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Diablo 3:Economics- It's not rocket science.

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Posts

  • HooverFanHooverFan NCRegistered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    Derrick wrote: »
    So, do you guys play the game anymore or just the various Auction Houses?

    Gaming the system is all anyone talks about in this thread.

    I do not play the game-game very much anymore.

    1) It's not profitable: The odds of getting a legendary / rare that will sell for TeXa$ are incredibly low. This is good from a game balance perspective, but incredibly shitty from a player's economic perspective. It's gotten to the point where legendary drops do nothing for me other than prompt the anticipation of disappointment.

    2) It's not fun: Clearing my Act 3 run over and over and over and over and over to grind XP is neither fun nor interesting. I enjoy mindless grinds, but there are different kinds. For me, running Act 3 in D3 is less compelling than fishing in WoW.

    3) I'm still pissed that it isn't D2: What was nice about D2 was that you could spend hours farming mephisto / baal / pindle, or you could hop on to quickly farm a boss a few times. D3 doesn't have that 'quick farm' option. If I sit down to play I anticipate the grind to get five stacks, then the seemingly required utilization of those five stacks, then the ending identification phase that results in disappointment, vendoring, and starting over.

    4) There's no need to level: Once one hits a particular gear threshold there are diminishing returns for any improvements. I do not get much out of increasing my MP level, so there is little need to increase my dps / survivability. Combine that with the economic concerns, and in most cases it is difficult to mentally justify purchasing an upgrade as opposed to selling the gold. I could spend about $10 worth of gold to increase my farming by an MP level, but why bother?

    5) Playing reminds me of how shitty the game is: After I play for about an hour I find myself to be very irritated. Part of that is the disappointment from having built this game up, in my mind, for years prior to release. This was supposed to be like D2 but awesomer. I poured months of /played time into D2 and enjoyed every minute. So I expected D3 to be that same sort of thing. But it's just...not. Playing the game for any extended period of time just reinforces how god damned terrible it is, so I end up getting frustrated at its inadequacies, check my auctions, and then log out.

    Now I'm irritated again.

    God damn Jay Wilson.


    Edit: Oh, I forgot the biggest one.

    6) There is no fucking meta game. One of the primary joys of D2 was the meta game: Reading websites, looking at builds, exploiting farming tricks. That's what is fun: Take a system, learn it, exploit it. That was one of the best parts of D2. But in D3 there is no meta game. The classes and skills are bland, in the sense that they lack any exploitable tricks, and the farming meta is incredibly simple and obvious to most players. They removed the MF metagame. They took out the treasure goblin exploits. Right now the only meta game to be played is gem / gold flipping, and that game is on a 36 hour timer....which basically turns D3 into one of those Facebook games that can only be played once a day while you wait for resources to generate.

    Fuck Jay Wilson.

    Dear J... if you want D2, go fucking play D2 already and shut the hell up.

    I've seriously had it with this BS of wanting D3 to be D2. If you don't like it, fine, nobody's forcing you to play it and D2 is still available to play so go play it, but everybody's WAY PAST TIRED of hearing about how you want this game to be D2 WHEN THE REST OF US DON'T CARE AND ARE FUCKING FINE WITH MOST ASPECTS.

    Seriously, shit or get off the fucking pot already.

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  • Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Uh, is this some new (seriously dumb) AH thing I've missed?
    Bought a few crafting materials, but instead of getting them in the "completed" list they only show up under "bids" with the acompanying 24h wait, even though they're listed as "won".

    Edit: Ok, closed down the AH and open it up again and now I had the materials. Strange, but settled I guess.

    Panda4You on
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    This music is being (preemptively) removed from the public domain; it's being stolen from the people."

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  • kraughmarkraughmar Registered User regular
    Back right after release I had many issues with _J_ and his robotish behaviour. These days, I find myself agreeing more and more with him. Especially point #6. I didn't even get into Paragon levels that much. By that point I was already getting tired of the grind, and the ridiculously low chances of ever getting good gear without shelling out effectively real money put me off.

