Absolutely -- if you're trying to communicate quietly. If you don't mind who hears you, you can be heard all the way across the map by posting in-thread. :-D
Can't remember atm whether I stated this in the OP, but I meant to: Not gonna answer clarifications about specific pieces of cover, because that quickly cascades into answering it about the whole map, which is just really time-consuming on top of an already complex sub-game. However, I can tell you this:
1. In general, a wall is High Cover, and things less substantial than walls are Low Cover. In general.
It occurs to me that I didn't clarify this because I thought it was obvious, but: When counting your 5 tiles of movement or your 15 tiles of vision, remember that you should NOT count diagonally, only in the 4 cardinal directions. This means that even if you have a clear LOS to something, if it's further than 15 tiles away (or 7-8 diagonally), it won't be visible to you.
EDIT: Beaten by kime's question.
How does LoS work...really in general? So if there is no cover in the way, you vision radius would be 15 squares in each direction, then 14 and one over and so on, 13 and 2, etc? If I'm at a corner, e.g. D24, how far down C would I be able to see? 1 square over to the C row and then 14 up? For that matter, how does cover interact with LoS? I assume high cover would block it, but how about low cover. And if an enemy moves from cover to cover, but would pass within the sight range during their movement, would we catch a glimpse of them moving or would it be all
Also, can you indicate which squares the windows in the DE14-18 rooms are, since they have about half a square on either side of wall? And for that matter, I believe every single door is in 2 half-spaces
And is there a wall between the 2 bathroom stalls, or just half cover (and if it is half cover, why does it only extend 1 space, instead of to the stall doors?) (and also, that's another case of it being right in the middle of the cells, leading to...weird geometry)
That's a lot of separate questions, let me know if I missed anything.
How does LoS work...really in general? So if there is no cover in the way, you vision radius would be 15 squares in each direction, then 14 and one over and so on, 13 and 2, etc?
Exactly. Your sight radius basically makes a diamond shape, in the absence of any cover.
If I'm at a corner, e.g. D24, how far down C would I be able to see? 1 square over to the C row and then 14 up?
Exactly. Imagine -- and this will be familiar to anyone who's played the game -- that when you're taking cover, your LOS "peeks" around that cover. If you're at the corner, you can see down that wall.
For that matter, how does cover interact with LoS? I assume high cover would block it, but how about low cover.
Low cover does not block LoS. Furthermore, a rule of thumb is that LoS is a two-way street -- if you can see them, they can see you, and vice-versa. If you're standing at the corner, anyone who can see the corner can see you.
And if an enemy moves from cover to cover, but would pass within the sight range during their movement, would we catch a glimpse of them moving or would it be all <hidden movement>
It's...very funny you should bring up that image, actually.
But yes, more toward the <hidden movement> end of things. This is what Overwatch is for, pretty much.
Also, can you indicate which squares the windows in the DE14-18 rooms are, since they have about half a square on either side of wall?
Good point. The windows are considered "open" (though they cannot be passed through) on rows 15-17.
And for that matter, I believe every single door is in 2 half-spaces
Yeah, except for the bathrooms. In such cases, the door may be passed through from either of the two squares, and standing in either of the two squares will count as taking cover behind the wall (since it does extend into the square) while peering through the door (if it's already been opened). Kinda like standing at a corner of the building and peeking around it.
So say you're at....G18. Can you see all the way around the corner into the main dining room, or would the corner be limited to the 90 degrees around the corner, effectively stopping at the line light cover there.
Or, say there's destroyed cover, and there's just a single untouched pane of high cover in front of you (say, if someone detonated a grenated in the vicinity of the Q18ish corridor, but left the cover next to the (open) door standing. Would the LoS 'converge', but leave a blind spot against the other side of the high cover? (and just to be clear, high cover does block LoS, right? You only answered about the low cover)
Oh, and reguarding the bathroom, what about the 2 stalls in NO7-9, is there a wall of high cover between them? Is there a door access to both cubicles at Q8? How about P8? For that matter, if you're in P8, which cubicle would you be in?
