MaffewOfBotchamania @Maffewgregg
Have decided that Heyman is Bruce Banner and Brock is The Hulk. The people who got messed up by BROHULK had it coming.
Along those lines everything Miz said to Heyman and Vickie about them being happy Vince was injured really made those two seem like the good guys. Just because Vince dangles a promotion before you, and bullies you into making matches you're happy he's hurt. And he crushed your company and you're happy when bad things happen to him?
I think only Punk and Heyman prounounce Maddox weird and it's kind of annoying but whatever.
* Big Show is shown arriving on his bus. He comes to the ring and cuts a promo, announcing that Alberto Del Rio is suspended. Show blames Booker T for what happened and out he comes. Show vs. Kane is announced.
* Cody Rhodes beat Kofi Kingston.
* The Great Khali defeated Titus O'Neil.
* Mark Henry comes out and destroys Khali to a big pop. Henry announces the Hall of Pain is back open. Henry wants a spot in the Chamber match. Booker comes out and announces Henry vs. Randy Orton.
* Big Show quickly beat Kane.
* Alberto Del Rio is outside in the parking lot and he's taken the wheels off Show's tour bus. Show comes to the parking lot but gets a bunch of paint dropped on top of him from the roof. Del Rio laughs and drives off.
* Jack Swagger squashed Justin Gabriel.
* Tensai beat Drew McIntyre by DQ when 3MB attacked him. Brodus Clay made the save.
* Antonio Cesaro beat Sin Cara.
* Mark Henry defeated Randy Orton to earn a spot in the Elimination Chamber.
That sounds like a pretty damn good show so of course I won't be able to watch it this week. However after this week my weekends are free again so I should be able to watch both Smackdown the Universal HD Raw replay on a regular basis again.
Apparently in the dark match Cena announced that he, Sheamus and Ryback are facing the Shield in EC. It's likely going to be inside the Chamber.
Yeah, because they couldn't have announced that during the clusterfuck ending, right.
I guess if they have to have two Chamber matches on one show that's not a bad way to do it.
Truthfully, the more I think about this idea the more I like it. The WarGames element of the EC will be brought out in full force. But please WWE, authorize some blood letting beforehand.
Apparently in the dark match Cena announced that he, Sheamus and Ryback are facing the Shield in EC. It's likely going to be inside the Chamber.
Yeah, because they couldn't have announced that during the clusterfuck ending, right.
I guess if they have to have two Chamber matches on one show that's not a bad way to do it.
Truthfully, the more I think about this idea the more I like it. The WarGames element of the EC will be brought out in full force. But please WWE, authorize some blood letting beforehand.
If any blood happens, it's going to be an accident. WWE is still PG, and blood is still taboo, and that isn't going to change, especially if they want to keep Bruno happy and going in the Hall.
Apparently in the dark match Cena announced that he, Sheamus and Ryback are facing the Shield in EC. It's likely going to be inside the Chamber.
Yeah, because they couldn't have announced that during the clusterfuck ending, right.
I guess if they have to have two Chamber matches on one show that's not a bad way to do it.
Truthfully, the more I think about this idea the more I like it. The WarGames element of the EC will be brought out in full force. But please WWE, authorize some blood letting beforehand.
If any blood happens, it's going to be an accident. WWE is still PG, and blood is still taboo, and that isn't going to change, especially if they want to keep Bruno happy and going in the Hall.
I'm pretty sure cutting out all blood wasn't an issue for Bruno. But then again, the guy has hated wrestling since 1984 so who knows.
(1) Jack Swagger beat Jimmy Uso via submission with the Patriot Act anklelock. Swagger now goes by "The Real American" Jack Swagger.
(2) Divas champion Kaitlyn beat Natalya via spear. They shook hands and hugged post-match.
MAIN EVENT
Cody Rhodes said he is holding Main Event hostage until Booker T comes out and puts him in the Elimination Chamber match. Michael Cole came on the mic and said that Booker is not here tonight. Instead, Rhodes gets to face Sheamus. Sheamus came out impersonating Booker, Vickie Guerrero, and Mr. McMahon before shoving Cody out of the ring to set up their match.
(1) Sheamus beat Cody Rhodes with the Brogue Kick in 15 minutes. Solid, hard-hitting match. There was a nice top-rope enziguiri spot from Rhodes and a nice fallaway slam into the ringside barricade from Sheamus.
