There's literally no damn difference between relist undercutting by 1c and by 5g, except the latter screws over everybody selling.
There is a difference: 1c undercut is never worth buying and relisting, whereas 5g undercut could be. The 5g undercut therefore has a higher chance to sell, which means that the seller gets their gold and the buyer gets the joy of trying to be the next great AH baron.
Or maybe the buyer is just a regular joe who got an item for 5g cheaper than otherwise, in which case the seller still gets their gold and the buyer benefits by having 5g more to spend on cyber prostitutes in Goldshire.
Maybe I'm crazy here, but I actually support undercutting by 1c. Why? Because it keeps the market value stable. Here's an example.
Let's say Supreme Lord Dibby III Esquire puts up a Hamburger Phone for 1000g.
Then, Joeblow comes along and lists a Hamburger Phone for 800g.
Then, Dave McChucklefuck lists a Hamburger Phone for 600g.
And then someone else lists one for 500g.
With only 3 undercuts, the market value for said item has dropped 50%. If instead it was just 1c undercuts, the price for Hamburger Phones would be 999g, 99s, 97c. Everyone wins!
And I mean, sure, you could just buy out the lower priced Hamburger Phones and relist them for 1000g. But maybe the demand for Hamburger Phones is low on your server. Maybe they just won't move. In which case, you just spent 1900 gold buying out these other auctions only to have no payoff.
It's a hypothetical example, sure, but it's happened to me all too often. My server in particular is really weird when it comes to the AH, so... I dunno.
But if the Hamburger Phones aren't selling, it makes much more sense to undercut by a decent amount instead of 1c. Maybe 999,99,97 is just too much for Hamburger Phones and everyone knows it. Oh, a Hamburger Phone for 799? Well that's much more reasonable.
edit: Basically, instead of the situation being that the undercutters are somehow ripping off the most expensive seller, the situation is instead that the most expensive seller is trying to rip off potential buyers. Undercutting by 1c isn't meaningful, so that guy is also trying to rip off the buyers while inconveniencing the guy who listed first.
This guy gets it ^
If you're being undercut for 5, 10, 50 gold, that means you are basically trying to rip off your buyer and are bitching because the other venders don't want to get all OPEC with you and rip them off together.
Honestly I think the auction house should force a minimum size undercut to allow you to undercut, with total pricing freedom down to the copper once your price is below that minimum threshhold. This would encourage prices to fall to a realistic level (vice an artificial inflated level which is overall bad for the cyber economy just as it is for a real economy) while also saying a merry fuck you to the 1 cc undercut.
Honestly I think the auction house should force a minimum size undercut to allow you to undercut, with total pricing freedom down to the copper once your price is below that minimum threshhold. This would encourage prices to fall to a realistic level (vice an artificial inflated level which is overall bad for the cyber economy just as it is for a real economy) while also saying a merry fuck you to the 1 cc undercut.
Everything about how you earn gold in the game via not the AH is balanced against earning money on the AH. Doing this would fuck the game up.
Honestly, I don't know how things are right now, but when I was first getting my addons, Auctionator or AuctionLite was recommended because by that time Auctioneer was getting a bit too bloated for its own good.
Maybe I'm crazy here, but I actually support undercutting by 1c. Why? Because it keeps the market value stable. Here's an example.
Let's say Supreme Lord Dibby III Esquire puts up a Hamburger Phone for 1000g.
Then, Joeblow comes along and lists a Hamburger Phone for 800g.
Then, Dave McChucklefuck lists a Hamburger Phone for 600g.
And then someone else lists one for 500g.
With only 3 undercuts, the market value for said item has dropped 50%. If instead it was just 1c undercuts, the price for Hamburger Phones would be 999g, 99s, 97c. Everyone wins!
And I mean, sure, you could just buy out the lower priced Hamburger Phones and relist them for 1000g. But maybe the demand for Hamburger Phones is low on your server. Maybe they just won't move. In which case, you just spent 1900 gold buying out these other auctions only to have no payoff.
