I enjoyed giving this a whirl at PAX. It made a better impression than sitting on line for 2.5 hours to play 20 min of elder scrolls online and wasting time because I broke my character (I seem to be good at this type of thing <.<), making him auto-run backwards til one of the guys came over to reset my station.
Also, yes, Dominion ho!
Also, also, I got >two< tshirts from Carbine and only one from Bethesda - I am susceptible to bribes, your move Elderscrolls Online
Varg on
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Hm, quite. (adjusts monocle).
"I do say Lord Gotzmonei, there seem to be some ragamuffins at our gates."
"My word, Count Hisgould I do believe you're right."
"Shall I fire the diamond cannons?"
"Post-haste my good man! Whichever one of the urchins survives shall be able to afford his own... I assume hovel."
"Quite generous of you ol'bean!"
"Indubitably Count Hisgould, charity begins at home et cetera, et cetera."
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Wow, this is a beta I really hope I get into. I've tried a couple other MMOs recently but this looks like it may be much more my style. Fingers crossed!
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
20 and 40 man raids
40 v 40 warplot battles
Warplots function as their own battleground outside the battleground system (The two opposing warplots combine to form the battlefield) and a ranked win means you have a chance to take stuff from your opponent's warplot.
There's a "circle" feature, (Circle of friends) that allows players to gain certain bonuses for grouping with friends that may not necessarily be in their guild.
also: "I can't really get into the mechanics of it, because our main healer hasn't been announced yet" which I hope translates into something more than just Space Priest. Supposedly there are going to be skillshot heals that lay down telegraphs like the dps classes.
20 and 40 man raids
40 v 40 warplot battles
Warplots function as their own battleground outside the battleground system (The two opposing warplots combine to form the battlefield) and a ranked win means you have a chance to take stuff from your opponent's warplot.
There's a "circle" feature, (Circle of friends) that allows players to gain certain bonuses for grouping with friends that may not necessarily be in their guild.
also: "I can't really get into the mechanics of it, because our main healer hasn't been announced yet" which I hope translates into something more than just Space Priest. Supposedly there are going to be skillshot heals that lay down telegraphs like the dps classes.
One of the previous videos (gamespot one I believe) the guy mentioned a healer "pooping" out healing stuff I believe. Made me think of Tera Mystics
Also, I know housing was their new hot release but I am hoping they put as much thought and detail into all the other areas of the game. Housing is not a system that makes me too excited but all these videos feel like that's all they want to talk about (I know I know probably all they are allowed to talk about)
I suspect that I'll end up playing a Cyberman Warrior, because what's not to love about a killbot with a giant sword that spins?
I saw sword spinning!
VRRRRRRR
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
We Are Nice Gulag; featuring a fully stocked bar in the Cognac Command Bunker, laser turrets as big as an elephant, an alarm system designed with HAL9000's vocal imprint that sings old Barbershop quartet songs to motivate prison labourers, an emergency self destruct system, and, our secret weapon; Basil's Uber Laser Launcher Satelite Homing Ion Targeting System, or BULLSHITS. It can vaporize targets as small as a pin needle from space. It's so OP, it'll have our unfortunate opposition declaring bullshit!
I don't understand what thought process went into the decision to do 40-man raids and 40v40 GvG fights. World of Warcraft already showed that 40 people is well beyond any sort of reasonableness, and ditched it with the very first expansion.
Guilds will only exist as giant amalgamations of random people because you need hundreds of members to accomplish anything, it seems.
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
I don't understand what thought process went into the decision to do 40-man raids and 40v40 GvG fights. World of Warcraft already showed that 40 people is well beyond any sort of reasonableness, and ditched it with the very first expansion.
Guilds will only exist as giant amalgamations of random people because you need hundreds of members to accomplish anything, it seems.
As far as the 40 man raids are concerned the dev in that video stated that they're not tying major narrative content to their raids so people that don't want to get involved in that don't really have to in order to see the story. 20 man raids are going to be the standard and 40-man activities purely for the challenge because apparently they intend to make that content fairly difficult.
PSN: Waybackkidd
"...only mights and maybes."
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
20 and 40 man raids
40 v 40 warplot battles
Warplots function as their own battleground outside the battleground system (The two opposing warplots combine to form the battlefield) and a ranked win means you have a chance to take stuff from your opponent's warplot.
