I think "socially awkward robot" is easier to get with actual robots rather than cybernetic people. Like, even if you replace 100% of a person's body, that won't make them socially awkward. And since cyberpunk has never been big on robots (they're too much like traditional sci-fi maybe?) it has mostly been left up to postcyberpunk like GitS.
I think people are being oversensitive where this trailer is concerned. I hope these guys stick to their guns and give us something gritty to play with.
Btw, did Hitman ever explain why those assassins were dressed as sexy nuns? I mean, was there ever a practical reason for the outfits? I found that whole trailer to be stupid as hell. It made no sense.
From what I gathered they were specially trained agents in the art of assassination like Agent 47.
They also REALLY liked Ann Summers, like, had a frequent customer discount.
Also they're in the game for all of about five second it takes Agent 47 to kill them.
On topic, as a Geth fan how much capacity for robots is there in Cyberpunk 2020?
It's been awhile since I played but I don't recall there actually being much in the way of robots, in the vein of the Geth anyway. The closest thing was full conversion borgs which were basically human brains and spines stuck in a robotic frame. But there were some human android style robots from later source books that were used for various service duties (like the obligatory sexbot). Complex AI was kind of relegated to large mainframes, networks, and the like.
A lot of their ideas came from the 80's which had different ideas about how people thought things were going to be. Most of the tech was about augmenting humans not so much replacing them wholesale. By the standards of say Ghost in the Shell, where everyone is running around in almost completely artificial bodies, the tech and amount of augmentation of CP2020 would seem kind of primitive by comparison. Even the full borg stuff only came out in later supplements and were kind of retconned in by allowing one to avoid cyberpsychosis with advanced therapy. I'm curious to see what they decide to update.
Shame, ever since Geth in ME2/3 became my best bros I have wanted more socially awkward robots.
Even the Cyberpunk v3.0 setting, which had the most advanced technology, didn't have true robots. There were a lot more fully body cyborgs. And there were lots of slave-rigged remotes. But robots with an AI were non-existant.
Remember that cyberpunk (the genre, not the game, in this instance) is supposed to focus on the human condition. As such, robots are a bit of a distraction.
Shame, because every line any Geth said ever was Gold to me. Plus how much emotion Bio-ware got from those little armour plates on the Geth's head/lamp/optical array was impressive as fuck.
Though I can see why a setting that's really focused on 'what happens when man has technology at his command' doesn't need robots.
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
The really weird thing is full AI is a cyberpunk standard. The whole Sprawl trilogy centers around one.
Hooking up an AI to some limbs shouldn't be too hard, but you hardly ever see 'bots.
Though I can see why a setting that's really focused on 'what happens when man has technology at his command' doesn't need robots.
I think this is a misdiagnosis of the situation. Plenty of settings focused on "what happens when man has technology at his command" have robots. Star Trek has robots. Ghost in the Shell has robots. Blade Runner, probably my favorite piece of science fiction of all time, has robots. Some of the most interesting questions about humankind's access to technology has to do with robots, in fact - do they have souls? Can they feel emotions? Are they people? Is it okay to use them as slaves and kill them? That's pretty much the entirety of Blade Runner, it's a big part of Ghost in the Shell, and it's part of Data's arc on Star Trek.
I think the reason we don't see robots very much at all in cyberpunk is a tonal one - cyberpunk wants to stay away from traditional science fiction and carve its own niche. When people think of sci-fi, they think of C-3PO and R2-D2 and Rosie from The Jetsons and Gort from The Day the Earth Stood Still and Data from Star Trek and Robby the Robot from Forbidden Planet and Sonny from I, Robot and David from Prometheus (and also aliens and stuff). Cyberpunk moves far away from that - the punk part is about the street, it's about anti-heroes and the re-appropriation of technology for unintended ends and about cobbling together your own stuff and rebelling against society and causing chaos.
Robots are kind of too square for punk, I think. What unites all the robots I talked about? They are all, to varying degrees, cold and emotionless blocks of pure logic or pure drive, or at the very least they're all tool-like in form and function (and it is the degree to which they lack a function, or rebel against their function, that they often become interesting characters). They're built for a purpose, and barring philosophical questions of transcending that purpose, they're basically workers. Robots are built to be subservient by their very design: Rosie has a feather duster and a vacuum built into her body. That doesn't square with punk. You could, I suppose, reprogram the robots so that they don't serve their intended function, and that's what we get with the robotic gardener and robotic microlight in Freeside or the little Braun robot in Straylight, but even that gets pat kind of fast - the Braun is the only one that sticks around, and its plaintive flailing at Case with its pokey little arms (which just gets it swatted away) serves to remind us that punk's no place for a robot or for those whose tools are robots. What gets things done in cyberpunk is people doing unpredictable, free, people things rather than some drone built by a corporation doing robotic things. Robotic is the adjective for the zaibatsu salarymen, not a cyberpunk.
