unlike regular sugars, it will not have a noticeable impact on your blood sugar level.
This makes no sense at all. It has an extrememly noticeable impact on your blood sugar level. You drink soda, your blood sugar level goes up, it's impossible to argue otherwise.
Please stop spouting bullshit, and read this article.
Diabetics use it because fructose doesn't stimulate insulin production, so blood sugar levels remain stable.
...
Other studies by researchers at UC Davis and the University of Michigan have shown that consuming fructose, which is more readily converted to fat by the liver, increases the levels of fat in the bloodstream in the form of triglycerides.
And unlike other types of carbohydrate made up of glucose, fructose does not stimulate the pancreas to produce insulin. Peter Havel, a nutrition researcher at UC Davis who studies the metabolic effects of fructose, has also shown that fructose fails to increase the production of leptin, a hormone produced by the body's fat cells.
Both insulin and leptin act as signals to the brain to turn down the appetite and control body weight. And in another metabolic twist, Havel's research shows that fructose does not appear to suppress the production of ghrelin, a hormone that increases hunger and appetite.
"Because fructose in isolation doesn't activate the hormones that regulate body weight as do other types of carbohydrate composed of glucose, consuming a diet high in fructose could lead to taking in more calories and, over time, to weight gain," he says.
Losing weight requires a general (sometimes even total) overhaul of yopur lifestyle. It's not a bad thing, but you can't just look at it and call people lazy for not being able to manage it, especially when their peers are putting pitfalls in their way.
It's not a matter of laziness as much as a matter of lack of willpower.
As for pitfalls, those are excuses. Honestly, if you're complaining that you can't lose weight because pieces of candy keep magically appearing on your desk, you're fucked up.
I would argue that quitting smoking is a lot easier than dropping the pounds, and with the ammount of leeway we give people forquitting smoking, it is absurd how we just expect people to lose weight instantaiously, and judge them if it doesn't haoppen fast enough.
Nobody is saying it has to happen instantly. You're hyperbolizing to make it appear harder than it actually is.
Also, how many drop-outs end up working fast food, instead of being CEOs. how many would-be-inventors just give up entirely?
I don't know, but I know one thing: it's their loss.
We live in a society of instant gratification, and the overweight are generally people who are even more prone to fallingto that trap than the rest. You're ask for someone who is used to doingwhat feels good right now to make gigantic changes in their life style because of what might happen to them thirty years down the road.
I'm not asking for gigantic changes overnight. The best way to go about it is to make slow changes, and gradually change your lifestyle for a healthier one.
Don't you think that there might be a more constructive way to help them than to scream "FATTY-FATTY-FAT-FAT" at them if they don't lose the weight fast enough?
Well, of course there is. I never supported screaming FATTY-FATTY-FAT-FAT, so I don't see why you would say this, though.
I went to go join a gym, but I accidentally got hired by a Fortune 500.
Then I suddenly had the inspiration for a product called SexPants. They are pants that have sex with you while you wear them.
Have all the sex you want. It won't stop heart failure at an early age from your dining and fitness habits.
What exactly do people mean when they say "early age?" I've seen people that claim being obese shaves 20 years on average off of your life span, while others say that it's less than 5. I don't recall ever seeing a specific number...
Look. In any area in life, for pretty much everything, people don't want you to succeed. They'll try to sabotage your progress, and they will secretly hate you if they fail to do so.
But these are all things that test your resolve, nothing more. In the end, it is all up to you. There are high school dropouts who have risen up to be CEOs of Fortune 500s. There are inventors who failed 9,999 times before they succeeded. I mean, once you think about things in perspective, losing a hundred pounds is a fucking cake-walk.
You have a really creepy outlook on life. I'd also go so far as to say it's objectively wrong. There are a lot of things you can do to increase your chance of being a CEO, sure, but it's not a decision you make.
As Henry Ford said once:
"Whether you think you can or cannot do it, you're probably right."
Most major obstacles on the road to accomplishment are in people's heads.
No, honestly, first and foremost I'm not making excuses for myself. Like I said, I am Muddling through, partially because I'm taking everything in slow steps, since my concern IS my future health, and not something dumb like slimming down for bathing suit season.
But, just because the common reasons why people don't make it aren't good enough excuses in your eyes doesn't mean that they don't still stop people. No one said that YOU had to be concerned with these people's weight issues; all I've been saying is that if you choose to be concerned, you should focus on constructive ways to help them, rather than thinking that adding negative stigma to weight, and putting more pressure on them.
I have a friend who was once told by a guy, at the end of a blind date, "I'm sorry, but I don't normally date girls as big as you."
ege02, what do you think about claims that overweight and obese people who exercise regularly but still don't lose much weight can be relatively healthy?
ege02, what do you think about claims that overweight and obese people who exercise regularly but still don't lose much weight can be relatively healthy?
I went to go join a gym, but I accidentally got hired by a Fortune 500.
Then I suddenly had the inspiration for a product called SexPants. They are pants that have sex with you while you wear them.
Have all the sex you want. It won't stop heart failure at an early age from your dining and fitness habits.
