sexism talk verboten and talk about cool scifi shit instead.
Discussion of whether CD Projekt Red's latest teaser trailer contains questionable attitudes towards women, in the thread about the game the teaser trailer is for, makes as much sense as discussion about what cyberpunk as a genre is vs. what Cyberpunk the RPG setting is, or discussion about free-roaming RPGs vs. more locked down linear story focused RPGs, or talk about a single protagonist vs. a protagonist you can create, or anything else. It's no more "incredibly tangential" than any of those other things. It's a discussion about some of the only media we have about the game, and it ties into CD Projekt Red's previous games too.
And it's clearlywrong to say that sexism is not what people coming to this thread are interesting in reading or writing about, because if that were true, we wouldn't keep coming into this thread and writing about it...
I'm waiting for actual punkish trailer, not one that by itself hints at some sort of police conspiracy from the perspective of the conspirators.
It's got a decent amount of competition. Psycho-Pass and the like. It probably depends on if CD Projekt got the same surprise affection that it did in the US.
It's been awhile since I played but I don't recall there actually being much in the way of robots, in the vein of the Geth anyway. The closest thing was full conversion borgs which were basically human brains and spines stuck in a robotic frame. But there were some human android style robots from later source books that were used for various service duties (like the obligatory sexbot). Complex AI was kind of relegated to large mainframes, networks, and the like.
A lot of their ideas came from the 80's which had different ideas about how people thought things were going to be. Most of the tech was about augmenting humans not so much replacing them wholesale. By the standards of say Ghost in the Shell, where everyone is running around in almost completely artificial bodies, the tech and amount of augmentation of CP2020 would seem kind of primitive by comparison. Even the full borg stuff only came out in later supplements and were kind of retconned in by allowing one to avoid cyberpsychosis with advanced therapy. I'm curious to see what they decide to update.
The point of the matter is, she's so far 'gone' that it doesn't matter to her. Like that GITS clip (with the tank), her sexuality is null at this point.
I mean, come on, I don't hear people saying
"OMG! Motoko was sexually vulnerable when she tried to pry the tank open naked and now she's completely exposed to be sexually taken advantage of by the tank!"
This shit is FUCKING CHILDISH!
Which is not to say that giving her an excuse to become naked wasn't obvious fanservice (can't she cloak with her suit on?). And which is also not to say that Ghost in the Shell more generally doesn't get constant shit for oversexualizing the major to a ridiculously inappropriate degree for zero reason. It does get shit and rightfully so, and if someone were to bring up Shirow's explanation for why he drew an all-girl orgy at one point (the explanation is literally "I drew an all-girl orgy because I didn't want to draw some guy's butt") then maybe we'd be bitching about that too. In fact, we did. Back on page 4.
I'm curious as to why it's "FUCKING CHILDISH" to want to call out what we perceive as sexism instead of just ignoring it and talking about sweet sci-fi video games with killer robot women. Like, everything I've seen that has anything to do with women when it comes to this Cyberpunk 2020 setting has struck me as fucking childish, or more accurately, ridiculously immature. None of them ever seem to have any pants on.
blanket assuming something else about a person despite all evidence to the contrary.
Going back to the personification-objectification spectrum from earlier, I'd like to think
the better way to characterize people is to first assume the best about a person, and then
update how I think they view the world based on additional information I learn about them.
And I expect you to disagree.
Which I guess is also what makes internet message boards so inclusive compared to real life because
we all only have a random image and made up name and a common interest to assume about
If I always assumed equality however, then I'd assume everyone here is like myself similarly feeling that.
It's pretty much sucking all the joy out of the thread.
i think the explanation is that her skin contains the thermoptic camo, while her suit doesnt
when you see dudes wearing camo suits they look like they are draped in big sheets of it
As for sucking all the joy out of the thread, that seems like a personal problem. I'm having plenty of fun! What would suck the joy out of the thread would be feeling like I can't talk about what strikes me as obviously problematic sexual objectification and legitimation of violence against women-as-objects in the teaser trailer because for some reason mature discussion about stuff isn't allowed in G&T. If we can talk about things like the nature of cyberpunk and genres in this thread, or talk about complex commentary on video game narratives and military violence in the Spec Ops thread, or talk about first person narratives, twists, and personal revelation in the Planescape: Torment thread, or oWoD lore in the V:TM - B thread, or difficult moral choices in the Fallout thread, or even more difficult choices in The Walking Dead thread, then I'm not sure anything should be off the table.
And besides, this is very clearly not a "sexism in media" discussion. This is a "sexism in this trailer" discussion.
Shame, ever since Geth in ME2/3 became my best bros I have wanted more socially awkward robots.
There's an in-setting explanation for the whole thing that probably applies here.
Load up on too much cyberware, and your mind starts to think of yourself more as an "it" than a "person". Additionally, you start to lose your empathy. The end result invariably involves an attempted rampage through the local neighborhood, killing anyone and everyone that you meet.
Assuming that the local cops (in the form of the cyber-psycho squad) manage to successfully bring you in instead of outright killing you, this is generally resolved through a combination of removing some of the cyberware you've had installed and long therapy sessions with a shrink. Depending on the exact circumstances, one or the other might be involved. Or both.
As for the trailer... people see what they want to see. I see a woman who's just had a "What the hell have I done!?" moment of shock and horror. People see what they want to see, though, and others are apparently seeing it as "CD Projekt really likes to ogle women."