It depends on what the penalties are. There are personal penalties like armor damage/xp loss/etc, and there are team penalties like having to respawn further back from the fight, thus making the death count on a strategic level rather than a personal level.
From what ZOS has said publically, they may be trying more of the team/faction based penalty. The warcamps you can put up in Cyrodiil will have a limited total number of respawns that can occur. So eventually your reinforcement/respawn chain runs out and you'll have to take a longer route to return to a fight.
But if ZOS is not planning at least one beta before release that's just "everyone is level 50, kill each other in the war zone" I'll be worried about how well they've setup their world pvp.
Yup, just have a team respawn node that moves further and further back every time a set amount of people are killed. No more zerg at that point.
Though you want to encourage siege too, and siege is going to have to probably require zerg. I guess you could circumvent that with a "siege buff" that increases damage for capturing stuff. Maybe make it dependent on catapults and shit or something.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
It depends on what the penalties are. There are personal penalties like armor damage/xp loss/etc, and there are team penalties like having to respawn further back from the fight, thus making the death count on a strategic level rather than a personal level.
From what ZOS has said publically, they may be trying more of the team/faction based penalty. The warcamps you can put up in Cyrodiil will have a limited total number of respawns that can occur. So eventually your reinforcement/respawn chain runs out and you'll have to take a longer route to return to a fight.
But if ZOS is not planning at least one beta before release that's just "everyone is level 50, kill each other in the war zone" I'll be worried about how well they've setup their world pvp.
I don't know. I think that the higher penalties for dying, the more people zergball. Gambling on doing something other than, "Hide in the mass of players that are zerg balling" becomes less appealing a prospect when your other option is to break off from the group, spend five minutes searching for combat, then die and waste all the time coming back."
There's neat things you can do with GPS inside a game, if you're not part of a large collection of people, you don't have the respawn tied to you. Maybe make people spawn on each other with a 30-60 second cooldown, but progressively become weaker as sort of a "demoralizing" debuff that stacks. Once you hit a certain level, you need to leave the objective for a few minutes for it to remove itself.
Obviously there should be things to counter this debuff other than "leaving the area".
I'm sure we could come up with neat ideas.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Yeah, I was mostly just giving a simple example. A similar idea would be to take the "area combat intentsity" metric and apply it to respawn locations/distances. If you die in a high combat area (lots of players in combat, lots of damage occurring, deaths, etc), you have to respawn from further away and/or have limited respawns nearby. But if you're in a low intensity area respawns can be local.
There might be that effect in the RvR ESO. You can port to a lot of the keeps I think I read, but only if they are not being attacked (whatever metric they use). So, if you're roaming away from the zerg, I think its less likely there will be a friendly keep you can respawn to. And if you're deep into enemy territory, well, that's just the risk associated with going there.
The RvR will be my deciding factor to buy this game.
The more severe the death penalty the more incentive to pre-made up and focus individual scrub pubbies to death.
As the death penalty increases the speed with which the pubbies say "fuck this lame shit" and quit increases.
A tiny fraction of the annoyed pubbies will pre-made, the rest are gone. Soon PvP dies out as there's not enough people to sustain it; the premies who only enjoy easy pickings quit next as the easy pickings dry up, then most of the remaining premies get bored and quit, eventually only an iron core of the hardest hardcore remain. They spend most of their time complaining bitterly on forums about how the devs screwed pvp over, emerging only occasionally to viciously sodomize the random hapless pub nub who attempts to queue for some pvp (he wont be back, these latecomers learn really fast not to).
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
I got a beta invite. Sonork informed me that he was patching the client and that it was quite large and would take a while to download. I am hesitant to install this for that reason. Anyone know how big the client is in total currently?
If I had a point it was merely that the pvp communities need to look inward to fix problems with pvp populations and attracting and retaining players. It's about 5% the devs fault that pvp always dries up and 95% the pvpers themselves for being fucking awful to one another.
Someone was in general chat on TOR last night trying to sell a TESO beta key for 1,000,000 credits.
Somewhere around the 3rd or 4th "Come on.... no one? Really?" I finally pointed out that no one would actually pay money to play TESO. The general chat erupted into mockery then.
I got a beta invite. Sonork informed me that he was patching the client and that it was quite large and would take a while to download. I am hesitant to install this for that reason. Anyone know how big the client is in total currently?
You'll shoot your eye out.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Open world PVP needs varied objectives and a HUUUUUGE map. That's why GW2's RvR was only fun for a while, because the zerg can respond WAY to quick to just about anything on the map.