There's a "circle" feature, (Circle of friends) that allows players to gain certain bonuses for grouping with friends that may not necessarily be in their guild.
also: "I can't really get into the mechanics of it, because our main healer hasn't been announced yet" which I hope translates into something more than just Space Priest. Supposedly there are going to be skillshot heals that lay down telegraphs like the dps classes.
One of the previous videos (gamespot one I believe) the guy mentioned a healer "pooping" out healing stuff I believe. Made me think of Tera Mystics
Also, I know housing was their new hot release but I am hoping they put as much thought and detail into all the other areas of the game. Housing is not a system that makes me too excited but all these videos feel like that's all they want to talk about (I know I know probably all they are allowed to talk about)
Based on what the devs are saying the base game is mostly feature complete at this point. Apparently they're at the stage now where it's mostly content creation and sub systems/squashing game killing bugs along with tying it all together so the systems interact with each other but that was a couple of months ago. The low level combat looks like fairly standard stuff but glimpses of higher level content they've created looks actually kind of fresh.
I'm actually more curious as to when they plan on releasing this outside of the "When it's done" stuff because you can tell that stuff to the press but shareholders aren't going to let an answer like that fly.
PSN: Waybackkidd
"...only mights and maybes."
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
As long as 40 mans are handled better then in WoW with supporting systems and incentives like badge loot and aren't mandatory but another level of raid difficulty, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be brought back. 40 man raids in WoW were pretty epic after all the annoyance of organizing and the like was done.
I don't mind 40 mans being a thing people can do, but I never want to do them. So long as Wildstar doesn't lock all the cool stuff behind big raids, it should be okay.
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
They claim it's part of their evolving "Elder game" which I know is just buzzspeak but from what I can tell they don't want 40 man or even the 20 man raids tied to narrative progression. Story stuff is going to be tied to small group content and single-player/five man "raids" so that people that prefer to solo don't get left behind. They want the raids, especially 40 man to be for the "hardcore" and seem to be sticking to a stance of "If you can't do it, you can't do it. We're not dumbing it down"
PSN: Waybackkidd
"...only mights and maybes."
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
I don't understand what thought process went into the decision to do 40-man raids and 40v40 GvG fights. World of Warcraft already showed that 40 people is well beyond any sort of reasonableness, and ditched it with the very first expansion.
Guilds will only exist as giant amalgamations of random people because you need hundreds of members to accomplish anything, it seems.
Yeah this seems like a pretty shocking step back, honestly.
40 man content wasn't just onerous to organize, it was incredibly fucking boring! Generally speaking in MMO combat, the more people are present, the less individual strategy and contribution actually matters. Well, unless you want your content to just be a permanent impassable wall anyway.
I could see 40 man content working if it split the group into working on multiple fronts (perhaps with some related to the different path specialties).
The thing about "40 man is okay if it's not required" is that it is development time that is absolutely taken away from other areas, most likely the 20-man content. Even if it's "the same", there is a ton of work that goes into fine-tuning encounters, and that doesn't carry over between differently-scaled versions of an encounter. You are accepting a marginally worse experience so that the developers can entertain the idea of pleasing some poopsockers.
Splitting up a 40-man into a bunch of smaller groups might work, but then you run into issues dividing up a 20-man. If the intent is to have eight self-sufficient 5-man groups in the 40-man, then either the encounter needs to be substantially different for 20-man (see: development time), or it'll just not work very well (8 tanks, 8 healers, 4 DPS!)
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
edited March 2013
@Garthor raises a good point. And a good number of us remember 40 mans. Coordination was never the issue because playing the hot and cold of the old encounter designs made it possible to get through with about 15 competent people even if everyone else was dead on the floor. The difficulty came from the clusterfuck of logistics from herding that many cats to begin with. If Carbine found the magic formula to make 40 man raid content engaging then hell, more power to them.
@Narbus NCsoft is only publishing. My only real concern over that is whether or not Carbine enjoys the same level of autonomy that ANet did throughout Guild Wars 2's development. And if so if they're up to the task.
Beezel on
PSN: Waybackkidd
"...only mights and maybes."
