Anyways, the last few games i have played the mafia were quite happy to let two village wagons race each other, which is why i looked towards one off votes.
@Langly Austin crossed her arms and looked at Hester 'Langly' Fields sideways, pursing her lips.
"Someone thought 'premium' was demonspawn, so he got shanked. I don't disagree with your assessment, but I don't have any stronger leads, do you? And Gideon (Dys) is right... if we don't kill him tonight, he will continue to be a distraction. But if anyone has stronger reasoning for another candidate, I'm flexible," Austin implied impishly.
without color-coded deaths, we don't know who killed premium. we can infer a village vig based on the fluff, but that's not a sure thing. the only thing we know is the mafia definitely killed bradicus.
It would make a lot of sense for the premium kill to be the village vig. Killing the second place wagon so they don't become a distraction is a great day 1 vig move. It helps us move past the "he survived a day 1 wagon, he must be mafia!" hysteria that gets us a lot on day 2. Plus, it's not like the vig is going to have a whole lot of better leads.
If the dice roll is that he chose all villagers (not impossible or even completely unlikely), .
Very unlikely actually .8 ^ 9 = 13%
We should assume at least one mafia is a shard
actually, if the acquaintance has to have only shard people alive at the end of the game, and the demon king osa cannot be killed until all the demons are dead, it doesn't matter if there are shard holders in the mafia. The acquaintance needs the king dead, mechanically, and the only way to do that is to kill all of the mafia.
I mean, there could be loads of stuff that he can do/knows that invalidates that, but currently I can't see how the mafia could ever work with him, since his win con ultimately demands their removal.
Unless OSA gets revealed and it turns out that he got sharded. In which case, whooooooooo
The MrT wagon doesn't seem to initially have been a wagon, but I somewhat agree with getting rid of someone with the smallest hint of suspicion. Lord knows I've set my sights on one person then wouldn't let go until days later when they turned out green...
Oliver didn't care for the council. They were corrupt. Well, more corrupt than he was, but he was honest about who he was and that made all the difference in the world. Burter wouldn't lift a finder to help him out if the tables were turned. If they thought he was worth getting rid of, Oliver couldn't even fathom coming up with reasons to save his skin.
@Langly Austin crossed her arms and looked at Hester 'Langly' Fields sideways, pursing her lips.
"Someone thought 'premium' was demonspawn, so he got shanked. I don't disagree with your assessment, but I don't have any stronger leads, do you? And Gideon (Dys) is right... if we don't kill him tonight, he will continue to be a distraction. But if anyone has stronger reasoning for another candidate, I'm flexible," Austin implied impishly.
without color-coded deaths, we don't know who killed premium. we can infer a village vig based on the fluff, but that's not a sure thing. the only thing we know is the mafia definitely killed bradicus.
It would make a lot of sense for the premium kill to be the village vig. Killing the second place wagon so they don't become a distraction is a great day 1 vig move. It helps us move past the "he survived a day 1 wagon, he must be mafia!" hysteria that gets us a lot on day 2. Plus, it's not like the vig is going to have a whole lot of better leads.
Based on this reasoning and Phyphor's count, which put Megafrost ahead by 4 votes, I agree that Premium was likely the victim of a vig; 4 votes seems like a lot of ground for a manipulation to cover (disclaimer: this is only my second Main, so maybe those abilities are more common/powerful than I'm used to).
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Poor assumption. If any of the mafia are sharded, then he has to be one of them. Otherwise the A's wincon is impossible.
what, why?
it would be the same goal as any serial killer. Whittle down both sides until you can reasonably kill enough to be the last person standing (+ your shards)
I don't see where or why the acquaintance needs to kill the demon king. If he did, then hooray invincible village network head.
if the demon king does not have a shard, then he does not fall under the acquaintance's win condition (all players alive must have shards).
you can't kill the demon king until all demons are dead
so if the demon king, specifically, does not have a shard, then the acquaintance must see them killed.
