Ladies (and everyone), would you consider this a date? And what would you want out of it?

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  • john392john392 Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Wow i didn't think I would get this type of reaction. I should seek help?

    I've been rejected plenty of times, its most of my prior experience with women. it sucks/life goes on I totally realize that. Id just rather not have this end like that when I think it will.


    We don't really talk that much outside of class I've noticed...., she actually called me Saturday 'possibly' to invite me over for food, but i was out and about. I returned her call fairly quickly but she didnt get back to me until about 7 hours later late that night. I texted her good morning and she immediately got back to me, I wished her a chill day at work and never heard back. Absent today in class and still haven't heard from her.

    So I'm just thinking that I'd be better off just canceling. I dont want to be rejected/disappointed again. She only seems marginally interested. I should reserve this games and stuff like this for real dates or just taking my buddies. Taking a girl to something as relatively big/expensive as this and not progressing towards anything (although her intentions wouldn't be bad I know) is sort of pathetic.

    Hopefully this clarifies why I'm going to cancel.

    john392 on
  • chr1sh4ll3ttb3chr1sh4ll3ttb3 A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Yeah, good idea. Cancel the date. It doesn't seem like you're ready to socialise in adult circles yet.

    HollerYoSoyTheWalrusUsagiSCREECH OF THE FARGLilnoobs
  • HollerHoller Registered User regular
    john392 wrote: »
    So I'm just thinking that I'd be better off just canceling. I dont want to be rejected/disappointed again. She only seems marginally interested. I should reserve this games and stuff like this for real dates or just taking my buddies. Taking a girl to something as relatively big/expensive as this and not progressing towards anything (although her intentions wouldn't be bad I know) is sort of pathetic.

    Hopefully this clarifies why I'm going to cancel.

    Honestly, a guy who sets all of his hopes on one person and then backs off without even communicating it/trying, abandoning the entire situation because he thinks spending time with a woman he enjoys talking to but who might not want to bone him is a waste of time... that's pretty unattractive. If you're trying to pin down what being pathetic looks like, it looks like you're on the right path.

    But I also think that canceling is probably the right move. You really need to work on your social skills and confidence before you get into dating, it sounds like.

    WiseManTobesCambiata
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    So you don't want her for a friend, and you don't think of her as a friend. Also, even if you have a girl who is a friend, she isn't worth taking to a hockey game because she is a girl, even though she likes hockey enough to go to a game, because progress toward sex with her will not be made.

    I mean, it's really worth examining what you're saying with this.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    Drezchr1sh4ll3ttb3CambiataShivahnEncUsagiDread Pirate ArbuthnotSCREECH OF THE FARGLilnoobsQuidKristmas Kthulhu
  • john392john392 Registered User regular
    I haven't attacked any posters here, why are people really putting me down? To the point of saying I have severe problems and need help. Why? I mean I thank all the advice and thoughts that come in. I really do. Its why I posted this to begin with and why I follow along and reply.

    I don't plan on being mean to her at all. Or cancelling last minute. I mean she hasn't contacted me in several days and missed class today. Granted that could be for a million reasons, but it seems fishy occurring directly after our recent meeting and contact, part of why I began to take cancelling into thought. I realized not seeing each other in class took away a huge part of the way we talk to each other.

    With all the incredible outpouring of 'No-don't do that!!!' I might reconsider. But what is behind all of these 'unfit for society' stuff coming from? Why is realizing you like someone -- but at the same time realizing that its most likely for naught and pondering cutting my losses bad? I'm a person too and have been hurt/embarrassed/missed the boat plenty of times.

  • EsseeEssee The pinkest of hair. Victoria, BCRegistered User regular
    john392 wrote: »
    I mean she hasn't contacted me in several days and missed class today. Granted that could be for a million reasons, but it seems fishy occurring directly after our recent meeting and contact, part of why I began to take cancelling into thought. I realized not seeing each other in class took away a huge part of the way we talk to each other.

    I think it's entirely possible that the lack of contact and missed class have something to do with each other. However, even if they do, there's still no reason to believe that EITHER of those things have anything to do with you! She's a person just like you-- she could easily have something going on that is completely unrelated to you in any way. Maybe she caught a cold or the flu, so she felt ill enough that she didn't want to talk. Maybe she hasn't been in a good mood the last several days because something's wrong in one of the many facets of her life that don't involve you, and that's why she didn't come to class or talk to you. Or maybe she's just busy recently, or maybe she didn't get enough sleep before class. You don't know, because you haven't asked her. I have personally been in all of these positions over the years, and I bet you've been in at least one of them at some point in your life. Give her the same benefit of the doubt you give yourself.