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
As an aside topic because I was discussing this with some friends tonight:
I'm hoping this game launches as B2P with some sort of reasonable cash shop/freemium option. I'd hate to see it launch on a sub model, flounder and then go through that painful transition to f2p where journalists usually mark it down as a failure.
Can a sub model on a new IP mmo survive these days?
IMO the age of the monthly sub MMO is largely over. Cash shop done right is the way to go. It gets you the people who would try out your game but not if they have to pay a sub fee, and it basically lets people who really love your game pay more than $15 a month to subsidize the people who play without spending cash shop funds.
Joshmvii on
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Especially now that there are good recent games that are either B2P or F2P. I could see a lot of Wildstar players moving back to GW2 after the initial enchantment wears off if it costs $15 per month.
It is actually not the 40-man raid content that has me concerned, though valid points are being raised in the, "why waste dev time" on it. So long as its a challenge mode or whatever and not a content-gate, that's fine.
I dislike the 40v40 warplots idea. Don't get me wrong, I love me some warplots and large scale pvp, but the idea of it being part of a system that will limit who can participate bugs the hell out of me. Particularly for a group like ours, who is going to have a lot of people, everyone will want to be a part of the fighting for the Gulag but only a core group will be able to.
On the flip side, don't have access to a guild that can field 40 people on demand? Then you are not participating in the warplot battles. Essentially, the 40v40 system is not flexible enough and is shooting itself in the foot. It's a problem with any game that allows big bases to be built, and until a server/engine/whatever can let those places exist in an open, DaoC frontier/GW2 WvW like map that is not a hard-capped BG instance, I believe we will continue to see these features not work in a purely mechanical sense.
That said, our Gulag is still going to be absolutely excellent and I will still be keeping this game on my radar, but it looks like some of the basic theory/foundational thinking on this project is dated and overlooking previous examples of why these ideas, cool as they are, do not practically work.
Or maybe they have taken these sources, distilled them, and will alleviate all my concerns with some revolutionary idea. That would be the best. But you would think they would start by mentioning that and somewhat foresee the concern that may pop up when they announce 40 man content.
Also, are they going with the MMO Trinity approach? I dislike the Trinity dependence more with each new iteration.
From their class description pages, it looks like they are going with the Trinity approach with each class being able to fill 2 of the 3.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
the way skills work is that you have a limited action set of about 10 skills but there's a bunch of skills for each class that makes you build a "deck" for whatever it is you want to do
drunkenpandarenSlapping all the goblin hamIn the top laneRegistered Userregular
Why don't they just have Raids that scale to the amount of people in the raid over 10 or something? That way if you only have say 15 people, you can still go out and raid instead of being required to carry 20 people into one.
Posts
The Department of Opposition. They oppose.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Also, yes, Dominion ho!
Also, also, I got >two< tshirts from Carbine and only one from Bethesda - I am susceptible to bribes, your move Elderscrolls Online
"I do say Lord Gotzmonei, there seem to be some ragamuffins at our gates."
"My word, Count Hisgould I do believe you're right."
"Shall I fire the diamond cannons?"
"Post-haste my good man! Whichever one of the urchins survives shall be able to afford his own... I assume hovel."
"Quite generous of you ol'bean!"
"Indubitably Count Hisgould, charity begins at home et cetera, et cetera."
What A Nice Gulag our warplot will have.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
That shall be it's name, and we will make it the prettiest gulag this side of the galaxy.
What the hell are these earrings attached to?
"...only mights and maybes."
Killitkillitkillit.
I'LL BE ALL ALONE OVER THERE.
Dev confirmed features:
20 and 40 man raids
40 v 40 warplot battles
Warplots function as their own battleground outside the battleground system (The two opposing warplots combine to form the battlefield) and a ranked win means you have a chance to take stuff from your opponent's warplot.
There's a "circle" feature, (Circle of friends) that allows players to gain certain bonuses for grouping with friends that may not necessarily be in their guild.
also: "I can't really get into the mechanics of it, because our main healer hasn't been announced yet" which I hope translates into something more than just Space Priest. Supposedly there are going to be skillshot heals that lay down telegraphs like the dps classes.
"...only mights and maybes."
