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[Computer Build Thread] - Haswell? More like Has...damnit, I had something for this...

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    tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Noggin wrote: »
    I think I'm pretty much decided on these parts so far. (look familiar @Sarksus?:P )

    I'm worried about heat though.

    I'd prefer everything be as cool as possible without much trouble, especially the CPU since apparently Haswell runs hotter. I'm hoping the CM 212 is sufficient as long as there's little to no overclocking. However, With only 2 fans included with the case, I'd imagine I need at least one more, and have seen plenty of opinions for either adding 1 front intake, 1 side intake, or 1 side exhaust.

    If so - how much of a concern is all this positive/negative pressure business?

    My other concern is with the graphics card, comparing EVGA 760 models 2761, and 2763. Would the 2763 give me heat issues by not exhausting as much heat?

    Finally, there seems to be several options for a combo of RAM and the EVGA 2763. If the 2763 won't turn my case into an oven - should I go with one of those (assuming G.Skill) or is there some specific kit I should get?

    I understand that I'm probably over-worried, it's been too long since I built a computer and it's become quite a rabbit hole. I just want to make sure I have a good balance of cooling, noise reduction, and power.

    I would not be worried about heat. You have a plenty big enough case. The dual-fan non-blower cards also work well with cases like that one where the power supply is exhausting air - less of a dead zone near the card in that case.

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    hsuhsu Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    I see that you have the Fractal R4 case. Yeah, I'd add a third fan: 2 front intake fans, 1 rear outflow fan.
    You want slightly higher air pressure inside the case, along with a straight airflow path for cooling.
    Noise control is mainly using big, quiet fans spinning slowly (including the CPU and PSU fans).

    hsu on
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    NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    Cool, I'll go with 2 front intakes then. Thanks everyone, I figured I was being crazy, but I couldn't find much reassurance via google.

    Then I think I just have to pick some ram and maybe a cheaper ssd. :mrgreen:

    Battletag: Noggin#1936
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    AlectharAlecthar Alan Shore We're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Noggin wrote: »
    Cool, I'll go with 2 front intakes then. Thanks everyone, I figured I was being crazy, but I couldn't find much reassurance via google.

    Then I think I just have to pick some ram and maybe a cheaper ssd. :mrgreen:

    Go Samsung 840 EVO 250GB. The way I see it, there are only 2 SSDs worth buying for most people: the Crucial M500 and the 840 Evo, in whichever size you prefer/can afford. They aren't the absolute fastest options, but they're both very quick, and they possess by far the most important attribute for a standard consumer SSD : unimpeachable reliability.

    There isn't any reason to believe that the Samsung 840 Pro is any less reliable, and it's also faster and significantly more expensive. Realistically, though, the gains in Read/Write speeds and the like aren't the kind of things most people really notice in everyday usage. The expense of owning one of the faster drives simply isn't justified by a tangible quality of life improvement. On the other hand, you have Sandforce drives that often have even lower $/GB ratios than the M500 or 840 EVO (from vendors like Mushkin, Corsair, OCZ, and Kingston) . Unfortunately, those drives have a history of design and firmware issues. TRIM works poorly (or not at all) they still have issues with BSODs, and the controller design ultimately prevented hardware support for 256 bit encryption (something most Sandforce drives claimed for quite a while). I don't think they're a good buy even at the current bargain basement prices.

    The M500 and 840 EVO represent the sweet spot where $/GB, speed, and reliability all meet. My general preference is for the Samsung drives, as they're a bit faster and you get a bit more storage at each capacity level, but if you're really worried about drive endurance (which you shouldn't be) or have really write-intensive workloads (not likely if it's a general purpose and/or gaming PC) then the M500 is a great buy as well. If you absolutely must spend more, I'd say go with either the Corsair Neutron GTX (fast), OCZ Vector (faster) or the aforementioned 840 Pro (fastest).

    Alecthar on
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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    Is there any indication yet whether the 840 Pro will get support for RAPID.

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    M-VickersM-Vickers Registered User regular
    Griswold wrote: »
    For those considering an SSD purchase:

    I bought mine last year during Black November, and managed to score a 512GB Vertex 4 for $300, which was an unheard-of value at the time (and still pretty damn good nowadays). You may want to consider waiting for a month and a half.