    And for crying out loud, just go to the damn game you already have tickets for. You WILL have a good time if you actually focus on the game instead of making the entire outing about whether or not she's into you. There's no reason to cancel plans you've already made for an event you would personally enjoy because MAYBE nothing more will happen after this with the person you're going with. Just go, have fun, and then try to find out if she would like to go for another date. Don't reject yourself before she gets the opportunity! I don't think cancelling is actually going to make you feel any better about this (you're going to feel hurt/embarrassed/pathetic/etc. either way, I think), so you might as well go and enjoy the game you've already prepared for. The funny thing about trying rather than giving up before you even do something is... sometimes it actually works out! Being a defeatist will get you nowhere.

    ArbitraryDescriptorCambiataJulius
  • FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    You're analyzing every single thing that happens individually and applying a significant meaning to these little things. It's not because she isn't getting in touch with you regularly that she doesn't care or has no interest. Everyone works in different ways.

    Don't have any expectations. Don't see this as a mean to further a goal. Just enjoy the game, enjoy her company. And see where it goes from there.

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    EsseeArbitraryDescriptor
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 2013
    I don't think anyone called you unfit for society... but if you get yourself so worked up over whether or not something is a date that your inclination is to cancel the whole thing without asking because she doesn't text you "good morning" when you haven't even been on a date yet then I maintain that you have a real problem. I don't know what your answer is.. some careful introspection about why you've built it up so much, therapy, or some sort of self-help book.. but whatever it is you should do it because this is not a good situation. And deciding not to ask her in the first place is one thing, but you've already made the plans.

    There isn't really anything wrong with not wanting to be friends with someone you've had a crush on who doesn't want to date you.. I think it's short-sighted, but if you can't let the crush go then it's probably better not to. There's nothing wrong with cutting your losses if someone turns you down. The thing is, you don't even know that yet because you haven't talked to her. You're dismissing the whole thing based on a fiction you've built up on your head because she doesn't text you every day.

    I mean, there's also the fact that you've insinuated that it's not worth taking a female friend who likes hockey to a hockey game if you aren't dating her where you might take a male friend, but I suppose that's a sad can of worms we shouldn't open here. You just make it sound like you only ever intend to make plans with girls you can reasonably expect to put out at some point, and that's really off-putting. I do not understand how a ticket you have anyway could be wasted on a hockey fan otherwise.

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    EsseeCambiataShivahn
  • john392john392 Registered User regular

    ceres wrote: »
    I mean, there's also the fact that you've insinuated that it's not worth taking a female friend who likes hockey to a hockey game if you aren't dating her where you might take a male friend, but I suppose that's a sad can of worms we shouldn't open here. You just make it sound like you only ever intend to make plans with girls you can reasonably expect to put out at some point, and that's really off-putting. I do not understand how a ticket you have anyway could be wasted on a hockey fan otherwise.

    Please tell me. I'm not even trying to troll or be insincere. How is that sad and off-putting?

    I'm not using this to do anything sinister. I thought it was a way to possibly advance things. But then I realized that this is a significant investment of time and money that might end up with me really disappointed in how things go afterwards. I know I'm not very successful with women, its been like that my whole life. But a whole lot of guys and gals do a whole let less than this and get 'something' out of it. See where I'm getting at? I don't want to look back on this that I dropped a lot of money for this, and well, went to a hockey game with a female who had no interest, but still had put a hurting on my wallet, since if she's there with me I'm going to be tempted to buy stuff like food and drinks and would never say 'Is me buying food and drinks romantic?, No you say?, well you owe me $25'

  • HollerHoller Registered User regular
    The more you talk about this, the more it sounds like you are doing her a favor by calling it off.

    Your approach with women is deeply unattractive, and you will probably continue to strike out if this is how you are interacting with them. You seem uninterested in listening to any of the very good advice that has been presented here about what is actually wrong with this situation, so I'm officially checking out. But good luck, I guess.

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  • FyndirFyndir Registered User regular
    john392 wrote: »
    I haven't attacked any posters here, why are people really putting me down? To the point of saying I have severe problems and need help. Why?

    Being told that you may have a problem and might want to consider seeking professional help to find out for sure and potentially receive appropriate treatment is not someone putting you down, it's someone trying to help you.

    UsagiTychoCelchuuu
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    john392 wrote: »
    Taking a girl to something as relatively big/expensive as this and not progressing towards anything (although her intentions wouldn't be bad I know) is sort of pathetic.

