The only time a survival neutral is in any danger is in situations where people don't think they're a survival neutral. People have to think "oh he's actually the serial killer" or "oh they're marking people? that's sinister", otherwise survival neutral is literally the easiest role in the game to play, and is actively disadvantaged by getting involved because if one team thinks he's working for the team they may decide to kill him.
If the role wasn't busted before the prevalence of soft networking has completely broken it.
Eh, if you build a survival neutral as really requiring negotiation with both sides
Then he's not a survival neutral. He's a neutral that you've invented.
A survival neutral is just a character that needs to live to the end of the game. That's it. The pro as heck guide to playing this role is as follows:
1. Tell everyone you're a survival neutral.
2. Never get involved with the game again.
If there is more to their wincon than just surviving they're not a survival neutral. They may have been the host going "now how can I make a survival neutral interesting" but at that point they're simply a neutral.
In your example, you've created something that is not a neutral. You've created a village role that does not automatically win with the village. If you have to assist one faction to get the win, but not the other, you are a member of that faction. You just have a harder time of it than members of that faction.
Then there was no survival neutral in this game, and we've been using the term wrong over the last few pages. I don't care what word we use. For every time I (and many others!) used that term in the last couple pages, replace it with your preferred term for the kind of neutral that was in this game.
People were arguing that neutral roles like the one in this game are boring and don't add anything to the game, and I was arguing that this kind of neutrals /can/ be interesting to play.
EDIT: also, in my example, I've constructed a role that, in order to win, has to help the village a certain amount, and has to help the mafia some lesser amount. This dynamic means that the neutral has a separate motivation to help the mafia just in order to get enough goodwill to not die.
Invictus on
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Anyone who approaches you and says they are the network are obviously evil. Sadly this has been personally true in every game I've played.
The only time a survival neutral is in any danger is in situations where people don't think they're a survival neutral. People have to think "oh he's actually the serial killer" or "oh they're marking people? that's sinister", otherwise survival neutral is literally the easiest role in the game to play, and is actively disadvantaged by getting involved because if one team thinks he's working for the team they may decide to kill him.
If the role wasn't busted before the prevalence of soft networking has completely broken it.
Eh, if you build a survival neutral as really requiring negotiation with both sides
Then he's not a survival neutral. He's a neutral that you've invented.
A survival neutral is just a character that needs to live to the end of the game. That's it. The pro as heck guide to playing this role is as follows:
1. Tell everyone you're a survival neutral.
2. Never get involved with the game again.
If there is more to their wincon than just surviving they're not a survival neutral. They may have been the host going "now how can I make a survival neutral interesting" but at that point they're simply a neutral.
In your example, you've created something that is not a neutral. You've created a village role that does not automatically win with the village. If you have to assist one faction to get the win, but not the other, you are a member of that faction. You just have a harder time of it than members of that faction.
Then there was no survival neutral in this game, and we've been using the term wrong over the last few pages. I don't care what word we use. For every time I (and many others!) used that term in the last couple pages, replace it with your preferred term for the kind of neutral that was in this game.
People were arguing that neutral roles like the one in this game are boring and don't add anything to the game, and I was arguing that this kind of neutrals /can/ be interesting to play.
As the inventor of the infogatherer role (afaik), I would argue that no, in the current metagame, they don't add anything to the game. :P
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
The only time a survival neutral is in any danger is in situations where people don't think they're a survival neutral. People have to think "oh he's actually the serial killer" or "oh they're marking people? that's sinister", otherwise survival neutral is literally the easiest role in the game to play, and is actively disadvantaged by getting involved because if one team thinks he's working for the team they may decide to kill him.
If the role wasn't busted before the prevalence of soft networking has completely broken it.
Eh, if you build a survival neutral as really requiring negotiation with both sides
Then he's not a survival neutral. He's a neutral that you've invented.
A survival neutral is just a character that needs to live to the end of the game. That's it. The pro as heck guide to playing this role is as follows:
1. Tell everyone you're a survival neutral.
2. Never get involved with the game again.
If there is more to their wincon than just surviving they're not a survival neutral. They may have been the host going "now how can I make a survival neutral interesting" but at that point they're simply a neutral.