So say you're at....G18. Can you see all the way around the corner into the main dining room, or would the corner be limited to the 90 degrees around the corner, effectively stopping at the line light cover there.
You can't be at G18...?
Or, say there's destroyed cover, and there's just a single untouched pane of high cover in front of you (say, if someone detonated a grenated in the vicinity of the Q18ish corridor, but left the cover next to the (open) door standing. Would the LoS 'converge', but leave a blind spot against the other side of the high cover? (and just to be clear, high cover does block LoS, right? You only answered about the low cover)
The LoS would converge, without a blind spot. Because you can see that corner, you'd be able to see anyone standing at it.
And yes, apart from the "see the corner, see the person standing at it" exception, High Cover blocks LoS.
Oh, and reguarding the bathroom, what about the 2 stalls in NO7-9, is there a wall of high cover between them? Is there a door access to both cubicles at Q8? How about P8? For that matter, if you're in P8, which cubicle would you be in?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
You'd receive cover from both directions. Granted, it's not likely to matter in such close quarters, but it could conceivably become relevant.
Sorry, E18, not G. The Corner with 2 sides of full cover.
So P18 has high cover on top and on the bottom, and a door to the right that might as as high cover, and low cover to the left? I guess being in shrodinger's wall between the 2 cubicles does that :P
Are Egos and Megafrost at the end of the car's halfcover or is there another square of it in the T column (4 squares long altogether). Ditto for the Vert-trust car, which clearly looks shorter, but also appears to be front alighed (less half a cell)
Also, instead of coming up with esoteric examples of LoS, I coul have jsut used a simpler one that already exists. How far around the corner can megafrost see? E.G. Can he see all the way to the end of the top door (K3)?
Can we open doors without either moving through them, or firing through them? Also, invalid orders default to hunker down, right? Is that before everything else with the people who didn't submit orders, or does the putting them to the side mean that you're double penalized and go last. Also, what about partially invalid orders, e.g. moving is fine, but the shooty target is not there, or the movement is invalid, but the attack target is also able to be attacked without moving?
Also, overwatch only triggers on movement not on, say, attacks from a stationary target?
Ok, so, my squad, change of plans, regroup towards the point we dropped from our deployment plan when the numbers were clarified. With comms down we're going to have to co-ordinate on the fly. If you've already submitted your orders, whelp... sorry?
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AssuranIs swinging on the SpiralRegistered Userregular
Ebum , I figure this is a good place to renew our The Ohio State University/Team Up North rivalry.
Have at thee!
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Iron WeaselDillon!You son of a bitch!Registered Userregular
MikeyCTS, because I like him the best.
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The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
edited October 2013
So: it was 7 / 7 / 6 / 6.
Obi, are you in the center-right group or the lower-right group?
Top right:
Egos, Megafrost, Mill, Vertroue, Turanos, Trust
Center right:
Flarne, SeGa, Assuran, Shalmelo, IW, Peccavi, Obi
At least one person in each of those groups is presumably mafia, which makes things sorta-easier. I'd guess there are 6 of them total, which would be a little high but not unreasonable. This doesn't help us figure out who they are, and neither does checking distribution vs. the player list, which I initially thought it might, but having done the work I'm putting it out there.
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And you will always be beaten by me, Gandalf
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Soldiers prefer to use their inside voices.
Absolutely -- if you're trying to communicate quietly. If you don't mind who hears you, you can be heard all the way across the map by posting in-thread. :-D
15 tiles from each soldier, so yeah.
Can't remember atm whether I stated this in the OP, but I meant to: Not gonna answer clarifications about specific pieces of cover, because that quickly cascades into answering it about the whole map, which is just really time-consuming on top of an already complex sub-game. However, I can tell you this:
1. In general, a wall is High Cover, and things less substantial than walls are Low Cover. In general.
2. Those are garbage cans.
No.