    Hopefully this clarifies why I'm going to cancel.

    Which part of treating a cool chick (who might like you) to her first hockey game is pathetic? The part where you'll enjoy yourself, or the part where she'll enjoy herself?

    Or the third part where you cancel on her (for the second time, if I understand correctly), because you're overthinking a non-reply to text message?

    Because none of those things read as textbook-pathetic to me, even if the latter is a bit of a bummer.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • wiltingwilting Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    John, I know exactly where you are coming from in terms of feeling like the advice you are getting is an attack on you. It isn't. The exact same thing happened to me, I started a help/advice thread and said some stupid things and people told me I was being stupid and I felt attacked. Some jumped to incorrect, hurtful conclusions about me but that was the message I was giving out. They were trying to help me and gave me the attitude readjustment/perspective I needed, solving the problem for me. The people in this thread are trying to help you, not just with your dating life, but with a more fulfilling life generally.
    john392 wrote: »
    Please tell me. I'm not even trying to troll or be insincere. How is that sad and off-putting?

    I'm not using this to do anything sinister. I thought it was a way to possibly advance things. But then I realized that this is a significant investment of time and money that might end up with me really disappointed in how things go afterwards. I know I'm not very successful with women, its been like that my whole life. But a whole lot of guys and gals do a whole let less than this and get 'something' out of it. See where I'm getting at? I don't want to look back on this that I dropped a lot of money for this, and well, went to a hockey game with a female who had no interest, but still had put a hurting on my wallet, since if she's there with me I'm going to be tempted to buy stuff like food and drinks and would never say 'Is me buying food and drinks romantic?, No you say?, well you owe me $25'

    Because you are demonstrating that you only see women as prizes to be won through a series of correct steps rather than as individual interesting human beings to get to know and have neat experiences with.

    Your talk of time, money and getting something out of it is completely the wrong attitude. This isn't a financial transaction. She isn't a prostitute. She is a human being who you are trying to get to know.

    Yeah, socializing takes time and money, and sometimes you need a break from it, but it is pretty much the best thing to spend your time and money on, regardless if it is romantic or not.

    To give an example, I bought rather expensive concert tickets for a girl I liked as a surprise for her birthday. Yes, I was hoping that it would lead somewhere, but I was motivated by her being disappointed by recently missing out on music/cultural events she had been planning on going to. I wanted to do something nice for her, because I liked her as a person, and her happiness was something I enjoyed, first and foremost. I did some research with her friends first to see if this was a good idea (getting me in the good books in the process, but primarily to check if I was making a misstep). We went to the concert, had one of those amazing nights filled with great stories, and at the end of the night she drunkenly kissed me. But she was staying the night with me far away from her home town for the purposes of this concert, so I was conscious of the fact that she was 'trapped' with me and it would be inappropriate to make a move, or the expect a sexual reward for my good deed. I didn't push anything, and put her to bed (and got called creepy for my trouble) when others might think 'drunk girl! now its my chance!'.

    We kissed for real the next time we met up, in an equal terms safe public context, and she is now my girlfriend. Now that she is my girlfriend the wheels haven't stopped. I still do things for her like get her gifts I know she will like (something as simple as a bottle of Dr. Pepper, or a jigsaw puzzle), or cook elaborate meals for her. Not in expectation of some reward, but because I like doing nice things for her because I like her as a person and enjoy her enjoyment. Nor have I stopped communicating with her friends, they are cool/funny people I enjoy spending time with and hearing about.

    You should know that this girl was also super slow responding to my communications. I didn't think I was being overly pushy at all, but in hindsight she told me that I had been really irritating her, just because she needs her space and takes her time communicating with people, which is just the type of person she is. I learned to communicate with her in the way that she liked, and she appreciated it.

    I am not some super social animal, I am a natural introvert with social anxiety, who hadn't had any success with women for years, and was very nervous throughout this whole process.

    Not only is your attitude completely fucked, but it doesn't help your goal of making it with a woman at all. You want a genuine human connection, not a dating transaction.

    One of the best ways to get a girls approval is to have female friends that speak positively of you, and especially to get in the good books with that girls friends.

    How do you do this? By being friends with girls, and socializing with girls in non date contexts. Getting invited on nights out with the girl you are friends with to meet all of her friends, and getting on with them, and even socializing with them independently (I went running with one of my girlfriend-to-be friend's a couple of times). Your positive reports from all these girls go back to the original girl, or the next girl you meet that you want to pursue, AND you have a better idea of how to interact with women in the first place from all these interactions. Plus you have fun interacting with interesting human people!

