From someone who speaks Portuguese as his main language, I can certainly tell you that most games that get translated to portuguese adopt the brazilian grammar and not the continental portuguese one. In fact, it is very rare to get a game translated into continental Portuguese, only the really big AAA games get that treatment, especially if we are talking about voice acting (let's say 1-2 games a year, tops).
Also, what if we aren't publishers, but would want to support other country's game developers? You guys should perhaps look into doing something about that? Perhaps a website dedicated to letting people know about developers around the world and what they need to thrive? :P
Fantastic guys... I'm brazilian and your knowledge of our conditions really amazed me.
You're spot on mostly; but you should have given a little more attention as to WHY prices are so high down here. We have a 60% import tax on all electronic imports. This was instituted in the '80s to "protect the developing national industry", which is completely stupid, as there was no developing industry for electronics at the time and the situation has obviously just gotten worse with the difficulty of access to new technologies said tax imposed.
Furthermore, I believe it still isn't exactly viable to develop a game that's focused on selling in Brazil specifically. The logic is rather simple: With the USA and Europe accounting for 80% (more?) of the consumers of electronic entertainment, trying to develop a product focused on the brazilian market means your income potential gets drastically reduced.
We are developing a mobile game right now and we've never even considered Brazil, not even once, when doing it. It just doesn't make sense for an indie developer to _care_; when Brazil represents perhaps 5% of the potential market share of your product even brazilian developers are FORCED to produce things that will appease costumers overseas first, or risk just tanking in the incipient brazilian market, and here's why:
As you very well know, the production of video games hinges mostly on human resources. Perhaps 80 to 90% of the expediture for a small developer goes to paying salaries. And, this is something you also should have said, hiring people in Brazil is EXPENSIVE. We have one the most anachronic labor laws in the planet; to simplify it a bit, we have to pay about 80% of every employee's salary over to the govt.. Yup, you read that right: An average employee costs a company down here almost TWICE as much as he gets in the end of the month.
Now, the absurd cost of labor here can be offset: IF, and only if, you sell your products in dollars, or euros. You see, after conversion rates, dollars are worth twice as much as Reais, so selling your product overseas is probably the only way to stay competitive in the industry; that's the main reason why I think developing games to appease our national audience just isn't going to fly for a very long time.
Bottom line, I don't blame big publishers for not wanting to land down here. The sticky and confusing web of brazilian law and taxes are scary even to ME, I can only imagine how ridiculous and stupid it sounds to people from more advanced democracies.
Lastly, kudos to this initiative. The idea of incentivizing the multi-cultural aspect of our industry is a noble one, no matter how tall the hurdles to be overcome! As always you guys show your commitment to the betterment of our craft like no one else!
Fantastic guys... I'm brazilian and your knowledge of our conditions really amazed me.
You're spot on mostly; but you should have given a little more attention as to WHY prices are so high down here. We have a 60% import tax on all electronic imports. This was instituted in the '80s to "protect the developing national industry", which is completely stupid, as there was no developing industry for electronics at the time and the situation has obviously just gotten worse with the difficulty of access to new technologies said tax imposed.
Furthermore, I believe it still isn't exactly viable to develop a game that's focused on selling in Brazil specifically. The logic is rather simple: With the USA and Europe accounting for 80% (more?) of the consumers of electronic entertainment, trying to develop a product focused on the brazilian market means your income potential gets drastically reduced.
We are developing a mobile game right now and we've never even considered Brazil, not even once, when doing it. It just doesn't make sense for an indie developer to _care_; when Brazil represents perhaps 5% of the potential market share of your product even brazilian developers are FORCED to produce things that will appease costumers overseas first, or risk just tanking in the incipient brazilian market, and here's why:
As you very well know, the production of video games hinges mostly on human resources. Perhaps 80 to 90% of the expediture for a small developer goes to paying salaries. And, this is something you also should have said, hiring people in Brazil is EXPENSIVE. We have one the most anachronic labor laws in the planet; to simplify it a bit, we have to pay about 80% of every employee's salary over to the govt.. Yup, you read that right: An average employee costs a company down here almost TWICE as much as he gets in the end of the month.
Now, the absurd cost of labor here can be offset: IF, and only if, you sell your products in dollars, or euros. You see, after conversion rates, dollars are worth twice as much as Reais, so selling your product overseas is probably the only way to stay competitive in the industry; that's the main reason why I think developing games to appease our national audience just isn't going to fly for a very long time.
Bottom line, I don't blame big publishers for not wanting to land down here. The sticky and confusing web of brazilian law and taxes are scary even to ME, I can only imagine how ridiculous and stupid it sounds to people from more advanced democracies.
Lastly, kudos to this initiative. The idea of incentivizing the multi-cultural aspect of our industry is a noble one, no matter how tall the hurdles to be overcome! As always you guys show your commitment to the betterment of our craft like no one else!
I am a Brazilian game designer, and I loved this post, really undestanding the Brasilian market. We have some very good indie companies here, something around 100 companies, is too little to a country with this size, but with a good investment, some big companies can have such a great team here for a low price.
As a brazilian game developer myself, I have to raise a few points:
- price/taxes is just a small part of the problem. Main issue: distribution.
It's easier to find someone selling pirate copies than originals, and until *that* changes, no price reduction will help. If people can buy pirate versions for $2.50 (not $5!) why would they go looking for a store to buy the original?
(That's where Steam, Apple and Android are gaining market here - selling digital, so the user
does not have to even leave home to buy!)
- also, another HUGE problem in Brazil is bureaucracy. Here taxes are the evil - not taxes applied on the games itself, but taxes on the workforce, bad transportation quality (it costs a lot to ship something anywhere, and Brazil is a continental scaled country) and so many regulations and taxes (that changes almost on a monthly basis) that it is insane. You can be perfectly legal in one day, and completely illegal in the next.
- Game rating not necessary anymore - any international rating is accepted.
- Steam is available in Brazil - and there are brazilian created "versions", like Nuuuvem.
- Amazon entered the brazilian market last year... but only selling books for now.
- As for programmers/artist in the game industry... we do have A LOT of them here. What we don't have is enough studios to hire them all! (The mentioned lack of funding takes huge part in this)
- My personal effort to create a game market here in Brazil (Specially for brazilian game developers): http://www.jogabrasil.com.br (something like "play Brazil") a fair with brazilian developers showing their latest releases, with conferences, lectures and even a "brazilian games history" exposition. (Again for the lack of funding, It's hard to find a location to do a second edition of this event...)
