I'm almost certain that there is, since from the team I was in(and I voted for success, being a good guy) which failed, 2/3 remaining members are going on the mission, combined with Kaneski being truthful about my allegiance makes it almost certain that the spy from my group is in this group.
Whether anyone else than me believes me on this is another story.
I'm almost certain that there is, since from the team I was in(and I voted for success, being a good guy) which failed, 2/3 remaining members are going on the mission, combined with Kaneski being truthful about my allegiance makes it almost certain that the spy from my group is in this group.
Whether anyone else than me believes me on this is another story.
Kaneski being truthful about your allegiance tells us nothing of us.
What I'm trying to say is that regardless of the other people going on the mission, both Davoid and Sokpuppet going make it nearly certain that there is a spy on the mission.
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
edited January 2014
I didn't actually vote randomly, but I know it's going to be misinterpreted at this point.
I think we all suspect that there's a spy in the proposed team.
Do we? Why?
I'm 50/50 on both davoid and Mikey. You are a total unknown........
Most good folks at least have reasons to suspect me. In principal I am not necessarily opposed to the team, but I want to see a couple more votes before we send out mission 3. Success here puts us in strong position for a mission 4 win. No need to rush into this.
What I'm trying to say is that regardless of the other people going on the mission, both Davoid and Sokpuppet going make it nearly certain that there is a spy on the mission.
I understand. But let's play back what happened.
Kaneski gets your loyalty. He says "Interesting." Not "Oh, Rhan's OK." or "Rhan's a traitor." but "Interesting." Five hours later he says "Rhan's a goodie, so am I."
Then he gives us his spiel, toss out some accusations, and follows not with "Let's check out their allegiances!" but explicitly: let's not check them.
Another item of note is that Kaneski is the only person who has brought possible Merlin identities into the discussion. An evil player has obvious motives for trying to broach the subject.
So basically we have two confirmed minions.
Now the question is who the other two are.
Mikey, Jdarksun, Hedge, Kirindal, Davoid, Phyphor, myself, and Megamek are the remaining players. Not sure if Megamek is even worth discussing. Can we really send him on a mission when he has one post in the thread? Seems "legit"... although one possible interpretation is that he's vanilla town. A role would perhaps display more interest in the game?
I would also like to hear a detailed defense from Kirindal of each of his votes.
Quest 3...Vote 1? Or 2? I forget. Next time I run this I'll do a spreadsheet or something.
The team of Mikey CTS, Jdarksun, Sokpuppet, and Davoid is REJECTED.
The AYES: Davoid, Mikey CTS, Phyphor, JDarksun, Megamek. Total=5
The NAYS: Kaneski, Sokpuppet, Rhan9, Hedgethorn, Kirindal. Total=5
Tied votes count as rejections.
Team Leadership passes to @Hedgethorn. You must select four knights to go on a quest. You must also describe the quest you are sending these knights on.
Bam.
We shoot down whatever Hedge proposes.
Leadership passes to Jdarksun, he tosses up the team that we just rejected and I swap to AYE, 3rd mission succeeds, 4th mission succeeds.
Then explain: when I formed my team for Mission 2, why oh why would I send ALL 3 bad guys on it? It's not a serious question, btw, I'm just keen to find out exactly how devilishly double-crossing I am.
For the first mission, I agreed with the general assessment that there was nothing to be lost from letting the first team go through. Besides, I figured that if there was any spies on the team the would let it through and who was I to argue with a free step closer to victory? It didn't occur to me there was possible chicanery at play until it was mentioned afterwards.
Mission 2, I didn't like the idea of the tossing out the old team completely except for Rhan I think. That didn't seem like a logical way to suss out spies. So I voted no. I agreed with the assessment that Sokpuppet wasn't to be trusted just yet which is why I voted no again. A decision which seemed wise when 2 was a fail. I'll vote yay on a mission with Sok when my doubt on his loyalty can be cancelled with convincing evidence that he is probably not.
By implication, Kirindal is your 4th bad guy, AND I threw hedge under the bus as a fellow bad guy?
Because you're Broberon and Rhan is Morgana.
I'm Percival - I randomly hit 2 evil dudes in what I had reason to expect was 3 good guys.
Dude, no. No way.
If Rhan is morgana, then you immediately took a 50/50 chance of getting a bad guy. That's not a "reason to expect" 3 good guys. That's a 50/50.