Damien Sandow came out and explained that Cody's loss was a travesty and that he will avenge Cody's loss against Daniel Bryan next.
(2) Damien Sandow beat WWE tag champion Daniel Bryan. Kane's ringpost pyro erupted during Bryan's finishing routine, allowing Damien to hit the straight-jacket neckbreaker for the win. Kane came to ringside and stared down Bryan post-match.
(3) Cameron & Naomi beat Aksana & Tamina in Divas action. Naomi, who was particularly impressive, won with a big dropkick. Brodus Clay was on commentary.
Did Vince ever do anything to take down ECW? He competed against them, yea, but I never saw him as going after them the way Bischoff is always portrayed as trying to destroy ECW. Miz bringing that up after Vince essentially resurrected ECW (and then WWE-ized it) just seemed weird. That, and Miz trying to be super face and stand down Brock seemed so weird.
Mix does not work as the I WILL NOT BACK DOWN FROM YOU face against Brock Lesnar because I don't think "wow he was brave to stand up to a much bigger guy" I think "wow he was dumb for going toe to toe with a guy who outweighs him by 100 lbs." Make Miz a cowardly heel again please.
Shield are really the Undertaker divided into 3 separate entities. When all 3 are in the EC match at once, the lights go out, you see lightning, and Undertaker is left there as the conscience of the WWE.
The Shield vs. the good guys should totally be an EC match, and the first 3 entrants should be The Shield so they can just stand around for 20 minutes banging on the other cells.
I figured that's where they were going with this since last week.
Apparently in the dark match Cena announced that he, Sheamus and Ryback are facing the Shield in EC. It's likely going to be inside the Chamber.
Yeah, because they couldn't have announced that during the clusterfuck ending, right.
I guess if they have to have two Chamber matches on one show that's not a bad way to do it.
Truthfully, the more I think about this idea the more I like it. The WarGames element of the EC will be brought out in full force. But please WWE, authorize some blood letting beforehand.
If any blood happens, it's going to be an accident. WWE is still PG, and blood is still taboo, and that isn't going to change, especially if they want to keep Bruno happy and going in the Hall.
I'm pretty sure cutting out all blood wasn't an issue for Bruno. But then again, the guy has hated wrestling since 1984 so who knows.
Is there a good place (or can someone here tell me) the full scope of Bruno's beef with Vince? An article I read earlier just mentioned the drugs and the violence/Attitude era, and that both of those have (supposedly) been dealt with, making Bruno happy.
Cue people figuring that once Bruno is in, Vince says "f@#& this $#!&!" and brings back Attitude as soon as Bruno is in, by the way.
I'm really curious as to what else there is. I think I knew more about it once, but it's been a long time.
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PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
Did Vince ever do anything to take down ECW? He competed against them, yea, but I never saw him as going after them the way Bischoff is always portrayed as trying to destroy ECW. Miz bringing that up after Vince essentially resurrected ECW (and then WWE-ized it) just seemed weird. That, and Miz trying to be super face and stand down Brock seemed so weird.
Vince had a working deal with ECW where he would pay them when he poached their talent, which he did regularly. He brought in Shane Douglas at the only time in his career that he was relevant and wasted him with the Dean Douglas gimmick. He brought in Scorpio and had him job as Flash Funk in matches where his entrance was longer than the match. Think Brodus Clay but with the wasted potential to be a great high flyer. Not everything was just Vince buying talent because he could though, he made a killing off the Dudleys after he took them. More egregious though was the blatant way they ripped off ECW when it came to characters and storylines. Basically the "attitude era" was a dumbed down focus tested version of what ECW pioneered. Steve Austin's character, for example, was a composite of his character in ECW along with that of Sandman's. Hell,both were even crucified. Rob Van Dam's heel gimmick in both WWF and ECW was Mr. Monday Night implying that he would sell out to Vince. Still, Vince had to compete with WCW's poaching of ideas and talent from ECW and at least Vince was smart enough to fund the thing he was cribbing from enough to keep it alive. Then like all of Vince's pets this golden goose eventually died when he stepped on it too hard.
