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The new [Nintendo] Thread: Screens, screens as far as the eye can see.

1235

Posts

  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong My lit AF posts will leave you shook Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Um, guys? The PS3 was very successful, you know. It's not like their launch strategy killed the system's long term success.

    It definitely wasn't.

    Its done well since the launch but the console has not done Sony many favors. Its been redesigned to cut costs at least twice and the fact that it's still the most expensive current generation console is just sad.

    The Vita was a disaster as well just like its predecessor too boot.

    Sony needs this to go well right off the bat or they'll be in a pretty bad position this generation.

    They're only in danger of losing the North American market, really. They still have a strong presence in Europe and they're a Japanese company in Japan.

    Donkey Kong on
    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
    Allforcea5ehren
  • UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    People who price this stuff for manufacturers put the PS4's current spec at somewhere around $400, give or take $30, plus assembly, OS development, and physical R&D.

    So it really comes down to how much Sony and MS are willing to play with pricing, eating losses, and bundling.

    Even sold at or near cost, a $400 console is putting itself well outside of the casual purchase market, and probably out of the mainstream altogether.

    For these new consoles to be successful, they need to generate sales quickly to create a large enough base to justify the cost for developing exclusive content for them.

    SteamID : same as my PA forum name
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2013
    People who price this stuff for manufacturers put the PS4's current spec at somewhere around $400, give or take $30, plus assembly, OS development, and physical R&D.

    So it really comes down to how much Sony and MS are willing to play with pricing, eating losses, and bundling.

    Even sold at or near cost, a $400 console is putting itself well outside of the casual purchase market, and probably out of the mainstream altogether.

    For these new consoles to be successful, they need to generate sales quickly to create a large enough base to justify the cost for developing exclusive content for them.

    $400 isn't remotely out of the mainstream for a console launch, as much as the "mainstream" buys these things at launch anyway. They aren't targeting casual purchasers at launch because they don't need to. That's what price drops are for.

    a5ehren on
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    People who price this stuff for manufacturers put the PS4's current spec at somewhere around $400, give or take $30, plus assembly, OS development, and physical R&D.

    So it really comes down to how much Sony and MS are willing to play with pricing, eating losses, and bundling.

    Even sold at or near cost, a $400 console is putting itself well outside of the casual purchase market, and probably out of the mainstream altogether.

    For these new consoles to be successful, they need to generate sales quickly to create a large enough base to justify the cost for developing exclusive content for them.

    console-prices-relative-2.png

    I guess the vast majority of consoles are outside the mainstream then. Including the mainstream market leaders.

    No I don't.
  • UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    When I say mainstream, I mean "things your mainstream, non-enthusiast consumer will buy".

    The importance is that if games cost $5 million to develop, you can afford to release a $400 console that a limited number of enthusiasts will buy and still have devs doing well.

    When games cost $100+ million to develop, you need a bit more accessibility in price, either at the console end or in the games prices. Do you think we'd have huge, expensive blockbuster movies like The Avengers if there were no theaters, DVDs cost $60, and players cost $400 or more?

    Ultimanecat on
    SteamID : same as my PA forum name
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    When I say mainstream, I mean "things your mainstream, non-enthusiast consumer will buy".

    So... the wii crowd? Yeah, I don't think Sony Microsoft or Nintendo are after them this Gen. They moved on to cell phones and tablets.

    No I don't.
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    When I say mainstream, I mean "things your mainstream, non-enthusiast consumer will buy".

    The importance is that if games cost $5 million to develop, you can afford to release a $400 console that a limited number of enthusiasts will buy and still have devs doing well.

    When games cost $100+ million to develop, you need a bit more accessibility in price, either at the console end or in the games prices. Do you think we'd have huge, expensive blockbuster movies like The Avengers if there were no theaters, DVDs cost $60, and players cost $400 or more?

    No one is saying the game industry isnt going to have to change, but chasing after the fickle crowd to allow publishers to move more and more toward the AAA mentality is counter to that idea of change.