So, again, robots are too square. They call to mind classic sci-fi, the sci-fi of science and progress and the marvelous tools science has given us, and although that's not inimical to examining the theme of how humanity relates to technology, as you claimed, I think it is inimical to taking a punk attitude towards the whole ordeal.
edit - @chiasaur11, you kind of confirm my point, I think. AI isn't the problem - it's the squareness of robots.
DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
I've seen robotics in cyberpunk stuff before. Turner is recovering from an encounter with a robot known as a slamhound at the start of Count Zero. It seems that the robots you encounter in cyberpunk are of the smart-weapon or smart-tool variety, and not the autonomous mechanical beings of Asimov.
The cyberpunk usage of robots is all about expedience. There is no desire to engage in the godlike act of creation. The characters use technology in a different way in cyberpunk than the more optimistic speculative fiction of the past.
Right... because in the tank scene, her sexuality wasn't played up. She didn't put on sexually enticing clothing, crouch down in a sexually provocative pose, set her face into a blank stare, and wait for men to abuse her perfect, beautiful, untouchable body. She ran up to the tank and grotesquely tore herself apart. She has huge bulging inhuman muscles that quickly tear apart when we see her uncloaked, rather than a hot, traditionally sexy body with some flimsy arm blades.
Which is not to say that giving her an excuse to become naked wasn't obvious fanservice (can't she cloak with her suit on?). And which is also not to say that Ghost in the Shell more generally doesn't get constant shit for oversexualizing the major to a ridiculously inappropriate degree for zero reason. It does get shit and rightfully so, and if someone were to bring up Shirow's explanation for why he drew an all-girl orgy at one point (the explanation is literally "I drew an all-girl orgy because I didn't want to draw some guy's butt") then maybe we'd be bitching about that too. In fact, we did. Back on page 4.
I'm curious as to why it's "FUCKING CHILDISH" to want to call out what we perceive as sexism instead of just ignoring it and talking about sweet sci-fi video games with killer robot women. Like, everything I've seen that has anything to do with women when it comes to this Cyberpunk 2020 setting has struck me as fucking childish, or more accurately, ridiculously immature. None of them ever seem to have any pants on.
There's a reason the first series (episode 2, I think) has a direct reference to that scene--and it's better in every single regard.
She's in combat gear (the same as the rest of Section 9) because she no longer has to be naked to cloak.
And after emptying an entire magazine into the door, she tries to pull it open--only to have nothing happen. Because she's not stronger than the hydraulic door on an armored military tank.
It was a brilliant joke at the Oshii film. "Yeah, we remember that particular scene. And we laughed too."
Synthesis on
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
And after emptying an entire magazine into the door, she tries to pull it open--only to have nothing happen. Because she's not stronger than the hydraulic door on an armored military tank.
It was a brilliant joke at the Oshii film. "Yeah, we remember that particular scene. And we laughed too."
she wasnt stronger than the tank in the film either
unless you are referring to the idea she would tear off her own arms or?
Shame, because every line any Geth said ever was Gold to me. Plus how much emotion Bio-ware got from those little armour plates on the Geth's head/lamp/optical array was impressive as fuck.
Though I can see why a setting that's really focused on 'what happens when man has technology at his command' doesn't need robots.
Beyond that, Legion's point about not using Reaper technology because that would be essentially accepting another culture, another set of purposes, is 100% on point. I almost wish that Bioware was making this game so that they could expand on this idea of technology as a means of control, and sponsorship/path dependence as an authoritarian form of rule.
Because that's what cyberpunk was really about--this dialectical part of technology, where technology is largely developed in a way that is outside of the hands of the people even while it massively affects us (think about the towns, built along railroad lines to resupply and refuel coal-based engines, that died out in the switch to diesel. Think about the people who have lost their jobs to mechanization. Did they have any choice over the development of technology? Do we), while at the same time information technology allowed individuals to have far more power than they did before. Cyberpunk dystopias are worlds where technological sponsors use their autocratic control over the development of technology to wrest control over society, and others (hackers) use their abilities in that technology to fight for a more democratic world (and also themselves because noir).