[shameless plug]
If someone here needs something brazilian portuguese translated, or maybe something developed here, please contact me: www.icongames.com.br
- that's my game development company
[/shameless plug]
PS: Extra points for mentioning "NAVE"! Kudos to you guys
As a brazilian game developer myself, I have to raise a few points:
- price/taxes is just a small part of the problem. Main issue: distribution.
It's easier to find someone selling pirate copies than originals, and until *that* changes, no price reduction will help. If people can buy pirate versions for $2.50 (not $5!) why would they go looking for a store to buy the original?
(That's where Steam, Apple and Android are gaining market here - selling digital, so the user
does not have to even leave home to buy!)
- also, another HUGE problem in Brazil is bureaucracy. Here taxes are the evil - not taxes applied on the games itself, but taxes on the workforce, bad transportation quality (it costs a lot to ship something anywhere, and Brazil is a continental scaled country) and so many regulations and taxes (that changes almost on a monthly basis) that it is insane. You can be perfectly legal in one day, and completely illegal in the next.
- Game rating not necessary anymore - any international rating is accepted.
- Steam is available in Brazil - and there are brazilian created "versions", like Nuuuvem.
- Amazon entered the brazilian market last year... but only selling books for now.
- As for programmers/artist in the game industry... we do have A LOT of them here. What we don't have is enough studios to hire them all! (The mentioned lack of funding takes huge part in this)
- My personal effort to create a game market here in Brazil (Specially for brazilian game developers): http://www.jogabrasil.com.br (something like "play Brazil") a fair with brazilian developers showing their latest releases, with conferences, lectures and even a "brazilian games history" exposition. (Again for the lack of funding, It's hard to find a location to do a second edition of this event...)
[shameless plug]
If someone here needs something brazilian portuguese translated, or maybe something developed here, please contact me: www.icongames.com.br
- that's my game development company
[/shameless plug]
PS: Extra points for mentioning "NAVE"! Kudos to you guys
Steam was available in Brazil since its inception, though until recently it did require "international" credit cards to make purchases, which did limit to some extent who could actually buy games there. Not all games were made available here, though, and Steam had a pretty small catalog early on.
Still, all of these problems are a thing of the past.
I work for Concordia Language Villages (http://www.concordialanguagevillages.org/newsite/) a NFP educational institution dedicated to helping create better global citizens through cultural and language-based learning. I sent a link to this article to our Portuguese Dean who teaches a Brazilian cultural program. She not only enjoyed the video but is working with one of her Portuguese specialists to see if there is a way they can translate it for use in their program. She was a little concerned over a couple of the images used (as the majority of the students in her program are children and the images were chosen to resonate with Internet-savvy adults, it's a question of content-appropriateness, not taste).
First, do you have a problem with CLV using your video as part of teaching (with full credit to Extra Credits, of course)? I hope not, because your video has several fantastic things to say about the growing and changing culture of Brazil.
Second, are you interested in getting a Portuguese translation of this video? I might be able to get a copy sent to me when / if it is completed.
Third, I love Extra Credits. Keep up the great work!
First comment that I make here. As a Brazilian, it was a shock to even see the title of the episode, and the shock grew as you guys gave lots of spot-on information. There are a few minor wrong details here and there, but other comments already noted them, with more information than I can provide. The biggest of them is that we have Steam, it even displays the prices in our currency. I love it. And hate it. It makes money disappear.
I have one concern, though: be careful when you make a game thinking on a Brazilian public. For the love of every thing that is good, don't make something with samba, Carnaval or soccer just because. Not every Brazilian likes that (I don't) and it looks too cliché. That comes from the problem that Brazil is way too big, there are diferences from state to state (I'm from the south of Brazil, and from the south to the north there's such big differences that we can't even see our similarities). The differences are not only economical, but also each regional culture, and, because of that, I know that I have a completely different view of things than someone from Rio de Janeiro...
And for the people commenting about Brazilians in MMO and the like... I'm sorry, we have idiots and trolls in here as much as you have in your own country. We are louder, though. That's because we already talk loudly with lots of hand gestures. Not that it's an excuse to be jerks, but... Oh, well. Just ignore them and remember that we aren't all like that. I am sorry, though, it's sad that's how a few idiots act and make the whole country look like s**t.
So, yeah. Good episode, I want to learn about other countries now. ;3
PS: the thing I thank the most about games is that I learned English trough them. It's not perfect, but I'm happy.
As one of the resident Brazilians in the PA Forums, I welcome this video
I also worked on game localization, for one of the biggest fishes in PC games worldwide, and AFAIK Sony is the only company consistently doing PT-PT work instead of PT-BR, mostly because SCEE is in charge of localization as a whole.
Also, the video failed to mention another strong point; people here are freaking nuts about gaming, and the crazy pirate market grew out of that fanaticism. Of course, soccer games are particularly popular, but Brazilians really love multiplayer, especially fighting and FPS. I've been seeing a few people with COD BLOPSII tshirts on the street lately, which is pretty cool. MMOs and DOTA are also very beloved here, as HUEHUEHUE BR jokes can prove. Brazilians are becoming the star of Facebook numbers, and any sort of social gaming is embraced with a passion over here.
On the corporate side, Blizzard and Riot are doing a stellar job approaching the Brazilian gamers, especially because they can simply ignore most of the challenges: piracy is a much smaller issue for them (even if there are private servers and crap like that), and physical distribution is not very relevant (although they're both making an effort in putting the games and gamecards on general retail stores like Saraiva). Both companies also did amazing localizations (cough, cough, modesty aside), and have dedicated, well trained people doing Customer Support and Community Management.
Microsoft is also making a huge push with the brazilian-made Xbox 360, with much more affordable prices, and they're reaping the benefits. Now you can find legit games for sale at most big retailers like Lojas Americanas, and people are buying those! Piracy didn't go away, but it's a lot less compelling right now. Sony is working on it too, with less energy, and Nintendo promises a lot, but still didn't deliver much. The Playstation 3 still does very well, but I'd guess that's due to the national love for the previous two machines. "Preisteixon" is almost a holy word around here.