If you excluded yourself and both your Merlin 'pings' from the first draft, then you are left with 7 people, 3 of whom are bad guys. The odds of a clean team out of that is... 4/35 - worse than a random dart-throw with 4 bad guys out of 10. Maybe at the time you didn't do the math, but even straight up person odds is still 3/7. That's still hardly a 'reason to expect'.
EDITED because I used the phrase 'simple person odds'. Whoops
I should probably put the team votes up in the OP as well. Anyone want to trawl through for the record for me? I'm willing to do it, but I'm very lazy and I just drank all the rest of my gin. All of it. So I might make a mistake.
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
I should probably put the team votes up in the OP as well. Anyone want to trawl through for the record for me? I'm willing to do it, but I'm very lazy and I just drank all the rest of my gin. All of it. So I might make a mistake.
From now on, all must refer to Hedgethorn as Captain Hedgethorn. He gets a special hat. This is a house rule, but it is official.
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
Knights of Camelot, great deeds of greatness await! I need some valiant and powerful knights to travel to France and bring me back a loaf of French bread. Guinevere is making a stew tonight, and it's just not the same without French bread.
I've also noticed that some of the Knights of Camelot are looking a bit flabby from inactivity. Because questing is an essential part of a healthy knight's regimen, I wish to send on a quest only those knights who haven't yet been on a quest and who have only been proposed one time or zero times.
For the Third Quest (Vote #2), I propose the following knights: Kirindal, Megamek, Mikey CTS, Phyphor.
By implication, Kirindal is your 4th bad guy, AND I threw hedge under the bus as a fellow bad guy?
Because you're Broberon and Rhan is Morgana.
I'm Percival - I randomly hit 2 evil dudes in what I had reason to expect was 3 good guys.
Dude, no. No way.
If Rhan is morgana, then you immediately took a 50/50 chance of getting a bad guy. That's not a "reason to expect" 3 good guys. That's a 50/50.
If you excluded yourself and both your Merlin 'pings' from the first draft, then you are left with 7 people, 3 of whom are bad guys. The odds of a clean team out of that is... 4/35 - worse than a random dart-throw with 4 bad guys out of 10. Maybe at the time you didn't do the math, but even straight up person odds is still 3/7. That's still hardly a 'reason to expect'.
EDITED because I used the phrase 'simple person odds'. Whoops
Fine. You caught me. I'm Merlin. My initial team selection was intended to be one evil dude and two good dudes. I hoped this would A) get rejected and B.) keep the assassin from suspecting my role.
EDIT: Actually, I approve of your plan Sok. Let's do it. Hedge's gets shot down, Jdark's gets approved. lets do it.
@MegaMek no it's not mate. You post, we accuse you of being a bad guy, you deny it and we keep playing . However, lack of expressed opinions either way makes it very hard for good guys to win. It's already super-hard with Broberon.
Sadly, I've never been worthy of the description 'dashing.'
Nevertheless, that's Captain Hedge, you backstabbing traitor.
And in the further finest traditions of Disney movies, the character who doesn't say 'captain' in the first place doesn't actually call the captain 'captain' without a heavy dose of sarcasm, "Captain".
Captain Hedge will be respected, or I'm changing your character to Merlin's layabout, unsuccessful brother Marlin, whose only power is he doesn't vote.
Captain Hedge will be respected, or I'm changing your character to Merlin's layabout, unsuccessful brother Marlin, whose only power is he doesn't vote.
EDIT: Actually, I approve of your plan Sok. Let's do it. Hedge's gets shot down, Jdark's gets approved. lets do it.
Excellent. Consensus! Either you're good and we're on the right track, or you're evil and trying to discredit the plan by sewing paranoia and confusion.
Ok, since defending my decisions with reason doesn't seem to work (surprise, internet), I'll go on rabid attack.
Proposition/TLDR: Sokpuppet is Broberon. Captain Hedgethorn and Davoid are bad guys. 4th unknown - Jdark was a weak accusation... Really not certain, because the others are a mixture of inconsistent votes and silence.
Game played to date
1. On his first team, Sokpuppet sends 3 people, including 2 loyals (me and Rhan), and Davoid. The selection seems random to everyone (except the Wizard), and is as good a place to start as any.
2. The mission gets approved, more likely than not due to bad guys voting 'yes' from the outside, including the Captain and Sokpuppet, despite both players declaring a combination of not wanting this to happen and not doing that ever. Davoid votes no, but later waves it as 'protocol'. Either way, he loses little.
