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G&T: Community Versus Content
TxdoHawk
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'm actually a bit suprised nobody's opened a post about this topic. If some G&T mod was all like "No arguing about this, at all" I apologize, but I saw nothing in the new stickies.
I'm not here to argue really, anyway. Not directly against the new moves, at least. I agree that the chat thread has long, long outlived its viablility. When you have people who just roost in the chat thread and pick fights, never venturing outside of it, obviously there's a problem. I also agree that some of the members of certain console threads act like dicks towards dissenting opinions. I also don't have any arguments behind the general base logic of the decision. A flow of new users is vital to maintaining a good forum community, and if we want to ensure the forum's future we need to avoid scaring those people off.
However, I would argue that a solid base of regulars is also just as vital. A community bulletin board about Games and Technology is still a community, and some of that community aspect has to leak through serious discussion to maintain the board's health.
Is the idea of a rigidly on-topic forum nice on paper? Absolutely. But this is what bothers me, specifically:
I'm not going to even go into the fact that Gabe and Tycho both firmly insist on painting us as a mass of retards. Bottom line, the PA forums should not be a cute little showpiece to the industry. If this is seriously what this is all about, I would suggest a nice heavily-regulated "community site" filled with advertisement space, where people extol the virtues of Penny Arcade-approved games while they talk in their favorite advertiser-sponsored topics, and every post is screened for dissenting opinions. The industry will love it.
It will also not be anything remotely similar to G&T. We're a community forum full of sassy foul-mouthed dicks, with loud opinions that would make the average industry exec shit himself half to death twice in a 10-minute span. We are not generally industry-friendly and we are not going to magically become industry-friendly.
Again, while I agree with some of the decisions made, please don't go all the way down the slippery slope, and castrate the community aspect of G&T entirely when it's just a matter of smacking some of the stupider people in the head until they behave. Especially when it seems that the goal is to pare the forum down into some robotic discussion group lacking any human element so we can be showcased around to approving statements along the line of "Aw, aren't they cute and well-behaved."
I'm not here to argue really, anyway. Not directly against the new moves, at least. I agree that the chat thread has long, long outlived its viablility. When you have people who just roost in the chat thread and pick fights, never venturing outside of it, obviously there's a problem. I also agree that some of the members of certain console threads act like dicks towards dissenting opinions. I also don't have any arguments behind the general base logic of the decision. A flow of new users is vital to maintaining a good forum community, and if we want to ensure the forum's future we need to avoid scaring those people off.
However, I would argue that a solid base of regulars is also just as vital. A community bulletin board about Games and Technology is still a community, and some of that community aspect has to leak through serious discussion to maintain the board's health.
Is the idea of a rigidly on-topic forum nice on paper? Absolutely. But this is what bothers me, specifically:
I want a forum that Robert Khoo can be proud of. I want him to be able to take someone from the industry to, and be proud to say to them, ''These are my people.''
I'm not going to even go into the fact that Gabe and Tycho both firmly insist on painting us as a mass of retards. Bottom line, the PA forums should not be a cute little showpiece to the industry. If this is seriously what this is all about, I would suggest a nice heavily-regulated "community site" filled with advertisement space, where people extol the virtues of Penny Arcade-approved games while they talk in their favorite advertiser-sponsored topics, and every post is screened for dissenting opinions. The industry will love it.
It will also not be anything remotely similar to G&T. We're a community forum full of sassy foul-mouthed dicks, with loud opinions that would make the average industry exec shit himself half to death twice in a 10-minute span. We are not generally industry-friendly and we are not going to magically become industry-friendly.
Again, while I agree with some of the decisions made, please don't go all the way down the slippery slope, and castrate the community aspect of G&T entirely when it's just a matter of smacking some of the stupider people in the head until they behave. Especially when it seems that the goal is to pare the forum down into some robotic discussion group lacking any human element so we can be showcased around to approving statements along the line of "Aw, aren't they cute and well-behaved."
TxdoHawk on
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And, as for behavior we want to see, keep the brand name in mind: Penny Arcade. We WANT "sassy foul-mouthed dicks". Its part of the mandate, right next to machines that fuck fruit.
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Not that we're "better" than anyone else, but a lot of stupid shit that passes for conversation elsewhere just doesn't fly here
It just so happens that PA is the link that brings us all together, or some other hippie crap, I don't know
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In the end, only Khoo matters.
Fuck that man, we're totally better than them.
So how come Khoo never posts?
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Alpha is the board guy, technician and deals with server stuff.
Khoo helps Gabe and Tycho earn money, with PR and stuff.
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The reason Gabe and Tycho painted it like that is because Games and Tech EARNED that title from them. They didn't just do that for no reason.
If the mods are doing this in order to change that mentality, and get the PA forums back into line, and less segregationist..
Why did they do it in a way that instantly creates an "us versus them" mentality?