In your example, you've created something that is not a neutral. You've created a village role that does not automatically win with the village. If you have to assist one faction to get the win, but not the other, you are a member of that faction. You just have a harder time of it than members of that faction.
Then there was no survival neutral in this game, and we've been using the term wrong over the last few pages. I don't care what word we use. For every time I (and many others!) used that term in the last couple pages, replace it with your preferred term for the kind of neutral that was in this game.
People were arguing that neutral roles like the one in this game are boring and don't add anything to the game, and I was arguing that this kind of neutrals /can/ be interesting to play.
As the inventor of the infogatherer role (afaik), I would argue that no, in the current metagame, they don't add anything to the game. :P
So, which neutral roles are still fun/useful/additive?
Serial Killer is a perennial favourite, with good reason. I have been informed by Unimpeachable Authority from On High that SKs are not neutrals.
If we were doing this again we might have more location-damaging powers and then a trusty maintenance man who just needs everything to be fixed.
Make neutrals that are interesting for non-neutrals to interact with.
Infogatherer is boring because (like survival neutral) the only way it changes your play is "is this guy being honest". If you think he's a mafia lying for role names, don't tell him. If you think he's an infogatherer tell him, because there's no reason not to get him out of the game ASAP.
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Iron WeaselDillon!You son of a bitch!Registered Userregular
edited February 2013
So, I tried to get into my role's head. Here's what I came up with:
INVALID QUERY: PLEASE REPHRASE
WHAT INFORMATION DO YOU SEEK?
...
PLEASE PROVIDE CLEARANCE
...
CLEARANCE ACCEPTED. GOOD EVENING, ADMIRAL
STELLAR COMMUNICATION 852364/WF RETRIEVED. PLAYBACK?
...
ACKNOWLEDGED – TEXT ONLY
MESSAGE FOLLOWS
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UEA Command, this is Colony Ship Wang Fire, Ensign Batyr Kirilenko reporting.
I’d like to talk to you about Honour and Justice.
My great-gandfather fought in the Neo-Iberian Unification War. He lost a leg to a mine strike. When his prosthetic had taken, he re-enlisted and saw the War through. In the process, he was wounded again and twice cited for Valour.
My grandfather spent thirty years in the Navy, trawling the Pacific for pirates, anarchists and eco-terrorists, ensuring that trade lanes stayed open.
My mother was Killed In Action during the Liberation of Mumbai’s Hive City #4. I was eleven weeks old.
Mother could have declined the levy on medical grounds, but she had a fierce sense of duty and an unwavering faith in her superiors, and all of that trickled down to me.
I’ve served the UEA all my adult life. There was never any doubt; it’s in my DNA.
When my name came up in the lottery, my first concern was for my wife, but you assured me she’d be taken care. A pod right beside yours, you promised.
And then a week before launch, you took it back.
Administrative glitches, you said. In the interest of fairness, you wheedled. But I read between the lines: your wife has no skills and isn’t connected to anyone important, so she’s being left behind.
Four generations of my family have served and fought and bled and died for the UEA, and this is how you repay us? How could I let it stand?
Let me be clear: I don’t care about True Keepers or TransHumanists; this isn’t about pseudo-religious causes or political agendas.
This is about me, and the disgraceful manner in which I have been treated.
This is about my Anna, left to die a slow death on a chocking world.
This is about my unborn child, who now will never know the face of her father.
When I was pleading for my wife’s place, you interrupted to remind me that Justice is Blind.
But you seem to have forgotten that Justice also carries a Sword.
I AM THAT SWORD.
Now die on it, as have your lackeys on this wretched ship.
Wang Fire, Over and Out
---
MESSAGE END
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ACKNOWLEDGED – MESSAGE CLASSIFIED MOST SECRET
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ACKNOWLEDGED – MESSAGE TRANSFERRED TO BLACK BOX SERVER
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ACKNOWLEDGED – LOGGING OFF AND WIPING LOCAL CACHE
LOCAL CACHE WIPE COMPLETE
INVALID QUERY: PLEASE REPHRASE
WHAT INFORMATION DO YOU SEEK?
