I'm told there are epic dungeons with guaranteed drops for completion that you cannot do unless you pay money.
There are 40 maps in the initial release, and 11 of them are "treasure hunts" with the guaranteed rare item at the end. There is nothing "epic" or otherwise special about them, they start at level 6 and are peppered throughout the ~18 levels of the initial campaign. There is absolutely nothing in there that is critical to playing and enjoying the campaign all the way to the end, or the multiplayer, and that guaranteed rare item is a thing you can find through normal play regardless.
Which works for some people and not for others. For me, "oh, you can get everything, you just have to grind" is not a valid excuse, because my time is worth more than that. And I don't care to have a discussion on what grind is, to me having to spend extra time repeating activities that paying members would not is grind and draws me out of the game and these days? I've no shortage of games to choose from.
Congratulations, you are in the segment of the population that companies expect to actually be able to pay for their games. If a particular one seems like a bad deal, fortunately there are lots of options out there.
I'm not complaining that I can't find other games, I'm complaining that I'd happily pay for this game, but find the options they offer me unacceptable. I can appreciate others find it fine and don't begrudge them this, but others finding it acceptable is entirely irrelevant to my own enjoyment.
Same goes for every MOBA: the arbitrary levels of your account are inconsequential.
Haven't read the entire thread, but I'd just like to say that this isn't true for every MOBA. For example, Prime World is a MOBA that is a lot more MMO-like, in that there is a lot of grind that has a big impact on in-game power.
Thanks Aldo for all the great threads. You got me into a few games that I really enjoyed, such as LOTRO and Perfect World, as well as playing a few awful games, like Rubies of Eventide, Runes of Magic, that Japanese pokemon demon-pet game... and others! It felt like a real frontier of weird games out there.
It was really interesting and terrifying to hop around a few of those games with friends of mine. Always a funny story, even without a fun game.
Same goes for every MOBA: the arbitrary levels of your account are inconsequential.
Haven't read the entire thread, but I'd just like to say that this isn't true for every MOBA. For example, Prime World is a MOBA that is a lot more MMO-like, in that there is a lot of grind that has a big impact on in-game power.
Huh, interesting. How does that work with the almost field ball sports like setting of MOBAs? (as in: there's a simple set of rules, every team starts on one end of the field and you win and lose as a team)
Same goes for every MOBA: the arbitrary levels of your account are inconsequential.
Haven't read the entire thread, but I'd just like to say that this isn't true for every MOBA. For example, Prime World is a MOBA that is a lot more MMO-like, in that there is a lot of grind that has a big impact on in-game power.
Huh, interesting. How does that work with the almost field ball sports like setting of MOBAs? (as in: there's a simple set of rules, everyone starts on one end of the field and you win and lose as a team)
There's also LOCO, where the champions' gear changes depending on level (I think it's 4 tiers across levels) and winning matches gives you a chance to unlock replacement pieces for various tiers.
I wonder if that game ever got anywhere near balanced.
The great thing about Planetside 2 is that free players provide even more content than they do in other games. Huge battles are the entire draw of it, so turning free players away is way against their interests.
There could still be improvements though, like starter vehicles missing valuable equipment you need to be effective. Also I'd like it if the free cert points weren't cut off at 12, giving people even more incentive to return to the game after long breaks.
I also love user-created gear in cash shops, it's hard to complain about that.
I'm of the same thought that Planetside got it right. No big shiney store button blaring in your face, nothing is required to be bought to be effective, no content paywalls but on the flip side, when I do open my wallet I feel like my purchases are worthwhile.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
The great thing about Planetside 2 is that free players provide even more content than they do in other games. Huge battles are the entire draw of it, so turning free players away is way against their interests.
There could still be improvements though, like starter vehicles missing valuable equipment you need to be effective. Also I'd like it if the free cert points weren't cut off at 12, giving people even more incentive to return to the game after long breaks.
I also love user-created gear in cash shops, it's hard to complain about that.
I'm of the same thought that Planetside got it right. No big shiney store button blaring in your face, nothing is required to be bought to be effective, no content paywalls but on the flip side, when I do open my wallet I feel like my purchases are worthwhile.
