This discussion is similar to one that happened in one of the Bioshock: Infinite threads. Walt is the protagonist. But he's a protagonist that is an anti-hero. Good anti-hero stories aren't terribly prevalent. Walt is such a great anti-hero. Because anti-hero protagonists aren't that common most of the time, we tend to just refer to people as the "hero" or the "villain," but those terms don't really work in Breaking Bad since the person we're following would normally be a "villain," yet he's the main character of the story. He is, as you say, Blake, most definitely the Hero in the story he's telling himself, though.
I think I've just posted more in this thread today than I have in all the 97 other pages together. That's weird.
Breaking Bad has a knack for characters that start off as a bit of a joke, but then get deeper and more complex without sacrificing their humor. It's a hell of a balancing act.
Jesse, Hank, Saul, Marie. Even Skinny Pete and Badger, to a lesser extent.
i've sympathy for jesse because he's basically a child looking for a father figure who can say he's proud of him. But he's been involved in some horrific shit, at least he feels shame and guilt about it and has had more complicated/empathetic motivations than walt, but I would still struggle to call him a hero. I root for him because he is that kind of confused child, and there is a real decency in there which you hope will be the thing that ultimately saves him.
i've sympathy for jesse because he's basically a child looking for a father figure who can say he's proud of him. But he's been involved in some horrific shit, at least he feels shame and guilt about it and has had more complicated/empathetic motivations than walt, but I would still struggle to call him a hero. I root for him because he is that kind of confused child, and there is a real decency in there which you hope will be the thing that ultimately saves him.
Jesse is also a great foil for Walt because you see Jesse's spark of decency as contrasted to Walt's ever-growing detachment from any kind of morality or ethics other than saving his own skin as he makes the most money he can. Walt's manipulation of Jesse provides strong and nuanced evidence for Walt's deteriorating humanity.
I have a friend who argues that because you don't want Walt to win anymore, they have ruined his character
The lead character of a show should be someone you identify with and root for, if the central character of a show is someone you don't want to win anymore they have irreparably fucked up the show
He also argues that the last episode of Season 4 was a giant mistake that has caused the show to go downhill incredibly fast
I think the thing that really makes Breaking Bad work is that Walt is THE anti-hero. I don't want to see him succeed, because he is a bad person. But goddamn if I'm not invested in his story.
I was pretty mad at Walt when he
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manipulated Jesse into breaking up with his girlfriend
considering all the things he's done that are much worse.
even at his worst he did often care about Jesse beyond his own machinations. That's all gone now and it was pretty much the last thing humanizing him at all : (
Gus was confirmed to be behind the call, but it was never confirmed who was actually on the phone
it doesn't actually matter who was on the phone, just like it doesn't really matter WHO the DEA mole was, just that there was one
What is this about a mole in the DEA? I remember suspecting that one existed way back....but I don't remember what evidence I had for it. Looking back on it I can't remember any plot point that specifically required the existence of a mole in the DEA.
I think the thing that really makes Breaking Bad work is that Walt is THE anti-hero. I don't want to see him succeed, because he is a bad person. But goddamn if I'm not invested in his story.
My favorite scene with Walt and Jesse's relationship is
I can't remember how it came about, whether walt was drugged up or sleep talking, but he kept talking about his son never listening and he just wants to do his best for him, and then he says Jesse's name.
I think the thing that really makes Breaking Bad work is that Walt is THE anti-hero. I don't want to see him succeed, because he is a bad person. But goddamn if I'm not invested in his story.
Walt isn't an anti-hero. Hasn't been for a while.
I don't mean to sound like I'm challenging you, I just genuinely don't know. What is an anti-hero, and if Walt isn't one what is he?
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
I think the thing that really makes Breaking Bad work is that Walt is THE anti-hero. I don't want to see him succeed, because he is a bad person. But goddamn if I'm not invested in his story.
Walt isn't an anti-hero. Hasn't been for a while.
I don't mean to sound like I'm challenging you, I just genuinely don't know. What is an anti-hero, and if Walt isn't one what is he?
I think he started out as one; doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.
But then he just kind of realized that the slippery slope was no fun descending slowly, so he doffed some skis and headed for the ramp.
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Larlarconsecutive normal brunchesModerator, ClubPAmod
Isn't an antihero just a main character with no redeeming qualities or virtues?