ECW landed a deal with TNN, which meant they had to spend much more money on production and talent for weekly televised shows but they would stand to gain popularity and advertising revenue. In actuality TNN buried the product, gave it no advertisement or advertisers. One of the primary advertisers on the show was RollerJam, a roller derby show that ran on TNN right after ECW. Any potential interest to advertise on the show quickly dried up after the initial episodes tanked in the ratings. TNN wasn't committing some weird financial self abuse though. They were using ECW as a test subject to see if wrestling would work on the network. WWE was publicly negotiating with the network as a replacement while ECW was still on the air, and until the show was canceled Heyman was legally forbidden from shopping for a deal with another network. When it was all said and done ECW was left in too much debt with no television deal and thus remains one of the only companies in the history of the business to go bankrupt while still selling out shows.
That whole TV deal with TNN and ECW was so very bizarre. I don't understand why you wouldn't give a show some type of chance. Setting it up to fail just seems like a waste of everyone's time and money.
Is Heyman just on air talent at this point, or does he have any creative input?
Heyman got screwed by TNN no doubt but to me it was clear that Paul had no idea what to do anymore by late 1999. I still contend that they had a pretty much crap product from late 99 to their end.
I loved that TNN block back in the day. ECW, Roller Jam, and Slam Ball. And occasionally some monster trucks before that. What more could a teenage boy want?
HawkstoneDon't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered Userregular
There is some subtext on the ECW TNN thing thats missing here. The shows lost quality because TNN would explicitly censor and reject ideas for shows. That was part of why Cyrus had the " network" gimmick at the time. It was a real world commentary on what was actually being done to Heyman and ECW. TNN was actually forcing them into the ground while backdoor dealing to replace them with WWE programming. The reason Paul legit hated Vince and may still is that he believes and he could be right, that Vince was pulling the strings on the whole deal. You could argue that Paul would have run them into the ground eventually anyway...because by all accounts he was as terrible with the money as he was a genius with the book, but it was always fishy how TNN which started as a country music station buried ECW which was to be the flagship of their change over to traditional programming and then essentially used WWE programming to leverage themselves into what is now Spike TV.
Watching the 6 man TLC match last December on my PS3, such a fantastic brawl and some of the best heel booking WWE has done in years. Which makes me sad that Cena will probably single-handedly pin all 3 at EC this month. Please WWE, if you must have the Shield lose at the Chamber, don't have Cena do it all be himself. I'd even be fine with it ending up as Cena and let's say Reigns as the last two left and Cena picks up the victory after a hard fought match but I just don't have faith they'll do that. And I get it, Cena is facing Rock for the title at Mania and needs to look strong, that's fine but I'm just depressed it will be at the expense of Rollins, Ambrose, and Roman.
I could see the Shield winning the tag titles before Mania though to set up Kane vs. D-Bry though, that'd be cool.
I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
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PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
There is some subtext on the ECW TNN thing thats missing here. The shows lost quality because TNN would explicitly censor and reject ideas for shows. That was part of why Cyrus had the " network" gimmick at the time. It was a real world commentary on what was actually being done to Heyman and ECW. TNN was actually forcing them into the ground while backdoor dealing to replace them with WWE programming. The reason Paul legit hated Vince and may still is that he believes and he could be right, that Vince was pulling the strings on the whole deal. You could argue that Paul would have run them into the ground eventually anyway...because by all accounts he was as terrible with the money as he was a genius with the book, but it was always fishy how TNN which started as a country music station buried ECW which was to be the flagship of their change over to traditional programming and then essentially used WWE programming to leverage themselves into what is now Spike TV.
Yeah, that was always sort of the implied undertone of the whole thing. TNN had the option to take the better and more influential product and turn it into a mega-hit for far less money than WWE would cost them, but that was never the plan. The plan was clearly to use ECW in such a way that TNN and WWE would negotiate a better deal while ECW would burden all the growing pains. To add insult to injury the WWE/TNN deal didn't even last that long and since both WWE's main source of "inspiration" (to put it kindly) and main source of competition (WCW) were both gone the years they spent on Spike TV were probably some of the worst the company had since the early 90s.
I seem to remember back in 2003 I saw and advert on Spike pimping their aquisition of one of the CSI shows and the schedule said "WWE Raw - 7 pm. CSI - 9 pm." and I was thinking Holy shit because I had completely sworn off the IWC back in early 2002 due to the constant bitching and negativity. Was I just imagining that or was Spike really planning on putting Raw on at 7?
I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
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David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
Yeah, that was always sort of the implied undertone of the whole thing. TNN had the option to take the better and more influential product and turn it into a mega-hit for far less money than WWE would cost them, but that was never the plan.