Totally agree.
Hell, one of the best guns in the game (at least back when I played) was a weapon that one of the classes started with. The thing was beastly.
Oddly enough if you fill your store with "Pay 2 Win" items, I won't touch it. If you fill it with cosmetic items that have zero bearing on gameplay though? I'll be spending far more than $15 a month. :P
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
In my opinion, Riot has set-up a more or less perfect F2P cash shop (...though it feels a bit funny to say that, given that I've boycotted said store duo to Riot's extremely poor customer service & failure to implement basic quality of life features): it is a thing that exists entirely separate from the game. It's basically an attached art gallery or action figure specialty store.
Of course, League has a few things going for it to make this model work:
1) Content creation for League is pretty minimal, allowing staff to focus on making really cool alternative character models / animations. Nobody has to build new maps, new game modes, new dungeons, new bosses, etc because the game is mostly centered around one big map.
2) The character roster is extremely prominent - almost as prominent as a fighting game's character roster. They are a Big Deal, and so buying alt-modes for such a core component of the game makes sense.
I think those are really deep pitfalls for an MMO that wants to go F2P; they don't have the luxury of being able to just say, "Eh, who needs new playable content?" and they don't usually have a fixed character roster. It's less appealing for a customer to buy a hat or trinket than it is to buy Megaman-themed Ezreal.
Aye, the big problem with the F2P model is that only certain kind of content is suitably to it. People like to tout it as a magic bullet, but it's anything but, if your game isn't suitable to it then it'll either not work ("why would I spend any money at all") or compromise it ("it's unplayable without spending money!"). And consequently, designing it as a F2P game from the ground up means you're excluding certain types of games from the equation entirely, which is probably fine for some people, but I quite enjoy many said types; having them disappear entirely because Must F2P Everything would be a tragedy.
I spent the last summer doing Star Trek Online on f2p basis.
I maxed out my character pretty quickly, but the idea of being able to buy shit by grinding in-game currency made me play more. I spent about 1 1/2 half months just grinding up dilithium so I could convert it to the devs currency. In the end I bought one of the ship packs they where selling. I just wanted to see how it worked. Luckily I started playing as an expansion was released, so there where enough people to play with.
It was fun, but not something I would recommend to others.
SWTOR is straight up fucking people up the ass with a razor dildo. Fuck, I saw what they where doing with the F2P and it killed my desire to play even as a subscriber. Giving money to those douchebags would only encourage them.
Kipling217 on
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
The great thing about Planetside 2 is that free players provide even more content than they do in other games. Huge battles are the entire draw of it, so turning free players away is way against their interests.
There could still be improvements though, like starter vehicles missing valuable equipment you need to be effective. Also I'd like it if the free cert points weren't cut off at 12, giving people even more incentive to return to the game after long breaks.
I also love user-created gear in cash shops, it's hard to complain about that.
I'm of the same thought that Planetside got it right. No big shiney store button blaring in your face, nothing is required to be bought to be effective, no content paywalls but on the flip side, when I do open my wallet I feel like my purchases are worthwhile.
Totally agree.
Hell, one of the best guns in the game (at least back when I played) was a weapon that one of the classes started with. The thing was beastly.
Oddly enough if you fill your store with "Pay 2 Win" items, I won't touch it. If you fill it with cosmetic items that have zero bearing on gameplay though? I'll be spending far more than $15 a month. :P
This so much.
Gameplay items are pretty easy to quantify value for to most people. Often three pounds for a gun is pretty easy to say no to just because the player can guess how much use they'll get out of it.
Things like skins and voice over switches however are really easy to charge pretty high amounts for and still get sales. Both because they don't effect gameplay and because you'll have people who really value certain cosmetics (I brought Pool Party Leona simply because her back animation is wonderful).
I spent the last summer doing Star Trek Online on f2p basis.