What exactly do people mean when they say "early age?" I've seen people that claim being obese shaves 20 years on average off of your life span, while others say that it's less than 5. I don't recall ever seeing a specific number...
I think you'd be hard pressed to support an argument that shows that people who are overweight are living healthy life styles. It's a simple fact that being unhealthy puts you at risk to a slew of medical complications. I'll gladly spend a bit of time at the gym bettering myself it it will grant me as little as another year on this planet.
DasUberEdward on
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
I know personally that when I weighed the appropriate weight for my height (6ft), I looked anorexic. I felt far more comfortable with myself with just a few extra pounds on. Unfortunately for me, my doctors always go by the BMI chart, and so they basically call me fatty every time I see them.
My doctor touts BMI as the end-all be-all of being in shape - my BMI is like 43 or something, but my actual percentage (with the calipers and such) is 'only' about 22- fatter then I want to be but barely overweight, medically speaking. The BMI is a crude height weight chart compiled when people were a very different size - which is why it particularly breaks down for taller people.
I also have really big arms, and he took my blood pressure with a cuff with a max arm diameter of 13 inches and as a result he put me on blood pressure medicine I didn't need and nearly killed me.
Then he wants to know why I don't come in every quarter for a checkup.
But, just because the common reasons why people don't make it aren't good enough excuses in your eyes doesn't mean that they don't still stop people. No one said that YOU had to be concerned with these people's weight issues; all I've been saying is that if you choose to be concerned, you should focus on constructive ways to help them, rather than thinking that adding negative stigma to weight, and putting more pressure on them.
So you're a big girl? Alright, I'm curious: How's your health? Are your cholesterol, blood pressure, and sugar levels normal?
My dad's 40 and weighs around 250 pounds (although a few years ago he was 300). He eats a lot of chips, drinks about 5 servings of diet drinks a day, and his parents make home cooked meals that are loaded with grease (seriously, one time at my grandmother's house she gave me bologna to eat that was soaking in 2 inches of grease!), so I'm sure he didn't eat very healthy food growing up. Despite all this, his health is in the ideal range. Cholesterol, blood sugar, blood pressure, all normal. For accuracy, his cholesterol is 115.
Meanwhile, my mother is 41 and weighs 120. She eats much healthier than my dad and exercises, while not regularly, much more often that my dad does. However, she is in terrible health. She has to take medication to slow her heart rate. While not a diabetic, her blood sugar bottoms out fairly often. She has terrible arthritis, and her back hurts often due to a slipped intervertebral disc. Her cholesterol is much higher than my dad's as well: although it's 190 now, a few months ago it was 230. She has endured an unreal amount of stress over the last 20 years: she believes that no one treats her fairly, and people on both sides of my family always run to her for help with their problems.
I know this is anecdotal evidence, but I still think it illustrates that weight isn't the end all be all of health. Fat people can be healthy, and thin people can be sickly. I personally believe that genetics and stress levels are far more important in a person's health than body weight. I also believe that regular exercise is important, and that your diet should be relatively healthy.
Of course, I'm biased. I have a preference for big girls (160-230 pounds, depending on body type), so of course I want to hear that being overweight isn't as bad for you as people are led to believe. However, I also don't believe in having blind faith. Because experts range from "being fat is second only to smoking in mortality" to "it's best to be thin and fit, but fit and fat people are healthier than thin couch potatoes", I'm not totally convinced that excess body fat is as dangerous as people make it out to be.
ege02, what do you think about claims that overweight and obese people who exercise regularly but still don't lose much weight can be relatively healthy?
Fat people can be healthy, and thin people can be sickly.
I... I thought this was a no-brainer.
Because experts range from "being fat is second only to smoking in mortality" to "it's best to be thin and fit, but fit and fat people are healthier than thin couch potatoes"
Just like experts range from "global warming is very real and it poses a serious threat" to "global warming is a myth".
ege02 on
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
Fat people can be healthy, and thin people can be sickly.
I... I thought this was a no-brainer.
Because experts range from "being fat is second only to smoking in mortality" to "it's best to be thin and fit, but fit and fat people are healthier than thin couch potatoes"
Just like experts range from "global warming is very real and it poses a serious threat" to "global warming is a myth".
Yeah, JUST like that, actually, and JUST LIKE THAT no one will ever explain it besides saying "My scientist has a whiter coat"
hope you don't mind if I don't feel like posting up exact numbers, but my cholestoral, blood pressure, etc., usually seems to stay right around the edge of "acceptable", as in, every time I'm told I need to be careful or else things will get bad, but I never seem to actually cross the danger line.
Not the best place to be, and I'd rather not be there (just to be clear that I'm not bragging) but the fact that it seems consistantly steady, rather than fluctuating between good and bad, is enought o keep me confident that I'm not actively killing myself, at leats not yet.
as far as women, I've never dated a tiny girl, and honestly I'd be afraid to break her. I may not like them quite as big as you do, but there needs to be at least a bit of substance there. When I put my arms around her I don't want her to slip between them and fall on the floor, you know.
The whole idea of body image in realation to media is something I'm suprised we haven't touched on here.
And duder, nobody wants to hear about your mom's loose stools.
