No coup needed, my apologies. I may have mentioned I have a larvae now, and the last two days have been very trying. Activate Lazar/Sakulag. Move 2 Cruisers from Home, and 1 Warsun from Mec Rex. Bring 2 GF from Mec Rex. Invade the Teenage Mutant held planet, bombarding with War Sun.
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Iron WeaselDillon!You son of a bitch!Registered Userregular
edited January 2014
I believe the Hacan call their young ‘cubs’. The Norr have larvae.
The technical term for Xxcha young is “scum-drops”.
The More You Know.jpeg
Iron Weasel on
Currently Playing:
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
There are 3 factions I don't want to win, and the N'orr isn't one of them so I have no problem giving them the victory. Plus I got to wipe the rat infestation from the galaxy and survive multiple betrayals, so overall I'm satisfied.
So of the two choices I was given, I Reveal Imperium Rex.
It's been fun guys!
Thanks to MrBlarney for all the logistical support, and players sticking with it no matter how hopeless it got.
It got to be a real organizational mess trying to juggle Vassal and Photoshop. Now that I've actually figured out (most of) the Vassal module, should be a lot easier to run it entirely in that.
Thoughts:
I feel bad 2 new guys got stuck with Saar and Xxcha, two of the weakest races in the game (bottom 4 I'd say). Luckily they got to fight each other instead of stronger races! Both get really crappy homeworlds. The Saar's abilities look real fun and sneaky on paper, but in practice they hardly ever use them, if ever. Starting XRD drives is the only thing they have going for them.Xxcha get to use the diplomacy special maybe once or twice a game, and after that it's just an inferior version of N'orr's ability. Xxcha are only even remotely competitive if you're using leaders since they get two diplomats, by far the best type. Unfortunately diplomats are kind of broken and don't make the game very fun
I feel even worse for there being a Muaat player who gets hit with universal Warsuns the very first round. Me and Blarney were discussing a custom trimmer action/political card deck. I would remove that card from the game since it screws up Muaat, and doesn't change much aside from the rich getting richer with warsuns being so cost efficient if you can afford them.
No clue why N'orr are ranked so low on BGG. Their ability is rock solid.
Hacan: they don't always win, but I have yet to see a game where they aren't a top contender for doing so. Resources win games, and their trade treaties are killer. They almost become twice as powerful if you use racial techs. with Production Centers being hands down the best racial tech in the game.
Surprised Saar didn't go for Gravity Drives. It's an insane game-breaking tech if your systems border wormholes.
Techs. I much prefer the new tech tree being used in Game 6 to the base tree. With the base, all of the most useful techs are in the first two tiers and all the races start with half of them. New tree mostly does a good job of ordering them by usefulness. Don't think I'll be using the base tech tree again.
From all the games I've seen, they mostly seem to be decided by resources (homeworld quality + neighboring planets) and race. The new tech tree actually balanced a lot of races out. Yssaril are no longer leagues ahead of everyone else, and L1z1x have been reined in by not starting with five hundred techs anymore. Though it didn't touch Hacan for some reason.
Other factors are arranging terrain to cut yourself off from one neighbor, and lucking out that you don't start next to an aggressive early rush race. One constant with performance? Having a coreward red system next to your home planet seems to almost always cripple your competitive chance. Good way to screw a player if you're feeling evil during map setup.
Politics...they've always been a tricky weak spot in the game. There's almost never a political card that's worth more holding on to than burning it for a trade good. Even if it's a helpful law you're not guaranteed to pass it. Nominating another player to propose a law is almost a weapon since you're forcing them to discard a trade good. The third expansion tries to add stuff like representatives to politics, but woo boy does it slow things down. The trouble is it never addresses the problem of the laws themselves being mostly weak. Maybe we'll see a trimmed deck fix that some day.
Action cards. Trimming those too. There's too large of a gap between the worthless ones and game-winning ones. In particular I'm not fond of Flank Speed which is impossible to plan against (+1 movement is so powerful that an entire primary strategy card is dedicated to it, and even that requires a turn of prep and warning). Another prevents building on a space dock for whole round, which on the first round would take anyone out of the game. On the worthless end, I feel there are too many dealing exclusively with warsuns, which are rare most games. We have a spreadsheet of the cards we've marked for possibly keeping or ditching if anyone wants to take a look at it.