I maxed out my character pretty quickly, but the idea of being able to buy shit by grinding in-game currency made me play more. I spent about 1 1/2 half months just grinding up dilithium so I could convert it to the devs currency. In the end I bought one of the ship packs they where selling. I just wanted to see how it worked. Luckily I started playing as an expansion was released, so there where enough people to play with.
It was fun, but not something I would recommend to others.
When I came back to Champions Online a few weeks back I used the double XP weekend and alerts to level a character to 35, then spent some time daily to do questionite (CO's dilithium) runs, which I converted to the dev currency and bought a costume pack I wanted on a 20% off sale.
It wasn't really painful, but yeah, not really terribly exciting either. I never even made anything with the costume pieces, unlocking it was a good stopping point for me.
It's actually not a bad system, since someone had to pay for that dev currency you buy, which means that as long as they create good incentives to spend dilithium/questionite on free players who farm it are making money for them.
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Haven't read the entire thread, but I'd just like to say that this isn't true for every MOBA. For example, Prime World is a MOBA that is a lot more MMO-like, in that there is a lot of grind that has a big impact on in-game power.
It was really interesting and terrifying to hop around a few of those games with friends of mine. Always a funny story, even without a fun game.
Huh, interesting. How does that work with the almost field ball sports like setting of MOBAs? (as in: there's a simple set of rules, every team starts on one end of the field and you win and lose as a team)
Badly.
I wonder if that game ever got anywhere near balanced.
I'm of the same thought that Planetside got it right. No big shiney store button blaring in your face, nothing is required to be bought to be effective, no content paywalls but on the flip side, when I do open my wallet I feel like my purchases are worthwhile.
Totally agree.
Hell, one of the best guns in the game (at least back when I played) was a weapon that one of the classes started with. The thing was beastly.
Oddly enough if you fill your store with "Pay 2 Win" items, I won't touch it. If you fill it with cosmetic items that have zero bearing on gameplay though? I'll be spending far more than $15 a month. :P
In my opinion, Riot has set-up a more or less perfect F2P cash shop (...though it feels a bit funny to say that, given that I've boycotted said store duo to Riot's extremely poor customer service & failure to implement basic quality of life features): it is a thing that exists entirely separate from the game. It's basically an attached art gallery or action figure specialty store.
Of course, League has a few things going for it to make this model work:
1) Content creation for League is pretty minimal, allowing staff to focus on making really cool alternative character models / animations. Nobody has to build new maps, new game modes, new dungeons, new bosses, etc because the game is mostly centered around one big map.
2) The character roster is extremely prominent - almost as prominent as a fighting game's character roster. They are a Big Deal, and so buying alt-modes for such a core component of the game makes sense.
I think those are really deep pitfalls for an MMO that wants to go F2P; they don't have the luxury of being able to just say, "Eh, who needs new playable content?" and they don't usually have a fixed character roster. It's less appealing for a customer to buy a hat or trinket than it is to buy Megaman-themed Ezreal.
I maxed out my character pretty quickly, but the idea of being able to buy shit by grinding in-game currency made me play more. I spent about 1 1/2 half months just grinding up dilithium so I could convert it to the devs currency. In the end I bought one of the ship packs they where selling. I just wanted to see how it worked. Luckily I started playing as an expansion was released, so there where enough people to play with.
It was fun, but not something I would recommend to others.
SWTOR is straight up fucking people up the ass with a razor dildo. Fuck, I saw what they where doing with the F2P and it killed my desire to play even as a subscriber. Giving money to those douchebags would only encourage them.
This so much.
Gameplay items are pretty easy to quantify value for to most people. Often three pounds for a gun is pretty easy to say no to just because the player can guess how much use they'll get out of it.
Things like skins and voice over switches however are really easy to charge pretty high amounts for and still get sales. Both because they don't effect gameplay and because you'll have people who really value certain cosmetics (I brought Pool Party Leona simply because her back animation is wonderful).
It wasn't really painful, but yeah, not really terribly exciting either. I never even made anything with the costume pieces, unlocking it was a good stopping point for me.
It's actually not a bad system, since someone had to pay for that dev currency you buy, which means that as long as they create good incentives to spend dilithium/questionite on free players who farm it are making money for them.