Which is better, GW2 or WoW5?

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  • KreutzKreutz Registered User regular
    Not to beat a horse that died in 2009, but after "there must always be a Lich King" I refuse to believe WoW has actual lore anymore. Bringing back the White Mantle might be a sizable retcon, but at least it didn't ruin 5+ years of buildup over two expansions and a base game.

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    The White Mantle aren't back in any real force though. It's just cultists and fanatics at this point.

    Guild Wars 1 had Abbadon as the big bad guy behind mostly everything, but at least Anet has said he's dead for good and not coming back. Which is super great. I liked Abbadon as a villain, but many games are addicted to resurrecting the most popular evil characters.

    I have never, ever in my gaming life played WOW. I don't think I missed much to be honest.

    I'm sure people like it for tons of reasons, but it just never appealed to me.

    What keeps me coming back to Guild Wars are the visuals (It still amazes me how good GW1's designs were), no subscription, and an attachment to the world of Tyria.

    And that's the fun thing too, I took like... a two year break from Guild Wars and was able to come back and catch up on new content without paying a penny. Like having a good brand of coffee after not having it for a few years.

    manwiththemachinegun on
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Yeah if a game has a subscription it had better be the best and most unique of its genre

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    Focusing on MoP and not past transgressions WoW is currently in its most polished stated to date. Everything has improved via Blizz listening to its player base and implementing in what has been asked for. Want factions to matter? Boom. Want more to do at 90 and not be tied to Heroics? Boom. Want Pandaren? HOOOYAAAA. etc etc. It is too much to list out here.

    I loved GW2 but if I were one to be pissed off at games for stupid transgressions I would be just as pissed off at ANet for how they like to kill off sub characters left and right, how they igore PVE and how the game doesnt scale well at all (oh god the Orr zones suck). But I still play the game because actually playing the classes is fun and the world is beautiful. But the same could be said for WoW as well.

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    I liked Abbadon as a villain, but many games are addicted to resurrecting the most popular evil characters.

    Nah, Arenanet like resurrecting unpopular bad guys. Gate of Madness was a hoot.

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Well, to be fair those were ghosts. They didn't come back in the "real" world.

    Yeah yeah, splitting hairs.

  • CondimentsCondiments Registered User regular
    It really comes down to what you want in the aforementioned games, PvE or PvP? For me, I burned out on the gear treadmill concept during vanilla and TBC WoW. Having to maintain an online schedule to collect virtual goods with friends is fun, but the personal/time/monetary investment is not worth it for me compared regular gaming. I came back in Wrath, and Cataclysm to indulge in the PvP and other side offerings the game had besides bashing my head against its monolithic dungeon/raiding/modes/gear score/wtfbbqlolwut/etc, and that was fun for a while. It just takes a month before the daily, event, battleground grind really gets to you. I usually reach a goal like getting a reputation mount before realizing its finally not fun anymore.

    WoW certainly isn't a bad game by any stretch of the imagination, it kept my interest for years, and I love the responsiveness of the combat system besides how ridiculous the skill bloat has gotten. I've just given up on the game because no matter how it tries to cater to multiple groups through PvE, reputation, etc. WoW remains a "Raiders" game. GW2 certainly doesn't have perfect balance, but WoW's PvP has never really reached that "sweet spot". Supremely optimal specs(classes have a prescribed PvP tree) and compositions stifled a lot of creativity, power creep and reactionary nerfs ensured a host of balance problems, and it was uphill battle for players to reach competitive level. I ASSUME the methodology behind having PvPers get curb stomped upon cap entry was to appease the "Y U GIV WELFUR EPIX!?!?" crowd, thus forcing players to hone their skills in situations where they're faced more experienced AND better equipped players smashing their face for days/weeks.

    Player: "Why the hell I am getting steamrolled by these dudes? How can I player better and win?"
    Blizzard: "Gotta clock in those hours bro. When your gear is spiky enough with poorly animated fire pouring from your ass(art team mad props yo), then we'll talk. Oh wait, arena gear....good luck with that!"