By late 1999, though, ECW wasn't the better product or even the more influential anymore. They'd been raided for too much talent, with Taz and the Dudleys leaving at almost the same time as the TNN run started.
Also, it's worth remembering that Heyman wasn't exactly Mr. Congeniality when it came to dealing with TNN. The first ECW broadcast wasn't actually a new ECW broadcast, instead it was a collection of old promos, matches and ads for upcoming live events. The main event was Spike Dudley v. Sal E. Graziano. And running a storyline where Cyrus was representing the evil network trying to destroy the show probably didn't help their standing with, you know, the network running the show.
Really, the problem with the TV deal more than anything was that it came too late. If they'd had a TV show back when they had a collection of talent that might actually rival WCW and the WWE, they probably could have overtaken WCW as number two. At least when WCW crashed. Instead they ended up with a main event where a wrestler under contract with WCW faced a wrestler under contract with the WWE for the ECW world title. That pretty much sums up where ECW was at the time.
Really, the problem with the TV deal more than anything was that it came too late. If ROH had a TV show back when they had a collection of talent that might actually rival TNA and the WWE, they probably could have overtaken TNA as number two.
This is what I saw when I read that portion of your post.
Kreutz on
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David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
That's unfair... to... either WCW or TNA. I'm not sure which.
Was I just imagining that or was Spike really planning on putting Raw on at 7?
I don't quite get what your asking, seeing as before the change to 3 hours Raw had always been on at 7 since I started into wrestling again in mid 00's. For as we know, without saying anything in timezones, it is always assumed to be in my time zone.
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Along those lines everything Miz said to Heyman and Vickie about them being happy Vince was injured really made those two seem like the good guys. Just because Vince dangles a promotion before you, and bullies you into making matches you're happy he's hurt. And he crushed your company and you're happy when bad things happen to him?
I think only Punk and Heyman prounounce Maddox weird and it's kind of annoying but whatever.
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Yeah, because they couldn't have announced that during the clusterfuck ending, right.
Steam
Smite: Plutoniumwombat
Steam
I don't see Daniel Bryan listed in it
that's about the only thing
I guess if they have to have two Chamber matches on one show that's not a bad way to do it.
Truthfully, the more I think about this idea the more I like it. The WarGames element of the EC will be brought out in full force. But please WWE, authorize some blood letting beforehand.
Steam
If any blood happens, it's going to be an accident. WWE is still PG, and blood is still taboo, and that isn't going to change, especially if they want to keep Bruno happy and going in the Hall.
Steam
I'm pretty sure cutting out all blood wasn't an issue for Bruno. But then again, the guy has hated wrestling since 1984 so who knows.
(1) Jack Swagger beat Jimmy Uso via submission with the Patriot Act anklelock. Swagger now goes by "The Real American" Jack Swagger.
(2) Divas champion Kaitlyn beat Natalya via spear. They shook hands and hugged post-match.
MAIN EVENT
Cody Rhodes said he is holding Main Event hostage until Booker T comes out and puts him in the Elimination Chamber match. Michael Cole came on the mic and said that Booker is not here tonight. Instead, Rhodes gets to face Sheamus. Sheamus came out impersonating Booker, Vickie Guerrero, and Mr. McMahon before shoving Cody out of the ring to set up their match.
(1) Sheamus beat Cody Rhodes with the Brogue Kick in 15 minutes. Solid, hard-hitting match. There was a nice top-rope enziguiri spot from Rhodes and a nice fallaway slam into the ringside barricade from Sheamus.
Damien Sandow came out and explained that Cody's loss was a travesty and that he will avenge Cody's loss against Daniel Bryan next.
(2) Damien Sandow beat WWE tag champion Daniel Bryan. Kane's ringpost pyro erupted during Bryan's finishing routine, allowing Damien to hit the straight-jacket neckbreaker for the win. Kane came to ringside and stared down Bryan post-match.
(3) Cameron & Naomi beat Aksana & Tamina in Divas action. Naomi, who was particularly impressive, won with a big dropkick. Brodus Clay was on commentary.
Steam
I see KENTA has been swiping from Bryan's moveset.
Nah...he'll convince Trips to sign RJ Brewer and Team America will form
Gotta beat Nitro, don't you know!
I would love that.
I figured that's where they were going with this since last week.
Is there a good place (or can someone here tell me) the full scope of Bruno's beef with Vince? An article I read earlier just mentioned the drugs and the violence/Attitude era, and that both of those have (supposedly) been dealt with, making Bruno happy.
