or you could do whether you are even\odd on the player signup list, which can be used for sampling without replacement, and most likely less extreme splits, but the mafia would then know who is doing what.
or you could do whether you are even\odd on the player signup list, which can be used for sampling without replacement, and most likely less extreme splits, but the mafia would then know who is doing what.
Yeah, I thought up several related plans, but they all let the mafia know what's up. I'm concerned that they might have relatively fine-grained control over what resources they make us lose, and in that case we want to deny them exactly this kind of info.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
I'm thinking we should probably put more emphasis on mining early on. My guess is that the Strange Mood is going to be very pro-village, possibly a seering.
If we see that we are losing sanity en masse, we can easily change strategy to refill our stockpiles. It looks like the first night will be a freebie, resources-wise, anyways. It will be easier to reach 80 ore if we all go early, rather than trying to make a push for it when the pop is reduced.
I think whether this is true depends significantly on the answer to my question. If everyone in the fortress loses sanity as soon as the number hits zero, then it's going to be hard for us to justify risking it. More likely, of course, the number of dwarves that lose sanity is just the number of food/booze we are short, and then I think I agree with you that we should focus on ore.
The wording on the opening post would lead me to think that all dwarves lose sanity. I don't think there's any way to distribute a remainder to spare sanity for the night.
I'm thinking we should probably put more emphasis on mining early on. My guess is that the Strange Mood is going to be very pro-village, possibly a seering.
If we see that we are losing sanity en masse, we can easily change strategy to refill our stockpiles. It looks like the first night will be a freebie, resources-wise, anyways. It will be easier to reach 80 ore if we all go early, rather than trying to make a push for it when the pop is reduced.
I think whether this is true depends significantly on the answer to my question. If everyone in the fortress loses sanity as soon as the number hits zero, then it's going to be hard for us to justify risking it. More likely, of course, the number of dwarves that lose sanity is just the number of food/booze we are short, and then I think I agree with you that we should focus on ore.
The wording on the opening post would lead me to think that all dwarves lose sanity. I don't think there's any way to distribute a remainder to spare sanity for the night.
And premium's clarification bears this out.
: (
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
Another thing to think about: we need to eat and drink on subsequent days as well, so it would be pretty silly to starve ourselves by depleting our reserves tonight and discover we can't get them back up to meet our needs (due to attrition, lack of coordination, calamity, etc.). ZH's coin toss idea seems like the best compromiseto me. I tried thinking of another way, but I couldn't come up with anything that would bee a good middle ground between my idea and his.
I'm thinking we should probably put more emphasis on mining early on. My guess is that the Strange Mood is going to be very pro-village, possibly a seering.
If we see that we are losing sanity en masse, we can easily change strategy to refill our stockpiles. It looks like the first night will be a freebie, resources-wise, anyways. It will be easier to reach 80 ore if we all go early, rather than trying to make a push for it when the pop is reduced.
I think whether this is true depends significantly on the answer to my question. If everyone in the fortress loses sanity as soon as the number hits zero, then it's going to be hard for us to justify risking it. More likely, of course, the number of dwarves that lose sanity is just the number of food/booze we are short, and then I think I agree with you that we should focus on ore.
The wording on the opening post would lead me to think that all dwarves lose sanity. I don't think there's any way to distribute a remainder to spare sanity for the night.
And premium's clarification bears this out.
: (
Yeah, totally missed that post. That's what I get for reading the thread while half-tired.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
If you are a proficient miner you should absolutely not let anyone know.
Ah, so I'm not the only one who's seen people with variant numbers. I'd guess the professions have the same production ceiling but maybe not the same populations.
If you are a proficient miner you should absolutely not let anyone know.
Ah, so I'm not the only one who's seen people with variant numbers. I'd guess the professions have the same production ceiling but maybe not the same populations.
I don't know about all that, just going off the op with a miner doing five instead of four and a brewer making five drink etc.
My suspicion currently is that strange moods will actually give the village specials their abilities (perhaps at the cost of sanity). Note that "Other labors/resources will become available as the game progresses". It makes sense, anyway, within game terms, if you need a certain number of ore to be able to construct the thing that allows you to harvest the next resource/perform your action. For instance, the village vig might need an axe, etc.