I had the opposite problem with it, it took so long to get back to the fight after dying that I just couldn't be bothered with it. There's nothing fun about slowly jogging back across half the map, only to make a mistake and have to do it all again.
+1
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Someone was in general chat on TOR last night trying to sell a TESO beta key for 1,000,000 credits.
Somewhere around the 3rd or 4th "Come on.... no one? Really?" I finally pointed out that no one would actually pay money to play TESO. The general chat erupted into mockery then.
Wildstar's global advice chat channel skipped the key selling and basically started on the assumption of TESO sucks and mockery ensued. Lots of people got keys. Almost all were like "Nope".
I got a beta invite. Sonork informed me that he was patching the client and that it was quite large and would take a while to download. I am hesitant to install this for that reason. Anyone know how big the client is in total currently?
You'll shoot your eye out.
I am a MMO masochist. You know this. My curiosity must be sated.
Open world PVP needs varied objectives and a HUUUUUGE map. That's why GW2's RvR was only fun for a while, because the zerg can respond WAY to quick to just about anything on the map.
I had the opposite problem with it, it took so long to get back to the fight after dying that I just couldn't be bothered with it. There's nothing fun about slowly jogging back across half the map, only to make a mistake and have to do it all again.
It's one of those things that seems OK when you're in the group that isn't dying that much.
When you're in the group that's getting chewed up it makes you want to quit, you spend 20x more time running back to the fight than in the fight or worse. See my above story about how PvP dies out in mmos.
If I had a point it was merely that the pvp communities need to look inward to fix problems with pvp populations and attracting and retaining players. It's about 5% the devs fault that pvp always dries up and 95% the pvpers themselves for being fucking awful to one another.
They are never going to look inward though. It's up to the devs to accept that their userbase will be full of awful people, and to build something around that userbase which incentivizes not being awful, and prevents being awful to the best of their abilities.
I have no idea what that would look like though, as I never ever play pvp. But I've mentioned before how impressed I am with Guild Wars 2 for actually fostering cooperation between everyone and creating such a better pve atmosphere than others, like TOR.
I got a beta invite. Sonork informed me that he was patching the client and that it was quite large and would take a while to download. I am hesitant to install this for that reason. Anyone know how big the client is in total currently?
If I had a point it was merely that the pvp communities need to look inward to fix problems with pvp populations and attracting and retaining players. It's about 5% the devs fault that pvp always dries up and 95% the pvpers themselves for being fucking awful to one another.
They are never going to look inward though. It's up to the devs to accept that their userbase will be full of awful people, and to build something around that userbase which incentivizes not being awful, and prevents being awful to the best of their abilities.
I have no idea what that would look like though, as I never ever play pvp. But I've mentioned before how impressed I am with Guild Wars 2 for actually fostering cooperation between everyone and creating such a better pve atmosphere than others, like TOR.
Basically, most MMOs are single player games these days that you see people running by you in. A player has played all the way to max level, it took minimal skill and understanding and they've probably gotten little feedback from any place on how to improve their skills or character setup. Now they go into PvP, which usually functions completely differently, requires different gear and skill setup. This is the common issue we're all familiar with.
The second common issue goes back to how they got to max level. Pretty much alone. All of a sudden they are relying on other people to do well for themselves to win while at the same time not being a drain on the team. If they're good it's a complete contradiction to the rest of the game. You've been trained to believe that as long as you kill everything and live, you win. This is what get's taken out on the players who are still learning.
Basically, "winning" in modern MMOs means beating mobs of 2-3 at a time solo until your max level then radically swaps to a rock/paper/scissors type match up against intelligent enemies that also requires other players to do well for you to be successful. When you've been conditioned to have it go your way when you do well, it's really easy to understand why players rage at each other.
I got a beta invite. Sonork informed me that he was patching the client and that it was quite large and would take a while to download. I am hesitant to install this for that reason. Anyone know how big the client is in total currently?
I got a beta invite. Sonork informed me that he was patching the client and that it was quite large and would take a while to download. I am hesitant to install this for that reason. Anyone know how big the client is in total currently?
29 gigs total
Hrmm...
If you still have the client installed, it's only like 2.7Gig of patch to download.
Anyone who is actually enthusiastic about this game is free to get a mod to lock this thread so you can make one to your liking. I'm not going to be putting any effort in updating the thread.
Anyone who is actually enthusiastic about this game is free to get a mod to lock this thread so you can make one to your liking. I'm not going to be putting any effort in updating the thread.
