LGBTT: It's Raining DOMA Rulings! (It's for Thread)

Atomika · April 2013

Southern Maid actually makes the best regular-style doughnuts, but there's only one place to get the original recipe, and there's only so many good reasons to be in Shreveport, Louisiana.

Cinders · April 2013

Kana wrote: »

They're just terrible donuts!

There is just too much damn sugar.

shryke · April 2013

That's all I remember about Krispy Kreme when they were here in Canada. (or first here, apparently they are still a few isolated places)

It was like it was soaked overnight in a vat of liquid sugar.

ArbitraryDescriptor · April 2013

Cinders wrote: »

Kana wrote: »

They're just terrible donuts!

There is just too much damn sugar.

Oh, the glazed ones? I will admit that there is something unsettling about a donut that melts in your mouth. I can't eat one without worrying my teeth are all going to be replaced with diabetes. The cakes and jellies, however, are cakes and jellies.

Seriously though, LGBT stuff, and stuff.

Did you know that latinos are up to 49% in favor of gay marriage (43 opposed)? It's true, Google just said so.

Atomika · April 2013

MSNBC had some Republican guy on today saying that the surge in Black support for the gay community was trickery due to misleading pollsters asking complicated questions.

That chicken be well and truly fucked at this point.

Viskod · April 2013

Well the head of the Catholic League just said flat out in an interview today that marriage has nothing to do with love and has nothing to do with two people being happy together.

Atomika · April 2013

Viskod wrote: »

Well the head of the Catholic League just said flat out in an interview today that marriage has nothing to do with love and has nothing to do with two people being happy together.

Of course he said that. He's catholic.

Viskod · April 2013

Oh I'm sure there are happy Catholics.

Somewhere.

jothki · April 2013

Viskod wrote: »

Oh I'm sure there are happy Catholics.

Somewhere.

There are plenty, they're just obligated to constantly feel guilty about it.

Captain Carrot · April 2013

Bill Donahue is a toolbox.

Kana · April 2013

Atomic Ross wrote: »

MSNBC had some Republican guy on today saying that the surge in Black support for the gay community was trickery due to misleading pollsters asking complicated questions.

That fried chicken be well and truly fucked at this point.

C'mon lets keep the proper republican nomenclature in place

MuddBudd · April 2013

While it sounds like he was being disruptive, it also sounds like he had good reason to be, and was then treated incredibly harshly for it.

DIFFERING ACCOUNTS EMERGE IN STORY OF GAY MAN ARRESTED AT PATIENT'S BEDSIDE AT KANSAS CITY HOSPITAL

And some very good bullet points

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/04/12/1857741/what-actually-happened-to-that-same-sex-couple-in-the-missouri-hospital/?mobile=nc

Some stuff that stands out...

Roger Gorley said he just wanted to be there for Allen, his partner of almost five years. When he arrived at the medical center on Tuesday, Allen’s brother confronted him and told him to “back off.”

Gorley said he had the power of attorney and had every right to be there. However, HCA said Gorley did not present proof of “power of attorney” during that particular visit. “‘This is my brother — I will take care of him,’ and I said ‘No, this is my husband I have taken care of him for some time,’” Gorley said.

Allen has specifically excluded his family from having any say over his medical decisions because they have not been understanding of the impact of his depression.
Not only have Roger and Allen granted each other power of attorney, but they are known throughout the hospital as a proud gay couple because they are regularly there for Allen’s treatments.

Amanda is their daughter, it seems.

Amanda was taking care of Allen while Roger was at work at Tuesday, but when they returned home from a few errands, Allen’s brother Lee and sister Pat were waiting at the door with paramedics and police. Due to Allen’s sluggish state, the police determined he was a “danger to himself” and decided to take him to the hospital against his will. Rather than taking him to St. Luke’s Hospital in Lee’s Summit, the local hospital where his regular doctors are, they took him to the Research Medical Center in Kansas City, which he only goes to for his ECT. They ignored Amanda’s attempts to explain Allen’s medical needs and procedures.
Amanda called her father, Roger, and urged him to get to Allen’s side immediately. When he arrived at the hospital, Lee was also there.

The nurse informed Roger that because of his agitated state, he needed to leave. When he explained that he intended to stay with his husband, she replied, “I know who you two are. You need to leave.” Refusing to acknowledge their legal relationship, she called the police to have Roger forcibly removed. Allen, who was in and out of consciousness, objected as he was able, saying, “I want him here.”

The police assumed because Roger is gay that he must have HIV. The brutal struggle had drawn blood, and one officer was so disturbed that he insisted on using gloves to handle Roger and refused to even take back his handcuffs.