Iron Weasel on
Currently Playing:
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
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Iron WeaselDillon!You son of a bitch!Registered Userregular
So, I tried to get into my role's head. Here's what I came up with:
INVALID QUERY: PLEASE REPHRASE
WHAT INFORMATION DO YOU SEEK?
...
PLEASE PROVIDE CLEARANCE
...
CLEARANCE ACCEPTED. GOOD EVENING, ADMIRAL
STELLAR COMMUNICATION 852364/WF RETRIEVED. PLAYBACK?
...
ACKNOWLEDGED – TEXT ONLY
MESSAGE FOLLOWS
---
UEA Command, this is Colony Ship Wang Fire, Ensign Batyr Kirilenko reporting.
I’d like to talk to you about Honour and Justice.
My great-gandfather fought in the Neo-Iberian Unification War. He lost a leg to a mine strike. When his prosthetic had taken, he re-enlisted and saw the War through. In the process, he was wounded again and twice cited for Valour.
My grandfather spent thirty years in the Navy, trawling the Pacific for pirates, anarchists and eco-terrorists, ensuring that trade lanes stayed open.
My mother was Killed In Action during the Liberation of Mumbai’s Hive City #4. I was eleven weeks old.
Mother could have declined the levy on medical grounds, but she had a fierce sense of duty and an unwavering faith in her superiors, and all of that trickled down to me.
I’ve served the UEA all my adult life. There was never any doubt; it’s in my DNA.
When my name came up in the lottery, my first concern was for my wife, but you assured me she’d be taken care. A pod right beside yours, you promised.
And then a week before launch, you took it back.
Administrative glitches, you said. In the interest of fairness, you wheedled. But I read between the lines: your wife has no skills and isn’t connected to anyone important, so she’s being left behind.
Four generations of my family have served and fought and bled and died for the UEA, and this is how you repay us? How could I let it stand?
Let me be clear: I don’t care about True Keepers or TransHumanists; this isn’t about pseudo-religious causes or political agendas.
This is about me, and the disgraceful manner in which I have been treated.
This is about my Anna, left to die a slow death on a chocking world.
This is about my unborn child, who now will never know the face of her father.
When I was pleading for my wife’s place, you interrupted to remind me that Justice is Blind.
But you seem to have forgotten that Justice also carries a Sword.
I AM THAT SWORD.
Now die on it, as have your lackeys on this wretched ship.
Wang Fire, Over and Out
---
MESSAGE END
...
ACKNOWLEDGED – MESSAGE CLASSIFIED MOST SECRET
...
ACKNOWLEDGED – MESSAGE TRANSFERRED TO BLACK BOX SERVER
...
ACKNOWLEDGED – LOGGING OFF AND WIPING LOCAL CACHE
LOCAL CACHE WIPE COMPLETE
INVALID QUERY: PLEASE REPHRASE
WHAT INFORMATION DO YOU SEEK?
First off: congrats on the Cthulhu game. I thought it went very well!
Second: We're in spaaaace. How about we bury the Day 1 hatchet and just try to survive the trip, yeah?
Mikey CTS February 21
Thank you and that's all ancient history! ... Unless you're already planning to horribly betray me again.
I'm still figuring out my day one vote. When in doubt I guess kime or shamelo.
Iron Weasel February 21
Nah, I'm a crewman this time.
I'm taking a shot at Retaba; that guy tends to lay low and his avatar creeps me out.
Iron Weasel February 21
Ok, here's the deal: I won't deploy any explosives, and you don't guard me. Got it?
Mikey CTS February 21
Done deal! Anyway, I'm thinking about taking a spacewalk.
You know... for funsies!
Iron Weasel February 21
Um, ok. I guess it's the last thing the mafia would expect.
Just make sure you grab an EVA suit first, yeah?
Mikey CTS February 21
Well I guess I could do that.
Iron Weasel February 22
Hey Mikey - you're not going to have any trouble getting back into the ship, are you?
Mikey CTS February 22
I doubt it. I'm barely a blip on the mafias radar. I'm not a very good player after all.
Iron Weasel February 22
Oh, stop it. I meant more in mechanical terms.
Mikey CTS February 23
The only way would be sabotage but I think I'm fine. If I die in space I serve the cause. My phalla rule #1 - play like you're going to die tonight.