3. The mission succeeds, as Davoid hides.
4. Sokpuppet suggests Captain Hedgethorn is sent, declaring complete trust. This is based on nothing whatsoever and serves as a second signal - the first being team 1 selection, though it only becomes apparent now.
5. Captain Hedgethorn agrees and further suggests Megamak and Kirindal. It is unlikely those guys are bad guys for double-fail reasons.
6. I explain the problem with 3+1. Few people agree. And those that voice their agreement do not change their voting anyway.
7. Nonetheless, at the time I suspect Rhan, because he voted yes on first mission, and Captain Hedgethorn for the suggestion/rapid acceptance between him and Sokpuppet.
8. I nominate a team that is sure to include the Captain and Rhan. As I have yet to explain my suspicion of Captain Hedgethorn, Rhan votes yes. I include Jdark and Kirindal at random, fishing for bad guys.
9. Since a lot of people wanted 3+1 (despite acknowledging the problem), the mission is rejected. I suspect that was the reason of a few votes there. Captain Hedgethorn votes no, but Broberon and Davoid vote yes. It is possible that I only caught 1 at the time - Captain Hedgethorn.
10. Davoid picks the team. To him, Sokpuppet looks either like a good guy who picked first team at random and then gave unjustified trust, or he received the hint that Sokpuppet is Broberon.
11. Phyphor was right on the money when he said a team with Broberon will never, ever double-fail. The team is approved by an overwhelming vote, because hey, 3+1 is fun! Once again, Sokpuppet
12. The mission single-fails, most likely by Davoid.
13. At this time, I still suspected Rhan as the most likely, single bad guy - he was on all 3 missions and voted yes each time. I lady of the lake him and find him good. This means the bad guy was either Davoid or Sokpuppet.
14. I delay the announcement to see the accusations. Naturally, with lots to gain, Sokpuppet wails on me and Rhan, and initially excludes himself and Davoid, but then clears both Davoid and Captain Hedgethorn.
15. I share my suspicions of Captain Hedgethorn and clear Rhan.
16. Captain Hedgethorn effectively throws the white flag.
17. Broberon realises Captain Hedgethorn is done and turns on him, burning him down.
18. Mikey suggests a team that contains Sokpuppet and Davoid. As long as this team goes ahead at some point, the bad guys will almost certainly win the game.
19. Sokpuppet rejects the mission to see the results. Naturally, since both me and Rhan are good guys, we will reject the mission that contains both Davoid and Sokpuppet - mission 2 results speak for themselves. Further, since Jdark is up for team selection after the burned Captain Hedgethorn; and Jdark has more or less vocally agreed with Sokpuppet, it is a safe rejection.
20. Profit.
21. Only chance of stopping this - Lady of the Lake. After Sok burned Captain Hedgethorn, the idea that we're keeping it within the bad guys circle can only survive 1 more mission, because I hope like hell Rhan won't give it to Captain Hedge
EDIT: Actually, I approve of your plan Sok. Let's do it. Hedge's gets shot down, Jdark's gets approved. lets do it.
Excellent. Consensus! Either you're good and we're on the right track, or you're evil and trying to discredit the plan by sewing paranoia and confusion.
Either way, we're on the right track.
Again, no dude - impossible. I'll reload those eyes for you to roll again.
If I'm good, then so is Rhan. That means you have to (at least) concede Davoid is evil and we're not on the right track. You can't ever have it both ways - may I suggest you stick to your guns on the whole "Kaneski is evil" thing.
I'm Broberon... pretending to be Percival... pretending to pretend not to be Merlin.
Got it.
Just to be crystal clear on my position of the moment:
I will vote aye for any team which lacks Kaneski, Rhan, Captain Hedgethorn, or Kirindal.
hmmmm. It's weird that however you slice this, someone is driving the bus back and forth over Captain Hedgethorn.
One question, @Kaneski. If it were purely a choice between these two options, would you be more likely to believe that I'm Broberon or Mordred?
14. I delay the announcement to see the accusations. Naturally, with lots to gain, Sokpuppet wails on me and Rhan, and initially excludes himself and Davoid, but then clears both Davoid and Captain Hedgethorn.
And I thought retcons were limited to comic books!
Posts
Whether anyone else than me believes me on this is another story.
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I'm 50/50 on both davoid and Mikey. You are a total unknown........