    I'm tempted to do this - my new system has a 60GB ssd for Windows, and I love it. 31 seconds to boot into Windows !

    I'm now thinking about a second ssd for a few games - 128gb might actually be a good size for Steam, as it might encourage to actually finish single player games and then delete them. Rather than my current practice of buying games cheap during the sales, installing them then promptly forgetting about them.

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    AlectharAlecthar Alan Shore We're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Is there any indication yet whether the 840 Pro will get support for RAPID.

    I don't think they've said one way or another, yet. I imagine the main issue is making sure things play nice with the MDX controller in the older drives. I hope we see it, though, it would be a nice speed boost for the regular 840s too.

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    hsuhsu Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Noggin, I'm not sure why you went with WD Blacks, but you can get a WD Green 1 TB for about $20 cheaper. Sure, WD Greens are about 20% slower than WD Blacks, but you won't notice it in real life, because all your games, applications, and OS will be on the SSD.

    The only stuff on the HD will be movies, music, e-books, and personal data files, none of which requires speed. Remember that blue ray movies were designed to be read from optical drives at 7 mb/s, and the WD Greens have been tested at 75 mb/s sustained read/write, so it's plenty fast enough for video/music. The only time you notice the difference is when you edit uncompressed video or music.

    That said, my preference is WD Reds in raid 1 configuration, using Windows OS based raid. Losing data sucks, so having a hot backup is well worth it to me.

    hsu on
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    cardboard delusionscardboard delusions USAgent PSN: USAgent31Registered User regular
    I have a spare 600gb WD Blue drive now, so anyone looking to build and keep their stuff cheap I can probably help if you want to front shipping.

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    cardboard delusionscardboard delusions USAgent PSN: USAgent31Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    cardboard delusions on
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    AlectharAlecthar Alan Shore We're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered User regular
    hsu wrote: »
    Noggin, I'm not sure why you went with WD Blacks, but you can get a WD Green 1 TB for about $20 cheaper. Sure, WD Greens are about 20% slower than WD Blacks, but you won't notice it in real life, because all your games, applications, and OS will be on the SSD.

    The only stuff on the HD will be movies, music, e-books, and personal data files, none of which requires speed. Remember that blue ray movies were designed to be read from optical drives at 7 mb/s, and the WD Greens have been tested at 75 mb/s sustained read/write, so it's plenty fast enough for video/music. The only time you notice the difference is when you edit uncompressed video or music.

    That said, my preference is WD Reds in raid 1 configuration, using Windows OS based raid. Losing data sucks, so having a hot backup is well worth it to me.

    I've given up on spinning storage in my actual PC. The storage drive just went in my desktop, and I'm tired of dealing with them. Certainly, it's nice to have everything concentrated in one machine, but I think that, with a relatively limited outlay, a nice 2-bay (or larger) NAS unit can be yours, for mirrored or redundant storage. The WD Reds or Seagate NAS drives are intended for that purpose, but honestly you could probably get away with whatever the cheapest 3-4 TB drive is at the time. There's nothing I keep on spinning storage that won't transfer back and forth just as well over gigabit ethernet, and it's nice to have a central, accessible place for all my movies and whatnot. I know most people's comfort zone with home networking extends to writing down their WiFi password, but it's not that difficult to set up a Synology NAS unit, and I think it's the kind of investment that pays big dividends over time.

    Plus, if you're like me and you like building PCs and you want to learn more about other BSD and/or Linux, you can build your own NAS/Home Server for virtually nothing, depending on what kind of spare parts you have lying around.

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    AlectharAlecthar Alan Shore We're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered User regular

    It's so cheap because it's mislabeled. The 780's don't come in 4GB versions, just 3GB at the moment (and potentially 6GB later, maybe). The model number of the card linked is actually for a GTX 770, Tiger Direct are just being the silliest and goosiest of gooses.

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    cardboard delusionscardboard delusions USAgent PSN: USAgent31Registered User regular
    Yeah after reading all that seemed to be the case - thanks Alecthar

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    NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    @hsu, I was thinking black for the longer warranty and to hold my steam library.

    @Alecthar, thanks for the detailed reply. The EVO looks like a better choice for me after all.

    Thanks for the help!