I went to go join a gym, but I accidentally got hired by a Fortune 500.
Then I suddenly had the inspiration for a product called SexPants. They are pants that have sex with you while you wear them.
Have all the sex you want. It won't stop heart failure at an early age from your dining and fitness habits.
What exactly do people mean when they say "early age?" I've seen people that claim being obese shaves 20 years on average off of your life span, while others say that it's less than 5. I don't recall ever seeing a specific number...
I think you'd be hard pressed to support an argument that shows that people who are overweight are living healthy life styles. It's a simple fact that being unhealthy puts you at risk to a slew of medical complications. I'll gladly spend a bit of time at the gym bettering myself it it will grant me as little as another year on this planet.
I'll concede that the majority of fat people are probably unhealthy, but I'll also argue that the majority of thin people are unhealthy, too. It's just that fat people are always associated with being slothful gluttons, so you notice it more when they buy a pack of cookies or eat a burger. When a thin person does it, though, you barely notice.
I've read articles regarding weight loss before stating that even a 15-pound weight loss significantly improves health. To me at least, it seems more likely that the exercise is what's improving their health, not their weight loss.
So, if a person exercises and loses weight, good for them: they'll escape the stigma associated with being heavy. If another person exercises the same amount and doesn't lose much, if any, weight, then I'd be inclined to believe that they are still living healthier than before.
BTW, didn't we pretty much come to the conclusion that 30 minutes of cardio exercise daily offsets much of the adverse health effects of a poor diet? If I'm not mistaken and we did, this lends a bit of credibility to my position.
Fat people can be healthy, and thin people can be sickly.
I... I thought this was a no-brainer.
Because experts range from "being fat is second only to smoking in mortality" to "it's best to be thin and fit, but fit and fat people are healthier than thin couch potatoes"
Just like experts range from "global warming is very real and it poses a serious threat" to "global warming is a myth".
Yeah, JUST like that, actually, and JUST LIKE THAT no one will ever explain it besides saying "My scientist has a whiter coat"
I'll concede that the majority of fat people are probably unhealthy, but I'll also argue that the majority of thin people are unhealthy, too.
People who are super-thin are unhealthy, yes. Yet another no-brainer from windbit: extremities are always unhealthy!
It's just that fat people are always associated with being slothful gluttons, so you notice it more when they buy a pack of cookies or eat a burger. When a thin person does it, though, you barely notice.
There is a difference between eating junk food for every meal and eating junk food every now and then. When a fat person buys junk food, it is noticed because it is probably not their first junk meal of the day. And I don't know about other people but I give my friends shit for eating crap regardless of how much they weigh.
I've read articles regarding weight loss before stating that even a 15-pound weight loss significantly improves health. To me at least, it seems more likely that the exercise is what's improving their health, not their weight loss.
How do you figure?
So, if a person exercises and loses weight, good for them: they'll escape the stigma associated with being heavy. If another person exercises the same amount and doesn't lose much, if any, weight, then I'd be inclined to believe that they are still living healthier than before.
You're inclined to believe a lot of things that justify your personal taste in fat girls, aren't you?
BTW, didn't we pretty much come to the conclusion that 30 minutes of cardio exercise daily offsets much of the adverse health effects of a poor diet? If I'm not mistaken and we did, this lends a bit of credibility to my position.
When did we do that?
Doing 30 minutes of cardio doesn't give you an excuse to eat like shit.
Overweight children, I think, is almost certainly a sign of something not being right with the parenting.
Tell that to my brother who has poor metabolism and gains weight extremely easily, to the point where if he slips once on any diet, like, one or two cookies, he literally will gain a few pounds from that alone.
First off, that is physicially impossible. As in it violates the conservation of energy. There is no way to turn 2 ounces of cookie into two pounds of fat.
Secondly, barring a few very fucking rare disorders your metabolism is very flexible. Dieting (among other things) is the quickest way to make it slow down. Getting of your fat ass and exercising not only burns calories but raises your general metabolic rate.
Tell your brother to eat a reasonable diet and get some aerobic exercise every day. Couple months and he'll start shedding pounds like mad and keep em off.
I know throwing my hands up and blaming it on my genes isn't going to help, but I dislike how I could be thought of as weak willed by an ass with a six pack who's never been to a gym. It's frustrating, is all.
Fat people can be healthy, and thin people can be sickly.
I... I thought this was a no-brainer.
Not from what I've heard.
Honestly, I thought that you were in the "FAT KILLS KITTENS!" crowd. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.
Woo strawman. If being a fatass gives you a 60% increased chance of X that doesn't mean every fatty will have X. This is the difference between your anecdote and actual evidence (I hate the term "anecdotal evidence").
The problem is that while you may know one of the many who have a risk factor and yet remains healthy, over time there is a definite and measurable risk in the incidence of disease in society. Not only does this directly divert limited, highly valuable resources away from those with much less easily preventable conditions it removes a potentially useful member of society from the workforce and puts a huge drain on the productivty of their immediate family.
Being morbidly obese not only signifigantly reduces ones probable lifespan it just as signifigantly lowers the age at which you no longer can contribute to society. From a more selfish point of view (if you are the baby boomer type and just figures to hell with society, I'M WHO MATTERS) it makes your short ass life that much less pleasant. Being a fatty now directly increases your odds of spending years with painful and debilitating health problems.