Most good folks at least have reasons to suspect me. In principal I am not necessarily opposed to the team, but I want to see a couple more votes before we send out mission 3. Success here puts us in strong position for a mission 4 win. No need to rush into this.
Kaneski gets your loyalty. He says "Interesting." Not "Oh, Rhan's OK." or "Rhan's a traitor." but "Interesting."
Five hours later he says "Rhan's a goodie, so am I."
Then he gives us his spiel, toss out some accusations, and follows not with "Let's check out their allegiances!" but explicitly: let's not check them.
That's highly suspect.
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So basically we have two confirmed minions.
Now the question is who the other two are.
Mikey, Jdarksun, Hedge, Kirindal, Davoid, Phyphor, myself, and Megamek are the remaining players. Not sure if Megamek is even worth discussing. Can we really send him on a mission when he has one post in the thread? Seems "legit"... although one possible interpretation is that he's vanilla town. A role would perhaps display more interest in the game?
I would also like to hear a detailed defense from Kirindal of each of his votes.
The team of Mikey CTS, Jdarksun, Sokpuppet, and Davoid is REJECTED.
The AYES: Davoid, Mikey CTS, Phyphor, JDarksun, Megamek. Total=5
The NAYS: Kaneski, Sokpuppet, Rhan9, Hedgethorn, Kirindal. Total=5
Tied votes count as rejections.
Team Leadership passes to @Hedgethorn. You must select four knights to go on a quest. You must also describe the quest you are sending these knights on.
We shoot down whatever Hedge proposes.
Leadership passes to Jdarksun, he tosses up the team that we just rejected and I swap to AYE, 3rd mission succeeds, 4th mission succeeds.
GG.
Because you're Broberon and Rhan is Morgana.
I'm Percival - I randomly hit 2 evil dudes in what I had reason to expect was 3 good guys.
For the first mission, I agreed with the general assessment that there was nothing to be lost from letting the first team go through. Besides, I figured that if there was any spies on the team the would let it through and who was I to argue with a free step closer to victory? It didn't occur to me there was possible chicanery at play until it was mentioned afterwards.
Mission 2, I didn't like the idea of the tossing out the old team completely except for Rhan I think. That didn't seem like a logical way to suss out spies. So I voted no. I agreed with the assessment that Sokpuppet wasn't to be trusted just yet which is why I voted no again. A decision which seemed wise when 2 was a fail. I'll vote yay on a mission with Sok when my doubt on his loyalty can be cancelled with convincing evidence that he is probably not.
Dude, no. No way.
If Rhan is morgana, then you immediately took a 50/50 chance of getting a bad guy. That's not a "reason to expect" 3 good guys. That's a 50/50.
If you excluded yourself and both your Merlin 'pings' from the first draft, then you are left with 7 people, 3 of whom are bad guys. The odds of a clean team out of that is... 4/35 - worse than a random dart-throw with 4 bad guys out of 10. Maybe at the time you didn't do the math, but even straight up person odds is still 3/7. That's still hardly a 'reason to expect'.
EDITED because I used the phrase 'simple person odds'. Whoops
Here you go, Phobos:
I've also noticed that some of the Knights of Camelot are looking a bit flabby from inactivity. Because questing is an essential part of a healthy knight's regimen, I wish to send on a quest only those knights who haven't yet been on a quest and who have only been proposed one time or zero times.
For the Third Quest (Vote #2), I propose the following knights: Kirindal, Megamek, Mikey CTS, Phyphor.
Fine. You caught me. I'm Merlin. My initial team selection was intended to be one evil dude and two good dudes. I hoped this would A) get rejected and B.) keep the assassin from suspecting my role.
*eyeroll*
@MegaMek no it's not mate. You post, we accuse you of being a bad guy, you deny it and we keep playing
I have truly impressive powers.
Yeah, but in the finest traditions of Disney movies, that only works if the dashing captain him/herself insists on the title.
Nevertheless, that's Captain Hedge, you backstabbing traitor.
And in the further finest traditions of Disney movies, the character who doesn't say 'captain' in the first place doesn't actually call the captain 'captain' without a heavy dose of sarcasm, "Captain".
...
Dammit. Yes ma'am, I'll be good.
Excellent. Consensus! Either you're good and we're on the right track, or you're evil and trying to discredit the plan by sewing paranoia and confusion.
Either way, we're on the right track.
Proposition/TLDR: Sokpuppet is Broberon. Captain Hedgethorn and Davoid are bad guys. 4th unknown - Jdark was a weak accusation... Really not certain, because the others are a mixture of inconsistent votes and silence.
