Which is one of the reasons why I would have monkey pawed any such attempts in the last main to make the red vote so that it couldn't kill village. It would have made the village lazy and public narration reveals tend to be rather unfun since they tend to really kill village discussion. After all why try piecing together information, when people will slowly be revealed as clean, which usually is slow enough that the mafia ends up winning anyways. =/
I'm wondering in how much better shape the village would have been without the day 1 network being forced, since that might have caused the village to go with the more effective: "Okay, vote just closed post your location" approach. Literally, every special acted a location confirmation seer. If they're action failed, then the person they targeted wasn't in their time stream. This set up actually made action seers a little more useful since action seering people without any powers yields nothing typically. On that note, given that success of actions for specials was a 1/3 and they couldn't do jack if they did any movement, probably would have worked better for the village if chronal bombs at least required one mafioso present in the junction that it's suppose to detonate in.
I was just rereading this, and if anyone expected the village to try this plan, they should have thought otherwise because this would have outed the village specials (ie, the only villagers who could time travel).
Not really, there were lots of specials. On top of that there was one special that could move anyone they wanted to a different time. Plus, specials couldn't move and use their special powers in the same night. Finally, we were suppose to have a role that could assign people lost roles. It would have taken the mafia some time to actually piece together who was an actual special.
The major problem I see with it is that the mafia had the kill that didn't require knowing the target's location, while all the village specials were dealing with a 1/3 shot of success if they weren't hitting one of the four guys that existed outside of time. Hell, with a 1/3 shot, having to pick between moving or using a power and the fact that the mafia could kill anyone they wanted that wasn't guarded, there really wasn't much point for some specials to move.
In a lot of ways most of the specials felt like they were designed for soft networking, without considering how much faster soft networking leads to special death.
Not really, there were lots of specials. On top of that there was one special that could move anyone they wanted to a different time. Plus, specials couldn't move and use their special powers in the same night. Finally, we were suppose to have a role that could assign people lost roles. It would have taken the mafia some time to actually piece together who was an actual special.
The major problem I see with it is that the mafia had the kill that didn't require knowing the target's location, while all the village specials were dealing with a 1/3 shot of success if they weren't hitting one of the four guys that existed outside of time. Hell, with a 1/3 shot, having to pick between moving or using a power and the fact that the mafia could kill anyone they wanted that wasn't guarded, there really wasn't much point for some specials to move.
Right, but we didn't know how many specials there were, nor what their abilities were. And since the specials couldn't both move and use our powers, by publicly announcing our locations we made it easier for the mafia to get around us. If a known special (someone who has moved before, say) appears in a time where the mafia aren't worried, then that power is essentially out of play for the night. If he's in a time where his power would be useful, then you can probably be certain he'll stay there so he becomes an easy target.
Besides which, the vote close was SUPER LATE for most of the playerbase. I doubt many of us would have been able to post our locations at the correct time, even had we wanted to.
Honestly, the timeless kill isn't so much of a problem for me as the TimeCop Commander role. Too much power concentrated in one person makes luck too big a factor. And having that kind of power really limits a person's range of motion. That is one PM I would never want to receive.
Not really, there were lots of specials. On top of that there was one special that could move anyone they wanted to a different time. Plus, specials couldn't move and use their special powers in the same night. Finally, we were suppose to have a role that could assign people lost roles. It would have taken the mafia some time to actually piece together who was an actual special.
The major problem I see with it is that the mafia had the kill that didn't require knowing the target's location, while all the village specials were dealing with a 1/3 shot of success if they weren't hitting one of the four guys that existed outside of time. Hell, with a 1/3 shot, having to pick between moving or using a power and the fact that the mafia could kill anyone they wanted that wasn't guarded, there really wasn't much point for some specials to move.
Right, but we didn't know how many specials there were, nor what their abilities were. And since the specials couldn't both move and use our powers, by publicly announcing our locations we made it easier for the mafia to get around us. If a known special (someone who has moved before, say) appears in a time where the mafia aren't worried, then that power is essentially out of play for the night. If he's in a time where his power would be useful, then you can probably be certain he'll stay there so he becomes an easy target.
Besides which, the vote close was SUPER LATE for most of the playerbase. I doubt many of us would have been able to post our locations at the correct time, even had we wanted to.
Honestly, the timeless kill isn't so much of a problem for me as the TimeCop Commander role. Too much power concentrated in one person makes luck too big a factor. And having that kind of power really limits a person's range of motion. That is one PM I would never want to receive.
This is why I hate being a seer.
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In a lot of ways most of the specials felt like they were designed for soft networking, without considering how much faster soft networking leads to special death.
That was an impression I got as well. Honestly, I think both mafia and specials should have the same limitations when it comes to locations. Either they all can ignore location limits or they are all bound by it. It seems like locations don't work too well when one side isn't bound by them and the other side gets screwed over because they not only have to be in the right place, but they are chasing after someone that more or less ignores location set ups.
I'd also like to point at, looking at the conversion setup. I'm not a huge fan of mafia conversions that don't cost the mafia a starting member. Given how conversions can be used to seriously undermine a village network, I don't think the mafia should have start out with 20% and then have the option to convert someone. It should either be start at 20% with no conversions or under 20% with conversions.
