I'll chime in to clarify that I wasn't generalising for the US populace, since my only perspective is as a tourist. I don't, however, think that it's unreasonable for a person to assume that minimum wage laws apply to everybody (and from what I'm hearing, they do, since the employer has to make the wages up if the base pay + tips doesn't reach minimum).
Really, what has me wondering is why waiting staff are treated like a special case. There are plenty of minimum wage jobs that aren't generally tipped, but nobody seems to go out of their way to specifically reward them.
Really, what has me wondering is why waiting staff are treated like a special case. There are plenty of minimum wage jobs that aren't generally tipped, but nobody seems to go out of their way to specifically reward them.
I'll chime in to clarify that I wasn't generalising for the US populace, since my only perspective is as a tourist. I don't, however, think that it's unreasonable for a person to assume that minimum wage laws apply to everybody (and from what I'm hearing, they do, since the employer has to make the wages up if the base pay + tips doesn't reach minimum).
Really, what has me wondering is why waiting staff are treated like a special case. There are plenty of minimum wage jobs that aren't generally tipped, but nobody seems to go out of their way to specifically reward them.
If I had to guess as to why they're treated special it would go something like this.
1.) Server made a standard wage.
2.) People tipped them as they are wont to do when they receive good service.
3.) Employers rallied and lobbied to get lower wages for servers since they were making money on tips.
jclast on
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ShogunHair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get alongRegistered Userregular
Are you serious? It's common to assume "minimum wage applies to everybody except these people"?
Yes, I'm dead serious. I would be surprised if the majority of Americans did not know that serving staff made less than minimum wage, especially since that is the main justification used for tipping.
I'm not saying it's not possible for me to be wrong, but I would be surprised if I was.
This is the crux of my point. They don't make less than minimum wage. They make either $2.13 per hour plus tips or minimum wage, whichever is higher.
I don't think it's assuming a whole lot for people to assume that servers are making a legal wage with or without your tip. Because they are. That's why we have wage laws. You don't have to know the ins and outs of wage law to understand that they protect workers from things like sub-poverty level pay.
The poverty level is currently ~$9/hr. Minimum wage is no where close to this, in any state.
The poverty level for one person living alone is about $5.25/hr.
Interesting that happens to coincide with how much minimum wage currently is, until it begins to rise in the next couple years. I wonder if the poverty level will stay with it? I guess I have to write a letter to the publisher of my economics text book. They be tellin' lies.
Are you serious? It's common to assume "minimum wage applies to everybody except these people"?
Yes, I'm dead serious. I would be surprised if the majority of Americans did not know that serving staff made less than minimum wage, especially since that is the main justification used for tipping.
I'm not saying it's not possible for me to be wrong, but I would be surprised if I was.
This is the crux of my point. They don't make less than minimum wage. They make either $2.13 per hour plus tips or minimum wage, whichever is higher.
I don't think it's assuming a whole lot for people to assume that servers are making a legal wage with or without your tip. Because they are. That's why we have wage laws. You don't have to know the ins and outs of wage law to understand that they protect workers from things like sub-poverty level pay.
The poverty level is currently ~$9/hr. Minimum wage is no where close to this, in any state.
The poverty level for one person living alone is about $5.25/hr.
Interesting that happens to coincide with how much minimum wage currently is, until it begins to rise in the next couple years. I wonder if the poverty level will stay with it? I guess I have to write a letter to the publisher of my economics text book. They be tellin' lies.
Maybe your text had the national average poverty level wage? It varies from state to state. That's what a new minimum can be set by any state as long as it's higher than the federal minimum.
Are you serious? It's common to assume "minimum wage applies to everybody except these people"?
Yes, I'm dead serious. I would be surprised if the majority of Americans did not know that serving staff made less than minimum wage, especially since that is the main justification used for tipping.
I'm not saying it's not possible for me to be wrong, but I would be surprised if I was.
This is the crux of my point. They don't make less than minimum wage. They make either $2.13 per hour plus tips or minimum wage, whichever is higher.
I don't think it's assuming a whole lot for people to assume that servers are making a legal wage with or without your tip. Because they are. That's why we have wage laws. You don't have to know the ins and outs of wage law to understand that they protect workers from things like sub-poverty level pay.
The poverty level is currently ~$9/hr. Minimum wage is no where close to this, in any state.
The poverty level for one person living alone is about $5.25/hr.
Interesting that happens to coincide with how much minimum wage currently is, until it begins to rise in the next couple years. I wonder if the poverty level will stay with it? I guess I have to write a letter to the publisher of my economics text book. They be tellin' lies.
Or maybe they just have a different definition of "poverty."
First off don't give me the Minimum Wage BS. Not everyone thinks a minimum wage is a good idea, it is government enforced prise fixing.
