I saw that at my local store and wondered what it was about. I got the impression that the theme would need to be a hit in order for it to really work with most groups.
It's funny how you can drop a game where the idea is "kill stuff in [theme]" without raising any eyebrows, but as soon as you add parties and haberdasherie people get all weird.
Yeah, people get really political about anything that even accidentally portrays something that could be considered "traditional gender roles".
I've never understood why games like Pret-a-Porter are such a hard sell to many gamers. It's a game about managing a business. The fact that it happens to be a business that's about designing clothes seems arbitrary. I understand being indifferent about it (I feel that way about Drum Roll), but not wanting to play a game because the theme isn't manly enough just seems... sad.
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
The first time Ladies and Gentlemen was brought up in this thread, there were at least 2 knee-jerk replies of "I dunno, this seems sexist."
I still need to get that to the table, but I'm waiting for certain things to develop here first ... In the meantime, we're still very much enjoying Ground Floor and looking forward to more Terra Mystica.
I won our last game of Ground Floor without ever going about 2 employees. Pretty interesting game in that respect. I made most of my money off of turn-start income, supplemented with a few product sales. Grabbed a buch of info in a couple of consecutive consultations, then went to down with the Construction Admin. It was weird when my entire round took 20 seconds, and then I had to wait 10 minutes for everyone else to use up their remaining time. >_>
I saw that at my local store and wondered what it was about. I got the impression that the theme would need to be a hit in order for it to really work with most groups.
It's funny how you can drop a game where the idea is "kill stuff in [theme]" without raising any eyebrows, but as soon as you add parties and haberdasherie people get all weird.
I love it when games deviate from the standard themes. I have this game Ground Floor, and I love that's a it's a mundane theme of starting a business. The world has enough games featuring noblemen and courts, or trains, or robots, or dragons. I'd love a game that simulated something as trivial as making small talk.
The first time Ladies and Gentlemen was brought up in this thread, there were at least 2 knee-jerk replies of "I dunno, this seems sexist."
I know, and it could not be farther from the truth. It is such an obvious skewering/parody of Victorian values that it is mind-boggling to me that anyone could call it "sexist." Especially considering the comparison group of chainmail-bikini artwork that is portrayed entirely seriously in many games.
I got to try it the other day with some friends. I was playing a lady, and indeed it is much more cerebral than the gentlemen. I ended up with more than double the points on the other lady playing, because I focused on a bunch of cheap accessories to go with my very expensive necklace and middle-of-the-road dress.
I'd certainly like to try the gentlemen's side of the game, but I'd really like to play it with even more players.
jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
I dunno man, the only thing I can find in this thread (obviously one can always find dumb people elsewhere on the internet) is one person (@poshniallo)asking if Ladies&Gentlemen might be sexist or that's just them misunderstanding the game. Fairly open-minded and reasonable, willing to be proved wrong, not that knee jerky?
Until I see some more examples of this purported outrage, I'm going to file this under Straw Feminism.
For what it's worth, I consider myself a feminist and am not offended by the game at all. Based on the SU&SD video, it seems like both a fun game and hilarious satire.
Yeah, making fun of the fact that women in the Victorian era didn't have a whole lot of rights isn't really perpetuating a patriarchy, here.
Unless making fun of the fact that Railroad barons were heartless capitalists is perpetuating the suppression of worker's rights. In which case I really need to reevaluate all my games. "What does my copy of Dominion REALLY say about my opinions on serfdom?"
That's not in the game at all. "Rights" aren't in the game, unless it's the rights of servants, which is inferred by the fact that servants are dirt-cheap to hire, costing less than even the cheapest handbag in the game.
I wouldn't even care if the game was sexist. Assuming it was set in and representing a time period that was supposed to be sexist.
There is a difference between portrayal and condoning. Huckleberry Finn isn't racist because it has the n-word in it.
Of course, doing a good portrayal of a complicated issue like sexism or racism in a boardgame isn't an easy thing to do at all. So, understandably most designers shy away from it. And you end up with kind of awkward things like the game ending if the black meeple catches the white meeple in Archipelago, from time to time.
I have bought Archipelago but have to pick it up this weekend, and hopefully play it the weekend after. I am very interested in seeing people's reactions to it, whether they think it's racist (I don't, obviously), or interestingly political, or just a game with meeples.
I wouldn't even care if the game was sexist. Assuming it was set in and representing a time period that was supposed to be sexist.
There is a difference between portrayal and condoning. Huckleberry Finn isn't racist because it has the n-word in it.
Of course, doing a good portrayal of a complicated issue like sexism or racism in a boardgame isn't an easy thing to do at all. So, understandably most designers shy away from it. And you end up with kind of awkward things like the game ending if the black meeple catches the white meeple in Archipelago, from time to time.
I don't think that things that portray sexism are sexist. So you probably would mind if something was actually sexist or racist. That was a good point about chainmail bikinis - that's sexist, Ladies & Gentlemen isn't. The characters in all the art of my games being all white people by default is a bit racist, but some wargame of Rorke's Drift wouldn't be.
...at least in my opinion, which I'm working on being humble about and my therapist says I am making good progress with that whole humility thing.
Man, pretty sure @Tayrun has got me utterly defeated in our game of AFaoS. My deck is in tatters and he is ahead on VP. I should probably forfeit but I think I will play it out for practice. And on the off chance that Tayrun makes a critical mistake.