But I'd bet that the PC and iOS/Android are the true future for Brazilian gaming market. Thanks to DD, aggressive pricing and the desperate way we buy the most expensive smartphones in the world without thinking twice.
Finally, the crux of the matter: Our local production is small or inexistent, outside a few heroic efforts like Dungeonland (on Steam and other platforms) and mobile. We NEED more developers and publishers! NOW!
anyways, thanks for the great, considerate videos, and the gorgeous pictures of my hometown!
Many of points in the video are true, if a little dated. Many of these issues have been reduced but all in all are still around. Something else worth mentioning is that although we have a large pool of both programmers and artists we do lack the financial support to hire creative personnel. Usually you will have quest design tied in with programming and such, in order to minimize costs. Our GD companies are pretty small, usually Indie level or lower, making it hard to have a high-revenue operation going.
I spent a lot of time and money to be able to graduate in GD in Canada, only to come back to a country that was not yet ready to offer me a job. Hopefully the next generation wont have to suffer the same problem since we do have the potential, it just needs to be explored more thoroughly.
I'm from Brazil, and I must say, job well done. I want to clarify some of the points made on this video.
The game market in Brazil was strictly small and focused on PC hobbists up until the late 80s, when the NES and Sega Master System became popular. Piracy was non existant due to the yet relatively small market and difficulty in producing game cartdriges (reverse engineering unlicesed NES clones WERE very common, though). In the late 80s and early 90s the market rose incredibly, and two major companies were formed to represent both Sega and Nintendo. A local electronic games company called TecToy licensed Sega (mostly Genesis and 32x, the licensee was concluded by the time the Saturn came around, I believe). Playtronic was a joint venture between Gradiente (produced audio systems and TVs) and Estrela (a toy company that, at the time, licensed Mattel products) - Playtronic represented Nintendo from the SNES era to the first year of the Gamecube era (licensed ended in around 2002). Ads for both companies were ran by TecToy/SEGA and Playtronic/Nintendo as often as you see in the US market today. TecToy even produced a few games themselves, often adapting existing games (legally, with permission) and changing existing characters to popular local ones. I do believe they got to produce a couple of original games for the Genesis as well.
Piracy became commonplace with the success of Playstation in the mid-late 90s. CD based games could be easily copied, and the Sony platform, albeit imported (Sony never sold directly in Brazil), became the major console for the good part of a decade. Nintendo was second, and still very popular.
At the same time, PC gaming was also popular, specially after early 1990, when the government allowed inetrnational companies to sell imported PC parts around here (that's right, up until 1989 all computer parts HAD to be produced locally - this meant we did not have code bar readers until the early 90s). Localized games were produced by a local PC company called Brasoft who licensed several companies such as EA and Lucasarts (adventure games such as The Dig and Grim Fandango were completely translated).
Well, in the early 2000s game rentals, which were very common and popular, began to close down. Piracy was rapant and the Playstation dominated the market.
Little by little, though, this started to change. Piracy is starting to be frowned upon some consumers and prices diminished a little. Taxes are still high (for every dollar spent on a game, 2 dollars go to taxes, and HALF our salaries every year go to a corrupt left wing government in form of general taxes on income, products, cars, etc). Initiatives such as Steam made purchases possible (these sales are legally UNTAXED, although the government took notice of it just recently and is studying ways to tax these).
The most successful game company to be represented here in Brazil recently is Blizzard. Starcraft, World of Warcraft and Diablo sales are very high, games are sold at a resonable price (around 40 dollars for a full license). and are fully localized (dialogue, text, everything in local portuguese).
Microsoft has a huge representation here in Brazil due to laor outsourcing and windows sales, and does produce Xbox 360 locally (along with support to Xbox Live), but prices are high and piracy is commonplace for Xbox. Playstation 3 never lived up to the success of its predecessors, but has some fans. The portable market is shared among Nintendo and Sony, and it's very common to see a 3DS or a PSP (Vita, not so much) around. People arrange meetings on gaming forums to play multiplayer battles (I bought a DS in 2004 due to these meetings).
Well, that's the whole thing in a nutshell. I don't see much of a market here in Brazil for locally produced games, though, but I do see a remote chance of outsourcing development - we're overcoming India as a major country for IT development outsourcing for services, software... but not games, as of yet. The only thing I majorly disagree is regarding the educational levels of the public universities. While the private ones are among the worse in the WORLD, th pubilc ones are often mismanaged and not so good. Education in Brazil is absolutely awful, and tends to get worse.
I'm from Brazil, and I must say, job well done. I want to clarify some of the points made on this video.
The game market in Brazil was strictly small and focused on PC hobbists up until the late 80s, when the NES and Sega Master System became popular. Piracy was non existant due to the yet relatively small market and difficulty in producing game cartdriges (reverse engineering unlicesed NES clones WERE very common, though). In the late 80s and early 90s the market rose incredibly, and two major companies were formed to represent both Sega and Nintendo. A local electronic games company called TecToy licensed Sega (mostly Genesis and 32x, the licensee was concluded by the time the Saturn came around, I believe). Playtronic was a joint venture between Gradiente (produced audio systems and TVs) and Estrela (a toy company that, at the time, licensed Mattel products) - Playtronic represented Nintendo from the SNES era to the first year of the Gamecube era (licensed ended in around 2002). Ads for both companies were ran by TecToy/SEGA and Playtronic/Nintendo as often as you see in the US market today. TecToy even produced a few games themselves, often adapting existing games (legally, with permission) and changing existing characters to popular local ones. I do believe they got to produce a couple of original games for the Genesis as well.
Piracy became commonplace with the success of Playstation in the mid-late 90s. CD based games could be easily copied, and the Sony platform, albeit imported (Sony never sold directly in Brazil), became the major console for the good part of a decade. Nintendo was second, and still very popular.
At the same time, PC gaming was also popular, specially after early 1990, when the government allowed inetrnational companies to sell imported PC parts around here (that's right, up until 1989 all computer parts HAD to be produced locally - this meant we did not have code bar readers until the early 90s). Localized games were produced by a local PC company called Brasoft who licensed several companies such as EA and Lucasarts (adventure games such as The Dig and Grim Fandango were completely translated).
Well, in the early 2000s game rentals, which were very common and popular, began to close down. Piracy was rapant and the Playstation dominated the market.