    Perhaps this sounds too bitter, but playing games with different business models has had WoW's collective exploitation weigh down on me over the years. Thinking about quest grinding, and going through that shit again actually makes me slightly nauseous. WoW's a great game, but there ain't a chance in hell I'd play it again.

  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    I have never, ever in my gaming life played WOW. I don't think I missed much to be honest.
    How would you know, you never played it. ;)
    I don't think I'll ever go back to it, but I'm glad I got to experience both vanilla and Cata WoW, if nothing else it's a measuring stick to hold against other games, you can see where they do well, where they're lagging and what's changing. It's like watching an influential film, even if you end up disliking it it helps you understand the influence it had on the genre that followed.

    For me, both vanilla WoW and GW2 had/have the same end game issues (and by end game I mean high level PVE, not dungeons/raiding), they sent/send you into gloomy, boring zones filled with undead and expect you to find them exciting. Thanks to the media we've not found undead scary for decades now, not sure why game designers still think we do. And if you don't at least dread the big bad then why care?

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    I feel like the Old Gods in WoW are a clean example of how Blizzard either creates bad original lore or just straight-up references stuff.

    At least Zhaitan feels somewhat original for something as played-out as dragons. After playing Rift, however, the whole "Fight evil dragons" loses punch. I feel Rift did it better.

    Hold on. An undead dragon named Satan that attacks places with pirate zombies feels original?

    ???

    What is this I don't even.
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    The Old Gods were really cool at first but have been over-used and driven into the ground at this point.

    Now apparently they are responsible for everything from every big evil ever to Thrall stubbing his toe in the morning.

    Lovecraft understood making evil scary the best. It's always something that's more hinted at than directly shown. Having a few things lying around the world that were incredibly creepy and hinted at a deeper, darker story is always scarier than "Yep, that there is Cthulhu. You'd better go ahead and kill him."

    What is this I don't even.
    Ragnar DragonfyreSeidkonaNeli
  • SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    Here's the thing story is not A.net's strong point. It never has been. They've gotten much better over the years and, trust me, it could be a lot worse.

    What GW2, and really A.net in general, does well is world building. They are really amazing at building a world with interesting lore, places, side characters, histories. This is where they shine. I don't know why it doesn't translate to the main stories but it rarely does.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
    manwiththemachinegun
  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Yeah, that I'll agree with, I love how the zones feel. I think they could do more to carry local stories across to players who don't bother mousing over every single NPC in the zone to find out if they have a line of dialogue (seriously, I'd love to be able to distinguish at a glance which NPCs can be interacted with for fluff), but the world just feels big and alive.

    Admittedly, so did WoW's, at least in vanilla. Starting in Mulgore, then hitting the Barrens, the towns slowly getting bigger until you got to Orgrimmar, then shipping off to another continent... before flying mounts, Azeroth felt huge.

    Both games feel very rewarding if exploration is a large part of the experience for you. If the main draw of getting to the next zone is to see what's there they're both fantastic for it; there's much, much more hidden stuff to find in GW2, but I felt the actual zone design wasn't quite as good. I can still picture every single 1-60 Horde zone in my head, with all of them you were progressing in a certain way. GW2 zones are more or less open, with your character level being the only guide as to where to go. You're not fighting your way toward something, you're just working your way North/South/East/West down the zone.

    Glal on
    Darkewolfe
  • SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Glal wrote: »
    Yeah, that I'll agree with, I love how the zones feel. I think they could do more to carry local stories across to players who don't bother mousing over every single NPC in the zone to find out if they have a line of dialogue (seriously, I'd love to be able to distinguish at a glance which NPCs can be interacted with for fluff), but the world just feels big and alive.

    Admittedly, so did WoW's, at least in vanilla. Starting in Mulgore, then hitting the Barrens, the towns slowly getting bigger until you got to Orgrimmar, then shipping off to another continent... before flying mounts, Azeroth felt huge.