    So it is funny to think about, but ultimately why I am posting now and why I am doubleclicking on Diablo III.exe is because I can easily buy and sell on the AH and make money. So I am playing a $60 database-sorting game. And yes, setting your own auction lengths would be amazing. That would probably be the #1 best change.

  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    I just want more mob density in the other acts already.

    mcdermottforty
  • Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    I just want more mob density in the other acts already.
    If this were an option alá MPL somehow, I'd be delighted! A3 is the only place where you can really nonstop steamroll hordes of mofos, and even there you'll often wish there simply was more dudes available.

    Panda4You on
    "In this discussion of copyright it's actually appropriate to call it theft:
    This music is being (preemptively) removed from the public domain; it's being stolen from the people."

    Conservative ideology is a cancer on liberal democracy and it's getting close to terminal.
    - Shryke
  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    Derrick wrote: »
    So, do you guys play the game anymore or just the various Auction Houses?

    Gaming the system is all anyone talks about in this thread.

    I do not play the game-game very much anymore.

    1) It's not profitable: The odds of getting a legendary / rare that will sell for TeXa$ are incredibly low. This is good from a game balance perspective, but incredibly shitty from a player's economic perspective. It's gotten to the point where legendary drops do nothing for me other than prompt the anticipation of disappointment.

    2) It's not fun: Clearing my Act 3 run over and over and over and over and over to grind XP is neither fun nor interesting. I enjoy mindless grinds, but there are different kinds. For me, running Act 3 in D3 is less compelling than fishing in WoW.

    3) I'm still pissed that it isn't D2: What was nice about D2 was that you could spend hours farming mephisto / baal / pindle, or you could hop on to quickly farm a boss a few times. D3 doesn't have that 'quick farm' option. If I sit down to play I anticipate the grind to get five stacks, then the seemingly required utilization of those five stacks, then the ending identification phase that results in disappointment, vendoring, and starting over.

    4) There's no need to level: Once one hits a particular gear threshold there are diminishing returns for any improvements. I do not get much out of increasing my MP level, so there is little need to increase my dps / survivability. Combine that with the economic concerns, and in most cases it is difficult to mentally justify purchasing an upgrade as opposed to selling the gold. I could spend about $10 worth of gold to increase my farming by an MP level, but why bother?

    5) Playing reminds me of how shitty the game is: After I play for about an hour I find myself to be very irritated. Part of that is the disappointment from having built this game up, in my mind, for years prior to release. This was supposed to be like D2 but awesomer. I poured months of /played time into D2 and enjoyed every minute. So I expected D3 to be that same sort of thing. But it's just...not. Playing the game for any extended period of time just reinforces how god damned terrible it is, so I end up getting frustrated at its inadequacies, check my auctions, and then log out.

    Now I'm irritated again.

    God damn Jay Wilson.


    Edit: Oh, I forgot the biggest one.

    6) There is no fucking meta game. One of the primary joys of D2 was the meta game: Reading websites, looking at builds, exploiting farming tricks. That's what is fun: Take a system, learn it, exploit it. That was one of the best parts of D2. But in D3 there is no meta game. The classes and skills are bland, in the sense that they lack any exploitable tricks, and the farming meta is incredibly simple and obvious to most players. They removed the MF metagame. They took out the treasure goblin exploits. Right now the only meta game to be played is gem / gold flipping, and that game is on a 36 hour timer....which basically turns D3 into one of those Facebook games that can only be played once a day while you wait for resources to generate.

    Fuck Jay Wilson.

    Let me see if I can summarize your problems:

    I've played this game so much that my gear is so awesome that I'm great at farming and it's now difficult to upgrade!

    Roving all over act 3? Super duper boring. Killing the same boss (or better yet) helpless treasure goblins over and over: so fun!

    15 minutes to farm an act is way too much time investment! Who has that kind of contiguous free time?