    Dating and socializing are not win-lose transactions. Its a process by which you get to know people and enjoy their company not as prizes to be won but as equals, which is ultimately a much more rewarding experience, which will not only lead you to the relationship you want but grow your life experience and change you in ways you might not anticipate.

    I would stop thinking about dating at all. Just focus on learning to socialize with women, learn to appreciate them individually, form a social group of approving women around you. Learn to be a human person who appreciates human people and not an insert time/money get relationship dating robot.

    Nobody here is attacking you, we are trying to help you, based on the information you have given us. I apologize if I have drawn any incorrect conclusions about you, but it is pretty clear you need an attitude adjustment.

    wilting on
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  • john392john392 Registered User regular
    wilting wrote: »

    Because you are demonstrating that you only see women as prizes to be won through a series of correct steps rather than as individual interesting human beings to get to know and have neat experiences with.

    Your talk of time, money and getting something out of it is completely the wrong attitude. This isn't a financial transaction. She isn't a prostitute. She is a human being who you are trying to get to know.

    Dating and socializing are not win-lose transactions. Its a process by which you get to know people and enjoy their company not as prizes to be won but as equals, which is ultimately a much more rewarding experience, which will not only lead you to the relationship you want but grow your life experience and change you in ways you might not anticipate.

    I would stop thinking about dating at all. Just focus on learning to socialize with women, learn to appreciate them individually, form a social group of approving women around you. Learn to be a human person who appreciates human people and not an insert time/money get relationship dating robot.

    Nobody here is attacking you, we are trying to help you, based on the information you have given us. I apologize if I have drawn any incorrect conclusions about you, but it is pretty clear you need an attitude adjustment.

    To: wilting,

    First thanks for the thorough post. Read every inch backwards and forwards. You're a lucky man, wish you and your SO the best. Not to shoot down any of your story or advice, because it is great and relevant. I'm just going to point out in a few ways it applies to me. I don't necessarily view women as prizes. Maybe it was coming off that way. I did take this girl out though awhile back. I didn't expect (or get) anything. We kept talking. Although it cost me a pretty dime, because she never offered to split the final bill, I just went with it and I can say we enjoyed our time together. Hell we even went to lunch last Friday and I let her pay me back for what she ordered. I didn't expect anything.

    Maybe its a fallacy, but I thought she kept showing interest, so I conjured this up, since I had even alluded to go to a game before this one. Granted its probably for the best that I cancel because clearly something is up with her from over the weekend (granted it could be anything, but come on, let's be real here - whatever I said/she thinks isn't good) she 'may' still want to 'kinda' go, but its painfully obvious that nothing will come of me taking her.

    I actually have a decent amount of friends who are girls that I hang with regularly, most are in relationships - I just know them from elsewhere, and we have a good time. Would you believe me if I told you I LIVE in a temporary situation with 3 other girls? Believe it. If the story isn't boring, its long, I got a sublease from an acquaintance for the Fall semester because I am graduating this December. The three of them are all in LTR, but we get along fine and fun-ly (not even close to a word I know)

    Point being. I'm in an environment (my college) where most people get their's (whatever that may be) extremely easily. I don't, my flirting skills are bad and my social circle has had various holes in it over the years. Specifically this situation was obviously a bad idea. I thought that I was getting somewhere, recent events and just overall clarity point to I'm not. But the "getting somewhere" has obviously been the issue since I said I was going to cancel on her. I get that treating women as prizes is bad and/or objectifies them. But I should just brush off the fact that tons of people are either in relationships/having casual sex/insert whatever, because well its bad to start talking to a girl in the attempt to get to one of these places? When you don't have many options for a relationship (and have had your own personal share of rejection), plus most of the people around you are in one, you kinda assume/hope/pray that taking a girl you like to something like this game would lead to something. I don't even want to debate the "theory behind" or "logic behind" anything, I'm just applying to this situation.

    Maybe I do have issues, but none of this was done in bad blood, especially regarding the girl. I just reached the conclusion, that not taking her to this game (assuming she still wants to go for whatever reason), would be in our both best interest. She may miss out on a hockey game, but I don't think she would of wanted to go with me if my hand was around her or holding her hand during the game, which is what I wanted.

    I hope this makes more sense

  • wiltingwilting Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Its good to see more of the person behind the screen. Thank for listening and the kind words. I don't really know what else to say, maybe someone else can chime in. The flirting, the rules, the signals and stuff that we try to interpret, that is mostly bullshit. I would just repeat to try to not to think/worry so much, focus on having fun and building human contacts. Your female friends and housemates are a good resource, make an effort to keep up with them, meet their friends, see if they will introduce you to their single friends, etc. As a guy, your eligibility goes up as you get older, if that's any comfort.

