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Breaking Bad

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    Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    He is the "hero" of the story in the sense that the story is about him and how he succeeds (and also how he obviously eventually fails)

    I'm mean he ain't no hero by anyone's imagination, except his own.

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    N1tSt4lkerN1tSt4lker Registered User regular
    This discussion is similar to one that happened in one of the Bioshock: Infinite threads. Walt is the protagonist. But he's a protagonist that is an anti-hero. Good anti-hero stories aren't terribly prevalent. Walt is such a great anti-hero. Because anti-hero protagonists aren't that common most of the time, we tend to just refer to people as the "hero" or the "villain," but those terms don't really work in Breaking Bad since the person we're following would normally be a "villain," yet he's the main character of the story. He is, as you say, Blake, most definitely the Hero in the story he's telling himself, though.

    I think I've just posted more in this thread today than I have in all the 97 other pages together. That's weird.

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    MarthMarth Registered User regular
    Borking Berd is a good show and I'm ready for it to come back.

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    Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    Ironically, the most heroic person so far is hank. And then probably Jesse.

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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    Blake T wrote: »
    Ironically, the most heroic person so far is hank. And then probably Jesse.

    don't forget Gomey!


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    PassionateLoviePassionateLovie Registered User regular
    Can't wait for the next season! :D

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Breaking Bad has a knack for characters that start off as a bit of a joke, but then get deeper and more complex without sacrificing their humor. It's a hell of a balancing act.

    Jesse, Hank, Saul, Marie. Even Skinny Pete and Badger, to a lesser extent.

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    It's kinda crazy how by the time the fifth season comes about, Saul is probably one of the most moral characters

    He's loyal to a fault, but is incredibly uncomfortable with the situations Walt regularly puts him in

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    FAQFAQ Registered User regular
    i've sympathy for jesse because he's basically a child looking for a father figure who can say he's proud of him. But he's been involved in some horrific shit, at least he feels shame and guilt about it and has had more complicated/empathetic motivations than walt, but I would still struggle to call him a hero. I root for him because he is that kind of confused child, and there is a real decency in there which you hope will be the thing that ultimately saves him.

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    FAQFAQ Registered User regular
    also the sopranos ending didn't disappoint everyone interviewer, i loved it

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    I love old Breaking Bad speculation

    People were positive that those body bags in season 2 were Skylar and Walt Jr and the White house exploded

    What brings this up is that I saw several people who were positive that Gomez was the mole in the DEA, entirely because he grew a goatee

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    SporkAndrewSporkAndrew Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Darkest timeline Gomey breaking through.

    The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
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    GoatmonGoatmon Companion of Kess Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    I love old Breaking Bad speculation

    People were positive that those body bags in season 2 were Skylar and Walt Jr and the White house exploded

    What brings this up is that I saw several people who were positive that Gomez was the mole in the DEA, entirely because he grew a goatee

    At this point, I'm still pretty sure it was Merkert.

    He was the one running the DEA at the time, and showing Gus around once or twice, and I'm 99% it was his voice warning Hank about you know who.

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    GatsbyGatsby Registered User regular
    I, personally, will never get tired of people's reactions when first watching the show.

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    N1tSt4lkerN1tSt4lker Registered User regular
    FAQ wrote: »
    i've sympathy for jesse because he's basically a child looking for a father figure who can say he's proud of him. But he's been involved in some horrific shit, at least he feels shame and guilt about it and has had more complicated/empathetic motivations than walt, but I would still struggle to call him a hero. I root for him because he is that kind of confused child, and there is a real decency in there which you hope will be the thing that ultimately saves him.

    Jesse is also a great foil for Walt because you see Jesse's spark of decency as contrasted to Walt's ever-growing detachment from any kind of morality or ethics other than saving his own skin as he makes the most money he can. Walt's manipulation of Jesse provides strong and nuanced evidence for Walt's deteriorating humanity.

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    StaleStale Registered User regular
    I unabashedly love watching Walt. I root for him. He's an interesting character. His story is great.

    He's also a terrible human being.

    A character doesn't need to be moral or right to be great.

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    I have a friend who argues that because you don't want Walt to win anymore, they have ruined his character

    The lead character of a show should be someone you identify with and root for, if the central character of a show is someone you don't want to win anymore they have irreparably fucked up the show

    He also argues that the last episode of Season 4 was a giant mistake that has caused the show to go downhill incredibly fast

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    VeldrinVeldrin Sham bam bamina Registered User regular
    Your friend has a bit of a silly opinion of the show.

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    glithertglithert Registered User regular
    I think the thing that really makes Breaking Bad work is that Walt is THE anti-hero. I don't want to see him succeed, because he is a bad person. But goddamn if I'm not invested in his story.

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    He recently watched the Wire and the Sopranos and now will not accept any show that doesn't meet those standards

    He also hated hated hated HATED Friday Night Lights

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    AvrahamAvraham Registered User regular
    If David Chase had written Breaking Bad the series would have ended with Hank on the toilet.

    :bz: :bz: :bzz:
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    DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    I was pretty mad at Walt when he
    current season spoiler
    manipulated Jesse into breaking up with his girlfriend
    considering all the things he's done that are much worse.
    even at his worst he did often care about Jesse beyond his own machinations. That's all gone now and it was pretty much the last thing humanizing him at all : (

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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    Goatmon wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    I love old Breaking Bad speculation

    People were positive that those body bags in season 2 were Skylar and Walt Jr and the White house exploded

    What brings this up is that I saw several people who were positive that Gomez was the mole in the DEA, entirely because he grew a goatee

    At this point, I'm still pretty sure it was Merkert.