With these details, both the hospital’s and police’s actions seem more suspect, not less. At the foundation of the story remains the fact that Roger and Allen’s relationship was treated as inferior. Because they did not have a state-recognized marriage, they were regarded as legal strangers despite even having set up the available legal protections for each other. Roger, in turn, was subjected not just to discrimination but police brutality and legal consequences. This tragic story speaks volumes about the consequences of continuing to deny same-sex couples the right to marry and how they continue to be treated as second-class citizens. Notably, not one conservative organization has mentioned this story since it broke.

So if this is all true, the patients family, whom he had forbidden to make medical decisions on his behalf, somehow convinced the police to go over to his house and force him into the hospital, where they attempted to shut out his panicked husband. Family meddling at it's finest. The husband loses his temper and things get out of hand.

Sounds like there will be a government investigation, I hope there are an army of federal agents mobilizing to put the fear of god into those police officers, at the very least.

Kana · April 2013

The police assumed because Roger is gay that he must have HIV. The brutal struggle had drawn blood, and one officer was so disturbed that he insisted on using gloves to handle Roger and refused to even take back his handcuffs.

This seems like a pretty silly way of phrasing the police's motivation, unless they've got some more evidence. I mean I've done a (very small) amount of bouncing, and even I know that you assume ANY blood has HIV / Hepatitis / Flesh Dissolving Acid. Of course you put on gloves! And even from the daughter's description it doesn't sound like the police used any kind of excessive force, she's pretty much describing a standard case of handcuffing a dude physically resisting officers.

Whatever was going on with his family is one thing, but the hospital is just trying to treat the guy, and if a husband comes in - of any sexual persuasion - and starts fighting in-laws, yelling at nurses, and interfering with medical care, then what do you expect the hospital to do besides remove him? And for police and paramedics to agree that he needed to be hospitalized? That's something more than just a "sluggish state".

This just doesn't pass the Crazy Person Account of Events smell test to me.

Nocren · April 2013

Doesn't explain why they took him to a different hospital, unless he was unresponsive at the time.

But ignoring the daughter who was trying to explain the situation? That's not right. Having worked at a retirement home and having to respond to random emergencies as a security guard, the family is the first people you talk to (if possible).

Somethings aren't adding up, but I'm still erring on the side of "bigots and geese" instead of "general outburst".

Invisible · April 2013

Eh, it sounds like a combo. The blood thing is standard procedure; blood is always treated as hazmat. Allen was in and out of consciousness. So he probably had little say in where he was going and something had to be going on for him to not be able to refuse. My biggest question would be why the fire department wasn't called. The police shouldn't be transferring a patient like that to the hospital without at least a paramedic examining him.

The hospital is another issue. They didn't have proof of his legal rights. It's very easy to be sued for violating various medical laws and most hospitals are going to do whatever is more likely to protect them.

Is it a symptom of not recognizing same sex marriage? Absolutely. Do I think his family are bunch of bigots who escalated the situation? Absolutely. I'm just not certain that was the case of everyone else without further proof.

Mill · April 2013

A couple of things.

-Yes, in any line of public work, you should always be concerned about getting any blood from others on you since you don't know if they have something bad that can be transmitted or not through blood. That said:

The police assumed because Roger is gay that he must have HIV.

That is bigotry and someone's head should roll for that. I'm pretty sure if switched out "gay" for a gender, race or creed; we'd getting national news coverage about a bigoted Missouri cop being forced to resign for an inappropriate comment.

-I'm pretty sure the one dudes family can go right the fuck off and the police department is really fucked because it's implied that the family was excluded from making medical decisions with special paperwork that doesn't hinge on them being married. Furthermore, power of attorney was also set up to not rely on the state of Missouri being on the ball in terms of equality.

-I get the impression the hospital may also be screwed because if the guy goes there for ECT stuff, then they should have had a record of his partner having power of attorney.

Granted this all hinges on the info, we've gotten, being accurate. If it is, couple people's heads may be rolling; especially, since their removal can be justified by means that don't hinge on convincing a court that discrimination against gays is wrong (like ignoring the power of attorney bit).

Viskod · April 2013

You'd have thought that Allen, specifically saying who he wanted at his side would tell them which party to eject.

KalTorak · April 2013

Missouri hospital ex-employee on gay beating case: ‘It makes news because of the f*gs’

A former employee of the Missouri hospital accused of having a gay man arrested and allowing him to be beaten while removing him from his husband’s bedside used homophobic language to defend the facility’s decision online, Americablog reported on Friday.

Screenshots captured by Americablog show Paula Grant, a former employee at Research Medical Center, saying in a comment thread on WDAF-TV’s Facebook page that the hospital was not discriminating against Roger Gorley and his partner Allen Mansell.

“I worked at Research Medical for years and I know the security guys,” Grant wrote on Thursday night. “They follow strict guidelines, male or female, family or not, if you are causing a scene you will be removed. There are other patients, employees and visitors. It makes news because of the f*gs.”