    Yeah, and ask the girl to the hockey game, you've got nothing to lose.

    wilting on
    KiasCambiataShivahnEssee
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    John, seriously, just ask her. This whole thread has been about one simple question: Will she date you.

    Instead of finding out conclusively, you're just assuming the worst and bailing. The examples presented of her perceived disinterest are inconclusive at best. Just ask her out on proper date . Tonight, tomorrow, whatever. Soon. If she refuses, you're free to wash your hands of it and continue as planned; without any regrets.


    EsseeSCREECH OF THE FARG
  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    @john392 The problem is that you're in your head. That's about the worst place you can be.

    Take a deep breath. Then take a few more. You're anxious, but that's normal!

    You're overthinking this and thinking your way out of that can't happen. So whenever you find yourself worrying about this, just think of something funny or that makes you smile.

    hE436DFCD
    It's a sloth, get it?!?! :)


    I know my original advice was to wait until after the game, but I'm changing it. Take the advice earlier and send her a simple text saying something like "I'm really looking forward to our hockey date". Then wait for a response. This will be rough and will hurt and you'll want to send another text. Don't do it. Deep breaths, accept your anxiety, and think of something that makes you smile.

    She's either going to respond in the affirmative, the negative, or with uncertainty. The first is good and the third might be good, depending. But even the negative is good because you dealt with your anxiety properly and next time will be easier.

    TL;DR - Think of the kittens. They'll be sad if you cancel
    h5D1087FE

    CambiataEssee
  • GizzyGizzy i am a cat PhoenixRegistered User regular
    Now it sounds like canceling is a good idea bc of this scenario:

    Him: I'm excited about our hockey date!
    Her: oh it's not a date
    Him: uhhh family emergency, can't go

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  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    Gizzy wrote: »
    Now it sounds like canceling is a good idea bc of this scenario:

    Him: I'm excited about our hockey date!
    Her: oh it's not a date
    Him: uhhh family emergency, can't go

    That's a terrible idea.

    What happens when he sees her in class and she asks how his family is doing?

  • GizzyGizzy i am a cat PhoenixRegistered User regular
    That's why I'm saying cancel in advance is now a good idea - so that he doesn't go there

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  • GizzyGizzy i am a cat PhoenixRegistered User regular
    Bc it sounds like if he's gonna spend money it's gonna be on a date or a male friend - but def not "waste" it on a female friend

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  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    Well I don't think he should cancel at all.

  • GizzyGizzy i am a cat PhoenixRegistered User regular
    I think that's what everyone was saying - until he said it would be a waste of his time and money. He shouldn't go if he's going to resent her.

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  • MentalExerciseMentalExercise Indefenestrable Registered User regular
    Shit, to ask her you can even just send her a text!

    "So, you wanna make a proper date out of this hockey game?"

    "More fish for Kunta!"

    --LeVar Burton
    gjaustinCambiataArbitraryDescriptorOats
  • john392john392 Registered User regular
    I'm not texting her today, especially not a random 'is this a date' text in the middle of the day - probably be seen as incredibly creepy given I didn't even get a response the last time I contacted her. If anything I'll just wait until tomorrow when/if I see her in our class and see what's up. Maybe she'll be enthusiastic, but I'm not holding my breath. If I don't see her or hear from her I think its pretty safe to say that she doesn't even want to go anymore.

    I'm still leaning towards just calling it off all together, but I don't think I will do that today.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    john392 wrote: »
    I get that treating women as prizes is bad and/or objectifies them. But I should just brush off the fact that tons of people are either in relationships/having casual sex/insert whatever, because well its bad to start talking to a girl in the attempt to get to one of these places? When you don't have many options for a relationship (and have had your own personal share of rejection), plus most of the people around you are in one, you kinda assume/hope/pray that taking a girl you like to something like this game would lead to something. I don't even want to debate the "theory behind" or "logic behind" anything, I'm just applying to this situation.

    Maybe I do have issues, but none of this was done in bad blood, especially regarding the girl. I just reached the conclusion, that not taking her to this game (assuming she still wants to go for whatever reason), would be in our both best interest. She may miss out on a hockey game, but I don't think she would of wanted to go with me if my hand was around her or holding her hand during the game, which is what I wanted.

    I hope this makes more sense

    I get it John, I really do. I was young once, and I too had a lot of wrong ideas about what dating meant.