Little by little, though, this started to change. Piracy is starting to be frowned upon some consumers and prices diminished a little. Taxes are still high (for every dollar spent on a game, 2 dollars go to taxes, and HALF our salaries every year go to a corrupt left wing government in form of general taxes on income, products, cars, etc). Initiatives such as Steam made purchases possible (these sales are legally UNTAXED, although the government took notice of it just recently and is studying ways to tax these).
The most successful game company to be represented here in Brazil recently is Blizzard. Starcraft, World of Warcraft and Diablo sales are very high, games are sold at a resonable price (around 40 dollars for a full license). and are fully localized (dialogue, text, everything in local portuguese).
Microsoft has a huge representation here in Brazil due to laor outsourcing and windows sales, and does produce Xbox 360 locally (along with support to Xbox Live), but prices are high and piracy is commonplace for Xbox. Playstation 3 never lived up to the success of its predecessors, but has some fans. The portable market is shared among Nintendo and Sony, and it's very common to see a 3DS or a PSP (Vita, not so much) around. People arrange meetings on gaming forums to play multiplayer battles (I bought a DS in 2004 due to these meetings).
Well, that's the whole thing in a nutshell. I don't see much of a market here in Brazil for locally produced games, though, but I do see a remote chance of outsourcing development - we're overcoming India as a major country for IT development outsourcing for services, software... but not games, as of yet. The only thing I majorly disagree is regarding the educational levels of the public universities. While the private ones are among the worse in the WORLD, th pubilc ones are often mismanaged and not so good. Education in Brazil is absolutely awful, and tends to get worse.
This was a fantastic episode, and I hope to see more of them like it in the future. An exploration of the benefits other cultures and regions might bring to the artistic conversation of gaming is worthwhile, and can greatly impact the reception of gaming as an artistic venue in future years.
Fantastic episode, that's really Extra Credits at its best, i also hope to see some of the middle eastern countries here .. i'm Egyptian and while the gaming market here has improved significantly in the past few years with the advent of the PS3/Xbox360 and many retailers now sell original games at reasonable prices i don't see enough signs of having a gaming industry yet for some reason (there are small companies making mobile games and apps but that's it for now, there are talented artists and programmers here in Egypt but it seems something is missing, hope you can look into that XD)
Maybe Emirates has a better chance of being the first Middle-Eastern country to have gaming industry because it has the funds, the interested gamers, the international connections and it's becoming more and more like a Babel Tower with people from many nationalities converging there, there is even a Dubai World Game Expo happening in Emirates (i think first time an internationally recognized gaming expo happened in a middle-eastern country).
Another thing i'm happy about is that games like the latest Need for Speed:Most Wanted had Arabic subtitles and dub, i heard Tomb Raider is going to get a similar treatment .. as an Arabic gamers i'm happy to see such recognition of the Arabic gaming market (even if most of the time i prefer to play games in English with their original language voices).
Just a subtle point but one that affects me quite personally is the use of "England" to describe the UK. I know its easy to make a mistake like that and would normally let it slide but I have a lot of respect for the EC team and the well researched quality of their episodes so to have such a slip in this episode was a little disappointing. Rockstar North for example is based in Edinburgh after all.
Finally, the crux of the matter: Our local production is small or inexistent, outside a few heroic efforts like Dungeonland (on Steam and other platforms) and mobile. We NEED more developers and publishers! NOW!
There are a lot of development studios - last time I checked more than 150, and growing. Just because most of them are not known doesn't mean they don't exist - they just release games with american or european publishers (sometimes even without the possibility to say they developed the game!) and people never know games were made in Brazil.
Piracy became commonplace with the success of Playstation in the mid-late 90s.
Actually we had piracy since the 80's. MSX was a huge popular system, and brazilian made games like "Amazônia", "A Lenda da Gávea" and others were pirated. We had "legal" stores (even on shopping centers) selling pirated disks, tapes and carts. Legend even says that "MSX Expert" developed and sold by "Gradiente" was an unlicensed copy of the japanese computer.
But yeah, things have improved a lot lately - and should get better in the coming years.
Also, if you scroll down you might notice many double posts by brazilians, I am very sure those were because they thought the post wasn't uploaded because of an internet connection problem, seeing as fast, stable internet here is still also very expensive...
...with that in mind: Developers, seriously, always online DRM? NOT a good choice if you want to sell here (even with me having a good stable internet I still avoid always online games like a vampire avoids the sunlight, I think the bad internet I used to have might have traumatized me).
If the next generation consoles start having that like some hoaxes say, as well as "no used games", I'm sure NO ONE HERE WILL BUY THEM. They are already going to cost around 2000 dollars, with 200 dollar games, that would be just stupid of their part to make it even worse.
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Anomaly187Professional AssholeHellRegistered Usernew member
Anytime I hear someone say video games and Brazil in the same sentence I get a bad taste in my mouth. I play League of Legends and for years had to deal with Brazilian players. Not only did most outright suck and were in complete denial of that fact, but many were just stupid braying cocksuckers yelling "Mordekaiser es numero uno! HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE." in all chat. If that's what we get to look forward to from games coming out of Brazil, you can keep it. Fuck Brazil and everyone from there.
Great episode, finally we have been heard. Being a gamer in Brazil requires lot of strength. And although all efforts to downsize the taxes, the government still keeps it because, like you guys said, there's no economic reason to facilitate the game industry to become stronger. Penny Arcade, you're awesome and you do a lot more than just entertainment, you guys do a awesome cultural work, making ignorant people less ignorant (I hope so) and long-way spectators to highly-dedicated fans.
Wow you guys are sure showing some hard naivete on this one. Repealing taxes is never easy. Also I do not think the market for any game other then cheap phone apps will sell. $5 dollars vs. $60? not much of a contest is it?
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ShaostoulIndie Game Dev for Project Sand SlagWashington, USA (Not DC)Registered Usernew member
The game I'm actually working on developing (At the moment called Sand Slag) is actually looking for inspiration and people from everywhere to provide content for the game. A lot of the ground work is set, but it's open to a whole lot of content thanks to the engine (Unity) and the openness to public opinion on various aspects of development. It'll feature a core game, but not limited to the core game.
I've also been looking at various methods of providing the game and while Steam and all those other avenues are wonderful, how do you think a game provided free of charge through torrents do?