Overweight children, I think, is almost certainly a sign of something not being right with the parenting.
Tell that to my brother who has poor metabolism and gains weight extremely easily, to the point where if he slips once on any diet, like, one or two cookies, he literally will gain a few pounds from that alone.
1) I qualified my statement, as you may notice above. Of course some people just have really, really shitty genes. I suspect that this is not the case for a significant number of exceptionally hefty tykes.
2) Parents are capable of having a significant amount of control over their children, both in terms of specific restrictions on diet and specific encouragements for certain activities, as well as in the formulation of healthy habits.
Fat people can be healthy, and thin people can be sickly.
I... I thought this was a no-brainer.
Not from what I've heard.
Honestly, I thought that you were in the "FAT KILLS KITTENS!" crowd. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.
Woo strawman. If being a fatass gives you a 60% increased chance of X that doesn't mean every fatty will have X. This is the difference between your anecdote and actual evidence (I hate the term "anecdotal evidence").
The problem is that while you may know one of the many who have a risk factor and yet remains healthy, over time there is a definite and measurable risk in the incidence of disease in society. Not only does this directly divert limited, highly valuable resources away from those with much less easily preventable conditions it removes a potentially useful member of society from the workforce and puts a huge drain on the productivty of their immediate family.
Being morbidly obese not only signifigantly reduces ones probable lifespan it just as signifigantly lowers the age at which you no longer can contribute to society. From a more selfish point of view (if you are the baby boomer type and just figures to hell with society, I'M WHO MATTERS) it makes your short ass life that much less pleasant. Being a fatty now directly increases your odds of spending years with painful and debilitating health problems.
I have a problem with your argument.
Do you think non-Baby Boomers think "I should keep in shape so that I can increase the age for which I can contribute to society,"?
I don't know what kind of Brave New World you're living in.
Fat people can be healthy, and thin people can be sickly.
I... I thought this was a no-brainer.
Not from what I've heard.
Honestly, I thought that you were in the "FAT KILLS KITTENS!" crowd. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.
Woo strawman. If being a fatass gives you a 60% increased chance of X that doesn't mean every fatty will have X. This is the difference between your anecdote and actual evidence (I hate the term "anecdotal evidence").
The problem is that while you may know one of the many who have a risk factor and yet remains healthy, over time there is a definite and measurable risk in the incidence of disease in society. Not only does this directly divert limited, highly valuable resources away from those with much less easily preventable conditions it removes a potentially useful member of society from the workforce and puts a huge drain on the productivty of their immediate family.
Being morbidly obese not only signifigantly reduces ones probable lifespan it just as signifigantly lowers the age at which you no longer can contribute to society. From a more selfish point of view (if you are the baby boomer type and just figures to hell with society, I'M WHO MATTERS) it makes your short ass life that much less pleasant. Being a fatty now directly increases your odds of spending years with painful and debilitating health problems.
I have a problem with your argument.
Do you think non-Baby Boomers think "I should keep in shape so that I can increase the age for which I can contribute to society,"?
I don't know what kind of Brave New World you're living in.
Of course not. But if they were not a dumbass they would think "I should keep in shape so that I can increase the age at which I spend a large portion of my time and energy dealing with being in chronic pain". Its a selfish act which has the side benefit of being good for ones family and society at large.
At the same time it is an act which requires willpower and long term planning which most people seem to be completely incapable of.
I've talked to girls who like fat guys, yes. In fact, when my mom figured out that I liked big girls, she told me that the daughter of one of her coworkers likes guys who are pushing 300.
On the topic of lifespan, even if being overweight reduces your life expectancy somewhat, even morbidly obese individuals are living longer on average than the typical person was 50 years ago. And that's just right now. Within 50 years the life expectancy may very well increase another 10 years (I know, "this may be the first generation to die before their parents"; people were predicting doom and gloom about obesity before 2000, and so far there hasn't been a decrease in life expectancy yet).
Also, the average person's weight hasn't increased but by a few pounds in the last few decades, and some of that extra weight could be attributed to the fact that the average person's height also increased by a few inches. The relatively few American citizens who are extremely obese are probably making the average higher than it should be, anyway.
Another thing: Despite the increase in weight, heart disease and diabetes rates have been consistently decreasing for decades. If the obesity epidemic is proof that the rates of diabetes and heart disease will skyrocket, the current data doesn't reflect that.
Oh, and in the words of Uncle, "One more thing:" Males have always had a shorter life expectancy than females. Does that mean we should inhibit our testosterone levels to ensure a few extra years of life? Auto accidents are one of the leading causes of death and crippling accidents. Maybe we shouldn't drive anymore? Sunlight causes cancer. Do you put on sunscreen every single time you go outside? Do you even put it on at all besides when you go swimming? If you want to significantly decrease your chance of getting cancer, better apply sunscreen at least once a day, everyday. Come to think of it, why haven't we banned tanning beds?! They're known to contribute to skin cancer, and yet we still allow women (and some men) to expose themselves to these cancer-ray* blasting machinations! I mean, come on, the risks of being overweight don't even usually show up until you're in your 50's. But cancer-rays* can get you at any time!