    No I don't.
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist Registered User regular
    Um, guys? The PS3 was very successful, you know. It's not like their launch strategy killed the system's long term success.

    It definitely wasn't.

    Its done well since the launch but the console has not done Sony many favors. Its been redesigned to cut costs at least twice and the fact that it's still the most expensive current generation console is just sad.

    The Vita was a disaster as well just like its predecessor too boot.

    Sony needs this to go well right off the bat or they'll be in a pretty bad position this generation.

    They're only in danger of losing the North American market, really. They still have a strong presence in Europe and they're a Japanese company in Japan.

    You know, I've been thinking about this. Yes, Sony is a Japanese company, duh. but at the same time, the presentation was extremely Western focused. The lead systems designer was an American. The head of Gaikai was an american. The only Japanese people who showed up were Ono with Capcom and some token Square-enix guys. Not even the Japanese leadership of the Playstation brand were at the unveiling.

    It is exceedingly unlikely, but exactly what happens if Sony doesn't perceive this as a Japanese console?

    Official member of the Grilling Gentry
    "Brevity is the soul of getting your shit read." - Tube
    Rarely-updated Collecting blog
    He/Him
  • UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    Why would anyone buy a $400 console that doesn't have any games that use its power, enthusiast or otherwise?

    I'm assuming that if you buy a new console, you'd expect things to look better and be more impressive than on the console you had before. The console has to justify itself, and right now that justification is expensive to develop.

    These consoles ARE AAA platforms, that's the only thing that could even remotely drive sales of them at this point, and my question is how anybody, top to bottom in this industry, is planning on supporting that.

    SteamID : same as my PA forum name
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Why would anyone buy a $400 console that doesn't have any games that use its power, enthusiast or otherwise?

    I'm assuming that if you buy a new console, you'd expect things to look better and be more impressive than on the console you had before. The console has to justify itself, and right now that justification is expensive to develop.

    These consoles ARE AAA platforms, that's the only thing that could even remotely drive sales of them at this point, and my question is how anybody, top to bottom in this industry, is planning on supporting that.

    Historically most of the popular consoles have cost 400+ if you adjust for inflation. How are you not getting this?

    No I don't.
  • UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    Why would anyone buy a $400 console that doesn't have any games that use its power, enthusiast or otherwise?

    I'm assuming that if you buy a new console, you'd expect things to look better and be more impressive than on the console you had before. The console has to justify itself, and right now that justification is expensive to develop.

    These consoles ARE AAA platforms, that's the only thing that could even remotely drive sales of them at this point, and my question is how anybody, top to bottom in this industry, is planning on supporting that.

    Historically most of the popular consoles have cost 400+ if you adjust for inflation. How are you not getting this?

    Because you ignored my point?

    SteamID : same as my PA forum name
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Why would anyone buy a $400 console that doesn't have any games that use its power, enthusiast or otherwise?

    I'm assuming that if you buy a new console, you'd expect things to look better and be more impressive than on the console you had before. The console has to justify itself, and right now that justification is expensive to develop.

    These consoles ARE AAA platforms, that's the only thing that could even remotely drive sales of them at this point, and my question is how anybody, top to bottom in this industry, is planning on supporting that.

    Historically most of the popular consoles have cost 400+ if you adjust for inflation. How are you not getting this?

    Because you ignored my point?

    Because your point is circular. 400 is a standard console price, but you say it's too high to reach the fickle casual crowd. But, if he consoles don't cost that much, they can't have all the upgraded features. So they won't have he umph to sell for the lower price, because has the wii u has shown, people aren't buying an underpowered next Gen console. Basically your saying that 400 is too expensive to maintain the AAA cycle, but the cycle can't continue without more powerful consoles.

    Quite frankly your point doesn't make any sense and just sounds like complaining that 400 is too high, despite all historical pricing points otherwise.

    No I don't.
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist Registered User regular
    Personally I'd like to see a return to A and AA games being made, and use those to fuel the AAA's. But that's just me. Apparently my outlook on a leaner, meaner, more fiscally responsible gaming industry doesn't fly around here.