That single conditional situation leads me to believe that the Demon King probably has a shard.
well the mafia is listed as having shard removal powers (unless that just means killing, which, I guess it could)
Shards are removed upon death and by village or mafia special powers.
the "and" here makes me assume that it is something other than straight killing someone, since that's the same thing as death.
So if that's the case, and they have to have a shard, it seems like it wouldn't last long?
If I was the Demon King and I knew that keeping the shard in me was the only reason that A wasn't working exclusively against me, I would most definitely never remove it.
This is, again, assuming that people who are sharded even know they are sharded.
Demonking: No Shard, invincible until all minions are dead
Demon minion: sharded
now, draw me up a scenario where the A wins by having only sharded people alive. you have to be able to move shards for that.
Easily done. "Aqualung needs only shard-people standing" is not remotely the same as "Aqualung needs all of his shard-people to be the only ones standing."
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
New plan! Everyone says the name and whoever he doesn't punish clearly has a shard in them!
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
If only sharded folk remain, they instantly die and The Acquaintance wins.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
edited March 2013
Acquaintance wincon - Have only sharded people alive before demons or village attain their wincon
Demon wincon - Kill all the village (edit: and remove all shards?)
Village wincon - Kill all the demons (edit: AND REMOVE ALL SHARDS)
So this game will probably not end when the demons outnumber the village, as far as I can tell, in order to give the acquaintance the chance to win
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
And for emphasis, you must remove all shards AND kill all demons to win.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Acquaintance wincon - Have only sharded people alive before demons or village attain their wincon
Demon wincon - Kill all the village
Village wincon - Kill all the demons
So this game will probably not end when the demons outnumber the village, as far as I can tell, in order to give the acquaintance the chance to win
I think you'd have to add that both the village and demons have to remove all of the shards.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Acquaintance wincon - Have only sharded people alive before demons or village attain their wincon
Demon wincon - Kill all the village
Village wincon - Kill all the demons
So this game will probably not end when the demons outnumber the village, as far as I can tell, in order to give the acquaintance the chance to win
I think you'd have to add that both the village and demons have to remove all of the shards.
Why would you think this before Munkus's clarification?
It'd be better to say The Game will not end when the demons outnumber the rest of us IF there are still shard-people around. If all the shards are removed and the demons outnumber us, we're going to get eaten just as sure as the summer is hot. Then our only consolation is the agavemancer won't be around to gloat at our corpses.
Oh you people... moving on past me while I'm busy forming a cogent thought. Anyone have a comb and some brilliantine? I fear my beard's in a bit of a state.
Sometimes I have ideas for things.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Acquaintance wincon - Have only sharded people alive before demons or village attain their wincon
Demon wincon - Kill all the village
Village wincon - Kill all the demons
So this game will probably not end when the demons outnumber the village, as far as I can tell, in order to give the acquaintance the chance to win
I think you'd have to add that both the village and demons have to remove all of the shards.
Why would you think this before Munkus's clarification?
Because only one faction can win. The Acquaintance can only be defeated if only non-shard people remain. So we'd have to get rid of the shards in order to defeat the Acquaintance. The demons would have to do the same.
That is what I understood too when it was mentioned only one side could win.
Do we think the sharded are aware of this? My thoughts lean to no but I have no way of knowing for sure.
Edit - by aware of this I mean that they are sharded.
I like saying sharded.
Retaba on
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Acquaintance wincon - Have only sharded people alive before demons or village attain their wincon
Demon wincon - Kill all the village
Village wincon - Kill all the demons
So this game will probably not end when the demons outnumber the village, as far as I can tell, in order to give the acquaintance the chance to win
I think you'd have to add that both the village and demons have to remove all of the shards.
Why would you think this before Munkus's clarification?
Because only one faction can win. The Acquaintance can only be defeated if only non-shard people remain. So we'd have to get rid of the shards in order to defeat the Acquaintance. The demons would have to do the same.