    He was the one running the DEA at the time, and showing Gus around once or twice, and I'm 99% it was his voice warning Hank about you know who.

    Gus was the one who called Hank in One Minute

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    GoatmonGoatmon Companion of Kess Registered User regular
    Was that confirmed?

    I don't remember.

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Gus was confirmed to be behind the call, but it was never confirmed who was actually on the phone
    it doesn't actually matter who was on the phone, just like it doesn't really matter WHO the DEA mole was, just that there was one

    Mr. G on
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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Wouldn't it be neat if there was a "Best Cold-Open" Emmy so that Breaking Bad could get another trophy for its shelf every year?

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    Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    I love old Breaking Bad speculation

    People were positive that those body bags in season 2 were Skylar and Walt Jr and the White house exploded

    What brings this up is that I saw several people who were positive that Gomez was the mole in the DEA, entirely because he grew a goatee

    Speculating on Breaking Bad is like Tic-Tac-Toe or Global Thermonuclear War: the only winning move is not to play.

    ygPIJ.gif
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    MaratastikMaratastik Just call me Mara, please! Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Gus was confirmed to be behind the call, but it was never confirmed who was actually on the phone
    it doesn't actually matter who was on the phone, just like it doesn't really matter WHO the DEA mole was, just that there was one
    What is this about a mole in the DEA? I remember suspecting that one existed way back....but I don't remember what evidence I had for it. Looking back on it I can't remember any plot point that specifically required the existence of a mole in the DEA.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    glithert wrote: »
    I think the thing that really makes Breaking Bad work is that Walt is THE anti-hero. I don't want to see him succeed, because he is a bad person. But goddamn if I'm not invested in his story.

    Walt isn't an anti-hero. Hasn't been for a while.

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    Ruby RhodRuby Rhod Multipass!Registered User regular
    My favorite scene with Walt and Jesse's relationship is
    I can't remember how it came about, whether walt was drugged up or sleep talking, but he kept talking about his son never listening and he just wants to do his best for him, and then he says Jesse's name.

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    Ruby RhodRuby Rhod Multipass!Registered User regular
    Also I still have trouble getting over the fact sometimes that the dad from Malcolm in the Middle is a Meth kingpin.

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    ZayZay yes i am zay Registered User regular
    life is unfaaaaair

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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    my absolute favorite moments in breaking bad are the two times that jesse calls walt by his first name

    there's this bizarre father-son dynamic at play, jesse respects/fears walt

    and then that all stops

    and it's the perfect way to illustrate how little of a fuck jesse gives anymore

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    glithertglithert Registered User regular
    glithert wrote: »
    I think the thing that really makes Breaking Bad work is that Walt is THE anti-hero. I don't want to see him succeed, because he is a bad person. But goddamn if I'm not invested in his story.

    Walt isn't an anti-hero. Hasn't been for a while.

    I don't mean to sound like I'm challenging you, I just genuinely don't know. What is an anti-hero, and if Walt isn't one what is he?

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    MalReynoldsMalReynolds The Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicines Registered User regular
    glithert wrote: »
    glithert wrote: »
    I think the thing that really makes Breaking Bad work is that Walt is THE anti-hero. I don't want to see him succeed, because he is a bad person. But goddamn if I'm not invested in his story.

    Walt isn't an anti-hero. Hasn't been for a while.

    I don't mean to sound like I'm challenging you, I just genuinely don't know. What is an anti-hero, and if Walt isn't one what is he?

    I think he started out as one; doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.

    But then he just kind of realized that the slippery slope was no fun descending slowly, so he doffed some skis and headed for the ramp.

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    LarlarLarlar consecutive normal brunches Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Isn't an antihero just a main character with no redeeming qualities or virtues?

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    By the fifth season, Walt is just straight-up the villain

    He has no enemies left except himself

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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    Larlar wrote: »
    Isn't an antihero just a main character with no redeeming qualities or virtues?

    not really because being the main character doesn't make you the hero

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    ButtlordButtlord Fornicus Lord of Bondage and PainRegistered User regular
    glithert wrote: »
    glithert wrote: »
    I think the thing that really makes Breaking Bad work is that Walt is THE anti-hero. I don't want to see him succeed, because he is a bad person. But goddamn if I'm not invested in his story.

    Walt isn't an anti-hero. Hasn't been for a while.

    I don't mean to sound like I'm challenging you, I just genuinely don't know. What is an anti-hero, and if Walt isn't one what is he?

    I think he started out as one; doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.

    But then he just kind of realized that the slippery slope was no fun descending slowly, so he doffed some skis and headed for the ramp.

    this isn't quite right either though

    walt going bad wasn't a conscious choice to say fuck it i'm gonna goatee it the fuck up

    every step, every decision, has been justified in his mind as being necessary in order for him to stay alive and keep providing for his family

    it just so happens that every single one of those things is worse than the one that came before

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Walt's the protagonist, but that don't make him any variety of hero.

    I think it's interesting how many different points there are where people give up on Walt. Like, almost everybody has a different one, but there pretty much ain't anybody left in the world who thinks Walt's anything but a bad guy.

    A friend of mine actually thought they were laying it on too thick, but the fact that everybody has a different threshold is kinda indicative of how they had to keep hammering that point home. Had to keep pushing what's forgivable.
    Some people, it was Jane. Some, the 747. Some, it was Brock. Some people were able to hold out even 'til Mike.

    Me, personally, it was when he raped his wife. I realized we weren't just following an anti-hero - we were watching the origin story for a supervillain.

This discussion has been closed.