    Ram seems like a more or less trivial decision, but interestingly the 760 & G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1866 combo is $3 cheaper than the DDR3-1600 combo, but also with slower timing? :rotate:

    Battletag: Noggin#1936
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    AlectharAlecthar Alan Shore We're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered User regular
    Noggin wrote: »
    @hsu, I was thinking black for the longer warranty and to hold my steam library.

    @Alecthar, thanks for the detailed reply. The EVO looks like a better choice for me after all.

    Thanks for the help!

    Ram seems like a more or less trivial decision, but interestingly the 760 & G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1866 combo is $3 cheaper than the DDR3-1600 combo, but also with slower timing? :rotate:

    With the higher clock speeds, it's at worst a wash between the two options. Go with whatever's cheapest. You'll never notice anyway.

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    hsuhsu Registered User regular
    Noggin, put your Steam games onto your SSD.
    Or at least the ones you are currently playing.
    Stuff loads so much faster off the SSD that you'll want to put all your games there.

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    tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Noggin wrote: »
    @hsu, I was thinking black for the longer warranty and to hold my steam library.

    You should plan on putting games you are playing on the SSD. You can use Steam mover to shift them to the spindle drive when you are done. Putting games on the SSD will improve loading times and performance A LOT.

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    MrDelishMrDelish Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    So I've had two 460s in SLI in my 2600k Sandy Bridge, Z68 setup for a couple years. What would be a good single-card replacement? Price range 200-300 or so.

    edit: I hear this is a good deal. Is it a good deal or would it be overkill in my setup?

    MrDelish on
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    FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    MrDelish wrote: »
    So I've had two 460s in SLI in my 2600k Sandy Bridge, Z68 setup for a couple years. What would be a good single-card replacement? Price range 200-300 or so.

    edit: I hear this is a good deal. Is it a good deal or would it be overkill in my setup?

    Get a 760, its basically just a 670 but cheaper.

    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
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    tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    MrDelish wrote: »
    So I've had two 460s in SLI in my 2600k Sandy Bridge, Z68 setup for a couple years. What would be a good single-card replacement? Price range 200-300 or so.

    edit: I hear this is a good deal. Is it a good deal or would it be overkill in my setup?

    Agree with Foomy, go for the 760 if you want an upgrade. Are you unhappy with your current setup though? You will notice a performance increase but I don't think you will be getting the best bang for your buck unless you wait for another series of GPUs to show up.

    I guess I wonder if we would tell someone with a (EDIT) 560ti to upgrade to a 760 right now - I think that's where your SLI setup falls in terms of performance.

    tsmvengy on
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    secretexhibitionsecretexhibition Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    Yes, I still have my desktop, but it's been collecting dust for quite a while. Been using my laptop instead. I don't think any of it's pieces I can re-use, unfortunately. =/ The HDD is a Caviar Blue 5200 rpm by memory, GPU was 5770 (?), etc. Even the case was way too heavy and bulky. The DVD RW? Heh.

    I might suggest keeping your GPU and HDD as storage and bumping up to an i5 and an SSD. Save a bit of your budget and upgrade the graphics card in a few months. Then you can get something that will be a bigger bump up than the 560ti.

    Thanks. I've decided to do something along those lines. Deliberated over it all with my good (computer engineer) friend and fiance over past week while keeping an eye out for deals.

    New build is:

    Case ($65): Thermaltake Black Commander MS-III Mid Tower Chassis (USB3)*
    PSU ($79): Corsair CX500 V3 80 PLUS BRONZE
    CPU ($189): Intel CPU Core i5 4430 Haswell 6MB Cache 3.0Ghz (up to 3.2GHz) LGA 1150 BX80646I54430 Quad Core Processor*
    Mobo ($80): Gigabyte GA-B85M-HD3 Intel Mainboard - LGA 1150*
    RAM ($70): Strontium 4GB 1333Mhz DDR3 Desktop RAM
    SSD ($99): Samsung 840 120GB (MZ-7TD120BW) 2.5" SSD
    GPU ($0): Radeon 5770
    HDD($0): WD Blue 5400 RPM (1 TB)

    Total: $582

    *Have bought Case, CPU, and Motherboard already.

    Any further opinions? I'm open to upgrading RAM, or going with a different PSU if it's viewed as a big upgrade.

    Confident this should play the game(s) I want it to as well as I can hope for. My monitor is 1360x768 btw, so hopefully that should mean it'll be more than enough. When I upgrade again in a couple years I intend to fully upgrade.