I think the thing that really makes Breaking Bad work is that Walt is THE anti-hero. I don't want to see him succeed, because he is a bad person. But goddamn if I'm not invested in his story.
Walt isn't an anti-hero. Hasn't been for a while.
I don't mean to sound like I'm challenging you, I just genuinely don't know. What is an anti-hero, and if Walt isn't one what is he?
I think he started out as one; doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.
But then he just kind of realized that the slippery slope was no fun descending slowly, so he doffed some skis and headed for the ramp.
this isn't quite right either though
walt going bad wasn't a conscious choice to say fuck it i'm gonna goatee it the fuck up
every step, every decision, has been justified in his mind as being necessary in order for him to stay alive and keep providing for his family
it just so happens that every single one of those things is worse than the one that came before
Walt's the protagonist, but that don't make him any variety of hero.
I think it's interesting how many different points there are where people give up on Walt. Like, almost everybody has a different one, but there pretty much ain't anybody left in the world who thinks Walt's anything but a bad guy.
A friend of mine actually thought they were laying it on too thick, but the fact that everybody has a different threshold is kinda indicative of how they had to keep hammering that point home. Had to keep pushing what's forgivable.
Some people, it was Jane. Some, the 747. Some, it was Brock. Some people were able to hold out even 'til Mike.
Me, personally, it was when he raped his wife. I realized we weren't just following an anti-hero - we were watching the origin story for a supervillain.
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I'm mean he ain't no hero by anyone's imagination, except his own.
Satans..... hints.....
I think I've just posted more in this thread today than I have in all the 97 other pages together. That's weird.
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Satans..... hints.....
don't forget Gomey!
Jesse, Hank, Saul, Marie. Even Skinny Pete and Badger, to a lesser extent.
He's loyal to a fault, but is incredibly uncomfortable with the situations Walt regularly puts him in
People were positive that those body bags in season 2 were Skylar and Walt Jr and the White house exploded
What brings this up is that I saw several people who were positive that Gomez was the mole in the DEA, entirely because he grew a goatee
At this point, I'm still pretty sure it was Merkert.
He was the one running the DEA at the time, and showing Gus around once or twice, and I'm 99% it was his voice warning Hank about you know who.
Jesse is also a great foil for Walt because you see Jesse's spark of decency as contrasted to Walt's ever-growing detachment from any kind of morality or ethics other than saving his own skin as he makes the most money he can. Walt's manipulation of Jesse provides strong and nuanced evidence for Walt's deteriorating humanity.
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He's also a terrible human being.
A character doesn't need to be moral or right to be great.
The lead character of a show should be someone you identify with and root for, if the central character of a show is someone you don't want to win anymore they have irreparably fucked up the show
He also argues that the last episode of Season 4 was a giant mistake that has caused the show to go downhill incredibly fast
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Gus was the one who called Hank in One Minute
I don't remember.
Speculating on Breaking Bad is like Tic-Tac-Toe or Global Thermonuclear War: the only winning move is not to play.
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Walt isn't an anti-hero. Hasn't been for a while.
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there's this bizarre father-son dynamic at play, jesse respects/fears walt
and then that all stops
and it's the perfect way to illustrate how little of a fuck jesse gives anymore
I don't mean to sound like I'm challenging you, I just genuinely don't know. What is an anti-hero, and if Walt isn't one what is he?
I think he started out as one; doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.
But then he just kind of realized that the slippery slope was no fun descending slowly, so he doffed some skis and headed for the ramp.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
He has no enemies left except himself
not really because being the main character doesn't make you the hero
this isn't quite right either though
walt going bad wasn't a conscious choice to say fuck it i'm gonna goatee it the fuck up
every step, every decision, has been justified in his mind as being necessary in order for him to stay alive and keep providing for his family
it just so happens that every single one of those things is worse than the one that came before
I think it's interesting how many different points there are where people give up on Walt. Like, almost everybody has a different one, but there pretty much ain't anybody left in the world who thinks Walt's anything but a bad guy.
A friend of mine actually thought they were laying it on too thick, but the fact that everybody has a different threshold is kinda indicative of how they had to keep hammering that point home. Had to keep pushing what's forgivable.
Me, personally, it was when he raped his wife. I realized we weren't just following an anti-hero - we were watching the origin story for a supervillain.