Secret Objectives. I think I'm at the point where I'd be comfortable leaving them out entirely. I feel they don't really add anything to the game except a huge luck swing. The problem is that they're not even close to being created equal. "Control all the wormholes" is a huge crapshoot depending on map setup (impossible if Creuss Ghosts are in the game). "Conquer a home system" if you're using the Gen. Synthesis tech as written is like getting into a squirt gun fight with gremlins. "Hold Mecatol Rex with 6 ground forces" vs "Hold Mecatold Rex with 5 dreadnauts"? Too many games become a contest between just the players who manage to draw realistic SOs.
Not sure what to think of the Red Tape rule being used in Game 6.
I didn't feel the Xxcha abilities were week at all. The diplomacy one saved my system a couple times, the switch the laws one was helpful, and the racial tech was powerful (and a first-combat-round defense bonus). It's nothing that comes out and wows you, but added together it's not bad. All that does drain SA though, but I seemed to do just fine with only 2-3 FS, so it was fine. The Saar did seem a bit underpowered though.
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Iron WeaselDillon!You son of a bitch!Registered Userregular
I've played a fair bit of TI (including 20 games here), so not sure I would count myself a new guy
Anyway, I made the same error I did in my last game, which is that I rushed my SO and ended up over extended.
Oh, and I didn't go for Grav Drives because I didn't bother reading the tech tree so I have no idea what they do.
Currently Playing:
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
At this stage I don't think my frustration with how the game went is a secret, but I really do appreciate the chance to try the game out. Thanks for running, MrBody. Sorry to have gotten grumpy so early and so often.
I claim some share of the victory, because I was still getting PM updates up to the very end, even though I had stopped 'contributing' to strategy discussions, uh, months ago.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
Big turning point was Hacan picked control 10 worlds outside of home world obective, not sure if the other was imperium rex or any better but it gave me 2 points and didn't help them out. Also getting an easy SO, MrBody you mentioned how they aren't all equal. Was everyone else sitting on impossible ones?
Xxcha- Focused 2 VP - I control at least 4 planets with the same technology specialty. (not bad, depends entirely on map though)
Naalu- Forcecful 2VP - I control Mecatol Rex. I have a space dock there and at least 4 dreadnauts in the system. (not impossible, but with the MR secret objectives you're competing with everyone else and only one is going to be able to fulfill it. And which would rather have, 6 ground forces or 4 dreadnauts?)
N'orr -Threatening 2 VP - I control systems adjacent to 2 different players' home systems. I control a system if I have at least one non-fighter ship there and control all planets in the system. Not to take away from Segatai, who is a very good player in every game I've seen (in fact I predicted him to win in the first round!), but I feel this is the easiest SO in the game. Another boon was one of your neighbor's adjacent systems being empty.
Saar- Technocrat (2VP) - I control at least 6 planets with a tech specialty. (very likely to be much easier than controlling 4 of the same color)
Hacan -Keeper of Gates (2VP) - I have at least 1 non-fighter ship in each system containing a wormhole. (depends entirely on map, would have been a gimme for Saar this game. Is 100% impossible if the Ghosts race is in the game.)
Here's one someone chose not to take: Merciless (2VP) - This turn, I took control of a neighbor's planet containing his last space dock. My neighbor is the player seated directly to my left or right.
So you have to take someone's homeworld AND every other space dock planet. It's just flat out harder than "Invade an enemy's homeworld".
I didn't feel the Xxcha abilities were week at all. The diplomacy one saved my system a couple times, the switch the laws one was helpful, and the racial tech was powerful (and a first-combat-round defense bonus). It's nothing that comes out and wows you, but added together it's not bad. All that does drain SA though, but I seemed to do just fine with only 2-3 FS, so it was fine. The Saar did seem a bit underpowered though.
Getting away with 2-3 FS all game probably wouldn't have been possible without warsuns first round.
It's not so much the Xxcha abilities by themselves being weak, but that they don't make up for their weak homeworld. Usually when you have a homeworld that weak, it's to compensate for AMAZING racial abilities like Hacan or Yssaril. The difference between a 2 and 4 resource homeworld is ginormous.
I didn't feel the Xxcha abilities were week at all. The diplomacy one saved my system a couple times, the switch the laws one was helpful, and the racial tech was powerful (and a first-combat-round defense bonus). It's nothing that comes out and wows you, but added together it's not bad. All that does drain SA though, but I seemed to do just fine with only 2-3 FS, so it was fine. The Saar did seem a bit underpowered though.