    P.S. Thanks to everyone for all their help thus far. Was definitely super useful. :)

    secretexhibition on
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    vegeta_666vegeta_666 CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    I got everything (including my new 7950!) installed in my new case with a new PSU! Games run so well now and it is the best thing ever.

    However there's a bit of an oddity. When I turn on the computer it will turn on for a brief moment, lights and fans and everything and then seemingly switch off. A few seconds later it will boot again and will start to run properly. Any reason for this? Should I be concerned?

    Edit: Also there's a huge side case fan that came with it that can be seen it in the second picture. It doesn't seem to plug in anywhere on the motherboard though, not the usual fan spots.

    vegeta_666 on
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    Steam: abunchofdaftpunk | PSN: noautomobilesgo | Lastfm: sjchszeppelin | Backloggery: colincummings | 3DS FC: 1392-6019-0219 |
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    Banzai5150Banzai5150 Registered User regular
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    I got everything (including my new 7950!) installed in my new case with a new PSU! Games run so well now and it is the best thing ever.

    However there's a bit of an oddity. When I turn on the computer it will turn on for a brief moment, lights and fans and everything and then seemingly switch off. A few seconds later it will boot again and will start to run properly. Any reason for this? Should I be concerned?

    Edit: Also there's a huge side case fan that came with it that can be seen it in the second picture. It doesn't seem to plug in anywhere on the motherboard though, not the usual fan spots.

    Does your MOBO do it's own test before a POST? I know my board runs a test, as you can tell by the hex numbers flashing on it, before it goes into POST, making it the slowest part of booting since I switched to a SSD.

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    tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    I got everything (including my new 7950!) installed in my new case with a new PSU! Games run so well now and it is the best thing ever.

    However there's a bit of an oddity. When I turn on the computer it will turn on for a brief moment, lights and fans and everything and then seemingly switch off. A few seconds later it will boot again and will start to run properly. Any reason for this? Should I be concerned?

    Edit: Also there's a huge side case fan that came with it that can be seen it in the second picture. It doesn't seem to plug in anywhere on the motherboard though, not the usual fan spots.

    1. Are you overclocking?
    2. Do you keep the power button on the PSU on the on position at all times (i.e. when you turn off your computer you don't also turn this off)?
    3. Do all of the fans spin up, both the ones directly connected to the PSU AND the ones connected to the motherboard?

    Double-check for any loose connections, that your CPU fan is plugged into the right header, etc.

    There are some other people having this problem:
    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=4636533
    http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/291176-30-asus-board-kinda-boot-fans-spin-stops-spin-again#4432772

    It looks like the big fan on the side plugs into the fan controller at the front of the case.

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Well today I replaced the stock fans on my H100 with a pair of Corsair SP120 PWM quiets.

    Noise levels have at least halved, it seems like more than that.

    So that's a big fat recommendation from me.

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    HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    attn: Internet Nerds

    <$100 printer+scanner recommendations?

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    HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    Oh and just fyi, NewEgg has the 7950 3GB Boost for $200 (after MIR).

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    attn: Internet Nerds

    <$100 printer+scanner recommendations?

    Kinkos.

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    To expand upon that:

    I am of the opinion that it just isn't worth it to buy your own printer/scanner anymore. Just pop your shit on a thumbdrive, and the stuff you need scanning in a manila folder, spend 20 minutes and a coupe of dollars at the copy place, and avoid dealing with printers, printer drivers, printer ink price gouging, FUCKING PAPER JAMS, just forget all the hassle and let some other schmuck worry about the hardware.

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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    To expand upon that:

    I am of the opinion that it just isn't worth it to buy your own printer/scanner anymore. Just pop your shit on a thumbdrive, and the stuff you need scanning in a manila folder, spend 20 minutes and a coupe of dollars at the copy place, and avoid dealing with printers, printer drivers, printer ink price gouging, FUCKING PAPER JAMS, just forget all the hassle and let some other schmuck worry about the hardware.

    I have a Kinkos nearby that is open 24/7. It is fucking amazing. I just upload the print job on their website, choose from options like paper type, ink, whatever, it's more customization than anyone needs but it's cool. And then I pick it up and I don't worry about ink levels or cleaning heads or whatever, it's just done, and it's cheap.