I'll cite examples of this if desired, but I hope that people, by this point, will have seen most of them.
how's that, rob
Silly.
Very, very Silly.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't the mods involved in this who created that mentality, unless Khoo finally bought us that mind-control hardware he's been promising for months. You crazy kids managed that all by your lonesomes.
Oh don't worry, I don't think anyone is blaming him.
I blame Whippy
I'm relatively new but I had absolutely no issue jumping right into the megathreads and I was recieved without nothing short of "hello, and welcome to the penny-arcade forums, thanks for not being a flaming moron"
If thats supposed to be this "xenophobic", "segragated", elitist group of jerks that makes Megathreads a killer... well then I don't think I'd have it any other way.
Not to mention the fact that you have the gall to tell us that we're all sitting around in some crazed circle jerk regarding TC, OTO, and PW. I mean sure I've seen a person or two get wailed on for posting "hay lolz, guess wat, Ouedan is the game of fags miright?" but I've yet to see anyone post anything intelligent or even just well thought out regarding any of the games in question, because I'm sure as hell that if someone actually made an intelligent post it wouldn't just be shat upon instantly like some retard's textual diareha is.
Summary:
This move is stupid.
The logic behind it is flawed.
The admins themselves are being rude and cliqueish in making this move.
It's the DS and 360 megathreads that got me out of lurking and into posting. It were also the threads that have made the PS forums a site a visit every day now.
These two threads are fantastic for all the stuff dedicated game or app threads can't cover. They cover the little games, niche stuff that doesn't immediatly find a big audience and allows it to grow. It also allows for casual discussion of older games. When a game is released in the US it'll receive a neat thread, by the time it get's released here in Europe that thread will have been pushed down and away by new threads. In the megathreads I can find opinions and information about these games and playing these games without digging into ancient past or doing somthing as radical is starting a new thread for a question of info that can't really support the need for a whole new thread.
The speculation threads though. Threads about the PS3, the Wii, about stuff for which there is no factual information, no actual concrete hands on experience and such, yeah, those are nasty.
But those for the existing platforms, those are nice, comfortable and overall friendly places. Dickery, Super Dickery or Regular Dickery doesn't derail those threads into nastyness. People have actually got the hardware and played the software, they know the actual strengths and weaknesses. They won't be affected by false taunts and will appreciaty constructive feedback even if it's from a negative experience.
Yeah, the page count seems intimidating, but the speed at which the whole (sub)forum moves would seem even moreso. Having these threads, subtopics is actually something I've found to be very handy starting points to get more involved with the forum.
(good mods, clear rules and a friendly communty are the things that'll bring me into a forum, long threads aren't what'll scare me off)
The disolving of the Megathreads makes no sense. You need a master thread for the systems, because people ALWAYS have general questions that don't need to be wasted on a new thread. How many "Just got a DS, what do I buy" threads are you going to need to see to prove that? Or "Have a DS, should I get a DSLite?" They are going to appear again, and again, and again.
I really like our little DS thread community - I'm not one to post frequently, but that thread I always keep up on. Just about every small release gets played by someone there, and that way I never have to waste space with a new thread for some small question that just needs a one sentence answer. It's a nice, inviting group. Making the forums more accessible to newcomers is less about killing off good sources of information and more about jailing/banning people that are assholes to newcomers.
It's a great place to visit, I just hate to see it become a complete clusterfuck of new threads where only the most popular games remain on the front page - it can bury great stuff that way. I bought Ouendan, Phoenix Wright, and Trauma Center based on these forums, I have to wonder if I would have been exposed to them otherwise.
At the very least give us some console specific subforums...please?
That's my .02.
Really.
The thing about the megathreads for me, though, is that the same topics do get repeated over and over as it is. You'll have somebody come into the DS thread once in a while to ask about screen protectors, or what games they should get, or if it's worth upgrading to a DS lite, etc. I usually just scroll right on past those posts when they crop up again. If each of these topics had their own thread, I'd just scroll right on past them on the topic index as well. I don't think it's a huge change. If repeat threads start cropping up, just lock them and yell at the offender for not using the search feature.
Can't speak for anyone else, but I learned about Phoenix Wright way back when Imran made the first thread for it, complete with a lengthy OP, lots of pictures, and plenty of speculation over what the game would be like. You can't say for certain that all of this stuff is just going to fall under the radar.
Console-specific subforums are a one-way ticket to actually make all of that clique nonsense true. It may not be the case for the DS thread now that people talk mostly about games in there, but I remember a lot of PSP hate and gloating over sales charts in its early days. That shit got old fast. In the absense of actual games to talk about, the current Wii and PS3 megathreads tend to be fanboy magnets more than anything else.
The chat thread ban still doesn't make sense to me, but I've said all that I've cared to say on that matter elsewhere.
That makes me very very sad.