It's very much a game by the people for the people in a sense. At least, I like to think of it that way.
I'd provide more detail, but I'm still "new" to the indie game dev side of things, and I want to protect my product to some degree.
If you find yourself interested in helping or have any comments on it (especially the whole torrent thing), feel free to shoot me an email at shaostoul@yahoo.com
Excellent episode and Extra Credits have always surprised me.
As a 30 years old Brazilian player, I have seen everything and have struggled to keep playing games. Nowadays things are much easier indeed, as the consciousness of the Brazilian towards games are changing.
The online games and network are sure part of the process, but we are understanding the work and art behind it. Te prices are better and the access easier. however, a new market emerged. We can now find ORIGINAL games in small stores or even stands selling games imported straight from US or Europe, and the price is better than FNAC, SUBMARINO or any official retailer.
The ability to buy games online through STEAM, LIVE or PSN also made thing much easier. The market here is sure HUGE and at the right price MILLIONS of Brazilians are willing to pay for their games.
Very good episode. The market here is really promising, we just want to pay the right price for everything.
We are so crazy for video games that I know many friends, me included that can even skip work for a new game or even to watch E3.
The new market that we have seen emerging, was small stores or stands selling original games imported from US or Europe for a price much better than official means.
STEM, LIVE and PSN made everything easier for us too.
Excellent point that games are cultural, and each part of the world can contribute for new and awesome ideas.
Excellent episode and Extra Credits have always surprised me.
As a 30 years old Brazilian player, I have seen everything and have struggled to keep playing games. Nowadays things are much easier indeed, as the consciousness of the Brazilian towards games are changing.
The online games and network are sure part of the process, but we are understanding the work and art behind it. Te prices are better and the access easier. however, a new market emerged. We can now find ORIGINAL games in small stores or even stands selling games imported straight from US or Europe, and the price is better than FNAC, SUBMARINO or any official retailer.
The ability to buy games online through STEAM, LIVE or PSN also made thing much easier. The market here is sure HUGE and at the right price MILLIONS of Brazilians are willing to pay for their games.
Very good episode. The market here is really promising, we just want to pay the right price for everything.
We are so crazy for video games that I know many friends, me included that can even skip work for a new game or even to watch E3.
The new market that we have seen emerging, was small stores or stands selling original games imported from US or Europe for a price much better than official means.
STEM, LIVE and PSN made everything easier for us too.
Excellent point that games are cultural, and each part of the world can contribute for new and awesome ideas.
Wow! I'm honored by Brazil being the first country of the series, make us feel somehow relevant to the games course.
Anyway, you guys did an excellent job. Most brazilian game developers wannabe wouldn't explain our situation better.
Posts
Also, inc India Episode of this I take it?
Also, what if we aren't publishers, but would want to support other country's game developers? You guys should perhaps look into doing something about that? Perhaps a website dedicated to letting people know about developers around the world and what they need to thrive? :P
You're spot on mostly; but you should have given a little more attention as to WHY prices are so high down here. We have a 60% import tax on all electronic imports. This was instituted in the '80s to "protect the developing national industry", which is completely stupid, as there was no developing industry for electronics at the time and the situation has obviously just gotten worse with the difficulty of access to new technologies said tax imposed.
Furthermore, I believe it still isn't exactly viable to develop a game that's focused on selling in Brazil specifically. The logic is rather simple: With the USA and Europe accounting for 80% (more?) of the consumers of electronic entertainment, trying to develop a product focused on the brazilian market means your income potential gets drastically reduced.
We are developing a mobile game right now and we've never even considered Brazil, not even once, when doing it. It just doesn't make sense for an indie developer to _care_; when Brazil represents perhaps 5% of the potential market share of your product even brazilian developers are FORCED to produce things that will appease costumers overseas first, or risk just tanking in the incipient brazilian market, and here's why:
As you very well know, the production of video games hinges mostly on human resources. Perhaps 80 to 90% of the expediture for a small developer goes to paying salaries. And, this is something you also should have said, hiring people in Brazil is EXPENSIVE. We have one the most anachronic labor laws in the planet; to simplify it a bit, we have to pay about 80% of every employee's salary over to the govt.. Yup, you read that right: An average employee costs a company down here almost TWICE as much as he gets in the end of the month.
Now, the absurd cost of labor here can be offset: IF, and only if, you sell your products in dollars, or euros. You see, after conversion rates, dollars are worth twice as much as Reais, so selling your product overseas is probably the only way to stay competitive in the industry; that's the main reason why I think developing games to appease our national audience just isn't going to fly for a very long time.
Bottom line, I don't blame big publishers for not wanting to land down here. The sticky and confusing web of brazilian law and taxes are scary even to ME, I can only imagine how ridiculous and stupid it sounds to people from more advanced democracies.
Lastly, kudos to this initiative. The idea of incentivizing the multi-cultural aspect of our industry is a noble one, no matter how tall the hurdles to be overcome! As always you guys show your commitment to the betterment of our craft like no one else!
Keep up the good work!
- Lucas
twistedkey.com
You're spot on mostly; but you should have given a little more attention as to WHY prices are so high down here. We have a 60% import tax on all electronic imports. This was instituted in the '80s to "protect the developing national industry", which is completely stupid, as there was no developing industry for electronics at the time and the situation has obviously just gotten worse with the difficulty of access to new technologies said tax imposed.
Furthermore, I believe it still isn't exactly viable to develop a game that's focused on selling in Brazil specifically. The logic is rather simple: With the USA and Europe accounting for 80% (more?) of the consumers of electronic entertainment, trying to develop a product focused on the brazilian market means your income potential gets drastically reduced.
We are developing a mobile game right now and we've never even considered Brazil, not even once, when doing it. It just doesn't make sense for an indie developer to _care_; when Brazil represents perhaps 5% of the potential market share of your product even brazilian developers are FORCED to produce things that will appease costumers overseas first, or risk just tanking in the incipient brazilian market, and here's why:
As you very well know, the production of video games hinges mostly on human resources. Perhaps 80 to 90% of the expediture for a small developer goes to paying salaries. And, this is something you also should have said, hiring people in Brazil is EXPENSIVE. We have one the most anachronic labor laws in the planet; to simplify it a bit, we have to pay about 80% of every employee's salary over to the govt.. Yup, you read that right: An average employee costs a company down here almost TWICE as much as he gets in the end of the month.