    Official member of the Grilling Gentry
    "Brevity is the soul of getting your shit read." - Tube
    Rarely-updated Collecting blog
    He/Him
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    People who price this stuff for manufacturers put the PS4's current spec at somewhere around $400, give or take $30, plus assembly, OS development, and physical R&D.

    So it really comes down to how much Sony and MS are willing to play with pricing, eating losses, and bundling.

    Even sold at or near cost, a $400 console is putting itself well outside of the casual purchase market, and probably out of the mainstream altogether.

    For these new consoles to be successful, they need to generate sales quickly to create a large enough base to justify the cost for developing exclusive content for them.

    $400 is cheaper than the 3G iPad

    It's a reasonable pricepoint

    sig.png
    a5ehren
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    But how dare Nintendo release a console >$250 mirite?

    It just seems strange that if Sony or MS release something at that price it's okay but there's been posts complaining that the Wii U should have a rock bottom price.

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • AtomikaAtomika technology is your dickfist Registered User regular
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    But how dare Nintendo release a console >$250 mirite?

    It just seems strange that if Sony or MS release something at that price it's okay but there's been posts complaining that the Wii U should have a rock bottom price.

    Maybe because the Wii U has half or less the hardware power and doesn't offer the utility of BRD/DVD?

    Seriously, show some perspective.

    Death of RatsAllforce
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    But how dare Nintendo release a console >$250 mirite?

    It just seems strange that if Sony or MS release something at that price it's okay but there's been posts complaining that the Wii U should have a rock bottom price.

    When Nintendo decides to release modern hardware they can price their console higher.

    No I don't.
    spacekungfumanfrandelgearslipAllforce
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    But how dare Nintendo release a console >$250 mirite?

    It just seems strange that if Sony or MS release something at that price it's okay but there's been posts complaining that the Wii U should have a rock bottom price.

    When Nintendo decides to release modern hardware they can price their console higher.

    Alright so when MS and Sony release consoles with modern hardware that justifies their cost of twice that of an equivalent desktop PC then we can talk about it. Seriously, show some perspective!

    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    But how dare Nintendo release a console >$250 mirite?

    It just seems strange that if Sony or MS release something at that price it's okay but there's been posts complaining that the Wii U should have a rock bottom price.

    When Nintendo decides to release modern hardware they can price their console higher.

    Alright so when MS and Sony release consoles with modern hardware that justifies their cost of twice that of an equivalent desktop PC then we can talk about it. Seriously, show some perspective!

    Wait, you can get a pretty good gaming PC for $200-300? Links please.

    Because if you think MS or Sony are going to price their consoles higher than $400-600 you really need to "get some perspective".

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • AtomikaAtomika technology is your dickfist Registered User regular
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    But how dare Nintendo release a console >$250 mirite?

    It just seems strange that if Sony or MS release something at that price it's okay but there's been posts complaining that the Wii U should have a rock bottom price.

    When Nintendo decides to release modern hardware they can price their console higher.

    Alright so when MS and Sony release consoles with modern hardware that justifies their cost of twice that of an equivalent desktop PC then we can talk about it. Seriously, show some perspective!

    You can get a high-end gaming rig with optical out and HDMI and bluetooth connectivity and BRD/DVD support for $400-500?

    Because you can't even get a MacMini for that.

  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    Ahahaha. High end? I'm sorry these rigs are not even equal to mid range PC hardware. The only difference is the fixed hardware and extra RAM allow developers to work around its limitations.

    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • AtomikaAtomika technology is your dickfist Registered User regular
    Okay, whatever. Enjoy your evening.

    Allforce
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Ahahaha. High end? I'm sorry these rigs are not even equal to mid range PC hardware. The only difference is the fixed hardware and extra RAM allow developers to work around its limitations.

    $164.99: This is the equivelent of the PS4's GPU, but obviously without the 8 gigs of unified ram. This is the cheapest version of it I could find on Newegg.