    The first thing you need to wrap your head around is that being nice to someone, or buying them tickets/dinner/whatever are not investments in future sex, and shouldn't be viewed as if they are. If your perspective is "Since I bought a ticket for this person, if I don't get sex/hugs/hand holding out of the transaction at some point then I am pathetic", then you're not really looking at this other person as a human being to care about, you're looking at them as a coin-operated ride. "Insert hockey ticket here for hand holding." Not very attractive, is it? Imagine if she viewed you the same way: "Insert hand holding here for free hockey ticket." If you thought she was viewing the game that way, how would it make you feel about her?

    Esseechr1sh4ll3ttb3SentryDrezQuidAegeriTychoCelchuuu
  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    john392 wrote: »
    I'm not texting her today, especially not a random 'is this a date' text in the middle of the day - probably be seen as incredibly creepy given I didn't even get a response the last time I contacted her. If anything I'll just wait until tomorrow when/if I see her in our class and see what's up. Maybe she'll be enthusiastic, but I'm not holding my breath. If I don't see her or hear from her I think its pretty safe to say that she doesn't even want to go anymore.

    I'm still leaning towards just calling it off all together, but I don't think I will do that today.

    It's hard once you go down the second-guessing rabbit hole to emerge from it. Every non-returned text, or absence from class seems like a clue in a story you're creating that will ultimately justify why you're choosing to reject her before she can reject you. You say you've been rejected quite a bit, and I think it's possible that you've become comfortable with it. It feels natural, and if things don't go exactly according to a script in your head, then you assume it will end in the same way. The problem with dating, and relationships in general is that they get harder and harder as you grow older. You have more commitments, responsibilities, and pressures in your life. There could be 20 good reasons why she hasn't responded yet.

    You probably aren't looking for those at this point, as the scales have tipped in your head that she isn't interested in you. Here's an important lesson to learn in dating and relationships: not having the same amount of interest as you is not the same as having no interest at all. I think she's at least interested in a friendship, which is why you communicate outside of class. If that's not what you're interested in, that's okay too. If you're not ready to have any kind of relationship but a romantic one, it is probably best you're not friends. It doesn't sound like you're able to handle that right now.

    I think you're just finding reasons to get out of this because you know there's a chance you might get hurt. But there's always a chance you will get hurt, even if you're married for 25 years with kids. It will always be there, in every relationship you have.

    I vote for giving it a chance, but I also understand not wanting to get hurt. If I was wanting to know if she was still interested, I would call and leave a message or text something like, "Hey ______, haven't heard from you in a while and I know we were planning to go to the game on (whenever). I'm thinking you might be sick, so please call me or text me back by (whenever) to let me know you still want to go." I think it's fair that since she said she wanted to go, and that you two don't know each other well enough that it's just always assumed that she's reliable, that she should confirm at least a few days before. If she can't do that, let her know you're giving her a ticket to a friend because you never heard back, and no hard feelings. Don't sulk about it, or make up some imaginary narrative about why she didn't call, just move on.

    CambiatagjaustinEssee
  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    I think what a lot of people are reacting to here, @john392, is the fact that you are not interested in going to this game with this woman if she isn't interested in you, despite the fact that you are on friendly terms, she has unequivocally indicated interest in going, and you have already invited her.

    Here is the part I believe most of us are taking umbrage with:
    john392 wrote: »
    Taking a girl to something as relatively big/expensive as this and not progressing towards anything (although her intentions wouldn't be bad I know) is sort of pathetic.

    What this seems to say is that girls are not worth doing things with if you don't believe those things will lead to a relationship/sex. It literally says that it is pathetic to do things with girls that aren't interested in you. This is an EXTREMELY unhealthy perspective to have, and in tandem with your neurotic over-analyzing of every little thing that has (or has not) transpired with this woman, is leading a lot of folks around here to be somewhat concerned about you.

    I want to be clear: no one thinks you're a monster. You're a confused guy with low self-esteem who is beating himself up about someone he's interested in, and just about all of us have been there at some point. You are not alone.