I'm trying to decide whether it would be smart or not for us to all declare what resource we're going to produce so that we don't all just overproduce food or drink. On the one hand, it'll give the mafia more information so they better know what to disrupt, but on the other hand it's not going to matter what the mafia disrupts if we screw ourselves over by all making one thing in the first place. It could also potentially give the village information if we see a big disconnect between what people reported they were going to produce and what was actually produced.
I'm beginning to think that moods might raise the production power of the dwarf. That would kinda seem like a shammy bonus though if that dwarf immediately becomes a target for mafia.
So unless the dwarf is being secretive (i.e. it's not revealed who the mood benefited), that doesn't seem like a possibility.
BTW, moods also might fall on mafia/SK or the like. So hey, you know, there's that risk.
My suspicion currently is that strange moods will actually give the village specials their abilities (perhaps at the cost of sanity). Note that "Other labors/resources will become available as the game progresses". It makes sense, anyway, within game terms, if you need a certain number of ore to be able to construct the thing that allows you to harvest the next resource/perform your action. For instance, the village vig might need an axe, etc.
I'm trying to decide whether it would be smart or not for us to all declare what resource we're going to produce so that we don't all just overproduce food or drink. On the one hand, it'll give the mafia more information so they better know what to disrupt, but on the other hand it's not going to matter what the mafia disrupts if we screw ourselves over by all making one thing in the first place. It could also potentially give the village information if we see a big disconnect between what people reported they were going to produce and what was actually produced.
I can say with some certainty that the village vigilante will probably need a hammer, if he needs anything at all. You may be right about what moods do, though.
Calling our production seems unnecessary. We all got jobs. Do your job unless you want to participate in project coin-toss and we should in theory build a surplus unless a vast number of deaths occur.
I'm beginning to think that moods might raise the production power of the dwarf. That would kinda seem like a shammy bonus though if that dwarf immediately becomes a target for mafia.
So unless the dwarf is being secretive (i.e. it's not revealed who the mood benefited), that doesn't seem like a possibility.
BTW, moods also might fall on mafia/SK or the like. So hey, you know, there's that risk.
I would bet good money that the benefit generated by one dwarf's moods will fall on another dwarf. For instance, if I am a blacksmith and I make a legendary pickaxe it will benefit a miner, not me.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I'm beginning to think that moods might raise the production power of the dwarf. That would kinda seem like a shammy bonus though if that dwarf immediately becomes a target for mafia.
So unless the dwarf is being secretive (i.e. it's not revealed who the mood benefited), that doesn't seem like a possibility.
BTW, moods also might fall on mafia/SK or the like. So hey, you know, there's that risk.
Traditionally in the game they max out someone's skill at something. If maxed skill = more production, then that is probably one possible mood outcome, yes.
Well, we should all have at least a 4 in each type, if we can coordinate production 5 in food 5 in booze and 20 in mining would allow us to keep our stockpiles up and finish the strange mood. Also as people die we will need less food and booze so that is a plus, but we will likely need the same amount of ore.
Only people with very high skill in food and booze should work it tonight, while everyone else who even has "5" skill in either should mine.
My numbers guess that we have 7-8 mafia and 3-4 neutrals who will not cooperate.
Zombie Hero's plan is good also.
]ObiFett until I get a better idea.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
This seems like a lot of coordination for day 1-I figured everyone would just produce their specialty today and see where the numbers end up-I feel like hitting the strange mood today is a pretty thin margin and likely open to mafia abuse if they know we are focused heavily there.
This seems like a lot of coordination for day 1-I figured everyone would just produce their specialty today and see where the numbers end up-I feel like hitting the strange mood today is a pretty thin margin and likely open to mafia abuse if they know we are focused heavily there.
A lot of coordination for day 1 is good independent of the results, because it makes day 1 give us a lot of data about people.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
When someone dies we lose the need for 1 food/1 drink but also the production of 4+ on something else.
Also, by the ability for a dwarf with no sanity to accost others and steal their sanity, we're gonna be losing our sanity from not just lack of food/drink because if every dwarf has no sanity you can't steal it!
What happens when a dwarf accosts a tantruming dwarf?