    Notice how that's a bit less than half way to $400 just on its own? How the fuck do you think you can build a computer (with everything besides a monitor, so including keyboard/mouse) for $200-300?

    Seriously, think before you talk. You're not making any points here, you're just spouting off things that "sound good" until you actually look into them. Or encounter someone who sees through your fanboyish bullshit.

    No I don't.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    People who price this stuff for manufacturers put the PS4's current spec at somewhere around $400, give or take $30, plus assembly, OS development, and physical R&D.

    So it really comes down to how much Sony and MS are willing to play with pricing, eating losses, and bundling.

    Even sold at or near cost, a $400 console is putting itself well outside of the casual purchase market, and probably out of the mainstream altogether.

    For these new consoles to be successful, they need to generate sales quickly to create a large enough base to justify the cost for developing exclusive content for them.

    console-prices-relative-2.png

    I guess the vast majority of consoles are outside the mainstream then. Including the mainstream market leaders.

    I like that you look at this graph and apparently don't see a trend across time.

  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Sorry, I've built more than one PC in my life.

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    People who price this stuff for manufacturers put the PS4's current spec at somewhere around $400, give or take $30, plus assembly, OS development, and physical R&D.

    So it really comes down to how much Sony and MS are willing to play with pricing, eating losses, and bundling.

    Even sold at or near cost, a $400 console is putting itself well outside of the casual purchase market, and probably out of the mainstream altogether.

    For these new consoles to be successful, they need to generate sales quickly to create a large enough base to justify the cost for developing exclusive content for them.

    console-prices-relative-2.png

    I guess the vast majority of consoles are outside the mainstream then. Including the mainstream market leaders.

    I like that you look at this graph and apparently don't see a trend across time.

    I see the trend. I also see that besides the Wii and Snes, every leader in the market cost just about $400 in every generation. When trying to make the point that, no, $400 isn't unusually high for a console, the only thing I can base that on is past performance of consoles released at about that price point (adjusted for inflation).

    No I don't.
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Sorry, I've built more than one PC in my life.

    No, give me links. Build the PS4 for less than $300, including case and controller. Make your point.

    No I don't.
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Sorry, I've built more than one PC in my life.

    No, give me links. Build the PS4 for less than $300, including case and controller. Make your point.

    You can't, because the components are more expensive due to the fact that they are 2 years old and rarer. But that's okay. I'll conceded the point that if you use customized two year old tech it's probably more expensive.
    CPU: Intel Pentium G860 3.0GHz Dual-Core Processor ($68.76 @ Amazon)
    Motherboard: ASRock H61M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($44.99 @ Amazon)
    Memory: Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($37.98 @ Outlet PC)
    Storage: Hitachi 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($55.08 @ NCIX US)
    Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 1GB Video Card ($164.99 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($34.99 @ Newegg)
    Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
    Total: $496.77

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/budget-gaming-do-it-yourself-computer,3364.html

    Swap the OS price for a cheap case and use Linux.

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    People who price this stuff for manufacturers put the PS4's current spec at somewhere around $400, give or take $30, plus assembly, OS development, and physical R&D.

    So it really comes down to how much Sony and MS are willing to play with pricing, eating losses, and bundling.

    Even sold at or near cost, a $400 console is putting itself well outside of the casual purchase market, and probably out of the mainstream altogether.

    For these new consoles to be successful, they need to generate sales quickly to create a large enough base to justify the cost for developing exclusive content for them.

    console-prices-relative-2.png

    I guess the vast majority of consoles are outside the mainstream then. Including the mainstream market leaders.

    I like that you look at this graph and apparently don't see a trend across time.

    I see the trend. I also see that besides the Wii and Snes, every leader in the market cost just about $400 in every generation. When trying to make the point that, no, $400 isn't unusually high for a console, the only thing I can base that on is past performance of consoles released at about that price point (adjusted for inflation).

    Except everything else about gaming has been shrinking in cost wrt inflation.

  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Sorry, I've built more than one PC in my life.