From the Desk of Darth Vertroue Diplomat to the USA.
How does LoS work...really in general? So if there is no cover in the way, you vision radius would be 15 squares in each direction, then 14 and one over and so on, 13 and 2, etc? If I'm at a corner, e.g. D24, how far down C would I be able to see? 1 square over to the C row and then 14 up? For that matter, how does cover interact with LoS? I assume high cover would block it, but how about low cover. And if an enemy moves from cover to cover, but would pass within the sight range during their movement, would we catch a glimpse of them moving or would it be all
Also, can you indicate which squares the windows in the DE14-18 rooms are, since they have about half a square on either side of wall? And for that matter, I believe every single door is in 2 half-spaces
Exactly. Your sight radius basically makes a diamond shape, in the absence of any cover.
Exactly. Imagine -- and this will be familiar to anyone who's played the game -- that when you're taking cover, your LOS "peeks" around that cover. If you're at the corner, you can see down that wall.
Low cover does not block LoS. Furthermore, a rule of thumb is that LoS is a two-way street -- if you can see them, they can see you, and vice-versa. If you're standing at the corner, anyone who can see the corner can see you.
It's...very funny you should bring up that image, actually.
But yes, more toward the <hidden movement> end of things. This is what Overwatch is for, pretty much.
Good point. The windows are considered "open" (though they cannot be passed through) on rows 15-17.
Yeah, except for the bathrooms. In such cases, the door may be passed through from either of the two squares, and standing in either of the two squares will count as taking cover behind the wall (since it does extend into the square) while peering through the door (if it's already been opened). Kinda like standing at a corner of the building and peeking around it.
Talking about magically teleporting, do aliens get a free move to cover whenever we spoit one? :bz
Yes. Kinda.
No.
Or, say there's destroyed cover, and there's just a single untouched pane of high cover in front of you (say, if someone detonated a grenated in the vicinity of the Q18ish corridor, but left the cover next to the (open) door standing. Would the LoS 'converge', but leave a blind spot against the other side of the high cover? (and just to be clear, high cover does block LoS, right? You only answered about the low cover)
You can't be at G18...?
The LoS would converge, without a blind spot. Because you can see that corner, you'd be able to see anyone standing at it.
And yes, apart from the "see the corner, see the person standing at it" exception, High Cover blocks LoS.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
You'd receive cover from both directions. Granted, it's not likely to matter in such close quarters, but it could conceivably become relevant.
I'm going to bed.
...nobody's voted. Why is nobody voting?
So P18 has high cover on top and on the bottom, and a door to the right that might as as high cover, and low cover to the left? I guess being in shrodinger's wall between the 2 cubicles does that :P
you know what we're all thinking
Egos.
We're doing this Russian style. Bullet to the head for the first man who breaks. Good for morale!
Why I fear the ocean.
Also, overwatch only triggers on movement not on, say, attacks from a stationary target?
Ah, noted.
I put it in green on accident, so I tried to fix. Should I just do a new one or what?
Why I fear the ocean.
no, you shouldn't
Reminding me that "Avatar" is a film that exists is a capital offense.
Why I fear the ocean.
Have at thee!
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
Obi, are you in the center-right group or the lower-right group?
Top right:
Egos, Megafrost, Mill, Vertroue, Turanos, Trust
Center right:
Flarne, SeGa, Assuran, Shalmelo, IW, Peccavi, Obi
Lower right:
Mikey, Cyth, kime, T_A, SLyM, jdark
Lower left (Alpha Squad):
Auralynx, undermono, Grimmy, ebum, chiasaur, Buddha, Spoit.
At least one person in each of those groups is presumably mafia, which makes things sorta-easier. I'd guess there are 6 of them total, which would be a little high but not unreasonable. This doesn't help us figure out who they are, and neither does checking distribution vs. the player list, which I initially thought it might, but having done the work I'm putting it out there.
Collectively, do we have a plan?