Iron Weasel February 23
Good rule!
Mikey CTS February 23
Are you tying to kill me, good buddy?
Iron Weasel February 23
Nah. I'm trying to figure out why I didn't get anything from my search of the Hold :S
Mikey CTS February 23
That's strange. Well I was enjoying zero g at the time. Who else has claimed the hold?
Iron Weasel February 23
Turns out it was an oversight. Phew!
Mikey CTS February 23
Nice.
I had you pegged as mafia after this, but I was already dead before I could act on it. That story was total bs.
Well played, mafia. I was sure that if anyone was playing the village, it was Zombie Hero.
Also I can't believe you killed my mason partner on Day 1.
Also I think this is two games in a row that MrTLicious has tried to vote me out when I've been village. Stop trying to vote me out when I'm village! At least wait until I am mafia.
Also, thanks for running the game, TRV and Grimmy!
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AssuranIs swinging on the SpiralRegistered Userregular
The only person I soft networked this game was Obi, who I think I might have freaked out when I told him his code name the second he outed himself as vig.
Then I told him about the barracks.
After that, I mainly fought fires or forgot to put in orders.
I thought my reading of people was good, for the most part. I just missed on IW.
I really though ZH was the last mafia because his record was just soooo bad.
The only person I soft networked this game was Obi, who I think I might have freaked out when I told him his code name the second he outed himself as vig.
Then I told him about the barracks.
After that, I mainly fought fires or forgot to put in orders.
I thought my reading of people was good, for the most part. I just missed on IW.
I really though ZH was the last mafia because his record was just soooo bad.
I didn't realize how bad it was until you brought it up. This will be a hard game to look back on because i did way more damage to the village than if i had just barely met activity requirements.
The only person I soft networked this game was Obi, who I think I might have freaked out when I told him his code name the second he outed himself as vig.
Then I told him about the barracks.
After that, I mainly fought fires or forgot to put in orders.
I thought my reading of people was good, for the most part. I just missed on IW.
I really though ZH was the last mafia because his record was just soooo bad.
I didn't realize how bad it was until you brought it up. This will be a hard game to look back on because i did way more damage to the village than if i had just barely met activity requirements.
It happens sometimes though, and on average being quiet/inactive is much worse
First off: congrats on the Cthulhu game. I thought it went very well!
Second: We're in spaaaace. How about we bury the Day 1 hatchet and just try to survive the trip, yeah?
Mikey CTS February 21
Thank you and that's all ancient history! ... Unless you're already planning to horribly betray me again.
I'm still figuring out my day one vote. When in doubt I guess kime or shamelo.
Iron Weasel February 21
Nah, I'm a crewman this time.
I'm taking a shot at Retaba; that guy tends to lay low and his avatar creeps me out.
Iron Weasel February 21
Ok, here's the deal: I won't deploy any explosives, and you don't guard me. Got it?
Mikey CTS February 21
Done deal! Anyway, I'm thinking about taking a spacewalk.
You know... for funsies!
Iron Weasel February 21
Um, ok. I guess it's the last thing the mafia would expect.
Just make sure you grab an EVA suit first, yeah?
Mikey CTS February 21
Well I guess I could do that.
Iron Weasel February 22
Hey Mikey - you're not going to have any trouble getting back into the ship, are you?
Mikey CTS February 22
I doubt it. I'm barely a blip on the mafias radar. I'm not a very good player after all.
Iron Weasel February 22
Oh, stop it. I meant more in mechanical terms.
Mikey CTS February 23
The only way would be sabotage but I think I'm fine. If I die in space I serve the cause. My phalla rule #1 - play like you're going to die tonight.
Iron Weasel February 23
Good rule!
Mikey CTS February 23
Are you tying to kill me, good buddy?
Iron Weasel February 23
Nah. I'm trying to figure out why I didn't get anything from my search of the Hold :S
Mikey CTS February 23
That's strange. Well I was enjoying zero g at the time. Who else has claimed the hold?
Iron Weasel February 23
Turns out it was an oversight. Phew!
Mikey CTS February 23
Nice.