*Cancer-rays is a trademark of Windbit and may not be used without express written consent.
I've talked to girls who like fat guys, yes. In fact, when my mom figured out that I liked big girls, she told me that the daughter of one of her coworkers likes guys who are pushing 300.
EDIT: I mean, I can understand enjoying some padding, but that's just enjoying morbid obesity.
I am tall and thin. My brother is dangerously fat (like skating on the edges of type 2 diabetes dangerously). I hang out with the cool kids
drug addicts, strippers, circus folk
. My brother is a dungeon master (not the cool kind with the leather and shit, the kind with the graph paper and complex rule books). My brother has a cool as hell girlfriend. I am alone.
So so alone
My brother's girlfriends are always skinny although the latest one he is fattening up. I think they've both given up and figure more pie is worth shaving a couple years off their stint here.
themightypuck on
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
― Marcus Aurelius
Fevered ranting in which windbit shows he has no fucking idea how statistics work.
Look, its not about living longer. Who wants to live to be 100 if for half of that time your life sucks do to disease? Its about prolonging the period in which you are still healthy. That is the real goal of doctors working in the field of longevity. "ololol people will live to be 150" gets the headlines but the real science is directed at trying to keep people who are 60 feeling like they did at 40.
And being obese is really cranks up the risk factor for feeling like you are 85 when you are 50. Everyone dies. And everyone who lives long enough must face the inevitable deterioration of their body. Being obese hastens along that deterioration to an increible degree.
Windbit, before you subject us to more of your fevered rantings (or, god forbid, yet another thread) please take a look at some of the recent series on longevity (the Charlie Rose Science Series) here: http://www.charlierose.com/home
There are interviews with some of the smartest people in the world in there. Listen to what they are saying about the risks of obesity.
There are interviews with some of the smartest people in the world in there. Listen to what they are saying about the risks of obesity.
This is a dangerous yet understandable logical blunder. I recommend www.arthurdevany.com if you want a nice iconoclastic view of things although you need to put up with crazy bitter old dude stuff, double standards, and knee jerk right wing out of the blue polemics. Still, the guy is like 70 and looks great. He may be the new Jack Lalane.
themightypuck on
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
― Marcus Aurelius
And yes, surprise surprise, in America we regard self-destructive tendencies and failing to maximize ones' potential as moral failings. We chide those who drop out of school; we chide smokers; we chide the fat - both because it's unhealthy and because it makes them unattractive; we chide the poor - because certainly if they'd just worked harder they'd be rich.
I'm not sure if you meant to make it sound like our stigmatization of things like obesity and smoking is comparable to our stigmatization of being poor, but if you did, that's pretty dumb.
I think they're related. I'm not sure if by comparable you mean "equally meritable" or "equally fair" or "equally intense," but I think the root of the disdain is similar.
Also, I'm skeptical that we're stigmatizing obesity more now than we used to. Being a big fat ass is increasingly trying to be sold to us as a valid lifestyle choice, and the whole "big is beautiful" meme seems to be well-established. Don't dis on me because I way 300 pounds, that just means there's more of me to love, men like a woman with some meat on her bones, don'tcha know, etc.
It seems to be a fairly divided demographic, and I can only really imagine that this "fat is beautiful" thing is pretty much targeted at and subscribed to by the already obese. I can't imagine someone fit seeing a fat acceptance video and saying "you know, they're right, plus the gym sucks. I'm going fat!"
Wait till "they" link obesity and global warming. Fat people have a larger carbon footprint because they have more body mass... :x
They already have, actually. Interestingly, they've also linked exercise to global warming: when people exercise, they produce carbon dioxide at a greater rate. However, the study that brought that up pointed out that the increase in carbon dioxide created by both exercise and obesity are negligible compared to other causes.
I've talked to girls who like fat guys, yes. In fact, when my mom figured out that I liked big girls, she told me that the daughter of one of her coworkers likes guys who are pushing 300.
EDIT: I mean, I can understand enjoying some padding, but that's just enjoying morbid obesity.
Well, I like overweight girls, and I beat myself up about it pretty badly in a recent topic until I realized that a) Not all fat girls are guaranteed to have health problems b) I prefer girls that don't have big stomaches (and by big, I mean a huge gut the flows well over the waistband; a chubby belly is OK) so they're not as at high a risk statistically c) they're going to be heavy whether I date them or not, and d) stressing out about my preference will only cause my health to decline, too.
In the case of that other girl, yes, being obese undoubtedly increases your risk for several health problems (although it is debatable to what extent), but it's better for a fat guy lover and a fat guy to be happy together than to be miserable apart, isn't it?
Fevered ranting in which windbit shows he has no fucking idea how statistics work.
Look, its not about living longer. Who wants to live to be 100 if for half of that time your life sucks do to disease? Its about prolonging the period in which you are still healthy. That is the real goal of doctors working in the field of longevity. "ololol people will live to be 150" gets the headlines but the real science is directed at trying to keep people who are 60 feeling like they did at 40.