    I would implore you to consider whether the man you want to be -- the man who may someday be the father of a little girl himself -- considers it polite or kind behavior to cancel plans with someone because they are not someone you are likely to sleep with in the future, or whether it is fair or even rational to hold someone to a set of unspoken rules or requirements (e.g. return my calls by a certain time, text me back promptly, etc) leading to an end goal (i.e. a relationship) that has not been made in any way explicit.

    seasleepyThe EnderGizzyEsseeCambiatachr1sh4ll3ttb3cookiekrushSCREECH OF THE FARGLilnoobsAegeriTychoCelchuuu
  • NotYouNotYou Registered User regular
    There's a certain attitude that people gradually develop as they start pursuing women and getting older. You start off in this creepy crush phase you're currently in where you can't stop thinking about this girl you've never had a date with and she seems really important to you and you're just terrified of fucking it up. After doing that a few times you start to realize how stupid it is to get attached to someone you barely know at all. Some people need some heartbreak to get to that point, but as you go through relationships or infatuations it starts to take a lot longer for you to develop strong feelings. It's at that point where people start to become more successful with the opposite sex. Your attitude becomes "I'm just feeling this out, so let's see how this develops, ok?", and that attitude isn't threatening or overwhelming to the other party and can create an environment where there are less hard feelings and more fun.

    Now as far as your current situation. Everyone is telling you to calm the F down and control your crazy emotions, but I realize that's probably impossible. You're just not at that point where you can do that through sheer willpower, and that's ok. We all go through this phase (I think? I did at least).

    So what should you do? Well, for me at least, what helped me grow a more mature attitude toward dating was manning up and getting rejected even when I was almost certain that was going to be the result.

    You know what really sucks? That fear of being rejected and worrying all the time. That's the worst. ACTUALLY getting rejected? That feels much better. You feel a bit sad, but you also feel like you made an effort this time and you're a little proud of yourself for it.

    Anyways, your choice on what to do. Maybe giving up is easier for you? I know a lot of people that have made a habit of it. It sticks.

    EsseeCambiata
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    Having a relationship is essentially the same as having a normal friendship that gradually gets more intense. If you cannot just enjoy each other's company the same way you would most of your other friends you are doing it wrong.

    The problem with your perspective, John, is there is a consistent othering of the lady in question to be fundamentally different from any other friend. Some are taking it to be because sexism, others due to lack of socialization- but it could very easily just be because you have a crush on her and are intimidated. None of us know whats going on behind your online mask. But it is important that you know and identify you are doing this and think hard why you are separating out this person in such a way.

    Ladies and Gents are essentially the same at the core level of being. We both want to have a nice time and be treated with honesty and respect... and usually we are all a bit nervous along the way! Lower down the pressure and just see where things go. You could have a lovely time, or not. And if not, if you can't just hang out and enjoy, then better to find out now than 9 months into a relationship.

    gjaustinEsseeCambiata
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Fact: people named John are sometimes brutally hurt at hockey games.
    tooth.gif

    Fact2: Great things can happen to people named John at hockey games.

    toews-cup-hawks.jpg?w=420&h=316

    You gotta go to the game to know what will happen. Maybe you'll hurt, maybe you'll have the most amazing 17 seconds ever.

    Jesus fuck man. You live somewhere in the SE since you are going to a Caps game. You have managed to strike up a friendship with one of the like 12 other hockey fans with in 300 miles. And you are upset that she might not be interesting in dating. I'd pay what 2 caps tickets cost just to have another friend to talk hockey with.

    remember:
    You miss 100% of the shots you don't take-The Great One

    tinwhiskers on
    Do the work, Call People, Have Conversations, Defeat Trump
    https://www.mobilize.us/peoplesaction/event/293197/
    EsseegjaustinUsagichr1sh4ll3ttb3CambiataSCREECH OF THE FARGAegeri
  • BillyIdleBillyIdle What does "katana" mean? It means "Japanese sword."Registered User regular
    You should just do it anyways as a learning experience. You said you have what, 3 female roommates? Maybe if things don't work out with this girl one of them will have a friend they can introduce you to who might be interesting in going on "real" dates.

    6d6ce4mkgdb2.png
    PSN: BillyIdle_
    gjaustin
  • john392john392 Registered User regular
    So....

    I talked at length about this with one of my female friends who I've known since freshman year on campus (both seniors now), we know each other really well. She gave me some honest insight and told me, at least to how I've described the situation going all the way back to when we went out to dinner in September, is that she most likely isn't "interested interested" based on her behavior and the fact that we really don't flirt that much. Which isn't a terrible thing, but I'd have to get anything "happening" totally out of my head pretty quick and keep it that way, or just get rejected if I feel like going down that path. It was a good talk and I thought more about it.