Americablog reported that Grant’s profiles on LinkedIn and Facebook confirm that she used to work at Research Medical, and now works at another subsidiary of its parent company, Hospital Corporation of America.

When another commenter criticized Grant’s use of the slur, Grant replied, “I can speak how I want when I’m away from my job. Doesn’t mean the employees are all standing around and discriminating. Remember free speech? Good night.”

Neither post was on the thread as of 7:25 p.m. EST.

outstanding.

Shivahn · April 2013

"Remember free speech?"

Yeah you mean that thing that lets me call you a bigot?

It's pretty sweet, actually.

DevoutlyApathetic · April 2013

Remember when you had a job?

Edith Upwards · April 2013

Kana wrote: »

And even from the daughter's description it doesn't sound like the police used any kind of excessive force, she's pretty much describing a standard case of handcuffing a dude physically resisting officers.

Any use of force would have been excessive in this situation because force wasn't necessary, period.

They're proven bigots because any rational person would have taken both parties into separate waiting rooms and forced them to wait while they checked shit out.

Atomika · April 2013

This is looking more and more like the family staged this so the this conflict would occur.

I mean, obviously the partner has the responsibility to not lose his cool and start fighting people in the hospital, but it seems very much like the family manufactured this conflict to get just this result.

Which means that the joke is probably on them, once Allen gets out of the hospital. They should file a criminal restraining order against the family and a civil suit, as well. And possibly one against the city police and fire departments.

Edith Upwards · April 2013

rawstory wrote:

When Gorley told a nurse that he was Allen Mansell’s next of kin as she attempted to get him to leave the room, she allegedly replied, “I know who you two are. You need to leave,” then called police when Gorley grabbed the rail on his partner’s bed while refusing the order.

This is a slam-dunk if I ever saw one.

reVerse · April 2013

I guess we'll never know if what happened was because of bigotry.

Blackjack · April 2013

reVerse wrote: »

I guess we'll never know if what happened was because of bigotry.

If this guy was in an opposite sex marriage, this never would have happened so I think we know pretty solidly.

Delzhand · April 2013

In news that unfortunately surprises no-one

Wait, let's do this different. Just close your eyes and think of the most basic news story you can imagine where a transperson is involved.

Did you come up with something like "transperson banned from place of business for using 'wrong' bathroom"?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/13/17733363-transgender-woman-banned-from-idaho-grocery-store-over-restroom-use?lite

Atomika · April 2013

Well, the story did say she was peeing while standing.

I just have to hope she had the stall door closed.

But yes, this is just another case of people giving into bigotry. *sigh*

Shivahn · April 2013

I know plenty of ladies who pee while standi

Oh, right.

: (

Edith Upwards · April 2013

Research Medical Center is the hospital that had Roger Gorley, a gay man who was visiting his husband, Allen Mansell, handcuffed and arrested despite his having legal medical power of attorney and thus every right to be by his bedside. Located in Kansas City, Missouri, Research Medical Center is owned by HCA Healthcare, which is owned HCA Holdings, Inc., the largest private operator of hospitals and healthcare facilities in the world.

It’s currently worth an estimated $17 billion.

And HCA’s largest shareholder is Bain Capital, LLC, the company former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney co-founded and headed.

HCA is also the company that Rick Scott, current governor of Florida, was forced to resign from — because of Medicare fraud.

Last year, John Hudson at The Atlantic Wire reported that “HCA’s biggest shareholder is Bain Capital LLC, the company once led and co-founded by Mitt Romney. And this isn’t some tiny asset: HCA own 160 hospitals and 110 surgery centers. As of April, Bain held 20 percent of HCA’s outstanding shares, an amount Bloomberg’s Alex Nussbaum says is worth $2.2 billion, and just last year, Bain and KKR & Co. took the company public in an IPO that raised $3.79 billion.”

Atomika · April 2013

Shivahn wrote: »

I know plenty of ladies who pee while standi

Oh, right.

: (

I think bathrooms should be unisex and we should all get over ourselves.

Sweeney Tom · April 2013

The final reading of New Zealand's marriage equality bill is Wednesday. It is expected to pass, and if it does NZ would beat France to the official claim of being the 13th country to legalize gay marriage.

Arch · April 2013

Delzhand wrote: »

In news that unfortunately surprises no-one

Wait, let's do this different. Just close your eyes and think of the most basic news story you can imagine where a transperson is involved.

Did you come up with something like "transperson banned from place of business for using 'wrong' bathroom"?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/13/17733363-transgender-woman-banned-from-idaho-grocery-store-over-restroom-use?lite

oh Idaho

LadyM · April 2013

Krispy Kreme doughnuts are disgusting, I can't believe people like that mushy crap. (I eat Top Pot Doughnuts because I'm a Seattle elitist.)