Game played to date
1. On his first team, Sokpuppet sends 3 people, including 2 loyals (me and Rhan), and Davoid. The selection seems random to everyone (except the Wizard), and is as good a place to start as any.
2. The mission gets approved, more likely than not due to bad guys voting 'yes' from the outside, including the Captain and Sokpuppet, despite both players declaring a combination of not wanting this to happen and not doing that ever. Davoid votes no, but later waves it as 'protocol'. Either way, he loses little.
3. The mission succeeds, as Davoid hides.
4. Sokpuppet suggests Captain Hedgethorn is sent, declaring complete trust. This is based on nothing whatsoever and serves as a second signal - the first being team 1 selection, though it only becomes apparent now.
5. Captain Hedgethorn agrees and further suggests Megamak and Kirindal. It is unlikely those guys are bad guys for double-fail reasons.
6. I explain the problem with 3+1. Few people agree. And those that voice their agreement do not change their voting anyway.
7. Nonetheless, at the time I suspect Rhan, because he voted yes on first mission, and Captain Hedgethorn for the suggestion/rapid acceptance between him and Sokpuppet.
8. I nominate a team that is sure to include the Captain and Rhan. As I have yet to explain my suspicion of Captain Hedgethorn, Rhan votes yes. I include Jdark and Kirindal at random, fishing for bad guys.
9. Since a lot of people wanted 3+1 (despite acknowledging the problem), the mission is rejected. I suspect that was the reason of a few votes there. Captain Hedgethorn votes no, but Broberon and Davoid vote yes. It is possible that I only caught 1 at the time - Captain Hedgethorn.
10. Davoid picks the team. To him, Sokpuppet looks either like a good guy who picked first team at random and then gave unjustified trust, or he received the hint that Sokpuppet is Broberon.
11. Phyphor was right on the money when he said a team with Broberon will never, ever double-fail. The team is approved by an overwhelming vote, because hey, 3+1 is fun! Once again, Sokpuppet
12. The mission single-fails, most likely by Davoid.
13. At this time, I still suspected Rhan as the most likely, single bad guy - he was on all 3 missions and voted yes each time. I lady of the lake him and find him good. This means the bad guy was either Davoid or Sokpuppet.
14. I delay the announcement to see the accusations. Naturally, with lots to gain, Sokpuppet wails on me and Rhan, and initially excludes himself and Davoid, but then clears both Davoid and Captain Hedgethorn.
15. I share my suspicions of Captain Hedgethorn and clear Rhan.
16. Captain Hedgethorn effectively throws the white flag.
17. Broberon realises Captain Hedgethorn is done and turns on him, burning him down.
18. Mikey suggests a team that contains Sokpuppet and Davoid. As long as this team goes ahead at some point, the bad guys will almost certainly win the game.
19. Sokpuppet rejects the mission to see the results. Naturally, since both me and Rhan are good guys, we will reject the mission that contains both Davoid and Sokpuppet - mission 2 results speak for themselves. Further, since Jdark is up for team selection after the burned Captain Hedgethorn; and Jdark has more or less vocally agreed with Sokpuppet, it is a safe rejection.
20. Profit.
21. Only chance of stopping this - Lady of the Lake. After Sok burned Captain Hedgethorn, the idea that we're keeping it within the bad guys circle can only survive 1 more mission, because I hope like hell Rhan won't give it to Captain Hedge
Again, no dude - impossible. I'll reload those eyes for you to roll again.
If I'm good, then so is Rhan. That means you have to (at least) concede Davoid is evil and we're not on the right track. You can't ever have it both ways - may I suggest you stick to your guns on the whole "Kaneski is evil" thing.
Got it.
Just to be crystal clear on my position of the moment:
I will vote aye for any team which lacks Kaneski, Rhan, Captain Hedgethorn, or Kirindal.
hmmmm. It's weird that however you slice this, someone is driving the bus back and forth over Captain Hedgethorn.
One question, @Kaneski. If it were purely a choice between these two options, would you be more likely to believe that I'm Broberon or Mordred?
And you? Broberon. Though I might revise that to a known baddie if we somehow prove Davoid good.
Edit: or you know... To mordred, I guess if you have to limit it to that choice.
I don't trust either Kaneski or Sokpuppet at this point, and I wouldn't vote for a team with either of them on it.
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