    I hate this stupid game! I'm only going to play it maybe 100-200 more hours TOPS.

    Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
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  • sumwarsumwar Registered User regular
    It takes me 10 minutes to do an alkaizer run not including the time to identify loot, it's just repetitive that's all. But I got 800+ hours of this game and it doesn't have a subscription fee so I'm not expecting much new content until the next expansion. Most 60 dollar games don't give hundreds of hours of entertainment, I feel like people expect too much out of Diablo 3 in terms of the quantity of content.

    Take a break, come back next expansion.

    forty
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    You guys realize that removing the 36 hour timer would kill gold sales, right?

    Because then you'd have people automating the listing to just relist billion stacks ending every hour. Then you'd NEVER sell any. Only reason you sell any now is because it's a pain in the ass so most people (both on the casual and hardcore sploiter end) don't bother.

    SkutSkut
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    And honestly, while sometimes he goes overboard, I'm with J. There are a lot of minor flaws, and some major design choices, that really reduce the enjoyment of this game in the long term.

    Which is fine, in the grand scheme. I have other games. And I'll be back to this one as expansions and content patches drop. I already quit once (before paragon levels), from burnout, and I've had fun since coming back. I see that happening again soon. Right now I just want to get a softcore 60 in every class.

    I really should play some hardcore too. It used to be hard, because I'd know that none of my gear could ever be sold legitimately for real money. Now that I realize that 99.999% of softcore drops are worthless anyway, some high stakes gameplay seems like it might be refreshing.

    And seriously, since coming back I think I've had like maybe a dozen drops worth any significant amount, for a total of maybe 60M gold. Pretty much all my "wealth" has been made first by gem crafting, and now by gem flipping.

    Dyvim Tvar
  • KorrorKorror Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Eh, I'm still playing an enjoying myself though I probably don't haven't put the time that J has put into the game. I'm only around ~300 hours in and I still feel like I'm enjoying the game. I find it relaxing to log on, kill a few monsters and do a short farming run. The core gameplay is still fun for me and killing goatmen has yet to get old.

    I think my enjoyment of the game comes down to my low-key approach to it. The other games I spent alot of time in are league of legends and world of warcraft and I play both of these very competitively. I care very much about my raiding progress in WoW and how well I play in LoL but I don't really have such a hardcore attitude towards D3. I run a semi-suboptimal build and I try to see how high of MP I can go with it. I don't expect to make $texas from farming or hit pl100 so D3 becomes the game I play when I don't want to stress out over my fun.

    Korror on
    Battlenet ID: NullPointer
    MrBeensforty
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Korror wrote: »
    Eh, I'm still playing an enjoying myself though I probably don't haven't put the time that J has put into the game. I'm only around ~300 hours in and I still feel like I'm enjoying the game. I find it relaxing to log on, kill a few monsters and do a short farming run. The core gameplay is still fun for me and killing goatmen has yet to get old.

    I think my enjoyment of the game comes down to my low-key approach to it. The other games I spent alot of time in are league of legends and world of warcraft and I play both of these very competitively. I care very much about my raiding progress in WoW and how well I play in LoL but I don't really have such a hardcore attitude towards D3. I run a semi-suboptimal build and I try to see how high of MP I can go with it. I don't expect to make $texas from farming or hit pl100 so D3 becomes the game I play when I don't want to stress out over my fun.

    This seems healthy.

    forty
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Derrick wrote: »
    So, do you guys play the game anymore or just the various Auction Houses?

    Gaming the system is all anyone talks about in this thread.

    I do not play the game-game very much anymore.

    1) It's not profitable: The odds of getting a legendary / rare that will sell for TeXa$ are incredibly low. This is good from a game balance perspective, but incredibly shitty from a player's economic perspective. It's gotten to the point where legendary drops do nothing for me other than prompt the anticipation of disappointment.