    Both games feel very rewarding if exploration is a large part of the experience for you. If the main draw of getting to the next zone is to see what's there they're both fantastic for it; there's much, much more hidden stuff to find in GW2, but I felt the actual zone design wasn't quite as good. I can still picture every single 1-60 Horde zone in my head, with all of them you were progressing in a certain way. GW2 zones are more or less open, with your character level being the only guide as to where to go. You're not fighting your way toward something, you're just working your way North/South/East/West down the zone.

    Vanilla wow did feel pretty large, I agree. I never really felt the sense that i get in GW2 though that there were things happening. I know there are little lore things hidden in the WoW world but I could never bring myself to care about them that much.

    I just feel like A.net has done a better job at making me care about the people in this world and their stories.

    Seidkona on
    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
  • EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    Glal wrote: »
    I think they could do more to carry local stories across to players who don't bother mousing over every single NPC in the zone to find out if they have a line of dialogue (seriously, I'd love to be able to distinguish at a glance which NPCs can be interacted with for fluff), but the world just feels big and alive.

    If the NPC has a unique name they most likely have text dialogue (seriously, there is a lot of dialogue out there).

    ibpFhR6PdsPw80.png
    Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Glal wrote: »
    Yeah, that I'll agree with, I love how the zones feel. I think they could do more to carry local stories across to players who don't bother mousing over every single NPC in the zone to find out if they have a line of dialogue (seriously, I'd love to be able to distinguish at a glance which NPCs can be interacted with for fluff), but the world just feels big and alive.

    Admittedly, so did WoW's, at least in vanilla. Starting in Mulgore, then hitting the Barrens, the towns slowly getting bigger until you got to Orgrimmar, then shipping off to another continent... before flying mounts, Azeroth felt huge.

    Both games feel very rewarding if exploration is a large part of the experience for you. If the main draw of getting to the next zone is to see what's there they're both fantastic for it; there's much, much more hidden stuff to find in GW2, but I felt the actual zone design wasn't quite as good. I can still picture every single 1-60 Horde zone in my head, with all of them you were progressing in a certain way. GW2 zones are more or less open, with your character level being the only guide as to where to go. You're not fighting your way toward something, you're just working your way North/South/East/West down the zone.

    That's one of the big things with the game's setup making delivering a narrative hard in the open-world.

    The events can pull it off somewhat (some better then others) but the renown hearts are just kinda there.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    The Old Gods were really cool at first but have been over-used and driven into the ground at this point.

    Now apparently they are responsible for everything from every big evil ever to Thrall stubbing his toe in the morning.

    Lovecraft understood making evil scary the best. It's always something that's more hinted at than directly shown. Having a few things lying around the world that were incredibly creepy and hinted at a deeper, darker story is always scarier than "Yep, that there is Cthulhu. You'd better go ahead and kill him."

    The hints at things in Vanilla worked well and it was always fun to put the pieces together and realise what drove Deathwing nuts. I thought the stuff in Northrend was done well with the hints that deep underground was something horrible, but it wasn't really a huge focus till Ulduar hit.

    But now it seems the fuckers are everywhere and it's just played out.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    I feel like the Old Gods in WoW are a clean example of how Blizzard either creates bad original lore or just straight-up references stuff.

    At least Zhaitan feels somewhat original for something as played-out as dragons. After playing Rift, however, the whole "Fight evil dragons" loses punch. I feel Rift did it better.

    Hold on. An undead dragon named Satan that attacks places with pirate zombies feels original?

    ???

    He's made from hundreds of undead dragons, yeah he feels fresh enough for a dragon

    gw2-zhaitan-the-undead-dragon.jpg

    Sure you break up each of the individual parts of Zhaitan and none of it is original, but it's about as original as you can make a dragon since simpsons did everything already

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    That's not an accurate picture of the battle though.

    This is:

    GuildWars2truth.jpg

    manwiththemachinegun on
    Ragnar Dragonfyreoverride367KreutzGlal
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    It is a true shame the zhaitan fight sucks, but I have a feeling it will see improvement

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    I feel like the Old Gods in WoW are a clean example of how Blizzard either creates bad original lore or just straight-up references stuff.

    At least Zhaitan feels somewhat original for something as played-out as dragons. After playing Rift, however, the whole "Fight evil dragons" loses punch. I feel Rift did it better.
    Hold on. An undead dragon named Satan that attacks places with pirate zombies feels original?