Getting away with 2-3 FS all game probably wouldn't have been possible without warsuns first round.
It's not so much the Xxcha abilities by themselves being weak, but that they don't make up for their weak homeworld. Usually when you have a homeworld that weak, it's to compensate for AMAZING racial abilities like Hacan or Yssaril. The difference between a 2 and 4 resource homeworld is ginormous.
I don't think the Hacan homeworld is as weak as it seems at first glance. The only triple planet homesystem provides a useful opportunity: you can build all three of your Space Docks here, and get 3 ticks of Sarween Tools every time you build or use the Production SC ability. The Hacan are fortunate to have a Scientist already int he system to reduce the material investment by half. The build capacity is also through the roof. There are certainly drawbacks to this, as you may want a forward production facility, although Integrated Economy can help with this.
Of course this is often impractical based on board layout as a forward dock can be very important, and with some SOs you may be forced to build a dock at MR. In those cases I agree the Hacan system is weak and their abilities have to make up for it.
Remember that this game started with I think all trades being approved and no favors/bribes asked for, which kinda negates hacan some what. If they started as the only ones trading, they start out faster
Yeah I've been surprised how...nice trading has been in the games here. I would be the most cutthroat, favor-demanding S.O.B if I got Trade first round.
The dust has settled. After long millennium, the imperial throne room on Mecatol Rex has reconvened once more to reflect the political hierarchy of the galaxy.
Posts
cmon, guys. We can finish first and beat those slugs in game 6! (especially that Yssaril dweeb)
The technical term for Xxcha young is “scum-drops”.
The More You Know.jpeg
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
geth roll 3d10t3 for Warsun bombardment
2 Hacan GFs land
1 Xxcha GF defending
geth roll 15d10t8 for Hacan
geth roll 15d10t8 for Xxcha
@lockeout
Wait to see if Imperium Rex is drawn.
So of the two choices I was given, I Reveal Imperium Rex.
It's been fun guys!
I amazed how much you guys clung to the back and forth fight, thought for sure I was going to get ganged up on
After all the bitter, pointless back-and-forth warfare, I feel like @Lockeout and I need to to hug it out.
Thanks to MrBody for running this beast!
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
Sardakk N'orr declared new emperors of galaxy. Welcome your new overlords.
Final Map
Special victory point tier prize coming soon!
It got to be a real organizational mess trying to juggle Vassal and Photoshop. Now that I've actually figured out (most of) the Vassal module, should be a lot easier to run it entirely in that.
Thoughts:
I feel even worse for there being a Muaat player who gets hit with universal Warsuns the very first round. Me and Blarney were discussing a custom trimmer action/political card deck. I would remove that card from the game since it screws up Muaat, and doesn't change much aside from the rich getting richer with warsuns being so cost efficient if you can afford them.
No clue why N'orr are ranked so low on BGG. Their ability is rock solid.
Hacan: they don't always win, but I have yet to see a game where they aren't a top contender for doing so. Resources win games, and their trade treaties are killer. They almost become twice as powerful if you use racial techs. with Production Centers being hands down the best racial tech in the game.
Surprised Saar didn't go for Gravity Drives. It's an insane game-breaking tech if your systems border wormholes.
Techs. I much prefer the new tech tree being used in Game 6 to the base tree. With the base, all of the most useful techs are in the first two tiers and all the races start with half of them. New tree mostly does a good job of ordering them by usefulness. Don't think I'll be using the base tech tree again.
From all the games I've seen, they mostly seem to be decided by resources (homeworld quality + neighboring planets) and race. The new tech tree actually balanced a lot of races out. Yssaril are no longer leagues ahead of everyone else, and L1z1x have been reined in by not starting with five hundred techs anymore. Though it didn't touch Hacan for some reason.
Other factors are arranging terrain to cut yourself off from one neighbor, and lucking out that you don't start next to an aggressive early rush race. One constant with performance? Having a coreward red system next to your home planet seems to almost always cripple your competitive chance. Good way to screw a player if you're feeling evil during map setup.