Also I think the mafia were probably overpowered while thinking about it because their "back in time" capabilities guaranteed good usage of abilities. Compare to even the vig in a standard game, who is going "Well I think I'll take a shot at someone and hope they're mafia, and hope that even if they aren't the vote record can be useful". Going back in time and guarding TRV is a guard that you know works, that you know can't be metagamed or screwed with in any way. Going back in time and converting someone confirmed village through narration is just...MAN that's a strong ability. Usually there's some uncertainty in abilities: If I use this guard, is my target even going to be attacked? If not, have I pretty much wasted the turn? Will this roleblock accomplish anything? Will my seer target just get killed? All of that's gone with time travel. Time travel guarantees a best case scenario for every ability that can be time traveled. Especially compared with location-based village that's a really strong mafia.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Also I think the mafia were probably overpowered while thinking about it because their "back in time" capabilities guaranteed good usage of abilities. Compare to even the vig in a standard game, who is going "Well I think I'll take a shot at someone and hope they're mafia, and hope that even if they aren't the vote record can be useful". Going back in time and guarding TRV is a guard that you know works, that you know can't be metagamed or screwed with in any way. Going back in time and converting someone confirmed village through narration is just...MAN that's a strong ability. Usually there's some uncertainty in abilities: If I use this guard, is my target even going to be attacked? If not, have I pretty much wasted the turn? Will this roleblock accomplish anything? Will my seer target just get killed? All of that's gone with time travel. Time travel guarantees a best case scenario for every ability that can be time traveled. Especially compared with location-based village that's a really strong mafia.
Yeah. I was trying to use the Detective's movement ability to at least have a chance of surviving Day 2; I was sure I'd said the wrong thing to someone. That it turned out not to matter and you guys could also mailbomb Bradicus, whose location I hadn't revealed, is further salt in the wound.
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Iron WeaselDillon!You son of a bitch!Registered Userregular
Not really, there were lots of specials. On top of that there was one special that could move anyone they wanted to a different time. Plus, specials couldn't move and use their special powers in the same night. Finally, we were suppose to have a role that could assign people lost roles. It would have taken the mafia some time to actually piece together who was an actual special.
The major problem I see with it is that the mafia had the kill that didn't require knowing the target's location, while all the village specials were dealing with a 1/3 shot of success if they weren't hitting one of the four guys that existed outside of time. Hell, with a 1/3 shot, having to pick between moving or using a power and the fact that the mafia could kill anyone they wanted that wasn't guarded, there really wasn't much point for some specials to move.
Right, but we didn't know how many specials there were, nor what their abilities were. And since the specials couldn't both move and use our powers, by publicly announcing our locations we made it easier for the mafia to get around us. If a known special (someone who has moved before, say) appears in a time where the mafia aren't worried, then that power is essentially out of play for the night. If he's in a time where his power would be useful, then you can probably be certain he'll stay there so he becomes an easy target.
Besides which, the vote close was SUPER LATE for most of the playerbase. I doubt many of us would have been able to post our locations at the correct time, even had we wanted to.
Honestly, the timeless kill isn't so much of a problem for me as the TimeCop Commander role. Too much power concentrated in one person makes luck too big a factor. And having that kind of power really limits a person's range of motion. That is one PM I would never want to receive.
This is why I hate being a seer.
Luckily, I died long before I could come to hate my role.
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I thought you were obviously not mafia.
Meh, I was probably due.
I was just rereading this, and if anyone expected the village to try this plan, they should have thought otherwise because this would have outed the village specials (ie, the only villagers who could time travel).
The major problem I see with it is that the mafia had the kill that didn't require knowing the target's location, while all the village specials were dealing with a 1/3 shot of success if they weren't hitting one of the four guys that existed outside of time. Hell, with a 1/3 shot, having to pick between moving or using a power and the fact that the mafia could kill anyone they wanted that wasn't guarded, there really wasn't much point for some specials to move.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Right, but we didn't know how many specials there were, nor what their abilities were. And since the specials couldn't both move and use our powers, by publicly announcing our locations we made it easier for the mafia to get around us. If a known special (someone who has moved before, say) appears in a time where the mafia aren't worried, then that power is essentially out of play for the night. If he's in a time where his power would be useful, then you can probably be certain he'll stay there so he becomes an easy target.
Besides which, the vote close was SUPER LATE for most of the playerbase. I doubt many of us would have been able to post our locations at the correct time, even had we wanted to.
Honestly, the timeless kill isn't so much of a problem for me as the TimeCop Commander role. Too much power concentrated in one person makes luck too big a factor. And having that kind of power really limits a person's range of motion. That is one PM I would never want to receive.
This is why I hate being a seer.
That was an impression I got as well. Honestly, I think both mafia and specials should have the same limitations when it comes to locations. Either they all can ignore location limits or they are all bound by it. It seems like locations don't work too well when one side isn't bound by them and the other side gets screwed over because they not only have to be in the right place, but they are chasing after someone that more or less ignores location set ups.
I'd also like to point at, looking at the conversion setup. I'm not a huge fan of mafia conversions that don't cost the mafia a starting member. Given how conversions can be used to seriously undermine a village network, I don't think the mafia should have start out with 20% and then have the option to convert someone. It should either be start at 20% with no conversions or under 20% with conversions.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Yeah. I was trying to use the Detective's movement ability to at least have a chance of surviving Day 2; I was sure I'd said the wrong thing to someone. That it turned out not to matter and you guys could also mailbomb Bradicus, whose location I hadn't revealed, is further salt in the wound.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227