    2) It's not fun: Clearing my Act 3 run over and over and over and over and over to grind XP is neither fun nor interesting. I enjoy mindless grinds, but there are different kinds. For me, running Act 3 in D3 is less compelling than fishing in WoW.

    3) I'm still pissed that it isn't D2: What was nice about D2 was that you could spend hours farming mephisto / baal / pindle, or you could hop on to quickly farm a boss a few times. D3 doesn't have that 'quick farm' option. If I sit down to play I anticipate the grind to get five stacks, then the seemingly required utilization of those five stacks, then the ending identification phase that results in disappointment, vendoring, and starting over.

    4) There's no need to level: Once one hits a particular gear threshold there are diminishing returns for any improvements. I do not get much out of increasing my MP level, so there is little need to increase my dps / survivability. Combine that with the economic concerns, and in most cases it is difficult to mentally justify purchasing an upgrade as opposed to selling the gold. I could spend about $10 worth of gold to increase my farming by an MP level, but why bother?

    5) Playing reminds me of how shitty the game is: After I play for about an hour I find myself to be very irritated. Part of that is the disappointment from having built this game up, in my mind, for years prior to release. This was supposed to be like D2 but awesomer. I poured months of /played time into D2 and enjoyed every minute. So I expected D3 to be that same sort of thing. But it's just...not. Playing the game for any extended period of time just reinforces how god damned terrible it is, so I end up getting frustrated at its inadequacies, check my auctions, and then log out.

    Now I'm irritated again.

    God damn Jay Wilson.


    Edit: Oh, I forgot the biggest one.

    6) There is no fucking meta game. One of the primary joys of D2 was the meta game: Reading websites, looking at builds, exploiting farming tricks. That's what is fun: Take a system, learn it, exploit it. That was one of the best parts of D2. But in D3 there is no meta game. The classes and skills are bland, in the sense that they lack any exploitable tricks, and the farming meta is incredibly simple and obvious to most players. They removed the MF metagame. They took out the treasure goblin exploits. Right now the only meta game to be played is gem / gold flipping, and that game is on a 36 hour timer....which basically turns D3 into one of those Facebook games that can only be played once a day while you wait for resources to generate.

    Fuck Jay Wilson.

    Let me see if I can summarize your problems:

    I've played this game so much that my gear is so awesome that I'm great at farming and it's now difficult to upgrade!

    Roving all over act 3? Super duper boring. Killing the same boss (or better yet) helpless treasure goblins over and over: so fun!

    15 minutes to farm an act is way too much time investment! Who has that kind of contiguous free time?

    I hate this stupid game! I'm only going to play it maybe 100-200 more hours TOPS.

    His gear isn't even that great IIRC - he stopped upgrading it so he could sell everything on the RMAH instead.

  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    J's gear is extremely budget, I imagine with that combination of class + gear it's not very fun to farm, but that's mostly a problem with demon hunters

    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
    forty
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    Yeah, I hit burnout a few weeks ago. There was some incentive in doing Alk runs where at least I was finding legendaries from time to time, and the hope that I could sell some of those for better gear. But nothing is moving right now, so I've pretty much given up on that.

    Might come back to it later for 1.08 if it's a significant change, or for D3X.

    mcdermott
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Yeah, any way you slice it I got more than my $60 worth out of it (ignoring that I've cashed out almost that much as well).

    I'll probably putter around getting my last couple characters up to 60, then take a break or play the occasional HC. I've still not even beat HC on normal.

  • NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    Being able to freely travel to any waypoint in any act at any time would go a VERY long way in making farming fun again for me. Removing the repetitive story bits could be a welcome side effect, or even it's own improvement.

    As it is, having 5 60s and getting a hellfire ring pretty much defeated all motivation. I had some fun leveling a monk with the ring, but she'd have been no different than my other monk so that didn't last long.

    At least they're recognizing issues though. Diablo 3 may be a good game soon™.

    Battletag: Noggin#1936 || PSN: Noggin37 || Steam
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    you leveled up 5 level 60 characters

    but diablo 3 is a bad game?