Even if you keep your weight down, you're not guaranteed better health. Car accidents, UV radiation, air pollution, contaminants in food, AIDS, even your genetic code for Dawkins sake! Smoked a bong once? Cancer, bitch! Everything's out to get us! The majority of Americans may be at least slightly overweight by current standards, but there are relatively few massive, 500 pound people who can barely move out there, and many of those extreme cases are probably that size because of a medical condition. I mean, really, how many people do you see daily who are obviously suffering from a poor quality of life due to their massive body? I might see two or three in a month.
The quality of life is significantly better now that it has ever been. I've read this once, and I think it applies: "If the greatest health threat to a society is that they're eating too much, then they must be doing something right."
Posts
Please stop spouting bullshit, and read this article.
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It's not a matter of laziness as much as a matter of lack of willpower.
As for pitfalls, those are excuses. Honestly, if you're complaining that you can't lose weight because pieces of candy keep magically appearing on your desk, you're fucked up.
Nobody is saying it has to happen instantly. You're hyperbolizing to make it appear harder than it actually is.
I don't know, but I know one thing: it's their loss.
I'm not asking for gigantic changes overnight. The best way to go about it is to make slow changes, and gradually change your lifestyle for a healthier one.
Well, of course there is. I never supported screaming FATTY-FATTY-FAT-FAT, so I don't see why you would say this, though.
What exactly do people mean when they say "early age?" I've seen people that claim being obese shaves 20 years on average off of your life span, while others say that it's less than 5. I don't recall ever seeing a specific number...
I am reletively proportional to a "normal" human being (arm length is actually a big more) just a large version. I am, quite litterally, big-boned.
I am ALSO fat, but that is a seperate thing entirely. once I get the fat gone, I will still have abnormally large bones.
WHich is why my BMI results will be hilarious.
As Henry Ford said once:
"Whether you think you can or cannot do it, you're probably right."
Most major obstacles on the road to accomplishment are in people's heads.
Stop yelling at me!
No, honestly, first and foremost I'm not making excuses for myself. Like I said, I am Muddling through, partially because I'm taking everything in slow steps, since my concern IS my future health, and not something dumb like slimming down for bathing suit season.
But, just because the common reasons why people don't make it aren't good enough excuses in your eyes doesn't mean that they don't still stop people. No one said that YOU had to be concerned with these people's weight issues; all I've been saying is that if you choose to be concerned, you should focus on constructive ways to help them, rather than thinking that adding negative stigma to weight, and putting more pressure on them.
I have a friend who was once told by a guy, at the end of a blind date, "I'm sorry, but I don't normally date girls as big as you."
Can't we all PLEASE have some tact?
ege02, what do you think about claims that overweight and obese people who exercise regularly but still don't lose much weight can be relatively healthy?
I'm not a doctor.
I think you'd be hard pressed to support an argument that shows that people who are overweight are living healthy life styles. It's a simple fact that being unhealthy puts you at risk to a slew of medical complications. I'll gladly spend a bit of time at the gym bettering myself it it will grant me as little as another year on this planet.
My doctor touts BMI as the end-all be-all of being in shape - my BMI is like 43 or something, but my actual percentage (with the calipers and such) is 'only' about 22- fatter then I want to be but barely overweight, medically speaking. The BMI is a crude height weight chart compiled when people were a very different size - which is why it particularly breaks down for taller people.
I also have really big arms, and he took my blood pressure with a cuff with a max arm diameter of 13 inches and as a result he put me on blood pressure medicine I didn't need and nearly killed me.
Then he wants to know why I don't come in every quarter for a checkup.
I host a podcast about movies.
So you're a big girl? Alright, I'm curious: How's your health? Are your cholesterol, blood pressure, and sugar levels normal?
My dad's 40 and weighs around 250 pounds (although a few years ago he was 300). He eats a lot of chips, drinks about 5 servings of diet drinks a day, and his parents make home cooked meals that are loaded with grease (seriously, one time at my grandmother's house she gave me bologna to eat that was soaking in 2 inches of grease!), so I'm sure he didn't eat very healthy food growing up. Despite all this, his health is in the ideal range. Cholesterol, blood sugar, blood pressure, all normal. For accuracy, his cholesterol is 115.
Meanwhile, my mother is 41 and weighs 120. She eats much healthier than my dad and exercises, while not regularly, much more often that my dad does. However, she is in terrible health. She has to take medication to slow her heart rate. While not a diabetic, her blood sugar bottoms out fairly often. She has terrible arthritis, and her back hurts often due to a slipped intervertebral disc. Her cholesterol is much higher than my dad's as well: although it's 190 now, a few months ago it was 230. She has endured an unreal amount of stress over the last 20 years: she believes that no one treats her fairly, and people on both sides of my family always run to her for help with their problems.
I know this is anecdotal evidence, but I still think it illustrates that weight isn't the end all be all of health. Fat people can be healthy, and thin people can be sickly. I personally believe that genetics and stress levels are far more important in a person's health than body weight. I also believe that regular exercise is important, and that your diet should be relatively healthy.