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    If I need something printed like you would at home, our local OfficeWorks (our version of Office Depot) prints A4 black and white for 7c a page.

    They also have a range of sizes, papers, colours, colour printing, printing on canvas, parchment, all sorts of crap.

    If you need something really flashy thee's a specialist chain of print shops called Snap Printing. They do basic shit all the way up to really flashy stuff for corporate presentations or wedding stuff, and it's still pretty cheap.

    To summarise, fuck home printing.

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    minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field njRegistered User regular
    Agreed. Fuck the consumer printer industry. Either buy a commercial quality laser printer or do your business at one of the dozens of printing chains.

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
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    SarksusSarksus ATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered User regular
    Yeah I know this isn't strictly relevant and helpful to your question, Hamurabi. Sorry 0 v 0 but I have a home printer + scanner and I don't bother using it anymore. It's too much of a hassle and I like to gush about Kinkos whenever I have the opportunity.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Owning a scanner is worth it, though.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    mightyjongyomightyjongyo Sour Crrm East Bay, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    These days I use my phone as a scanner. Quality is usually good enough that no one raises a fuss about it.

    My mom uses an Epson cx5000, it does alright. At the time (5 yrs ago) she paid maybe 150 for it?

    My opinion is that printers these days are about the same as far as build quality goes. Just pick the cheapest one that does what you want.

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    minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field njRegistered User regular
    Unless you're a photographer and/or need a high quality photo scanner, owner a scanner is pointless. Owner a scanner just for document scanning and basic photo scanning is a waste, if you own a smartphone. I scan all my documents (including my tax documents for my accountant) with my iPhone and the Genius Scan app. The quality is great, it can do color or b&w, auto or manual rotation/alignment, auto cropping, building multi-page PDFs, saving, and emailing. It's also infinitely faster than a traditional scanner hooked up to a computer.

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
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    hsuhsu Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    ...buy a commercial quality laser printer...
    I did this exact thing about 10 years ago. I picked up a used HP LaserJet 5si with a duplexer and network card, along with a new toner, and it still works perfectly today. You just cannot beat the quality of those old workstation printers by HP, back when the name HP meant something. I figure that 5si will last me the rest of my life.

    hsu on
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    CapsaicinCapsaicin I asked my 2 y/o son to draw a pic of my German mom, and thats what we got. Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    So since I built my computer, I'm looking to do some benchmarking and stress testing. Any recommendations?

    Recently the A/C in my house died and internal temps were over 85 degrees F. I still decided to play Rome II and my CPU temp reached 70 degrees C (i7 4770k at stock clock speeds). This sorta had me worried that maybe I hadn't installed my CPU cooler properly (212 evo).

    Any tips?

    Capsaicin on
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    Irate FetusIrate Fetus Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    I rather stupidly put this together nine months ago, and then got shipped off to a deployment. I made a lot of mistakes, what can I do to fix this?

    I actually have a Samsung 840 pro on standby, but that’s the only thing that has changed.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks
    CPU: Intel Core i5-3570 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($214.99 @ Newegg)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($179.99 @ Newegg)
    Memory: G.Skill Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($70.99 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($79.99 @ Newegg)
    Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 680 2GB Video Card ($399.99 @ Newegg)
    Case: Corsair 650D ATX Mid Tower Case ($189.98 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic 750W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($154.78 @ Newegg)

    Irate Fetus on
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    AlectharAlecthar Alan Shore We're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered User regular
    By "put this together" I assume you mean you actually built it. Aside from being significantly more expensive than necessary (why buy a Z77 board with 1 video card and a proc you can't overclock? Why a 750W supply for a single card? Why the 650D?) there's nothing wrong with it that an SSD won't cure. The GTX 680 is still a really great card, and the recent i5s are really close to each other in terms of stock performance, so it's unlikely you're really missing anything by not being on board with Haswell.

    That said, I wouldn't bother with an 840 Pro. It's really quite expensive, and you won't much of that performance on an everyday basis. The Samsung 840 EVO, Crucial M500, or (if you must go against the tide of popular opinion) Corsair Neutron are all solidly reliable SSDs with more than enough speed to satisfy virtually any consumer.

    If you haven't built the PC: What's your budget for the machine, do you want to overclock and what resolution is your monitor?

This discussion has been closed.