    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
    fortySpaffycaligynefob
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    They should definitely add a free roam mode D2 style, that was a glaring oversight. 1.08's density changes should help a lot though, not just to equalize the acts but also the zones within each act.

    forty
  • NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    you leveled up 5 level 60 characters

    but diablo 3 is a bad game?

    I'll clarify. It was fun, I got my $60 worth and then some. It's not a bad game, but it's not great. Endgame wise, the carrot on a stick isn't appealing enough.

    Battletag: Noggin#1936 || PSN: Noggin37 || Steam
    mcdermott_J_
  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Yeah the whole idea of "it's just not worth upgrading my character, I'm going to RMAH everything instead" is baffling to me. Did you miss the fact that it's not really worth RMAH-ing everything either, given how little money you get for your time?

    As for my approach, I've set up all 5 classes with gear that can farm at least MP0. Every once in a while I do a few runs with whatever class I feel like bashing monsters with.

    36775839.jpg

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  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    I'm the same way. I got all my characters to 60 and found that I really only like the WD, Barb and wizard. So those are the only ones I play. Definitely got my $60 out of Diablo 3. I can't say I got the same value out of D2.

    Battle.net: Phender#1108 -- Steam: Phender -- PS4: Phender12 -- Origin: ANormalDuck
    forty
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    Yeah the whole idea of "it's just not worth upgrading my character, I'm going to RMAH everything instead" is baffling to me. Did you miss the fact that it's not really worth RMAH-ing everything either, given how little money you get for your time?

    As for my approach, I've set up all 5 classes with gear that can farm at least MP0. Every once in a while I do a few runs with whatever class I feel like bashing monsters with.

    36775839.jpg

    I'll say that some of the issues with the game make slaying demons a lot less fun that it could, and should, be.

    But yeah, at a certain point if you aren't enjoying it you need to consider jumping off the treadmill.

    Noggin
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Matz wrote: »
    Now though I am almost wishing they bring back invulnerable minions!
    Shut your whore mouth.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • KorrorKorror Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Matz wrote: »
    Now though I am almost wishing they bring back invulnerable minions!
    Shut your whore mouth.

    I sometimes wish for the return of 1.00 inferno where it was a major accomplishment just to get to act 3 let alone finish the game, where legendaries weren't automatic best in slot items and where we got excited over blue 800 dps weapons.

    Then I smack myself in the head and remind myself how brutally unfun inferno was when the game was first released with horrific elite packs that regenerated to full when you died, enrage timers, invincible minion packs, massive repair bills, worthless drops unless you were in act 3. The game has come a long ways and is much better than it was on release.

    Battlenet ID: NullPointer
    mcdermottforty
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Korror wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Matz wrote: »
    Now though I am almost wishing they bring back invulnerable minions!
    Shut your whore mouth.

    I sometimes wish for the return of 1.00 inferno where it was a major accomplishment just to get to act 3 let alone finish the game, where legendaries weren't automatic best in slot items and where we got excited over blue 800 dps weapons.

    Then I smack myself in the head and remind myself how brutally unfun inferno was when the game was first released with horrific elite packs that regenerated to full when you died, enrage timers, invincible minion packs, massive repair bills, worthless drops unless you were in act 3. The game has come a long ways and is much better than it was on release.

    Correction: No massive repair bills, remember Tyrael on the bridge?

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Yeah, I remember paying 1M for a blue bow, and being excited at drops that I'd not even go out of my way to pick up now.

    I also remember not being able to solo act three, let alone farm it.

    forty
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    you leveled up 5 level 60 characters

    but diablo 3 is a bad game?
    Easily bottom of the barrel of all the games I've played for 1,000+ hours.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    mcdermottMordaRazgrom
  • WydrionWydrion BLBEUEBLA! BLBEUEBLA! Registered User regular
    Here comes another fresh round of 'play time = game's worth' arguments.