Of course, I'm biased. I have a preference for big girls (160-230 pounds, depending on body type), so of course I want to hear that being overweight isn't as bad for you as people are led to believe. However, I also don't believe in having blind faith. Because experts range from "being fat is second only to smoking in mortality" to "it's best to be thin and fit, but fit and fat people are healthier than thin couch potatoes", I'm not totally convinced that excess body fat is as dangerous as people make it out to be.
But...
what...
then...
and...
told me to turn my head and cough...
*sputter*
*sputter*
*sputter*
I... I thought this was a no-brainer.
Just like experts range from "global warming is very real and it poses a serious threat" to "global warming is a myth".
Yeah, JUST like that, actually, and JUST LIKE THAT no one will ever explain it besides saying "My scientist has a whiter coat"
I host a podcast about movies.
Not the best place to be, and I'd rather not be there (just to be clear that I'm not bragging) but the fact that it seems consistantly steady, rather than fluctuating between good and bad, is enought o keep me confident that I'm not actively killing myself, at leats not yet.
as far as women, I've never dated a tiny girl, and honestly I'd be afraid to break her. I may not like them quite as big as you do, but there needs to be at least a bit of substance there. When I put my arms around her I don't want her to slip between them and fall on the floor, you know.
The whole idea of body image in realation to media is something I'm suprised we haven't touched on here.
And duder, nobody wants to hear about your mom's loose stools.
I'll concede that the majority of fat people are probably unhealthy, but I'll also argue that the majority of thin people are unhealthy, too. It's just that fat people are always associated with being slothful gluttons, so you notice it more when they buy a pack of cookies or eat a burger. When a thin person does it, though, you barely notice.
I've read articles regarding weight loss before stating that even a 15-pound weight loss significantly improves health. To me at least, it seems more likely that the exercise is what's improving their health, not their weight loss.
So, if a person exercises and loses weight, good for them: they'll escape the stigma associated with being heavy. If another person exercises the same amount and doesn't lose much, if any, weight, then I'd be inclined to believe that they are still living healthier than before.
BTW, didn't we pretty much come to the conclusion that 30 minutes of cardio exercise daily offsets much of the adverse health effects of a poor diet? If I'm not mistaken and we did, this lends a bit of credibility to my position.
my scientist has a more eccentric haircut
Oh, heh heh, yeah, I can see how that would be TMI... I went back and deleted that from my post.
Not from what I've heard.
Honestly, I thought that you were in the "FAT KILLS KITTENS!" crowd. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.
People who are super-thin are unhealthy, yes. Yet another no-brainer from windbit: extremities are always unhealthy!
There is a difference between eating junk food for every meal and eating junk food every now and then. When a fat person buys junk food, it is noticed because it is probably not their first junk meal of the day. And I don't know about other people but I give my friends shit for eating crap regardless of how much they weigh.
How do you figure?
You're inclined to believe a lot of things that justify your personal taste in fat girls, aren't you?
When did we do that?
Doing 30 minutes of cardio doesn't give you an excuse to eat like shit.
First off, that is physicially impossible. As in it violates the conservation of energy. There is no way to turn 2 ounces of cookie into two pounds of fat.
Secondly, barring a few very fucking rare disorders your metabolism is very flexible. Dieting (among other things) is the quickest way to make it slow down. Getting of your fat ass and exercising not only burns calories but raises your general metabolic rate.
Tell your brother to eat a reasonable diet and get some aerobic exercise every day. Couple months and he'll start shedding pounds like mad and keep em off.
Just wait until they hit their late 20s.
That's like asking where all the moderately overweight male erotic dancers are.
I just doesn't happen.
Woo strawman. If being a fatass gives you a 60% increased chance of X that doesn't mean every fatty will have X. This is the difference between your anecdote and actual evidence (I hate the term "anecdotal evidence").
The problem is that while you may know one of the many who have a risk factor and yet remains healthy, over time there is a definite and measurable risk in the incidence of disease in society. Not only does this directly divert limited, highly valuable resources away from those with much less easily preventable conditions it removes a potentially useful member of society from the workforce and puts a huge drain on the productivty of their immediate family.
Being morbidly obese not only signifigantly reduces ones probable lifespan it just as signifigantly lowers the age at which you no longer can contribute to society. From a more selfish point of view (if you are the baby boomer type and just figures to hell with society, I'M WHO MATTERS) it makes your short ass life that much less pleasant. Being a fatty now directly increases your odds of spending years with painful and debilitating health problems.
1) I qualified my statement, as you may notice above. Of course some people just have really, really shitty genes. I suspect that this is not the case for a significant number of exceptionally hefty tykes.
2) Parents are capable of having a significant amount of control over their children, both in terms of specific restrictions on diet and specific encouragements for certain activities, as well as in the formulation of healthy habits.
I have a problem with your argument.
Do you think non-Baby Boomers think "I should keep in shape so that I can increase the age for which I can contribute to society,"?
I don't know what kind of Brave New World you're living in.
Of course not. But if they were not a dumbass they would think "I should keep in shape so that I can increase the age at which I spend a large portion of my time and energy dealing with being in chronic pain". Its a selfish act which has the side benefit of being good for ones family and society at large.