Speaking of Ghost in the Shell, I've heard they're making a new series.
Not of Stand Alone Complex, this is apparently yet another franchise rendition.
Whaaat? I'd like to see something that occurs after 2nd Gig.
Solid State Society does.
Not to go too off-topic, but it did at least help me with something that annoyed me throughout the entire series.
Basically that the Major's always doing this work. But she's not doing it for the thrills. Or a sense of morality. Or even for the maintenance. And it's not like she's a glutton for money either.
What's even weirder is when they show her as a little girl in series 2 and she's cheerful and happy and they don't do anything to show how the heck she went from that to her current srs bsns persona.
They don't explain her motivations at the end of SSS, but at the very least they acknowledge that she might not even know herself either just why she does the work she does.
It's always weird to me that I like Stand Alone Complex, but she's probably the one element that I dislike the most. She has almost zero real personality or character to her outside of the occasional quirk the makers of the show might decide to give her. I tended to watch the show more for Batou and the Tachikoma's. It's funny that sentient AI tanks waxing lyrical about the philosophy of life made for far more interesting scenes than anything directly related to the Major.
EDIT: Oh, and apparently the new series is called Ghost in the Shell Arise, and we'll find out more on the 14th of Feb (they've released one picture of what's presumably the new rendition of the Major).
EDIT: Oh, and apparently the new series is called Ghost in the Shell Arise, and we'll find out more on the 14th of Feb (they've released one picture of what's presumably the new rendition of the Major).
While I'm happy to hear about what will hopefully be another good series...
WHY OH WHY OH WHY OH WHY OH WHY can't anyone seem to do Appleseed right!? I like the Appleseed manga more than I like the various Ghost in the Shell iterations, but boy does the animated Appleseed stuff suck in the story departments (though one look at the animated spider gun platforms in the first movie was almost worth the price of admission just by itself).
The old OVA was meh. The first movie was meh. The second movie was laughable ("We're going to make it harder for people to keep secrets by taking their spy satellites!" And the plot got even sillier the further it went.). I saw the first few episodes of the series, and even that was pretty meh.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
And after emptying an entire magazine into the door, she tries to pull it open--only to have nothing happen. Because she's not stronger than the hydraulic door on an armored military tank.
It was a brilliant joke at the Oshii film. "Yeah, we remember that particular scene. And we laughed too."
she wasnt stronger than the tank in the film either
unless you are referring to the idea she would tear off her own arms or?
She wasn't strong (or fanatical) enough to rip off her own arms was the point.
Speaking of Ghost in the Shell, I've heard they're making a new series.
Not of Stand Alone Complex, this is apparently yet another franchise rendition.
Whaaat? I'd like to see something that occurs after 2nd Gig.
Solid State Society does.
Not to go too off-topic, but it did at least help me with something that annoyed me throughout the entire series.
Basically that the Major's always doing this work. But she's not doing it for the thrills. Or a sense of morality. Or even for the maintenance. And it's not like she's a glutton for money either.
What's even weirder is when they show her as a little girl in series 2 and she's cheerful and happy and they don't do anything to show how the heck she went from that to her current srs bsns persona.
They don't explain her motivations at the end of SSS, but at the very least they acknowledge that she might not even know herself either just why she does the work she does.
It's always weird to me that I like Stand Alone Complex, but she's probably the one element that I dislike the most. She has almost zero real personality or character to her outside of the occasional quirk the makers of the show might decide to give her. I tended to watch the show more for Batou and the Tachikoma's. It's funny that sentient AI tanks waxing lyrical about the philosophy of life made for far more interesting scenes than anything directly related to the Major.
EDIT: Oh, and apparently the new series is called Ghost in the Shell Arise, and we'll find out more on the 14th of Feb (they've released one picture of what's presumably the new rendition of the Major).
I can't remember where I read this, but I think it's from her being a cyborg from such a young age that her personality developed. She had to go through numerous body replacements as she grew older, and got to the point where she wasn't really sure who she was anymore.
And after emptying an entire magazine into the door, she tries to pull it open--only to have nothing happen. Because she's not stronger than the hydraulic door on an armored military tank.