I had you pegged as mafia after this, but I was already dead before I could act on it. That story was total bs.
Dude, it was true!
The hosts forgot to give me an item after I searched the Hold1
Currently Playing:
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GT: Tanith 6227
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BaidolI will hold him offEscape while you canRegistered Userregular
Let us fix the term, first off. Neutral means they don't care about the mafia/village struggle and win condition, and vice versa. They are on a different axis.
A SK is defined by the win condition that they eliminate everyone else, which is a loss for mafia and village both. Their win condition is for the mafia and village to both lose.
That is as far from neutral as you can possibly get.
Now, a survival neutral is neutral, but boring as hell. A village idiot that does not end the game as a loss for everyone else (the normal VI in phalla land) is a neutral, since they win or lose based on their own axis and do not interfere directly with the village/mafia axis.
A good neutral is one that does however impact the "game" (the village/mafia axis). That makes things interesting for the village and mafia aligned, because now they have an interest in the neutrals actions (a VI is trying to misappropriate a village tool, the vote) and they therefore might try to influence the neutral. Interaction makes a good neutral role.
For an example of some neutral groups in one of my games, PHA/LLA had two. One was the Corporate Hackers, three players that didn't care about the hackers vs government victory. What they cared about was ensuring that the losses of their corporation (from hackers looting paydata) was below 10,000 credits. Now, this is a separate axis, but the common element (currency) could impact both parts of the game. Hackers could use credits to improve their position to fight the government, and vice versa. Conflict and deals and what not were up to the village and neutrals, and there was no incentive for the village to "just leave us alone." The other was a group of "escorts" led by the cyberpimp that could provide services (healing, sorta) and their win condition was to gain income of at least 8,000 credits. Again, they cannot win without others, and the interplay of these three axes was the entire point of neutrals being in the game.
Without axes and interaction, a neutral should not be part of the game. Consider that when designing. What is considered typically "survival neutral" is useless cruft.
Now what the Transhumanists were was not a survival neutral, it had its own win condition that required interaction. It just wasn't a very strong or interesting one, and could have had potential with a good bit of tweaking. The initial valuation of "wait for network, get handed the win" was the correct one, which isn't really adding to the game all that much. But at least there was some risk and gain due to the exchange of code names between axes. Code names were a common element, like credits were in PHA/LLA. You need that interplay for there to be any point.
The only time a survival neutral is in any danger is in situations where people don't think they're a survival neutral. People have to think "oh he's actually the serial killer" or "oh they're marking people? that's sinister", otherwise survival neutral is literally the easiest role in the game to play, and is actively disadvantaged by getting involved because if one team thinks he's working for the team they may decide to kill him.
If the role wasn't busted before the prevalence of soft networking has completely broken it.
Eh, if you build a survival neutral as really requiring negotiation with both sides
Then he's not a survival neutral. He's a neutral that you've invented.
A survival neutral is just a character that needs to live to the end of the game. That's it. The pro as heck guide to playing this role is as follows:
1. Tell everyone you're a survival neutral.
2. Never get involved with the game again.
If there is more to their wincon than just surviving they're not a survival neutral. They may have been the host going "now how can I make a survival neutral interesting" but at that point they're simply a neutral.
In your example, you've created something that is not a neutral. You've created a village role that does not automatically win with the village. If you have to assist one faction to get the win, but not the other, you are a member of that faction. You just have a harder time of it than members of that faction.
Then there was no survival neutral in this game, and we've been using the term wrong over the last few pages. I don't care what word we use. For every time I (and many others!) used that term in the last couple pages, replace it with your preferred term for the kind of neutral that was in this game.
People were arguing that neutral roles like the one in this game are boring and don't add anything to the game, and I was arguing that this kind of neutrals /can/ be interesting to play.
As the inventor of the infogatherer role (afaik), I would argue that no, in the current metagame, they don't add anything to the game. :P
they're fun!
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
In the twenty or so games I've played this was the first time I've been voted out without a seer call*, so that was a new experience.
I should have stayed in Comms for day 3, but I was worried the fire wouldn't get put out and I'd die.
I was the village narrator manipulator. My big mistake was interpreting "no bbcode" as meaning not being able to mimic the message timestamps. If I'd read that correctly I would have formatted my message appropriately so people would be warned.