The dwarf who is accosting the other tantruming dwarf would regain sanity as normal. The tantruming dwarf who was accosted would have the sanity gain from accosting another dwarf cancelled out by the sanity loss from being accosted. Sanity has a lower limit of 0.
Since I don't think I've seen it mentioned (but I haven't read very closely either), it's worth remembering that just saying "everyone go for your specialty" also gives everyone a rough estimate of how many of each specialty we have, which may inform our ability to strategize around that.
I think the mafia will be able to do more with that information than we can. In any case, the village can put together that info much easier once somebody becomes confirmed.
Since I don't think I've seen it mentioned (but I haven't read very closely either), it's worth remembering that just saying "everyone go for your specialty" also gives everyone a rough estimate of how many of each specialty we have, which may inform our ability to strategize around that.
I think the mafia will be able to do more with that information than we can. In any case, the village can put together that info much easier once somebody becomes confirmed.
Edit: Clarified.
What would the mafia be able to do without the core information of who is what?
And as for 'confirmed', ahem: Are there conversions in this game? I'll extend the question out to thralls, millers, and reliable masons while I'm here.
I think the mafia will be able to do more with that information than we can. In any case, the village can put together that info much easier once somebody becomes confirmed.
Edit: Clarified.
Maybe it's just the last couple games I've been in but waiting around for a confirmed network head to safely organize and collect data hasn't gone very well lately, either through hosts aims or just bad luck on the village. Either way our plan should never hinge on a network head getting confirmed and doing the work for us.
Since I don't think I've seen it mentioned (but I haven't read very closely either), it's worth remembering that just saying "everyone go for your specialty" also gives everyone a rough estimate of how many of each specialty we have, which may inform our ability to strategize around that.
That was my thinking originally, but I wasn't sure how helpful that would be, or that people were going to go for it with this mystery status just waiting to be uncovered (which could be a carrot, could be a stick - this is DF after all).
I feel about like this Phalla like I feel like DF itself. It's been so long since I've played, and all my old instincts are so rusty. But now it will take over my life.
I think the mafia will be able to do more with that information than we can. In any case, the village can put together that info much easier once somebody becomes confirmed.
Edit: Clarified.
Maybe it's just the last couple games I've been in but waiting around for a confirmed network head to safely organize and collect data hasn't gone very well lately, either through hosts aims or just bad luck on the village. Either way our plan should never hinge on a network head getting confirmed and doing the work for us.
I think that the fact that this info helps the mafia (lets them prioritize targets) so much is the major reason not to seek it out.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
I think the mafia will be able to do more with that information than we can. In any case, the village can put together that info much easier once somebody becomes confirmed.
Edit: Clarified.
What would the mafia be able to do without the core information of who is what?
And as for 'confirmed', ahem: Are there conversions in this game? I'll extend the question out to thralls, millers, and reliable masons while I'm here.
I'm not sure, but if they can wring out class claims from anyone (even though they shouldn't), they could target the class of lowest pop. I don't really have a problem with the plan, im just trying to get mechanics discussion out of the way early.
In my limited experience, the more complicated a game is, the more it will inherently benefit the mafia. Not only will discussions be flooded with mechanics discussions instead of behavior analysis, the village has a lot more of a uphill battle to figure out what is going on, and commonly it is hard to balance how much this uphill battle will be.
I think the mafia will be able to do more with that information than we can. In any case, the village can put together that info much easier once somebody becomes confirmed.
Edit: Clarified.
What would the mafia be able to do without the core information of who is what?
And as for 'confirmed', ahem: Are there conversions in this game? I'll extend the question out to thralls, millers, and reliable masons while I'm here.
Posts
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Yeah, I thought up several related plans, but they all let the mafia know what's up. I'm concerned that they might have relatively fine-grained control over what resources they make us lose, and in that case we want to deny them exactly this kind of info.
The wording on the opening post would lead me to think that all dwarves lose sanity. I don't think there's any way to distribute a remainder to spare sanity for the night.
And premium's clarification bears this out.
: (
Yeah, totally missed that post. That's what I get for reading the thread while half-tired.
Ah, so I'm not the only one who's seen people with variant numbers. I'd guess the professions have the same production ceiling but maybe not the same populations.
I don't know about all that, just going off the op with a miner doing five instead of four and a brewer making five drink etc.