It was a brilliant joke at the Oshii film. "Yeah, we remember that particular scene. And we laughed too."
she wasnt stronger than the tank in the film either
unless you are referring to the idea she would tear off her own arms or?
She wasn't strong (or fanatical) enough to rip off her own arms was the point.
They weren't really her arms, though. They're just things, not an intrinsic element of who she is.
Expendable.
Replaceable.
Unnecessary except where they can be leveraged as tools.
And after emptying an entire magazine into the door, she tries to pull it open--only to have nothing happen. Because she's not stronger than the hydraulic door on an armored military tank.
It was a brilliant joke at the Oshii film. "Yeah, we remember that particular scene. And we laughed too."
she wasnt stronger than the tank in the film either
unless you are referring to the idea she would tear off her own arms or?
She wasn't strong (or fanatical) enough to rip off her own arms was the point.
They weren't really her arms, though. They're just things, not an intrinsic element of who she is.
Expendable.
Replaceable.
Unnecessary except where they can be leveraged as tools.
Only as expendable as "not needing them in the immediate future." Like the rest of her (government owned) body.
The GitS manga touches on this a lot--learning from mistakes. I actually think Oshii went that way just to distinguish from that mindset.
EDIT: Oh, and apparently the new series is called Ghost in the Shell Arise, and we'll find out more on the 14th of Feb (they've released one picture of what's presumably the new rendition of the Major).
While I'm happy to hear about what will hopefully be another good series...
WHY OH WHY OH WHY OH WHY OH WHY can't anyone seem to do Appleseed right!? I like the Appleseed manga more than I like the various Ghost in the Shell iterations, but boy does the animated Appleseed stuff suck in the story departments (though one look at the animated spider gun platforms in the first movie was almost worth the price of admission just by itself).
The old OVA was meh. The first movie was meh. The second movie was laughable ("We're going to make it harder for people to keep secrets by taking their spy satellites!" And the plot got even sillier the further it went.). I saw the first few episodes of the series, and even that was pretty meh.
It's hit or miss, I guess. Dominion got a decent (if overly played-up) OVA, and then a really good OVA (and then a weird one-episode special).
Synthesis on
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
And after emptying an entire magazine into the door, she tries to pull it open--only to have nothing happen. Because she's not stronger than the hydraulic door on an armored military tank.
It was a brilliant joke at the Oshii film. "Yeah, we remember that particular scene. And we laughed too."
she wasnt stronger than the tank in the film either
unless you are referring to the idea she would tear off her own arms or?
She wasn't strong (or fanatical) enough to rip off her own arms was the point.
ritey
but the thing is, thats by far the best scene in the film.in fact its the only scene i (or anybody else i know who saw it ages ago) can remember.
it was swaggular. the series is way better, but its v diff. scene wouldnlt make any sense in it
And after emptying an entire magazine into the door, she tries to pull it open--only to have nothing happen. Because she's not stronger than the hydraulic door on an armored military tank.
It was a brilliant joke at the Oshii film. "Yeah, we remember that particular scene. And we laughed too."
she wasnt stronger than the tank in the film either
unless you are referring to the idea she would tear off her own arms or?
She wasn't strong (or fanatical) enough to rip off her own arms was the point.
ritey
but the thing is, thats by far the best scene in the film.in fact its the only scene i (or anybody else i know who saw it ages ago) can remember.
it was swaggular. the series is way better, but its v diff. scene wouldnlt make any sense in it
While I agree it's a bit silly for Motoko to essentially perform a suicide mission when she knows help is on the way, but this scene is probably the most effective scene in the whole movie about her particular condition.
Once you start seeing your body as a tool that can be broken and rebuilt, then what separates you from the automated robot in the eyes of your employee or government? 40 years effective military life? How about 80? 90? 120 years?
And after emptying an entire magazine into the door, she tries to pull it open--only to have nothing happen. Because she's not stronger than the hydraulic door on an armored military tank.
It was a brilliant joke at the Oshii film. "Yeah, we remember that particular scene. And we laughed too."
she wasnt stronger than the tank in the film either
unless you are referring to the idea she would tear off her own arms or?
She wasn't strong (or fanatical) enough to rip off her own arms was the point.
ritey
but the thing is, thats by far the best scene in the film.in fact its the only scene i (or anybody else i know who saw it ages ago) can remember.
it was swaggular. the series is way better, but its v diff. scene wouldnlt make any sense in it
While I agree it's a bit silly for Motoko to essentially perform a suicide mission when she knows help is on the way, but this scene is probably the most effective scene in the whole movie about her particular condition.