I volunteer to make the reoccurring thread after this one, so don't worry about making the next one.
It's hard to point out stuff you like or don't like under such strict NDA.
Posts
Yup, just have a team respawn node that moves further and further back every time a set amount of people are killed. No more zerg at that point.
Though you want to encourage siege too, and siege is going to have to probably require zerg. I guess you could circumvent that with a "siege buff" that increases damage for capturing stuff. Maybe make it dependent on catapults and shit or something.
There's neat things you can do with GPS inside a game, if you're not part of a large collection of people, you don't have the respawn tied to you. Maybe make people spawn on each other with a 30-60 second cooldown, but progressively become weaker as sort of a "demoralizing" debuff that stacks. Once you hit a certain level, you need to leave the objective for a few minutes for it to remove itself.
Obviously there should be things to counter this debuff other than "leaving the area".
I'm sure we could come up with neat ideas.
There might be that effect in the RvR ESO. You can port to a lot of the keeps I think I read, but only if they are not being attacked (whatever metric they use). So, if you're roaming away from the zerg, I think its less likely there will be a friendly keep you can respawn to. And if you're deep into enemy territory, well, that's just the risk associated with going there.
The RvR will be my deciding factor to buy this game.
As the death penalty increases the speed with which the pubbies say "fuck this lame shit" and quit increases.
A tiny fraction of the annoyed pubbies will pre-made, the rest are gone. Soon PvP dies out as there's not enough people to sustain it; the premies who only enjoy easy pickings quit next as the easy pickings dry up, then most of the remaining premies get bored and quit, eventually only an iron core of the hardest hardcore remain. They spend most of their time complaining bitterly on forums about how the devs screwed pvp over, emerging only occasionally to viciously sodomize the random hapless pub nub who attempts to queue for some pvp (he wont be back, these latecomers learn really fast not to).
If I had a point it was merely that the pvp communities need to look inward to fix problems with pvp populations and attracting and retaining players. It's about 5% the devs fault that pvp always dries up and 95% the pvpers themselves for being fucking awful to one another.
Somewhere around the 3rd or 4th "Come on.... no one? Really?" I finally pointed out that no one would actually pay money to play TESO. The general chat erupted into mockery then.
You'll shoot your eye out.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Wildstar's global advice chat channel skipped the key selling and basically started on the assumption of TESO sucks and mockery ensued. Lots of people got keys. Almost all were like "Nope".
I am a MMO masochist. You know this. My curiosity must be sated.
It's one of those things that seems OK when you're in the group that isn't dying that much.
When you're in the group that's getting chewed up it makes you want to quit, you spend 20x more time running back to the fight than in the fight or worse. See my above story about how PvP dies out in mmos.
They are never going to look inward though. It's up to the devs to accept that their userbase will be full of awful people, and to build something around that userbase which incentivizes not being awful, and prevents being awful to the best of their abilities.
I have no idea what that would look like though, as I never ever play pvp. But I've mentioned before how impressed I am with Guild Wars 2 for actually fostering cooperation between everyone and creating such a better pve atmosphere than others, like TOR.
29 gigs total
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Basically, most MMOs are single player games these days that you see people running by you in. A player has played all the way to max level, it took minimal skill and understanding and they've probably gotten little feedback from any place on how to improve their skills or character setup. Now they go into PvP, which usually functions completely differently, requires different gear and skill setup. This is the common issue we're all familiar with.
The second common issue goes back to how they got to max level. Pretty much alone. All of a sudden they are relying on other people to do well for themselves to win while at the same time not being a drain on the team. If they're good it's a complete contradiction to the rest of the game. You've been trained to believe that as long as you kill everything and live, you win. This is what get's taken out on the players who are still learning.
Basically, "winning" in modern MMOs means beating mobs of 2-3 at a time solo until your max level then radically swaps to a rock/paper/scissors type match up against intelligent enemies that also requires other players to do well for you to be successful. When you've been conditioned to have it go your way when you do well, it's really easy to understand why players rage at each other.
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
Shiny Code: 3837
Hrmm...
If you still have the client installed, it's only like 2.7Gig of patch to download.
For your own Steam Signature visit https://alabasterslim.com/steam-signatures/
Guild Wars 2: Kendrik.5984
Not expecting much but it's better to know for sure.
Either it clicks for you and you love it, or you're like me and have your expectations be entirely accurate.
I volunteer to make the reoccurring thread after this one, so don't worry about making the next one.
It's hard to point out stuff you like or don't like under such strict NDA.