I'm trying to decide whether it would be smart or not for us to all declare what resource we're going to produce so that we don't all just overproduce food or drink. On the one hand, it'll give the mafia more information so they better know what to disrupt, but on the other hand it's not going to matter what the mafia disrupts if we screw ourselves over by all making one thing in the first place. It could also potentially give the village information if we see a big disconnect between what people reported they were going to produce and what was actually produced.
So unless the dwarf is being secretive (i.e. it's not revealed who the mood benefited), that doesn't seem like a possibility.
BTW, moods also might fall on mafia/SK or the like. So hey, you know, there's that risk.
Supposing we have 30 producing villagers, AND an even split. If all miners mine, and everyone else flips a coin.
Out of 5000 repetitions, i have
Food Produced:
Min: 0, Q1: 20, Median: 25, Q3: 30, Max: 50
Mean: 24.974, SD : 7.904
Ore Produced:
Min 58, Q1: 86, Median: 90, Q3: 98.00, Max: 118
Mean 90.16, SD : 8.963
Beer Produced:
Min: 0, Q1: 20, Median 25, Q3: 30, Max: 50
Mean: 24.82, SD : 7.916
(expect food and beer to follow same distribution)
(also note that anything can happen in ONE trial)
(and this doesnt account for mafia silliness)
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
I can say with some certainty that the village vigilante will probably need a hammer, if he needs anything at all. You may be right about what moods do, though.
Calling our production seems unnecessary. We all got jobs. Do your job unless you want to participate in project coin-toss and we should in theory build a surplus unless a vast number of deaths occur.
I would bet good money that the benefit generated by one dwarf's moods will fall on another dwarf. For instance, if I am a blacksmith and I make a legendary pickaxe it will benefit a miner, not me.
Traditionally in the game they max out someone's skill at something. If maxed skill = more production, then that is probably one possible mood outcome, yes.
Does this account for Cooks and Brewers?
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Only people with very high skill in food and booze should work it tonight, while everyone else who even has "5" skill in either should mine.
My numbers guess that we have 7-8 mafia and 3-4 neutrals who will not cooperate.
Zombie Hero's plan is good also.
]ObiFett until I get a better idea.
I'm on board. If you betray us, we'll feed you to the corn bugs, though!
A lot of coordination for day 1 is good independent of the results, because it makes day 1 give us a lot of data about people.
Also, by the ability for a dwarf with no sanity to accost others and steal their sanity, we're gonna be losing our sanity from not just lack of food/drink because if every dwarf has no sanity you can't steal it!
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
The dwarf who is accosting the other tantruming dwarf would regain sanity as normal. The tantruming dwarf who was accosted would have the sanity gain from accosting another dwarf cancelled out by the sanity loss from being accosted. Sanity has a lower limit of 0.
3DS: 1289-8447-4695
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
A tantruming dwarf may accost another dwarf, earning them back a single point of sanity but costing the accosted dwarf a point
3DS: 1289-8447-4695
Edit: Clarified.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
True!
What would the mafia be able to do without the core information of who is what?
And as for 'confirmed', ahem: Are there conversions in this game? I'll extend the question out to thralls, millers, and reliable masons while I'm here.
Maybe it's just the last couple games I've been in but waiting around for a confirmed network head to safely organize and collect data hasn't gone very well lately, either through hosts aims or just bad luck on the village. Either way our plan should never hinge on a network head getting confirmed and doing the work for us.
That was my thinking originally, but I wasn't sure how helpful that would be, or that people were going to go for it with this mystery status just waiting to be uncovered (which could be a carrot, could be a stick - this is DF after all).
I think that the fact that this info helps the mafia (lets them prioritize targets) so much is the major reason not to seek it out.
I'm not sure, but if they can wring out class claims from anyone (even though they shouldn't), they could target the class of lowest pop. I don't really have a problem with the plan, im just trying to get mechanics discussion out of the way early.
In my limited experience, the more complicated a game is, the more it will inherently benefit the mafia. Not only will discussions be flooded with mechanics discussions instead of behavior analysis, the village has a lot more of a uphill battle to figure out what is going on, and commonly it is hard to balance how much this uphill battle will be.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
CD, CD, CD, CD
3DS: 1289-8447-4695