Secondly, these people can easily make more than minimum wage, even if they are getting paid 4 dollars less an hour than what the minimum is. $4 an hour in tips is not hard, just two tables with $20 orders leaving 10% will get you your 4 bucks. So stop whining, you are making more than minimum.
SolidusRaccoon on
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.
It's good that you resurrected a thread that was over a month to restate the basic opposition argument. We'd somehow missed it in the previous 327 posts.
First off don't give me the Minimum Wage BS. Not everyone thinks a minimum wage is a good idea, it is government enforced prise fixing.
Punishing the lowest levels of our society for the actions of the very top is completely asinine.
First off don't give me the Minimum Wage BS. Not everyone thinks a minimum wage is a good idea, it is government enforced prise fixing.
Secondly, these people can easily make more than minimum wage, even if they are getting paid 4 dollars less an hour than what the minimum is. $4 an hour in tips is not hard, just two tables with $20 orders leaving 10% will get you your 4 bucks. So stop whining, you are making more than minimum.
If you're living in the US, you're being an asshole.
If someone busts their ass working a minimum wage job to give me a good experience, I will definately throw some extra cash their way because some one that works that hard should be rewarded with more than just enough money to buy shelter, food, and occasionaly walmart clothing.
First off don't give me the Minimum Wage BS. Not everyone thinks a minimum wage is a good idea, it is government enforced prise fixing.
Secondly, these people can easily make more than minimum wage, even if they are getting paid 4 dollars less an hour than what the minimum is. $4 an hour in tips is not hard, just two tables with $20 orders leaving 10% will get you your 4 bucks. So stop whining, you are making more than minimum.
If you're living in the US, you're being an asshole.
Also, useless, if your title is accurate. :P
....Uh some people wait to.. you know, survive?
Which... can't be done on 6.15 an hour...
And either way that is straight up asshole. Waiting is not an easy job.
I am a pizza delivery guy. I don't expect a 15% tip, because pizza delivery is not that hard. I DO expect some sort of tip though. You're tipping for the convenience of not having to get off your lazy ass, leave your house and stop what you're doing to get some food. Hell, I've even put the pizza on a person's table, opened her soda, and put a slice of pizza on her plate (she was a shut-in with bad arthritis who ordered on the same day every week). And that lady didn't tip....EVER. That didn't stop me from being nice to her, but her pizza did take a little longer to get to her than it would have if she tipped.
BUT, I digress. Like I said, I don't expect 15%....but an extra dollar or 2 goes a long way. Pizza guys have good memories. If you consistently tip, you will get better service. I've seen delivery guys fight over who gets to take a certain run because the customer was known to be a good tipper. In the long run, wouldn't you rather be the guy who's pizza gets to him fast and hot, than the guy who's food sits on the rack waiting until we have another run in that area????
Yep, my brother delivered pizzas for a while. That and the fact that we live kind of far out in the boonies earns a healthy tip for anyone that comes out in a decent amount of time.
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Really, what has me wondering is why waiting staff are treated like a special case. There are plenty of minimum wage jobs that aren't generally tipped, but nobody seems to go out of their way to specifically reward them.
If I had to guess as to why they're treated special it would go something like this.
1.) Server made a standard wage.
2.) People tipped them as they are wont to do when they receive good service.
3.) Employers rallied and lobbied to get lower wages for servers since they were making money on tips.
Interesting that happens to coincide with how much minimum wage currently is, until it begins to rise in the next couple years. I wonder if the poverty level will stay with it? I guess I have to write a letter to the publisher of my economics text book. They be tellin' lies.
Shogun Streams Vidya
Maybe your text had the national average poverty level wage? It varies from state to state. That's what a new minimum can be set by any state as long as it's higher than the federal minimum.
Or maybe they just have a different definition of "poverty."
First off don't give me the Minimum Wage BS. Not everyone thinks a minimum wage is a good idea, it is government enforced prise fixing.
Secondly, these people can easily make more than minimum wage, even if they are getting paid 4 dollars less an hour than what the minimum is. $4 an hour in tips is not hard, just two tables with $20 orders leaving 10% will get you your 4 bucks. So stop whining, you are making more than minimum.
Punishing the lowest levels of our society for the actions of the very top is completely asinine.
If you're living in the US, you're being an asshole.
Also, useless, if your title is accurate. :P
MWO: Adamski
....Uh some people wait to.. you know, survive?
Which... can't be done on 6.15 an hour...
And either way that is straight up asshole. Waiting is not an easy job.
BUT, I digress. Like I said, I don't expect 15%....but an extra dollar or 2 goes a long way. Pizza guys have good memories. If you consistently tip, you will get better service. I've seen delivery guys fight over who gets to take a certain run because the customer was known to be a good tipper. In the long run, wouldn't you rather be the guy who's pizza gets to him fast and hot, than the guy who's food sits on the rack waiting until we have another run in that area????