    No, give me links. Build the PS4 for less than $300, including case and controller. Make your point.

    You can't, because the components are more expensive due to the fact that they are 2 years old and rarer. But that's okay. I'll conceded the point that if you use customized two year old tech it's probably more expensive.

    You know, I just highly doubt that. They don't raise prices on cards because they're rarer. This isn't collecting pokemon cards here, older graphics cards lower in price until they just stop, they don't arbitrarily raise in price.

    No I don't.
  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Sorry, I've built more than one PC in my life.

    No, give me links. Build the PS4 for less than $300, including case and controller. Make your point.

    Foomy on
    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    People who price this stuff for manufacturers put the PS4's current spec at somewhere around $400, give or take $30, plus assembly, OS development, and physical R&D.

    So it really comes down to how much Sony and MS are willing to play with pricing, eating losses, and bundling.

    Even sold at or near cost, a $400 console is putting itself well outside of the casual purchase market, and probably out of the mainstream altogether.

    For these new consoles to be successful, they need to generate sales quickly to create a large enough base to justify the cost for developing exclusive content for them.

    console-prices-relative-2.png

    I guess the vast majority of consoles are outside the mainstream then. Including the mainstream market leaders.

    I like that you look at this graph and apparently don't see a trend across time.

    I see the trend. I also see that besides the Wii and Snes, every leader in the market cost just about $400 in every generation. When trying to make the point that, no, $400 isn't unusually high for a console, the only thing I can base that on is past performance of consoles released at about that price point (adjusted for inflation).

    Except everything else about gaming has been shrinking in cost wrt inflation.

    Yes, everything else has, across the board. However this one thing hasn't. For the same reason that building a computer hasn't. Building a machine that anyone would consider cutting edge doesn't go down over time. It's fairly constant. Because building that machine relies on the parts being cutting edge.

    No I don't.
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited February 2013
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Sorry, I've built more than one PC in my life.

    No, give me links. Build the PS4 for less than $300, including case and controller. Make your point.

    You can't, because the components are more expensive due to the fact that they are 2 years old and rarer. But that's okay. I'll conceded the point that if you use customized two year old tech it's probably more expensive.

    Photo%20Feb%2024%2C%209%2059%2020%20PM.jpg

    syndalis on
    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
    Allforce
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Foomy wrote: »
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Sorry, I've built more than one PC in my life.

    No, give me links. Build the PS4 for less than $300, including case and controller. Make your point.

    Where's the capture card and the wireless card?

    No I don't.
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Foomy wrote: »
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Sorry, I've built more than one PC in my life.

    No, give me links. Build the PS4 for less than $300, including case and controller. Make your point.

    The rig you posted is even cheaper than the one I did, but I'm using Intel. Oh well. That's what I get for listening to Tom's Hardware and having brand loyalty ;).

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Foomy wrote: »
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Sorry, I've built more than one PC in my life.

    No, give me links. Build the PS4 for less than $300, including case and controller. Make your point.

    Where's the capture card and the wireless card?

    On PCs we use fraps or livestream.

    edit: btw http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166080 tada wireless

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Foomy wrote: »
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Sorry, I've built more than one PC in my life.

    No, give me links. Build the PS4 for less than $300, including case and controller. Make your point.

    Where's the capture card and the wireless card?

    On PCs we use fraps or livestream.

    Yes, but if you're being intellectually honest you'd have to include ALL the components of the PS4. Your point just doesn't stand, at all.

    No I don't.
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    If we're being intellectually honest in that regard then we can deduct all of the prices by at least 50% because Sony doesn't pay retail.

    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

    Delmain
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Sooo... you're saying the cost of the PS4 to Sony is going to be around $200? They're going to sell their console for a profit this time?

    Man, that Wii U tablet must cost Nintendo a mint if they have to sell a game per system to be in the black.

    No I don't.
  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    Nintendo's own msrp on the tablet controller is around $170. So yes they did spend a lot of the total cost of the wii u on it.

    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
This discussion has been closed.