    ???
    It's far better than the Lovecraft Old Ones that have a few letters in their name switched up. I didn't say it was SUPER ORIGINAL.

    YL9WnCY.png
  • QuetzatcoatlQuetzatcoatl Registered User regular
    What I appreciate the most in Guild Wars 2 is getting rid of the gear threadmill. I raided pretty hardcore in WoW during vanilla and bc and got to experience all the end game content, and I could actually pvp. WoW was great when you had gear because you could farm, you could pvp and you could raid, but it took a huge commitment to keep up with gear. Later on I tried getting back into the game during LK and it was just too much of a struggle to catch up and keep up. I spend way more time trying to get to the level where I could enjoy pvp than I ever did actually playing pvp. I would get a few pieces of the old pvp set before a new one started. Heroics where fun but eventually I just couldn't keep up with the gear grind and it was a struggle to just get some tier pieces before everyone else had moved past me.

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    I'm not finished with the story yet, but already I feel the threat of Zhaitan far more than the Lich of Guild Wars. Who was literally introduced... one mission before the last and was all "lol you've been helping me the whole time." It was terrible. I love Prophecies in spite of itself, but the story is a ridiculous mashup of factions with no clear threat. And nothing you accomplish in the campaign matters except protecting the survivors of Rin and establishing the Ascalon settlement! You don't defeat the White Mantle, the Muursat are still around, the Titans are locked away but not gone, and the Charr continue to pillage your homeland.

    From what I've heard, the actual fight with him is not impressive. However, the build up to fighting him,
    the loss and recapture of Claw Island, the invasion of Orr, blasting through his champions with the sky battleships
    is amazing.

    Guild Wars didn't really hit its full potential until Nightfall, and GW2 is already off to a much better start story wise, Treaherne and Zhaitan complaining aside. Zhaitan could easily be the weakest of the Elder Dragons in combat. He comes across as a puppeteer with an immense force, but doesn't take direct involvement if he can avoid it.

  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    All you need to do to see the eventual scale of the dragon fights is to go to the Main Lodge in the Norn city.

    And look at the TOOTH of Jormag.

    Its going to be fucknuts.

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Also Primordus is massive, but maybe only about six times the size of a lieutenant dragon. I can easily see him being fought by a massive army.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EYLm7SrDtEo/TPbyRpERB1I/AAAAAAAAEm0/WP3s-4Qppsk/s1600/dragonprimordus.jpg

    manwiththemachinegun on
  • EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    Well, difficult to talk about scale from GW1 because of the engine. As shown there he is smaller than a GW2 lieutenant dragon.

    Suffice to say that they are massive though. Jormag's tooth can be seen, as Transporter said, and Kralkatorrik was mistaken for a range of oddly-shaped hills until he woke up.

    ibpFhR6PdsPw80.png
    Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Enig wrote: »
    Kralkatorrik was mistaken for a range of oddly-shaped hills until he woke up.

    Engine limitations really hurt GW 1. This is Kralkatorriks back in game.
    Guild-Wars-2-Kralkatorrik.jpg

    This was the concept art.
    7639059196_239f049b03_z.jpg

    Suffice it to say, Kralkatorrik is far, far larger than Zhaitan.

  • MeisterMeister Registered User regular
    That's not an accurate picture of the battle though.

    This is:

    GuildWars2truth.jpg

    He felt much smaller in the real fight to me. Compare that picture to this (spoiler):
    Zhaitan1.jpg

    In-game he barely seems bigger than the other non-Elder dragons.

    3DS friend code friend code: 4485-1155-2584
  • NeliNeli Registered User regular
    Concept art and stories tend to usually be bigger and bolder while the stuff we get in games, especially MMO's tend to be more suited for gameplay and stuff. So often it's smaller

    Blizzard tried to make a dragon so large that you could walk around on it with the Deathwing fight but it still wasn't very impressive

    vhgb4m.jpg
    I have stared into Satan's asshole, and it fucking winked at me.
    [/size]
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