Once you start seeing your body as a tool that can be broken and rebuilt, then what separates you from the automated robot in the eyes of your employee or government? 40 years effective military life? How about 80? 90? 120 years?
Or put more simply, it demonstrates that they don't learn from their mistakes then (also Oshii's flare for the super-dramatic).
That and more easily distracted--but that applies the whole of Section 9 in the film versus other appearances. You won't be rebuilt if your brain case is squished because you made the mistake of crippling yourself, so you won't be worrying about the next 10 years (or 10 minutes).
EDIT: Jesus, Geth is following EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE. Now I see the fear!
EDIT EDIT EDIT: @surrealitycheck, that's a good point though--everyone remembers that scene, which is why the series references it with such a blatant wink. "Don't rip your arms off, you may need them to save lives."
Interview with Pondsmith but unfortunately there's basically nothing interesting there. He does say that Deus Ex isn't cyberpunk, though, so that's fun.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Interview with Pondsmith but unfortunately there's basically nothing interesting there. He does say that Deus Ex isn't cyberpunk, though, so that's fun.
critical levels of pondsmith detected
pondsmith detectors failing
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
How in the world does GTA3 qualify as cyberpunk minus the hardware?
I'd never thought whether or not Mirror's Edge was cyberpunk myself either. More of a punkish take on a corporate dystopia not very far off, if not contemporary.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
mirrors edge was fucking swagtacular
but because the story has basically no interaction with the premise and the gameplay is as low tech as it gets i dont think it counts
I wasn't a huge fan of ME, but I did love what it did with perspective on the whole (should have had your character awkwardly/incompetently sighting firearms instead of a reticle) and have been meaning to give it another try.
And while there definitely seemed to be a punk element there (albeit with unusual hipster undertones at times), yeah, I don't think it was very "cyber".
Admitedly Mirror's Edge's story was weird Noir when the setting was punkish/corporate utopia.
PS. Don't mention the gunplay in ME, it makes me get flashbacks and cry fits of rage
Cyber punk ME could be interesting. Given that you could mechanically introduce easier platforming through augmentation but at the cost of a 'worse' ending as faith becomes more and more reliant on the corporations products.
The fact that would have made more sense as a story than the one written by Pratchett's daughter kinda depresses me.
Mirror's Edge was totally cyberpunk. A freerunning android that can regenerate itself after an indefinite number of bullet wounds and that can run and jump for infinite time without getting tired works for a hacker and delivers physical information because the government has control of all digital communication.
Mirror's Edge was totally cyberpunk. A freerunning android that can regenerate itself after an indefinite number of bullet wounds and that can run and jump for infinite time without getting tired works for a hacker and delivers physical information because the government has control of all digital communication.
Totally doesn't count. It's not grimdark blade runner-esque perpetual night pseudo-industrial slum environments. That's the only thing cyberpunk can be!
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Mirror's Edge was totally cyberpunk. A freerunning android that can regenerate itself after an indefinite number of bullet wounds and that can run and jump for infinite time without getting tired works for a hacker and delivers physical information because the government has control of all digital communication.
Steampunk.
Because she's powered by steam. And there are lots of pipes everywhere. It's pretty obvious.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
mein gott
thats why they put in physx for the steam. IT WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE ALL ALONG
Posts
Even the Cyberpunk v3.0 setting, which had the most advanced technology, didn't have true robots. There were a lot more fully body cyborgs. And there were lots of slave-rigged remotes. But robots with an AI were non-existant.
Remember that cyberpunk (the genre, not the game, in this instance) is supposed to focus on the human condition. As such, robots are a bit of a distraction.
Shame, because every line any Geth said ever was Gold to me. Plus how much emotion Bio-ware got from those little armour plates on the Geth's head/lamp/optical array was impressive as fuck.
Though I can see why a setting that's really focused on 'what happens when man has technology at his command' doesn't need robots.
Hooking up an AI to some limbs shouldn't be too hard, but you hardly ever see 'bots.
Why I fear the ocean.
I think the reason we don't see robots very much at all in cyberpunk is a tonal one - cyberpunk wants to stay away from traditional science fiction and carve its own niche. When people think of sci-fi, they think of C-3PO and R2-D2 and Rosie from The Jetsons and Gort from The Day the Earth Stood Still and Data from Star Trek and Robby the Robot from Forbidden Planet and Sonny from I, Robot and David from Prometheus (and also aliens and stuff). Cyberpunk moves far away from that - the punk part is about the street, it's about anti-heroes and the re-appropriation of technology for unintended ends and about cobbling together your own stuff and rebelling against society and causing chaos.