OH FUCK, I just realized something. On every other night the timestamp format used periods, but on night 2 it used semicolons except for the fake conversion message (which was based off night 1's format). If anybody had noticed that we could have discounted it.
* Not counting the game where there were 3 mafia factions plus the village, none of us knew who the other members of our faction were, none of the mafia factions had any kills, and someone in a different faction was told I was mafia in their role PM.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Someone bookmark or save that post so we can put that in Phalla University when I finally get it approved.
AssuranIs swinging on the SpiralRegistered Userregular
edited February 2013
The pure survival neutral is boring. I improvised in Mikey's game and engaged in some role playing, but it only got me killed.
I loved the concept of the blood broker Setite in my game who had to interact with all factions to win. It needed a slight tweak in retrospect, however, because it was too easily co-opted by Langly.
I also like the idea of (redacted because it's in my next phalla), that I'll discuss after the game is over.
Posts
Hello Locus.
We are the Network - or what's left of it.
We have accepted your claim that you are a Mason.
We've done the math and have determined that if we don't get the mafia tonight, we lose.
So we need your help to win the game.
Today, we need you to vote for blahmcblah. Once placed, it is vitally important that your vote not change for any reason.
If you're mafia, then congrats - you've pretty much won.
But if you are Village, this is your opportunity to help us clinch the win.
Locus 10:34AM
Okay, you have my vote. Phone posting at the moment, I'll put my vote in when I can.
Iron Weasel 10:41AM
We appreciate it, Locus. Thank you.
Iron Weasel 11:03AM
FYI, accelerated vote has been approved. Next vote closes at 1PM EST.
Iron Weasel 11:56AM
Well done.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
Then there was no survival neutral in this game, and we've been using the term wrong over the last few pages. I don't care what word we use. For every time I (and many others!) used that term in the last couple pages, replace it with your preferred term for the kind of neutral that was in this game.
People were arguing that neutral roles like the one in this game are boring and don't add anything to the game, and I was arguing that this kind of neutrals /can/ be interesting to play.
EDIT: also, in my example, I've constructed a role that, in order to win, has to help the village a certain amount, and has to help the mafia some lesser amount. This dynamic means that the neutral has a separate motivation to help the mafia just in order to get enough goodwill to not die.
I had VS kill you because both you and Baidol claimed to have fixed comms. Baidol explained that one of you must be lying so you died first.
Then when you came up green, Baidol had to, and did, die.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
I've been wondering about this. I really did get a PM saying I fixed the comm array.
As the inventor of the infogatherer role (afaik), I would argue that no, in the current metagame, they don't add anything to the game. :P
Its because I always confuse you and Spoit
So I should be grudging you, too. Noted.
If cleaning up loose ends as a network head requires grudging, then yes, grudge away.
haha
no
simpsons always did it first
Serial Killer is a perennial favourite, with good reason. I have been informed by Unimpeachable Authority from On High that SKs are not neutrals.
If we were doing this again we might have more location-damaging powers and then a trusty maintenance man who just needs everything to be fixed.
Infogatherer is boring because (like survival neutral) the only way it changes your play is "is this guy being honest". If you think he's a mafia lying for role names, don't tell him. If you think he's an infogatherer tell him, because there's no reason not to get him out of the game ASAP.
WHAT INFORMATION DO YOU SEEK?
...
PLEASE PROVIDE CLEARANCE
...
CLEARANCE ACCEPTED. GOOD EVENING, ADMIRAL
STELLAR COMMUNICATION 852364/WF RETRIEVED. PLAYBACK?
...
ACKNOWLEDGED – TEXT ONLY
MESSAGE FOLLOWS
---
UEA Command, this is Colony Ship Wang Fire, Ensign Batyr Kirilenko reporting.
I’d like to talk to you about Honour and Justice.
My great-gandfather fought in the Neo-Iberian Unification War. He lost a leg to a mine strike. When his prosthetic had taken, he re-enlisted and saw the War through. In the process, he was wounded again and twice cited for Valour.
My grandfather spent thirty years in the Navy, trawling the Pacific for pirates, anarchists and eco-terrorists, ensuring that trade lanes stayed open.