I'm really curious as to what else there is. I think I knew more about it once, but it's been a long time.
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Vince had a working deal with ECW where he would pay them when he poached their talent, which he did regularly. He brought in Shane Douglas at the only time in his career that he was relevant and wasted him with the Dean Douglas gimmick. He brought in Scorpio and had him job as Flash Funk in matches where his entrance was longer than the match. Think Brodus Clay but with the wasted potential to be a great high flyer. Not everything was just Vince buying talent because he could though, he made a killing off the Dudleys after he took them. More egregious though was the blatant way they ripped off ECW when it came to characters and storylines. Basically the "attitude era" was a dumbed down focus tested version of what ECW pioneered. Steve Austin's character, for example, was a composite of his character in ECW along with that of Sandman's. Hell,both were even crucified. Rob Van Dam's heel gimmick in both WWF and ECW was Mr. Monday Night implying that he would sell out to Vince. Still, Vince had to compete with WCW's poaching of ideas and talent from ECW and at least Vince was smart enough to fund the thing he was cribbing from enough to keep it alive. Then like all of Vince's pets this golden goose eventually died when he stepped on it too hard.
ECW landed a deal with TNN, which meant they had to spend much more money on production and talent for weekly televised shows but they would stand to gain popularity and advertising revenue. In actuality TNN buried the product, gave it no advertisement or advertisers. One of the primary advertisers on the show was RollerJam, a roller derby show that ran on TNN right after ECW. Any potential interest to advertise on the show quickly dried up after the initial episodes tanked in the ratings. TNN wasn't committing some weird financial self abuse though. They were using ECW as a test subject to see if wrestling would work on the network. WWE was publicly negotiating with the network as a replacement while ECW was still on the air, and until the show was canceled Heyman was legally forbidden from shopping for a deal with another network. When it was all said and done ECW was left in too much debt with no television deal and thus remains one of the only companies in the history of the business to go bankrupt while still selling out shows.
So, yeah, he kinda did.
Is Heyman just on air talent at this point, or does he have any creative input?
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I was trying to explain that show to my wife the other day and she thought it was dumb.
Psh, girls.
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The first episode I watched was The Dudley Boyz vs Raven/Dreamer for the tag titles.
Only now do I know how huge of a deal Dreamer and Raven teaming up was.
(They won, it was still awesome.)
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I could see the Shield winning the tag titles before Mania though to set up Kane vs. D-Bry though, that'd be cool.
Yeah, that was always sort of the implied undertone of the whole thing. TNN had the option to take the better and more influential product and turn it into a mega-hit for far less money than WWE would cost them, but that was never the plan. The plan was clearly to use ECW in such a way that TNN and WWE would negotiate a better deal while ECW would burden all the growing pains. To add insult to injury the WWE/TNN deal didn't even last that long and since both WWE's main source of "inspiration" (to put it kindly) and main source of competition (WCW) were both gone the years they spent on Spike TV were probably some of the worst the company had since the early 90s.
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Oh, and to the notion that Paul had lost it by 1999?
The time he spent running Smackdown was easily the strongest that show has ever been.
By late 1999, though, ECW wasn't the better product or even the more influential anymore. They'd been raided for too much talent, with Taz and the Dudleys leaving at almost the same time as the TNN run started.
Also, it's worth remembering that Heyman wasn't exactly Mr. Congeniality when it came to dealing with TNN. The first ECW broadcast wasn't actually a new ECW broadcast, instead it was a collection of old promos, matches and ads for upcoming live events. The main event was Spike Dudley v. Sal E. Graziano. And running a storyline where Cyrus was representing the evil network trying to destroy the show probably didn't help their standing with, you know, the network running the show.
Really, the problem with the TV deal more than anything was that it came too late. If they'd had a TV show back when they had a collection of talent that might actually rival WCW and the WWE, they probably could have overtaken WCW as number two. At least when WCW crashed. Instead they ended up with a main event where a wrestler under contract with WCW faced a wrestler under contract with the WWE for the ECW world title. That pretty much sums up where ECW was at the time.
This is what I saw when I read that portion of your post.
I don't quite get what your asking, seeing as before the change to 3 hours Raw had always been on at 7 since I started into wrestling again in mid 00's. For as we know, without saying anything in timezones, it is always assumed to be in my time zone.