    So she was in class today, seemed a bit more aloof than usual, but who knows. Well we were talking afterwards and I cancelled. Told her since its next Tuesday, some stuff came up during the weekend that I have to home for and can't do a double trip from campus-home-campus-DC-campus in such a short time, and I just sold the tickets to one of my friends. She really didn't seem to care too much (NOT that I was hoping for a certain reaction at all) and just said she understood, not problem at all. We just kept talking and I walked her to class and wished each other a good Halloween.

    I really shouldn't of asked to begin with, it was too much for something that was just ostensibly friends, and I didn't realize that in the moment. The stress just kind of got to me and I didn't want it to carry over to the game and unintentionally act weird or nervous, which it probably would have if I just let it stew over the weekend. So that's that.

  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    That's disappointing, though I suppose a little understandable.

    Next time, try not to think about it so much and you'll do better.

    ArbitraryDescriptorEsseeCambiata
  • john392john392 Registered User regular
    gjaustin wrote: »
    That's disappointing, though I suppose a little understandable.

    Next time, try not to think about it so much and you'll do better.

    I don't think its that disappointing.
    I mean maybe things would have been nice, but I just didn't see it happening.

    I honestly think cancelling was in both of our best interests. The odds were just way too high that something bad or embarrassing would have happened. I just didn't want to deal with something like that again, when similar situations have yielded similar results from past experiences.

    Any thoughts on how to judge things better in the future? Or any advice or two cents in general? I continue to thank and appreciate what's been given, always open to more

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Or any advice or two cents in general?

    Don't waste people's time asking for advice if you're just going to ignore it and do whatever anyway.

    With Love and Courage
    WiseManTobesDhalphirEncGiggles_FunsworthUsagiLilnoobschr1sh4ll3ttb3AegeriSir Headless VII
  • alltheolivealltheolive Registered User regular
    I'd advise judging things less, not better.

    Some people need to think more carefully about social interactions, because they have profoundly inaccurate intuition or inappropriate responses, but you don't really seem to have that kind of problem. Thinking this much about a hockey game can only interfere with the best two outcomes: 1) going to a hockey game and 2) selling the tickets and doing other things with your brain and money.

    Essee
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Like, I just don't get it.

    Unanimously, everyone told you that making sure you were on the same page about it being a date and going to the hockey game were great ideas and you should go have fun. You said you thought about cancelling and expressed some toxicity about relationships (out of naivety and anxiety rather than out of malice), and people gave you a fair shake with the benefit of the doubt and told you to relax and go have fun. A few people even offered some very poignant food for thought.

    You just ignored all of that, cancelled and lied to the young lady (...and scalped the tickets, which I think is unethical, but that's just me).

    Why did you come to ask for advice?

    The Ender on
    With Love and Courage
    noir_bloodEssee
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    If there were a rule in place anywhere (on the forums or in life) that you had to take all advice given to you, the world would be a weirder place than it is. Think about some bad advice you've been given in the past that you knew was bad, and imagine you'd been forced to take it... or perhaps think of a situation where you WERE, for whatever reason, forced to take the bad advice and got the predicted terrible outcome. He talked to a real friend of his who presumably knows him better and decided to act on that person's advice instead. It's not the end of the world.

    We can't control whether or not people take the advice given here any more than they can control what kind of advice they get, and that's probably for the best. As good as we may all think we are at this, we don't have a direct window into every situation or a crystal ball or often-probably-required legal expertise.

    I think the better advice is "If you have something very specific in mind that you want to hear and can't deal with hearing differently, it's better not to ask it here because everyone will get annoyed with you and report you for being a jerk about it." We will tell you what we think, but that's all we can do. We cannot read minds or predict the future, and we are not interested in simply feeding back to you whatever it is you've decided you want to hear.

    Whenever someone makes a relationship or potential relationship thread here, they need to keep in mind the baggage that people bring with them. We have among our varied use base victims of sexism, sexual harassment, stalking, and rape (date or otherwise), and some are pretty open about it at this point. They come from all walks of life (or have friends who have found themselves victims of these things), and looking through that lens they will straight-up tell you if something you are saying sounds like you are treating the other person, consciously or otherwise, as someone who owes you a relationship. Sometimes they're wrong, because no one is omniscient here, but if people are getting that impression, even if they're wrong, you may want to look at how you frame your situation for others.

    Example: When you talked about how everyone around you is getting sex so easily and you aren't even when you put in all these resources, which aren't worth it if they won't lead to a date, you need to realize that to us you sound like you think you're talking about a vending machine and not a person. You may not be thinking about it that way, but that's what your words are saying, and much of the harshness you've received is in response to that.

    It sounds like this thread is done, so I'm closing it. I don't think there's much more to see here.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    Essee
This discussion has been closed.