Nothing had been said to that point that inferred the bolded at all.
If our wincon was to kill the demons, then it wouldn't matter if any shards were around and we could have just won.
Wincons don't have to be mutually exclusive (I think thats the right use of that phrase)
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It would make a lot of sense for the premium kill to be the village vig. Killing the second place wagon so they don't become a distraction is a great day 1 vig move. It helps us move past the "he survived a day 1 wagon, he must be mafia!" hysteria that gets us a lot on day 2. Plus, it's not like the vig is going to have a whole lot of better leads.
Unless OSA gets revealed and it turns out that he got sharded. In which case, whooooooooo
Oliver didn't care for the council. They were corrupt. Well, more corrupt than he was, but he was honest about who he was and that made all the difference in the world. Burter wouldn't lift a finder to help him out if the tables were turned. If they thought he was worth getting rid of, Oliver couldn't even fathom coming up with reasons to save his skin.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Because his wincon is to have the ONLY people alive at the end of the game be sharded.
People are assuming the Mafia Boss isn't sharded.
if the demon king does not have a shard, then he does not fall under the acquaintance's win condition (all players alive must have shards).
you can't kill the demon king until all demons are dead
so if the demon king, specifically, does not have a shard, then the acquaintance must see them killed.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
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GT: Tanith 6227
That single conditional situation leads me to believe that the Demon King probably has a shard.
what, why?
it would be the same goal as any serial killer. Whittle down both sides until you can reasonably kill enough to be the last person standing (+ your shards)
Demon minion: sharded
now, draw me up a scenario where the A wins by having only sharded people alive. you have to be able to move shards for that.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
well the mafia is listed as having shard removal powers (unless that just means killing, which, I guess it could)
the "and" here makes me assume that it is something other than straight killing someone, since that's the same thing as death.
So if that's the case, and they have to have a shard, it seems like it wouldn't last long?
If I was the Demon King and I knew that keeping the shard in me was the only reason that A wasn't working exclusively against me, I would most definitely never remove it.
This is, again, assuming that people who are sharded even know they are sharded.
unless no one can win with the acquaintance, which has never been established.
I started this whole discussion thinking that wasn't the case, but the village and the mafia having shard removal abilities makes me think that it is.
which I guess is pretty much useless because it just circles into "well we don't know"
Can the demonking and a minion demon die in the same night?
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Easily done. "Aqualung needs only shard-people standing" is not remotely the same as "Aqualung needs all of his shard-people to be the only ones standing."
Yeah, this is mostly academic anyways. Hunting mafia is still the best course of action
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
The only reason the bolded is true is because we don't know our wincon
If we knew our wincon, we could ascertain if the acquaintance is contrary to it or not
Only one faction can win the game, Acquaintance, village, or demon.
So as long as there is one person alive who is not sharded when we remove the demons, Aqualung loses.
So he's basically a SK but with a little less restrictive wincon
New plan! Everyone says the name and whoever he doesn't punish clearly has a shard in them!
Demon wincon - Kill all the village (edit: and remove all shards?)
Village wincon - Kill all the demons (edit: AND REMOVE ALL SHARDS)
So this game will probably not end when the demons outnumber the village, as far as I can tell, in order to give the acquaintance the chance to win
What
The
Hell
Why would you think this before Munkus's clarification?
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GT: Tanith 6227
THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT
Sharded people do not win with the Acquaintance. Your best bet is to get those shards out of you ASAP.
Do we think the sharded are aware of this? My thoughts lean to no but I have no way of knowing for sure.
Edit - by aware of this I mean that they are sharded.
I like saying sharded.
Nothing had been said to that point that inferred the bolded at all.
If our wincon was to kill the demons, then it wouldn't matter if any shards were around and we could have just won.
Wincons don't have to be mutually exclusive (I think thats the right use of that phrase)
"Services?"
How good are you at wand and artifact polishing?