Regarding the Idaho thing, welp, that's Idaho for you. Sidenote, there are several devices made to allow CIS women to pee standing up. I remember looking into them when I was doing field work in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest. It's no fun squatting in the scrub steppe, amongst the rattlesnakes.

Shivahn · April 2013

LadyM wrote: »

Krispy Kreme doughnuts are disgusting, I can't believe people like that mushy crap. (I eat Top Pot Doughnuts because I'm a Seattle elitist.)

Regarding the Idaho thing, welp, that's Idaho for you. Sidenote, there are several devices made to allow CIS women to pee standing up. I remember looking into them when I was doing field work in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest. It's no fun squatting in the scrub steppe, amongst the rattlesnakes.

I don't know what you do but whatever it is it sounds awesome.

(Also I agree on the doughnuts, but it gets me almost as much flak as not liking In-N-Out >.>)

Atomika · April 2013

It's okay to not like In-N-Out.

Their burgers are meh, their fries are crap, and they're passive-aggressive about their religious bullshit.

Fuck 'em, is my policy.

Astaereth · April 2013

In-N-Out burgers are great, but their fries are awful, that's true. I only go there rarely because I usually have to stop at McDonald's on the way home just for fries.

To people who hate Krispy Kreme, have you eaten them hot? That's the whole point.

Kana · April 2013

Here's my problem with this whole hospital thing, you're only quoting the bits from the links that are either Gorley or his daughter's side of things, when the hospital actually sounds like they were just trying to help their patient and have a pretty reasonable case to make.

Research Medical Center was one of the first hospitals in Kansas City to offer domestic partner benefits, which have been in place since 2005, and we have had a policy specifically acknowledging domestic partners’ visitation rights in place for years.

This was an issue of disruptive and belligerent behavior by the visitor that affected patient care. The hospital’s response followed the same policies that would apply to any individual engaged in this behavior in a patient care setting and was not in any way related to the patient’s or the visitor’s sexual orientation or marital status. This visitor created a barrier for us to care for the patient. Attempts were made to deescalate the situation. Unfortunately, we had no choice but to involve security and the Kansas City MO Police Department.

Even so the reason the guy was arrested was because he was literally physically resisting the police.

Gorley claims a nurse wouldn’t accept him as Allen’s husband and had him escorted out by security. He was later arrested by Kansas City, Mo., police. However, HCA said the decision to ask Gorley to leave was because Gorley and Allen’s brother were fighting inside the hospital room.

“When the nurse went in to ask them to please quiet down and please stop this and they continued, and every time they stepped out it would get escalated, so she stepped back in and asked them to remove themselves for the sake of the patient at the moment,” said Rob Dyer of HCA. At one point, Dyer said security footage shows a nurse backing out of the room and Gorley was swearing at her, pointing his finger close to her face.

Look, if a husband had been away at work when his wife's family showed up with paramedics, concerned for her health, and the paramedics agree that she needed to be hospitalized immediately? That's not a breach of power of attorney. And if the husband then comes in and starts fighting with the family, yelling at nurses, and obstructing patient treatment? That dude's getting his ass thrown out, and nobody would be trying to phrase this as, "noble straight man arrested simply because he wanted to stay by his wife's hospital bedside."

By all means follow this story and see what corroborating details come out, but just from comments above me in this thread I can tell there's a lot of people getting outraged without even actually reading both accounts of what happened. I know there's obviously a lot of sensitivity on the topic of hospital visitation rights, but this literally has nothing to do with that. And the patient's family? Maybe they're assholes or not, but they're also plainly worried about the life of their brother. You don't get sent to the hospital by paramedics for being a little "sluggish".

PLA · April 2013

shryke wrote: »

That's all I remember about Krispy Kreme when they were here in Canada. (or first here, apparently they are still a few isolated places)

It was like it was soaked overnight in a vat of liquid sugar.

Aren't there liquefied doughnuts in bottles?

Captain Carrot wrote: »

Bill Donahue is a toolbox.

D: Leave toolbox alone!

Just_Bri_Thanks · April 2013

PLA wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

That's all I remember about Krispy Kreme when they were here in Canada. (or first here, apparently they are still a few isolated places)

It was like it was soaked overnight in a vat of liquid sugar.

Aren't there liquefied doughnuts in bottles?

Essence of doughnut?

KalTorak · April 2013

Krispy Kremes are okay, provided they're the free ones they give you that are like 10 seconds out of the machine. The fund-raising boxes full of a dozen melty ones, no thanks.

Dunk's are more consistently tasty, the coffee is halfway decent, and they usually have toasted coconut doughnuts, i.e. the only reason to ever eat coconut.

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