My game again @Jakobagger is interesting, however. He grabbed both settlers right away as the British so I decided to try and dive hard military against him. I am also going French military against Tayrun. It's not something I have much experience doing and it has definitely taught me a few lessons.
In general as the French I do not think I have been valuing the Intendant enough, I need to get him into my decks sooner, maybe prioritize him over a govenor. Also I think I have been too reactive with my anti-raid strategy, I think I should try getting forts up a lot earlier than I usually do.
Oh well, lessons for the next games.
Edit: Oh balls I forgot to set my priorities correctly for raid responses again. I really need to force myself to custom tailor my responses each time to my hand before I end my turn. Speaking of lessons. I mean, the game was a lost one anyway, but still.
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jergarmarhollow man crewgoes pew pew pewRegistered Userregular
I have to say I have had remarkable fun with that game! We stumbled across it and one of the creators of the game at PAX East. We purchased it and all its expansions, and we've had a blast with it at parties. The learning curve is low, and I've managed to even get "non-gamer" friends hooked on it. We liked it so much, we decided to back it on Kickstarter.
I have to say I have had remarkable fun with that game! We stumbled across it and one of the creators of the game at PAX East. We purchased it and all its expansions, and we've had a blast with it at parties. The learning curve is low, and I've managed to even get "non-gamer" friends hooked on it. We liked it so much, we decided to back it on Kickstarter.
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Yeah, people get really political about anything that even accidentally portrays something that could be considered "traditional gender roles".
I still need to get that to the table, but I'm waiting for certain things to develop here first ... In the meantime, we're still very much enjoying Ground Floor and looking forward to more Terra Mystica.
I won our last game of Ground Floor without ever going about 2 employees. Pretty interesting game in that respect. I made most of my money off of turn-start income, supplemented with a few product sales. Grabbed a buch of info in a couple of consecutive consultations, then went to down with the Construction Admin. It was weird when my entire round took 20 seconds, and then I had to wait 10 minutes for everyone else to use up their remaining time. >_>
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
I love it when games deviate from the standard themes. I have this game Ground Floor, and I love that's a it's a mundane theme of starting a business. The world has enough games featuring noblemen and courts, or trains, or robots, or dragons. I'd love a game that simulated something as trivial as making small talk.
http://susd.pretend-money.com/videos/v/the-opener-ladies-gentlemen/
I got to try it the other day with some friends. I was playing a lady, and indeed it is much more cerebral than the gentlemen. I ended up with more than double the points on the other lady playing, because I focused on a bunch of cheap accessories to go with my very expensive necklace and middle-of-the-road dress.
I'd certainly like to try the gentlemen's side of the game, but I'd really like to play it with even more players.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Until I see some more examples of this purported outrage, I'm going to file this under Straw Feminism.
For what it's worth, I consider myself a feminist and am not offended by the game at all. Based on the SU&SD video, it seems like both a fun game and hilarious satire.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Unless making fun of the fact that Railroad barons were heartless capitalists is perpetuating the suppression of worker's rights. In which case I really need to reevaluate all my games. "What does my copy of Dominion REALLY say about my opinions on serfdom?"
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
There is a difference between portrayal and condoning. Huckleberry Finn isn't racist because it has the n-word in it.
Of course, doing a good portrayal of a complicated issue like sexism or racism in a boardgame isn't an easy thing to do at all. So, understandably most designers shy away from it. And you end up with kind of awkward things like the game ending if the black meeple catches the white meeple in Archipelago, from time to time.
I don't think that things that portray sexism are sexist. So you probably would mind if something was actually sexist or racist. That was a good point about chainmail bikinis - that's sexist, Ladies & Gentlemen isn't. The characters in all the art of my games being all white people by default is a bit racist, but some wargame of Rorke's Drift wouldn't be.
...at least in my opinion, which I'm working on being humble about and my therapist says I am making good progress with that whole humility thing.
My game again @Jakobagger is interesting, however. He grabbed both settlers right away as the British so I decided to try and dive hard military against him. I am also going French military against Tayrun. It's not something I have much experience doing and it has definitely taught me a few lessons.
In general as the French I do not think I have been valuing the Intendant enough, I need to get him into my decks sooner, maybe prioritize him over a govenor. Also I think I have been too reactive with my anti-raid strategy, I think I should try getting forts up a lot earlier than I usually do.
Oh well, lessons for the next games.
Edit: Oh balls I forgot to set my priorities correctly for raid responses again. I really need to force myself to custom tailor my responses each time to my hand before I end my turn. Speaking of lessons. I mean, the game was a lost one anyway, but still.
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Battle.net: TheGerm#1430 (Hearthstone, Destiny 2)
I have to say I have had remarkable fun with that game! We stumbled across it and one of the creators of the game at PAX East. We purchased it and all its expansions, and we've had a blast with it at parties. The learning curve is low, and I've managed to even get "non-gamer" friends hooked on it. We liked it so much, we decided to back it on Kickstarter.
I have to say I have had remarkable fun with that game! We stumbled across it and one of the creators of the game at PAX East. We purchased it and all its expansions, and we've had a blast with it at parties. The learning curve is low, and I've managed to even get "non-gamer" friends hooked on it. We liked it so much, we decided to back it on Kickstarter.