My mother was Killed In Action during the Liberation of Mumbai’s Hive City #4. I was eleven weeks old.
Mother could have declined the levy on medical grounds, but she had a fierce sense of duty and an unwavering faith in her superiors, and all of that trickled down to me.
I’ve served the UEA all my adult life. There was never any doubt; it’s in my DNA.
When my name came up in the lottery, my first concern was for my wife, but you assured me she’d be taken care. A pod right beside yours, you promised.
And then a week before launch, you took it back.
Administrative glitches, you said. In the interest of fairness, you wheedled. But I read between the lines: your wife has no skills and isn’t connected to anyone important, so she’s being left behind.
Four generations of my family have served and fought and bled and died for the UEA, and this is how you repay us? How could I let it stand?
Let me be clear: I don’t care about True Keepers or TransHumanists; this isn’t about pseudo-religious causes or political agendas.
This is about me, and the disgraceful manner in which I have been treated.
This is about my Anna, left to die a slow death on a chocking world.
This is about my unborn child, who now will never know the face of her father.
When I was pleading for my wife’s place, you interrupted to remind me that Justice is Blind.
But you seem to have forgotten that Justice also carries a Sword.
I AM THAT SWORD.
Now die on it, as have your lackeys on this wretched ship.
Wang Fire, Over and Out
---
MESSAGE END
...
ACKNOWLEDGED – MESSAGE CLASSIFIED MOST SECRET
...
ACKNOWLEDGED – MESSAGE TRANSFERRED TO BLACK BOX SERVER
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The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
So tell me truth... Was it you who electrocuted me? just need to know who to grudge.
Iron Weasel February 26
I solemnly swear that I had nothing to do with your electrocution.
But if you wanna grudge me for old time's sake, I won't mind
Mikey CTS February 26
Nah. It's not worth as much if it doesn't have that special betrayal behind it.
I'm sure we will stab each other in the back in the future.
Iron Weasel February 26
Maybe sooner than you think - it's PARANOIA, after all!
Mikey CTS February 26
There's nobody I'd rather horribly betray than you buddy.
Iron Weasel February 26
Iron Weasel February 26
Void Slayer is saying that he's the one who electrocuted you.
Mikey CTS February 26
Grudged!
Iron Weasel February 26
Let the Hate flow through you.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
This is the kinda shit I love
Heya Mikey,
First off: congrats on the Cthulhu game. I thought it went very well!
Second: We're in spaaaace. How about we bury the Day 1 hatchet and just try to survive the trip, yeah?
Mikey CTS February 21
Thank you and that's all ancient history! ... Unless you're already planning to horribly betray me again.
I'm still figuring out my day one vote. When in doubt I guess kime or shamelo.
Iron Weasel February 21
Nah, I'm a crewman this time.
I'm taking a shot at Retaba; that guy tends to lay low and his avatar creeps me out.
Iron Weasel February 21
Ok, here's the deal: I won't deploy any explosives, and you don't guard me. Got it?
Mikey CTS February 21
Done deal! Anyway, I'm thinking about taking a spacewalk.
You know... for funsies!
Iron Weasel February 21
Um, ok. I guess it's the last thing the mafia would expect.
Just make sure you grab an EVA suit first, yeah?
Mikey CTS February 21
Well I guess I could do that.
Iron Weasel February 22
Hey Mikey - you're not going to have any trouble getting back into the ship, are you?
Mikey CTS February 22
I doubt it. I'm barely a blip on the mafias radar. I'm not a very good player after all.
Iron Weasel February 22
Oh, stop it. I meant more in mechanical terms.
Mikey CTS February 23
The only way would be sabotage but I think I'm fine. If I die in space I serve the cause. My phalla rule #1 - play like you're going to die tonight.
Iron Weasel February 23
Good rule!
Mikey CTS February 23
Are you tying to kill me, good buddy?
Iron Weasel February 23
Nah. I'm trying to figure out why I didn't get anything from my search of the Hold :S
Mikey CTS February 23
That's strange. Well I was enjoying zero g at the time. Who else has claimed the hold?