One of the previous videos (gamespot one I believe) the guy mentioned a healer "pooping" out healing stuff I believe. Made me think of Tera Mystics
Also, I know housing was their new hot release but I am hoping they put as much thought and detail into all the other areas of the game. Housing is not a system that makes me too excited but all these videos feel like that's all they want to talk about (I know I know probably all they are allowed to talk about)
Join us, we have cognac.
He will have plenty of company with him (in our Gulag).
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Of course! Who else would we have shovel fuel in to our furnaces?
edit- Also the more I hear about Warplots the sexier the system sounds!
I saw sword spinning!
VRRRRRRR
Guilds will only exist as giant amalgamations of random people because you need hundreds of members to accomplish anything, it seems.
As far as the 40 man raids are concerned the dev in that video stated that they're not tying major narrative content to their raids so people that don't want to get involved in that don't really have to in order to see the story. 20 man raids are going to be the standard and 40-man activities purely for the challenge because apparently they intend to make that content fairly difficult.
"...only mights and maybes."
Based on what the devs are saying the base game is mostly feature complete at this point. Apparently they're at the stage now where it's mostly content creation and sub systems/squashing game killing bugs along with tying it all together so the systems interact with each other but that was a couple of months ago. The low level combat looks like fairly standard stuff but glimpses of higher level content they've created looks actually kind of fresh.
I'm actually more curious as to when they plan on releasing this outside of the "When it's done" stuff because you can tell that stuff to the press but shareholders aren't going to let an answer like that fly.
"...only mights and maybes."
"...only mights and maybes."
Yeah this seems like a pretty shocking step back, honestly.
40 man content wasn't just onerous to organize, it was incredibly fucking boring! Generally speaking in MMO combat, the more people are present, the less individual strategy and contribution actually matters. Well, unless you want your content to just be a permanent impassable wall anyway.
Also 40 mans? Ugh.
Splitting up a 40-man into a bunch of smaller groups might work, but then you run into issues dividing up a 20-man. If the intent is to have eight self-sufficient 5-man groups in the 40-man, then either the encounter needs to be substantially different for 20-man (see: development time), or it'll just not work very well (8 tanks, 8 healers, 4 DPS!)
@Narbus NCsoft is only publishing. My only real concern over that is whether or not Carbine enjoys the same level of autonomy that ANet did throughout Guild Wars 2's development. And if so if they're up to the task.
"...only mights and maybes."
"...only mights and maybes."
I'm hoping this game launches as B2P with some sort of reasonable cash shop/freemium option. I'd hate to see it launch on a sub model, flounder and then go through that painful transition to f2p where journalists usually mark it down as a failure.
Can a sub model on a new IP mmo survive these days?
"...only mights and maybes."
I think if they can deliver on some of these lofty promises it could be worth a 15.
"...only mights and maybes."
Anet supported GW2 with a B2P model and that's doing great.
Almost every sub MMO that has come out in recent years has floundered.
It seems like the most basic business decision to go with a B2P model.
I dislike the 40v40 warplots idea. Don't get me wrong, I love me some warplots and large scale pvp, but the idea of it being part of a system that will limit who can participate bugs the hell out of me. Particularly for a group like ours, who is going to have a lot of people, everyone will want to be a part of the fighting for the Gulag but only a core group will be able to.
On the flip side, don't have access to a guild that can field 40 people on demand? Then you are not participating in the warplot battles. Essentially, the 40v40 system is not flexible enough and is shooting itself in the foot. It's a problem with any game that allows big bases to be built, and until a server/engine/whatever can let those places exist in an open, DaoC frontier/GW2 WvW like map that is not a hard-capped BG instance, I believe we will continue to see these features not work in a purely mechanical sense.
That said, our Gulag is still going to be absolutely excellent and I will still be keeping this game on my radar, but it looks like some of the basic theory/foundational thinking on this project is dated and overlooking previous examples of why these ideas, cool as they are, do not practically work.
Or maybe they have taken these sources, distilled them, and will alleviate all my concerns with some revolutionary idea. That would be the best. But you would think they would start by mentioning that and somewhat foresee the concern that may pop up when they announce 40 man content.
Also, are they going with the MMO Trinity approach? I dislike the Trinity dependence more with each new iteration.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
"...only mights and maybes."
Steam: pandas_gota_gun