Robots are kind of too square for punk, I think. What unites all the robots I talked about? They are all, to varying degrees, cold and emotionless blocks of pure logic or pure drive, or at the very least they're all tool-like in form and function (and it is the degree to which they lack a function, or rebel against their function, that they often become interesting characters). They're built for a purpose, and barring philosophical questions of transcending that purpose, they're basically workers. Robots are built to be subservient by their very design: Rosie has a feather duster and a vacuum built into her body. That doesn't square with punk. You could, I suppose, reprogram the robots so that they don't serve their intended function, and that's what we get with the robotic gardener and robotic microlight in Freeside or the little Braun robot in Straylight, but even that gets pat kind of fast - the Braun is the only one that sticks around, and its plaintive flailing at Case with its pokey little arms (which just gets it swatted away) serves to remind us that punk's no place for a robot or for those whose tools are robots. What gets things done in cyberpunk is people doing unpredictable, free, people things rather than some drone built by a corporation doing robotic things. Robotic is the adjective for the zaibatsu salarymen, not a cyberpunk.
So, again, robots are too square. They call to mind classic sci-fi, the sci-fi of science and progress and the marvelous tools science has given us, and although that's not inimical to examining the theme of how humanity relates to technology, as you claimed, I think it is inimical to taking a punk attitude towards the whole ordeal.
edit - @chiasaur11, you kind of confirm my point, I think. AI isn't the problem - it's the squareness of robots.
And I fucking love that @Geth awesomed this post.
The cyberpunk usage of robots is all about expedience. There is no desire to engage in the godlike act of creation. The characters use technology in a different way in cyberpunk than the more optimistic speculative fiction of the past.
There's a reason the first series (episode 2, I think) has a direct reference to that scene--and it's better in every single regard.
She's in combat gear (the same as the rest of Section 9) because she no longer has to be naked to cloak.
And after emptying an entire magazine into the door, she tries to pull it open--only to have nothing happen. Because she's not stronger than the hydraulic door on an armored military tank.
It was a brilliant joke at the Oshii film. "Yeah, we remember that particular scene. And we laughed too."
she wasnt stronger than the tank in the film either
unless you are referring to the idea she would tear off her own arms or?
Beyond that, Legion's point about not using Reaper technology because that would be essentially accepting another culture, another set of purposes, is 100% on point. I almost wish that Bioware was making this game so that they could expand on this idea of technology as a means of control, and sponsorship/path dependence as an authoritarian form of rule.
Because that's what cyberpunk was really about--this dialectical part of technology, where technology is largely developed in a way that is outside of the hands of the people even while it massively affects us (think about the towns, built along railroad lines to resupply and refuel coal-based engines, that died out in the switch to diesel. Think about the people who have lost their jobs to mechanization. Did they have any choice over the development of technology? Do we), while at the same time information technology allowed individuals to have far more power than they did before. Cyberpunk dystopias are worlds where technological sponsors use their autocratic control over the development of technology to wrest control over society, and others (hackers) use their abilities in that technology to fight for a more democratic world (and also themselves because noir).
If you're interested in stuff like this, Volti's Society and Technological Change and Pacey's Technology in World Society: a thousand year history are great places to start.
edit: oh god Geth's caught on
Not of Stand Alone Complex, this is apparently yet another franchise rendition.
Whaaat? I'd like to see something that occurs after 2nd Gig.
Solid State Society does.
Not to go too off-topic, but it did at least help me with something that annoyed me throughout the entire series.
What's even weirder is when they show her as a little girl in series 2 and she's cheerful and happy and they don't do anything to show how the heck she went from that to her current srs bsns persona.
They don't explain her motivations at the end of SSS, but at the very least they acknowledge that she might not even know herself either just why she does the work she does.
It's always weird to me that I like Stand Alone Complex, but she's probably the one element that I dislike the most. She has almost zero real personality or character to her outside of the occasional quirk the makers of the show might decide to give her. I tended to watch the show more for Batou and the Tachikoma's. It's funny that sentient AI tanks waxing lyrical about the philosophy of life made for far more interesting scenes than anything directly related to the Major.