At the same time it is an act which requires willpower and long term planning which most people seem to be completely incapable of.
I've talked to girls who like fat guys, yes. In fact, when my mom figured out that I liked big girls, she told me that the daughter of one of her coworkers likes guys who are pushing 300.
On the topic of lifespan, even if being overweight reduces your life expectancy somewhat, even morbidly obese individuals are living longer on average than the typical person was 50 years ago. And that's just right now. Within 50 years the life expectancy may very well increase another 10 years (I know, "this may be the first generation to die before their parents"; people were predicting doom and gloom about obesity before 2000, and so far there hasn't been a decrease in life expectancy yet).
Also, the average person's weight hasn't increased but by a few pounds in the last few decades, and some of that extra weight could be attributed to the fact that the average person's height also increased by a few inches. The relatively few American citizens who are extremely obese are probably making the average higher than it should be, anyway.
Another thing: Despite the increase in weight, heart disease and diabetes rates have been consistently decreasing for decades. If the obesity epidemic is proof that the rates of diabetes and heart disease will skyrocket, the current data doesn't reflect that.
Oh, and in the words of Uncle, "One more thing:" Males have always had a shorter life expectancy than females. Does that mean we should inhibit our testosterone levels to ensure a few extra years of life? Auto accidents are one of the leading causes of death and crippling accidents. Maybe we shouldn't drive anymore? Sunlight causes cancer. Do you put on sunscreen every single time you go outside? Do you even put it on at all besides when you go swimming? If you want to significantly decrease your chance of getting cancer, better apply sunscreen at least once a day, everyday. Come to think of it, why haven't we banned tanning beds?! They're known to contribute to skin cancer, and yet we still allow women (and some men) to expose themselves to these cancer-ray* blasting machinations! I mean, come on, the risks of being overweight don't even usually show up until you're in your 50's. But cancer-rays* can get you at any time!
* Cancer-rays is a trademark of Windbit and may not be used without express written consent.
EDIT: I mean, I can understand enjoying some padding, but that's just enjoying morbid obesity.
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
Look, its not about living longer. Who wants to live to be 100 if for half of that time your life sucks do to disease? Its about prolonging the period in which you are still healthy. That is the real goal of doctors working in the field of longevity. "ololol people will live to be 150" gets the headlines but the real science is directed at trying to keep people who are 60 feeling like they did at 40.
And being obese is really cranks up the risk factor for feeling like you are 85 when you are 50. Everyone dies. And everyone who lives long enough must face the inevitable deterioration of their body. Being obese hastens along that deterioration to an increible degree.
Windbit, before you subject us to more of your fevered rantings (or, god forbid, yet another thread) please take a look at some of the recent series on longevity (the Charlie Rose Science Series) here: http://www.charlierose.com/home
There are interviews with some of the smartest people in the world in there. Listen to what they are saying about the risks of obesity.
This is a dangerous yet understandable logical blunder. I recommend www.arthurdevany.com if you want a nice iconoclastic view of things although you need to put up with crazy bitter old dude stuff, double standards, and knee jerk right wing out of the blue polemics. Still, the guy is like 70 and looks great. He may be the new Jack Lalane.
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
I think they're related. I'm not sure if by comparable you mean "equally meritable" or "equally fair" or "equally intense," but I think the root of the disdain is similar.
It seems to be a fairly divided demographic, and I can only really imagine that this "fat is beautiful" thing is pretty much targeted at and subscribed to by the already obese. I can't imagine someone fit seeing a fat acceptance video and saying "you know, they're right, plus the gym sucks. I'm going fat!"
They already have, actually. Interestingly, they've also linked exercise to global warming: when people exercise, they produce carbon dioxide at a greater rate. However, the study that brought that up pointed out that the increase in carbon dioxide created by both exercise and obesity are negligible compared to other causes.
Well, I like overweight girls, and I beat myself up about it pretty badly in a recent topic until I realized that a) Not all fat girls are guaranteed to have health problems b) I prefer girls that don't have big stomaches (and by big, I mean a huge gut the flows well over the waistband; a chubby belly is OK) so they're not as at high a risk statistically c) they're going to be heavy whether I date them or not, and d) stressing out about my preference will only cause my health to decline, too.
In the case of that other girl, yes, being obese undoubtedly increases your risk for several health problems (although it is debatable to what extent), but it's better for a fat guy lover and a fat guy to be happy together than to be miserable apart, isn't it?
Even if you keep your weight down, you're not guaranteed better health. Car accidents, UV radiation, air pollution, contaminants in food, AIDS, even your genetic code for Dawkins sake! Smoked a bong once? Cancer, bitch! Everything's out to get us! The majority of Americans may be at least slightly overweight by current standards, but there are relatively few massive, 500 pound people who can barely move out there, and many of those extreme cases are probably that size because of a medical condition. I mean, really, how many people do you see daily who are obviously suffering from a poor quality of life due to their massive body? I might see two or three in a month.
The quality of life is significantly better now that it has ever been. I've read this once, and I think it applies: "If the greatest health threat to a society is that they're eating too much, then they must be doing something right."
I don't know why but I laughed out loud at this...