    Thought experiment:
    If you play a shitty free game for 20 minutes then mathematically that game is infinitely more worth your money than spending 60 bucks on Diablo 3 to play it for 800 hours.

    Two can play this game, nerds!

    _J_
  • sumwarsumwar Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    you leveled up 5 level 60 characters

    but diablo 3 is a bad game?
    Easily bottom of the barrel of all the games I've played for 1,000+ hours.

    hahaha I love you.

    forty
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    Yeah the whole idea of "it's just not worth upgrading my character, I'm going to RMAH everything instead" is baffling to me. Did you miss the fact that it's not really worth RMAH-ing everything either, given how little money you get for your time?

    When presented with many gearing options, one converts the price of the upgrade to dollars, and then discerns whether they would rather have the $ or the upgrade.
    $ can be used for beer, rent, LoL skins, etc.
    gear can be used for...maybe increasing my MP farming level by 1...if I buy another upgrade to compliment it. But why bother increasing my MP level?

    As Noggin said, the endgame carrot / stick is quite shitty. Right now $ is a better carrot than gear upgrades.

  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    yes that is why i always just suck dicks at the back of olive garden instead of playing diablo 3, because $ > gear

    fortymcdermottShen
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Wydrion wrote: »
    Here comes another fresh round of 'play time = game's worth' arguments.

    Thought experiment:
    If you play a shitty free game for 20 minutes then mathematically that game is infinitely more worth your money than spending 60 bucks on Diablo 3 to play it for 800 hours.

    Two can play this game, nerds!

    I don't really see any reason to compare the monetary value of games that I'm playing. I already bought it, who cares about that now? When I have a choice to make about which game to spend my time playing, I'll pick the one that seems the most fun at that moment. The fact that D3 has been that game hundreds of times means it must be a pretty great game.

    forty
  • WydrionWydrion BLBEUEBLA! BLBEUEBLA! Registered User regular
    yes that is why i always just suck dicks at the back of olive garden instead of playing diablo 3, because $ > gear

    Roxanne.

    You don't have to put on the red light.

  • MordaRazgromMordaRazgrom Морда Разгром Ruling the Taffer KingdomRegistered User regular
    yes that is why i always just suck dicks at the back of olive garden instead of playing diablo 3, because $ > gear

    And then use that money to buy RMAH items?
    Flamewalkers - current bidding price is a striptease and a cuddle.

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  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    yes that is why i always just suck dicks at the back of olive garden instead of playing diablo 3, because $ > gear

    I imagine that I make more money from D3 than I would make sucking dick.

    But I wouldn't want to spend either my D3 or dick sucking money on gear.

    Because there's no fucking point to play at higher MP levels.

    Wydrion
  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    Some people play at MP10 for fun. It's a crazy notion, I know, but those people exist.

    Battle.net: Phender#1108 -- Steam: Phender -- PS4: Phender12 -- Origin: ANormalDuck
    fortymcdermott
  • MordaRazgromMordaRazgrom Морда Разгром Ruling the Taffer KingdomRegistered User regular
    Fun!? Fun has no place in the Diablo vocabulary!

    Monster Hunter Tri code/username: 1MF42Z (Morda)
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    forty_J_
  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Oh right, my bad. I'll go back to slamming my dick in my desk drawer(playing Diablo ;) ).

    Beyond Normal on
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  • MordaRazgromMordaRazgrom Морда Разгром Ruling the Taffer KingdomRegistered User regular
    My Diablo 3 play-style is actually somewhat similar to that.

    I have been desperately trying to run a DoT Witch Doctor. The main point is to Haunt+Locust then keep them CC'ed through Fear, Confusion, Toad of Hugeness, and Zombie Wall. I think your desk drawer adventures would probably cause me less pain!

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    Steam Username: MordaRazgrom
    WoW/Diablo 3 Battlenet Battletag: MordaRazgrom#1755
    Me and my wife have a gamer YouTube page if interested www.youtube.com/TeamMarriage
    Beyond Normal
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