EDIT: Oh, and apparently the new series is called Ghost in the Shell Arise, and we'll find out more on the 14th of Feb (they've released one picture of what's presumably the new rendition of the Major).
While I'm happy to hear about what will hopefully be another good series...
WHY OH WHY OH WHY OH WHY OH WHY can't anyone seem to do Appleseed right!? I like the Appleseed manga more than I like the various Ghost in the Shell iterations, but boy does the animated Appleseed stuff suck in the story departments (though one look at the animated spider gun platforms in the first movie was almost worth the price of admission just by itself).
The old OVA was meh. The first movie was meh. The second movie was laughable ("We're going to make it harder for people to keep secrets by taking their spy satellites!" And the plot got even sillier the further it went.). I saw the first few episodes of the series, and even that was pretty meh.
No, the cloaking suit she was wearing wasn't her skin. It was just skin tight and worn under her other clothes.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Man anyone who poo-poos that scene is a jerk
She wasn't strong (or fanatical) enough to rip off her own arms was the point.
They weren't really her arms, though. They're just things, not an intrinsic element of who she is.
Expendable.
Replaceable.
Unnecessary except where they can be leveraged as tools.
Only as expendable as "not needing them in the immediate future." Like the rest of her (government owned) body.
The GitS manga touches on this a lot--learning from mistakes. I actually think Oshii went that way just to distinguish from that mindset.
It's hit or miss, I guess. Dominion got a decent (if overly played-up) OVA, and then a really good OVA (and then a weird one-episode special).
ritey
but the thing is, thats by far the best scene in the film.in fact its the only scene i (or anybody else i know who saw it ages ago) can remember.
it was swaggular. the series is way better, but its v diff. scene wouldnlt make any sense in it
skunks
While I agree it's a bit silly for Motoko to essentially perform a suicide mission when she knows help is on the way, but this scene is probably the most effective scene in the whole movie about her particular condition.
Once you start seeing your body as a tool that can be broken and rebuilt, then what separates you from the automated robot in the eyes of your employee or government? 40 years effective military life? How about 80? 90? 120 years?
Or put more simply, it demonstrates that they don't learn from their mistakes then (also Oshii's flare for the super-dramatic).
That and more easily distracted--but that applies the whole of Section 9 in the film versus other appearances. You won't be rebuilt if your brain case is squished because you made the mistake of crippling yourself, so you won't be worrying about the next 10 years (or 10 minutes).
EDIT: Jesus, Geth is following EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE. Now I see the fear!
EDIT EDIT EDIT: @surrealitycheck, that's a good point though--everyone remembers that scene, which is why the series references it with such a blatant wink. "Don't rip your arms off, you may need them to save lives."
critical levels of pondsmith detected
pondsmith detectors failing
but because the story has basically no interaction with the premise and the gameplay is as low tech as it gets i dont think it counts
And while there definitely seemed to be a punk element there (albeit with unusual hipster undertones at times), yeah, I don't think it was very "cyber".
Admitedly Mirror's Edge's story was weird Noir when the setting was punkish/corporate utopia.
PS. Don't mention the gunplay in ME, it makes me get flashbacks and cry fits of rage
Cyber punk ME could be interesting. Given that you could mechanically introduce easier platforming through augmentation but at the cost of a 'worse' ending as faith becomes more and more reliant on the corporations products.
The fact that would have made more sense as a story than the one written by Pratchett's daughter kinda depresses me.
Totally doesn't count. It's not grimdark blade runner-esque perpetual night pseudo-industrial slum environments. That's the only thing cyberpunk can be!
lies
run on wall firing machine pistol in slow motion
then u will understand it alllllllllll
Steampunk.
Because she's powered by steam. And there are lots of pipes everywhere. It's pretty obvious.
thats why they put in physx for the steam. IT WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE ALL ALONG
I did the first level without shooting anything because I didn't know how to disarm/forgot in the fun.
That was a peaceful, innocent time of my life.
Then there was the boat and I was never the same again.
Also if Cyberpunk looks half as pretty as ME does it'll be gorgeous.
I did the first level without shooting anything because I didn't know how to disarm/forgot in the fun.
That was a peaceful, innocent time of my life.
Then there was the boat and I was never the same again.
Also if Cyberpunk looks half as pretty as ME does it'll be gorgeous.
I went through the whole game without shooting anything but a window. Pulling a trigger is like ordering takeout.
Why I fear the ocean.