Now, the absurd cost of labor here can be offset: IF, and only if, you sell your products in dollars, or euros. You see, after conversion rates, dollars are worth twice as much as Reais, so selling your product overseas is probably the only way to stay competitive in the industry; that's the main reason why I think developing games to appease our national audience just isn't going to fly for a very long time.
Bottom line, I don't blame big publishers for not wanting to land down here. The sticky and confusing web of brazilian law and taxes are scary even to ME, I can only imagine how ridiculous and stupid it sounds to people from more advanced democracies.
Lastly, kudos to this initiative. The idea of incentivizing the multi-cultural aspect of our industry is a noble one, no matter how tall the hurdles to be overcome! As always you guys show your commitment to the betterment of our craft like no one else!
Keep up the good work!
- Lucas
twistedkey.com
- price/taxes is just a small part of the problem. Main issue: distribution.
It's easier to find someone selling pirate copies than originals, and until *that* changes, no price reduction will help. If people can buy pirate versions for $2.50 (not $5!) why would they go looking for a store to buy the original?
(That's where Steam, Apple and Android are gaining market here - selling digital, so the user
does not have to even leave home to buy!)
- also, another HUGE problem in Brazil is bureaucracy. Here taxes are the evil - not taxes applied on the games itself, but taxes on the workforce, bad transportation quality (it costs a lot to ship something anywhere, and Brazil is a continental scaled country) and so many regulations and taxes (that changes almost on a monthly basis) that it is insane. You can be perfectly legal in one day, and completely illegal in the next.
- Game rating not necessary anymore - any international rating is accepted.
- Steam is available in Brazil - and there are brazilian created "versions", like Nuuuvem.
- Amazon entered the brazilian market last year... but only selling books for now.
- As for programmers/artist in the game industry... we do have A LOT of them here. What we don't have is enough studios to hire them all! (The mentioned lack of funding takes huge part in this)
- My personal effort to create a game market here in Brazil (Specially for brazilian game developers): http://www.jogabrasil.com.br (something like "play Brazil") a fair with brazilian developers showing their latest releases, with conferences, lectures and even a "brazilian games history" exposition. (Again for the lack of funding, It's hard to find a location to do a second edition of this event...)
[shameless plug]
If someone here needs something brazilian portuguese translated, or maybe something developed here, please contact me: www.icongames.com.br
- that's my game development company
[/shameless plug]
PS: Extra points for mentioning "NAVE"! Kudos to you guys
- price/taxes is just a small part of the problem. Main issue: distribution.
It's easier to find someone selling pirate copies than originals, and until *that* changes, no price reduction will help. If people can buy pirate versions for $2.50 (not $5!) why would they go looking for a store to buy the original?
(That's where Steam, Apple and Android are gaining market here - selling digital, so the user
does not have to even leave home to buy!)
- also, another HUGE problem in Brazil is bureaucracy. Here taxes are the evil - not taxes applied on the games itself, but taxes on the workforce, bad transportation quality (it costs a lot to ship something anywhere, and Brazil is a continental scaled country) and so many regulations and taxes (that changes almost on a monthly basis) that it is insane. You can be perfectly legal in one day, and completely illegal in the next.
- Game rating not necessary anymore - any international rating is accepted.
- Steam is available in Brazil - and there are brazilian created "versions", like Nuuuvem.
- Amazon entered the brazilian market last year... but only selling books for now.
- As for programmers/artist in the game industry... we do have A LOT of them here. What we don't have is enough studios to hire them all! (The mentioned lack of funding takes huge part in this)
- My personal effort to create a game market here in Brazil (Specially for brazilian game developers): http://www.jogabrasil.com.br (something like "play Brazil") a fair with brazilian developers showing their latest releases, with conferences, lectures and even a "brazilian games history" exposition. (Again for the lack of funding, It's hard to find a location to do a second edition of this event...)
[shameless plug]
If someone here needs something brazilian portuguese translated, or maybe something developed here, please contact me: www.icongames.com.br
- that's my game development company
[/shameless plug]
PS: Extra points for mentioning "NAVE"! Kudos to you guys
Still, all of these problems are a thing of the past.
https://soundcloud.com/crisspiegel
First, do you have a problem with CLV using your video as part of teaching (with full credit to Extra Credits, of course)? I hope not, because your video has several fantastic things to say about the growing and changing culture of Brazil.
Second, are you interested in getting a Portuguese translation of this video? I might be able to get a copy sent to me when / if it is completed.
Third, I love Extra Credits. Keep up the great work!
I have one concern, though: be careful when you make a game thinking on a Brazilian public. For the love of every thing that is good, don't make something with samba, Carnaval or soccer just because. Not every Brazilian likes that (I don't) and it looks too cliché. That comes from the problem that Brazil is way too big, there are diferences from state to state (I'm from the south of Brazil, and from the south to the north there's such big differences that we can't even see our similarities). The differences are not only economical, but also each regional culture, and, because of that, I know that I have a completely different view of things than someone from Rio de Janeiro...
And for the people commenting about Brazilians in MMO and the like... I'm sorry, we have idiots and trolls in here as much as you have in your own country. We are louder, though. That's because we already talk loudly with lots of hand gestures. Not that it's an excuse to be jerks, but... Oh, well. Just ignore them and remember that we aren't all like that. I am sorry, though, it's sad that's how a few idiots act and make the whole country look like s**t.
So, yeah. Good episode, I want to learn about other countries now. ;3
PS: the thing I thank the most about games is that I learned English trough them. It's not perfect, but I'm happy.
I also worked on game localization, for one of the biggest fishes in PC games worldwide, and AFAIK Sony is the only company consistently doing PT-PT work instead of PT-BR, mostly because SCEE is in charge of localization as a whole.
Also, the video failed to mention another strong point; people here are freaking nuts about gaming, and the crazy pirate market grew out of that fanaticism. Of course, soccer games are particularly popular, but Brazilians really love multiplayer, especially fighting and FPS. I've been seeing a few people with COD BLOPSII tshirts on the street lately, which is pretty cool. MMOs and DOTA are also very beloved here, as HUEHUEHUE BR jokes can prove. Brazilians are becoming the star of Facebook numbers, and any sort of social gaming is embraced with a passion over here.