If nothing else, if this move really does kill discussion somehow instead of incite more of it, then I doubt that the changes would be permanent.
Well I would have heard of it but I dont' think I would have bought it. Also the 50+ page thread came after it was introduced to everyone in the Megathread.
It's not really just that game either, there are alot of things that have come out of the DS thread for me. I would never have picked Trauma Center back up and actually beat it. This is one of the best things I've done in the last year.
There is always the low profile stuff that you are usually introduced or been talked into by the Megathread.
Really I just love the DS and Wii thread. I post in the 360 thread as well as other places when I see a topic I am interested in. It just happens that I am most interested in the DS and Wii threads.
Mike and Jerry could find just about anyone to handle their finances at the drop of a hat. Finding a system admin like alpha is a needle in a haystack. If it weren't for alpha, Khoo wouldn't have his job.
I don't see the problem of people banding together with like interests. That's what message boards are for. Are the 360 and DS threads really that big of a problem? I hope the mods read the final posts in the DS threads and rethink - there's a group of people really upset with the fact that our little corner of the boards are gone.
I own a DS. I dig it. I love finding out about groovy niche games that I'd enjoy, like Phoenix Wright and Oendan.
But I never read the DS thread. Why? IT'S SO GODDAMN BIG.
Unless you obsessively follow it every day, mashing F5 every 30 minutes or so, it's really impossible to find any useful news in there unless you stumble into it by chance. In fact, I never would have found out about Oendan if it weren't for that 50+ page thread. When a game thread gets that huge, I think "holy crap, that must be fun. I'll read about it." When the DS thread gets huge, I think "ah, they're talking about drawing dicks over pictochat or discussing techniques for slipping it in their pockets," and ignore it.
I know I'm not the only one... when threads posting PS3 news come up, Ownage may say "this is old, we talked about this already" amongst all his :sighs and :roll: , but numerous people said "hey, I didn't know about this, the PS3 thread is too big to keep up with. And that thread barely adds 3 pages a day.
And really, everyone's freaking out over swarms of mini-threads popping up... but I seriously doubt that'll happen. Remember when the mega-thread rules were relaxed the first time, and system news could be posted out of them? And Raijin threw a hissy-fit and quit in a huff? And everyone predicted there would be too many swarms of threads? Guess what... it didn't happen. And I doubt it'll happen now.
I know it's frustrating for the communities within the mega-threads, but honestly, they're really not user-friendly for people who don't have oodles of spare time. I don't. I have a job, I have a life. I like to read a few posts, make a few comments, and get back to the real world.
I don't post much, but I have enjoyed reading the DS thread for some time. Sure it was big, but it was a good place to get the latest general info, and advice on game buys. And there was always specific game threads if you wanted to talk about a title in more depth. So, I'd have to say that as a lurker, the big threads (Well the DS at least) drew me more into wanting to post rather than away, as the given reason for the change would indicate. Here's the testimonial I posted in the DS thread.
"I'm also mostly a lurker. I'll miss having a place to get all of my DS scuttlebutt at once. Also, I never felt shunned at the G&T forums. As long as I posted polite and coherent questions, I got polite answers back. I like the feel of the G&T forums because is well mannered enough to be pleasant to read, but has enough of an edge to it to keep really incoherent posts to a minimum. Ah, well. I'll see how it goes now."
On another note, my first impression of the SE forum was not a good one. Someone posted a link to a DS chat thread in SE, and I thought, "Well, they are trying to get all of the chat in one place. That's fine. Let's have a look at this new thread." When I looked it over it was nothing but arguing not much related to DS games. They did at one point start talking about Harvest Moon, but it quickly turned to how one would "Do it" with a mermaid. I fled back to G&T, because it seems that the style of SE is not for me. I mean, I like a little DS in my DS chat thread. I know you are going for forum unity, but I think the forum cultures have evolved differently so it will be tricky.
Ah well, that's just my 2 cents. I hope the new rules operate smoothly and that I am worried over nothing.
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While I respect your opinion, I think you're approaching the idea in the wrong way.
Megathreads should not be a substitute for dedicated news outlets, like GameSpot or 1Up. If you want news fast, go to those websites. Items are easy to find and there's virtually no clutter.
Additionally, there are very few people who actually read every single post in a megathread. Rather, for most, the thread serves as a sort of "chat thread" (although I hesitate to use that term), where discussion can travel freely from one topic to the next. If someone wants to bring up a previous topic, they're free to do so. If the rest of the posters have something to say, they'll post it. Otherwise, the floor will just be yielded to something else.
I just think you're taking the idea a little too seriously. The DS megathread should not be the be-all and end-all source of DS news and discussion. If something warrants a new thread, someone will make a new thread. For everything else, there's the megathread.
No, we'd just get Ramius to do it.
I mean, can you really call yourself part of the PA community if you don't even know who the fucking Admins are?