Iron Weasel February 23
Turns out it was an oversight. Phew!
Mikey CTS February 23
Nice.
I had you pegged as mafia after this, but I was already dead before I could act on it. That story was total bs.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Also I can't believe you killed my mason partner on Day 1.
Also I think this is two games in a row that MrTLicious has tried to vote me out when I've been village. Stop trying to vote me out when I'm village! At least wait until I am mafia.
Also, thanks for running the game, TRV and Grimmy!
Then I told him about the barracks.
After that, I mainly fought fires or forgot to put in orders.
I thought my reading of people was good, for the most part. I just missed on IW.
I really though ZH was the last mafia because his record was just soooo bad.
I didn't realize how bad it was until you brought it up. This will be a hard game to look back on because i did way more damage to the village than if i had just barely met activity requirements.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
It happens sometimes though, and on average being quiet/inactive is much worse
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
I'm the one who picked Warban's name, but I had to withdraw.
The hosts forgot to give me an item after I searched the Hold1
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
Post or die.
Let us fix the term, first off. Neutral means they don't care about the mafia/village struggle and win condition, and vice versa. They are on a different axis.
A SK is defined by the win condition that they eliminate everyone else, which is a loss for mafia and village both. Their win condition is for the mafia and village to both lose.
That is as far from neutral as you can possibly get.
Now, a survival neutral is neutral, but boring as hell. A village idiot that does not end the game as a loss for everyone else (the normal VI in phalla land) is a neutral, since they win or lose based on their own axis and do not interfere directly with the village/mafia axis.
A good neutral is one that does however impact the "game" (the village/mafia axis). That makes things interesting for the village and mafia aligned, because now they have an interest in the neutrals actions (a VI is trying to misappropriate a village tool, the vote) and they therefore might try to influence the neutral. Interaction makes a good neutral role.
For an example of some neutral groups in one of my games, PHA/LLA had two. One was the Corporate Hackers, three players that didn't care about the hackers vs government victory. What they cared about was ensuring that the losses of their corporation (from hackers looting paydata) was below 10,000 credits. Now, this is a separate axis, but the common element (currency) could impact both parts of the game. Hackers could use credits to improve their position to fight the government, and vice versa. Conflict and deals and what not were up to the village and neutrals, and there was no incentive for the village to "just leave us alone." The other was a group of "escorts" led by the cyberpimp that could provide services (healing, sorta) and their win condition was to gain income of at least 8,000 credits. Again, they cannot win without others, and the interplay of these three axes was the entire point of neutrals being in the game.
Without axes and interaction, a neutral should not be part of the game. Consider that when designing. What is considered typically "survival neutral" is useless cruft.
Now what the Transhumanists were was not a survival neutral, it had its own win condition that required interaction. It just wasn't a very strong or interesting one, and could have had potential with a good bit of tweaking. The initial valuation of "wait for network, get handed the win" was the correct one, which isn't really adding to the game all that much. But at least there was some risk and gain due to the exchange of code names between axes. Code names were a common element, like credits were in PHA/LLA. You need that interplay for there to be any point.
they're fun!
I should have stayed in Comms for day 3, but I was worried the fire wouldn't get put out and I'd die.
I was the village narrator manipulator. My big mistake was interpreting "no bbcode" as meaning not being able to mimic the message timestamps. If I'd read that correctly I would have formatted my message appropriately so people would be warned.
OH FUCK, I just realized something. On every other night the timestamp format used periods, but on night 2 it used semicolons except for the fake conversion message (which was based off night 1's format). If anybody had noticed that we could have discounted it.
* Not counting the game where there were 3 mafia factions plus the village, none of us knew who the other members of our faction were, none of the mafia factions had any kills, and someone in a different faction was told I was mafia in their role PM.
I enjoyed narrations but I'm a sucker for readouts.
Thanks. We enjoyed writing them.
Especially the first part. I'm tired of people saying SKs are neutral :P
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
I greatly enjoy being a robot
I loved the concept of the blood broker Setite in my game who had to interact with all factions to win. It needed a slight tweak in retrospect, however, because it was too easily co-opted by Langly.
I also like the idea of (redacted because it's in my next phalla), that I'll discuss after the game is over.