On the corporate side, Blizzard and Riot are doing a stellar job approaching the Brazilian gamers, especially because they can simply ignore most of the challenges: piracy is a much smaller issue for them (even if there are private servers and crap like that), and physical distribution is not very relevant (although they're both making an effort in putting the games and gamecards on general retail stores like Saraiva). Both companies also did amazing localizations (cough, cough, modesty aside), and have dedicated, well trained people doing Customer Support and Community Management.
Microsoft is also making a huge push with the brazilian-made Xbox 360, with much more affordable prices, and they're reaping the benefits. Now you can find legit games for sale at most big retailers like Lojas Americanas, and people are buying those! Piracy didn't go away, but it's a lot less compelling right now. Sony is working on it too, with less energy, and Nintendo promises a lot, but still didn't deliver much. The Playstation 3 still does very well, but I'd guess that's due to the national love for the previous two machines. "Preisteixon" is almost a holy word around here.
But I'd bet that the PC and iOS/Android are the true future for Brazilian gaming market. Thanks to DD, aggressive pricing and the desperate way we buy the most expensive smartphones in the world without thinking twice.
Finally, the crux of the matter: Our local production is small or inexistent, outside a few heroic efforts like Dungeonland (on Steam and other platforms) and mobile. We NEED more developers and publishers! NOW!
anyways, thanks for the great, considerate videos, and the gorgeous pictures of my hometown!
I spent a lot of time and money to be able to graduate in GD in Canada, only to come back to a country that was not yet ready to offer me a job. Hopefully the next generation wont have to suffer the same problem since we do have the potential, it just needs to be explored more thoroughly.
Keep up the good work guys!
Best,
JB
The game market in Brazil was strictly small and focused on PC hobbists up until the late 80s, when the NES and Sega Master System became popular. Piracy was non existant due to the yet relatively small market and difficulty in producing game cartdriges (reverse engineering unlicesed NES clones WERE very common, though). In the late 80s and early 90s the market rose incredibly, and two major companies were formed to represent both Sega and Nintendo. A local electronic games company called TecToy licensed Sega (mostly Genesis and 32x, the licensee was concluded by the time the Saturn came around, I believe). Playtronic was a joint venture between Gradiente (produced audio systems and TVs) and Estrela (a toy company that, at the time, licensed Mattel products) - Playtronic represented Nintendo from the SNES era to the first year of the Gamecube era (licensed ended in around 2002). Ads for both companies were ran by TecToy/SEGA and Playtronic/Nintendo as often as you see in the US market today. TecToy even produced a few games themselves, often adapting existing games (legally, with permission) and changing existing characters to popular local ones. I do believe they got to produce a couple of original games for the Genesis as well.
Piracy became commonplace with the success of Playstation in the mid-late 90s. CD based games could be easily copied, and the Sony platform, albeit imported (Sony never sold directly in Brazil), became the major console for the good part of a decade. Nintendo was second, and still very popular.
At the same time, PC gaming was also popular, specially after early 1990, when the government allowed inetrnational companies to sell imported PC parts around here (that's right, up until 1989 all computer parts HAD to be produced locally - this meant we did not have code bar readers until the early 90s). Localized games were produced by a local PC company called Brasoft who licensed several companies such as EA and Lucasarts (adventure games such as The Dig and Grim Fandango were completely translated).
Well, in the early 2000s game rentals, which were very common and popular, began to close down. Piracy was rapant and the Playstation dominated the market.
Little by little, though, this started to change. Piracy is starting to be frowned upon some consumers and prices diminished a little. Taxes are still high (for every dollar spent on a game, 2 dollars go to taxes, and HALF our salaries every year go to a corrupt left wing government in form of general taxes on income, products, cars, etc). Initiatives such as Steam made purchases possible (these sales are legally UNTAXED, although the government took notice of it just recently and is studying ways to tax these).
The most successful game company to be represented here in Brazil recently is Blizzard. Starcraft, World of Warcraft and Diablo sales are very high, games are sold at a resonable price (around 40 dollars for a full license). and are fully localized (dialogue, text, everything in local portuguese).
Microsoft has a huge representation here in Brazil due to laor outsourcing and windows sales, and does produce Xbox 360 locally (along with support to Xbox Live), but prices are high and piracy is commonplace for Xbox. Playstation 3 never lived up to the success of its predecessors, but has some fans. The portable market is shared among Nintendo and Sony, and it's very common to see a 3DS or a PSP (Vita, not so much) around. People arrange meetings on gaming forums to play multiplayer battles (I bought a DS in 2004 due to these meetings).
Well, that's the whole thing in a nutshell. I don't see much of a market here in Brazil for locally produced games, though, but I do see a remote chance of outsourcing development - we're overcoming India as a major country for IT development outsourcing for services, software... but not games, as of yet. The only thing I majorly disagree is regarding the educational levels of the public universities. While the private ones are among the worse in the WORLD, th pubilc ones are often mismanaged and not so good. Education in Brazil is absolutely awful, and tends to get worse.
The game market in Brazil was strictly small and focused on PC hobbists up until the late 80s, when the NES and Sega Master System became popular. Piracy was non existant due to the yet relatively small market and difficulty in producing game cartdriges (reverse engineering unlicesed NES clones WERE very common, though). In the late 80s and early 90s the market rose incredibly, and two major companies were formed to represent both Sega and Nintendo. A local electronic games company called TecToy licensed Sega (mostly Genesis and 32x, the licensee was concluded by the time the Saturn came around, I believe). Playtronic was a joint venture between Gradiente (produced audio systems and TVs) and Estrela (a toy company that, at the time, licensed Mattel products) - Playtronic represented Nintendo from the SNES era to the first year of the Gamecube era (licensed ended in around 2002). Ads for both companies were ran by TecToy/SEGA and Playtronic/Nintendo as often as you see in the US market today. TecToy even produced a few games themselves, often adapting existing games (legally, with permission) and changing existing characters to popular local ones. I do believe they got to produce a couple of original games for the Genesis as well.
Piracy became commonplace with the success of Playstation in the mid-late 90s. CD based games could be easily copied, and the Sony platform, albeit imported (Sony never sold directly in Brazil), became the major console for the good part of a decade. Nintendo was second, and still very popular.