Politics...they've always been a tricky weak spot in the game. There's almost never a political card that's worth more holding on to than burning it for a trade good. Even if it's a helpful law you're not guaranteed to pass it. Nominating another player to propose a law is almost a weapon since you're forcing them to discard a trade good. The third expansion tries to add stuff like representatives to politics, but woo boy does it slow things down. The trouble is it never addresses the problem of the laws themselves being mostly weak. Maybe we'll see a trimmed deck fix that some day.
Action cards. Trimming those too. There's too large of a gap between the worthless ones and game-winning ones. In particular I'm not fond of Flank Speed which is impossible to plan against (+1 movement is so powerful that an entire primary strategy card is dedicated to it, and even that requires a turn of prep and warning). Another prevents building on a space dock for whole round, which on the first round would take anyone out of the game. On the worthless end, I feel there are too many dealing exclusively with warsuns, which are rare most games. We have a spreadsheet of the cards we've marked for possibly keeping or ditching if anyone wants to take a look at it.
Secret Objectives. I think I'm at the point where I'd be comfortable leaving them out entirely. I feel they don't really add anything to the game except a huge luck swing. The problem is that they're not even close to being created equal. "Control all the wormholes" is a huge crapshoot depending on map setup (impossible if Creuss Ghosts are in the game). "Conquer a home system" if you're using the Gen. Synthesis tech as written is like getting into a squirt gun fight with gremlins. "Hold Mecatol Rex with 6 ground forces" vs "Hold Mecatold Rex with 5 dreadnauts"? Too many games become a contest between just the players who manage to draw realistic SOs.
Not sure what to think of the Red Tape rule being used in Game 6.
Anyway, I made the same error I did in my last game, which is that I rushed my SO and ended up over extended.
Oh, and I didn't go for Grav Drives because I didn't bother reading the tech tree so I have no idea what they do.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
Xxcha- Focused 2 VP - I control at least 4 planets with the same technology specialty. (not bad, depends entirely on map though)
Naalu- Forcecful 2VP - I control Mecatol Rex. I have a space dock there and at least 4 dreadnauts in the system. (not impossible, but with the MR secret objectives you're competing with everyone else and only one is going to be able to fulfill it. And which would rather have, 6 ground forces or 4 dreadnauts?)
N'orr -Threatening 2 VP - I control systems adjacent to 2 different players' home systems. I control a system if I have at least one non-fighter ship there and control all planets in the system. Not to take away from Segatai, who is a very good player in every game I've seen (in fact I predicted him to win in the first round!), but I feel this is the easiest SO in the game. Another boon was one of your neighbor's adjacent systems being empty.
Saar- Technocrat (2VP) - I control at least 6 planets with a tech specialty. (very likely to be much easier than controlling 4 of the same color)
Hacan -Keeper of Gates (2VP) - I have at least 1 non-fighter ship in each system containing a wormhole. (depends entirely on map, would have been a gimme for Saar this game. Is 100% impossible if the Ghosts race is in the game.)
Here's one someone chose not to take: Merciless (2VP) - This turn, I took control of a neighbor's planet containing his last space dock. My neighbor is the player seated directly to my left or right.
So you have to take someone's homeworld AND every other space dock planet. It's just flat out harder than "Invade an enemy's homeworld".
Getting away with 2-3 FS all game probably wouldn't have been possible without warsuns first round.
It's not so much the Xxcha abilities by themselves being weak, but that they don't make up for their weak homeworld. Usually when you have a homeworld that weak, it's to compensate for AMAZING racial abilities like Hacan or Yssaril. The difference between a 2 and 4 resource homeworld is ginormous.
I don't think the Hacan homeworld is as weak as it seems at first glance. The only triple planet homesystem provides a useful opportunity: you can build all three of your Space Docks here, and get 3 ticks of Sarween Tools every time you build or use the Production SC ability. The Hacan are fortunate to have a Scientist already int he system to reduce the material investment by half. The build capacity is also through the roof. There are certainly drawbacks to this, as you may want a forward production facility, although Integrated Economy can help with this.
Of course this is often impractical based on board layout as a forward dock can be very important, and with some SOs you may be forced to build a dock at MR. In those cases I agree the Hacan system is weak and their abilities have to make up for it.
Thanks for hosting again MrB
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
I'm glad the Hacan finished as high as they did. It would have been pretty lame putting their face on a feline's body.
Good game all!
Thanks for hosting again MrB!
To all players, a final...
HISSSSSS!!!
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1