At the same time, PC gaming was also popular, specially after early 1990, when the government allowed inetrnational companies to sell imported PC parts around here (that's right, up until 1989 all computer parts HAD to be produced locally - this meant we did not have code bar readers until the early 90s). Localized games were produced by a local PC company called Brasoft who licensed several companies such as EA and Lucasarts (adventure games such as The Dig and Grim Fandango were completely translated).
Well, in the early 2000s game rentals, which were very common and popular, began to close down. Piracy was rapant and the Playstation dominated the market.
Little by little, though, this started to change. Piracy is starting to be frowned upon some consumers and prices diminished a little. Taxes are still high (for every dollar spent on a game, 2 dollars go to taxes, and HALF our salaries every year go to a corrupt left wing government in form of general taxes on income, products, cars, etc). Initiatives such as Steam made purchases possible (these sales are legally UNTAXED, although the government took notice of it just recently and is studying ways to tax these).
The most successful game company to be represented here in Brazil recently is Blizzard. Starcraft, World of Warcraft and Diablo sales are very high, games are sold at a resonable price (around 40 dollars for a full license). and are fully localized (dialogue, text, everything in local portuguese).
Microsoft has a huge representation here in Brazil due to laor outsourcing and windows sales, and does produce Xbox 360 locally (along with support to Xbox Live), but prices are high and piracy is commonplace for Xbox. Playstation 3 never lived up to the success of its predecessors, but has some fans. The portable market is shared among Nintendo and Sony, and it's very common to see a 3DS or a PSP (Vita, not so much) around. People arrange meetings on gaming forums to play multiplayer battles (I bought a DS in 2004 due to these meetings).
Well, that's the whole thing in a nutshell. I don't see much of a market here in Brazil for locally produced games, though, but I do see a remote chance of outsourcing development - we're overcoming India as a major country for IT development outsourcing for services, software... but not games, as of yet. The only thing I majorly disagree is regarding the educational levels of the public universities. While the private ones are among the worse in the WORLD, th pubilc ones are often mismanaged and not so good. Education in Brazil is absolutely awful, and tends to get worse.
This was a fantastic episode, and I hope to see more of them like it in the future. An exploration of the benefits other cultures and regions might bring to the artistic conversation of gaming is worthwhile, and can greatly impact the reception of gaming as an artistic venue in future years.
Thanks.
Maybe Emirates has a better chance of being the first Middle-Eastern country to have gaming industry because it has the funds, the interested gamers, the international connections and it's becoming more and more like a Babel Tower with people from many nationalities converging there, there is even a Dubai World Game Expo happening in Emirates (i think first time an internationally recognized gaming expo happened in a middle-eastern country).
Another thing i'm happy about is that games like the latest Need for Speed:Most Wanted had Arabic subtitles and dub, i heard Tomb Raider is going to get a similar treatment .. as an Arabic gamers i'm happy to see such recognition of the Arabic gaming market (even if most of the time i prefer to play games in English with their original language voices).
Apart from that, keep up the good work guys.
Actually we had piracy since the 80's. MSX was a huge popular system, and brazilian made games like "Amazônia", "A Lenda da Gávea" and others were pirated. We had "legal" stores (even on shopping centers) selling pirated disks, tapes and carts. Legend even says that "MSX Expert" developed and sold by "Gradiente" was an unlicensed copy of the japanese computer.
But yeah, things have improved a lot lately - and should get better in the coming years.
...with that in mind: Developers, seriously, always online DRM? NOT a good choice if you want to sell here (even with me having a good stable internet I still avoid always online games like a vampire avoids the sunlight, I think the bad internet I used to have might have traumatized me).
If the next generation consoles start having that like some hoaxes say, as well as "no used games", I'm sure NO ONE HERE WILL BUY THEM. They are already going to cost around 2000 dollars, with 200 dollar games, that would be just stupid of their part to make it even worse.
You Rock!
I've also been looking at various methods of providing the game and while Steam and all those other avenues are wonderful, how do you think a game provided free of charge through torrents do?
It's very much a game by the people for the people in a sense. At least, I like to think of it that way.
I'd provide more detail, but I'm still "new" to the indie game dev side of things, and I want to protect my product to some degree.
If you find yourself interested in helping or have any comments on it (especially the whole torrent thing), feel free to shoot me an email at shaostoul@yahoo.com
As a 30 years old Brazilian player, I have seen everything and have struggled to keep playing games. Nowadays things are much easier indeed, as the consciousness of the Brazilian towards games are changing.
The online games and network are sure part of the process, but we are understanding the work and art behind it. Te prices are better and the access easier. however, a new market emerged. We can now find ORIGINAL games in small stores or even stands selling games imported straight from US or Europe, and the price is better than FNAC, SUBMARINO or any official retailer.
The ability to buy games online through STEAM, LIVE or PSN also made thing much easier. The market here is sure HUGE and at the right price MILLIONS of Brazilians are willing to pay for their games.
We are so crazy for video games that I know many friends, me included that can even skip work for a new game or even to watch E3.
The new market that we have seen emerging, was small stores or stands selling original games imported from US or Europe for a price much better than official means.
STEM, LIVE and PSN made everything easier for us too.
Excellent point that games are cultural, and each part of the world can contribute for new and awesome ideas.
As a 30 years old Brazilian player, I have seen everything and have struggled to keep playing games. Nowadays things are much easier indeed, as the consciousness of the Brazilian towards games are changing.
The online games and network are sure part of the process, but we are understanding the work and art behind it. Te prices are better and the access easier. however, a new market emerged. We can now find ORIGINAL games in small stores or even stands selling games imported straight from US or Europe, and the price is better than FNAC, SUBMARINO or any official retailer.
The ability to buy games online through STEAM, LIVE or PSN also made thing much easier. The market here is sure HUGE and at the right price MILLIONS of Brazilians are willing to pay for their games.
We are so crazy for video games that I know many friends, me included that can even skip work for a new game or even to watch E3.
The new market that we have seen emerging, was small stores or stands selling original games imported from US or Europe for a price much better than official means.
STEM, LIVE and PSN made everything easier for us too.
Excellent point that games are cultural, and each part of the world can contribute for new and awesome ideas.
Anyway, you guys did an excellent job. Most brazilian game developers wannabe wouldn't explain our situation better.