It's a hypothetical example, sure, but it's happened to me all too often. My server in particular is really weird when it comes to the AH, so... I dunno.
This is actually how markets work.
The bottom price floor of the item is its actual value.
People get upset with undercutting because it interferes with artificially high prices and they prefer an anti-competitive non-market sales arena.
Or, people could get upset with Dave McChucklefuck if Hamburger Phones cost 800g just to craft.
1c undercutting is pretty fucking obnoxious when were talking about things going for 100 or more gold. It's pretty damn insignificant and makes me just buy from the guy that was undercut. Don't want to drive the price down too far on gems selling for 150+ gold (that's what I remember reds being for a bit during Cataclysm), well it won't hurt the market really if people are undercutting by 10s or even just by 1g; especially, if the listing is being done during peak hours. Likewise, not going to hurt the market when we get to the 10000g range and someone decides to list the epic chestpiece for 100g less than what the previous lowest one was.
I really think the market would be much more reasonable and stable if they merged all the realm AHs (okay, things might be messy early one, but they'll settle). That would provide enough supply to end some of the BS overpricing, but probably provide also enough demand to keep prices as a reasonable level and maybe keep some of the BS price roller-coasters away or make them less extreme.
Meh, I just do percentage based undercutting, as opposed to 1c. That may be because most of the stuff I sell is old world(s) mats, which are handedly snapped up by powerlevelers, so the person who was undercutted most likely will be bought out pretty soon.
Hrm, so 5.4.7 is tomorrow; the CE mount/pet are in the files, the lvl 90 boost is in the files...I wonder if they're going to announce the CE/Digital Deluxe preorder tomorrow too.
IIRC when they did so with MoP you could get the mount/pet way early by preordering straight from blizzard via the DD (I always do the physical CE), so it wouldn't be too out of bounds.
Though, usually a release date comes with the preorder and that might be a ways off yet.
Well I really do think what will be the end of Mists will be the new character art and a few people bitching about how they look now
So it's still off to Soon™
I wish they would have a way to order the physical deluxe edition from them, and get the digital stuff immediately. But naturally, no, since they make basically all of the money for it right there, why offer more.
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Huh. So you guys know that WoD rogue talent, Shadow Reflection? Summon a shadow that will watch what you do for 8 seconds, and then copy it for 8 seconds after? There was kind of an info dump via Tweets about the skill.
What's the ability that's given the design crew the most nightmares recently?
Shadow Reflection, at the moment. Customizing what it copies, and ensure it benefits from other passives. We'll get it right. (Celestalon)
It has pretty crazy potential. I'm especially eager to see what some high end PvPers can do with it, when they get good at... (Celestalon)
...anticipating their enemies actions. It will be very hard to line up, but you could both damage and CC/interrupt with it. (Celestalon)
(Of course it has quite solid PvE potential as well, but the things you do with it will be less... unexpected) (Celestalon) Maybe not best place/time for this q, but: What happens if current target despawns/dies or a target clear otherwise occurs?
Shadow despawns. She's tied to the target. (Celestalon) So it requires 16 seconds of consecutive uptime on a single target to work fully -- and 9 just to have any effect at all?
Er... wait. Maybe not uptime. What happens if I hit ShadRef while out of range of the target and spam Mutilate for 8 seconds?
Target needs to be attackable at time 0, and time 8-16. You need to be able to attack SOMETHING for time 0-8. (Celestalon)
It only copies abilities you successfully cast. You don't have to be in range of what you put it on though. (Celestalon) So basically Shadow is much cooler, simpler and easy to use version of Focusing Crytal?
Nope. (Celestalon) does the shadow only copy abilities or autoattacks as well? Poisons?
Offensive abilities only, no auto attacks or poisons. (Celestalon) Is the shadow affected by any diminishing return timers that the player may have triggered during the "recording" period?
Yes, DR fully affects all of her casts, just as if you or another friendly rogue had cast them. (Celestalon) I take it that means dynamic buffs also update on the rogue/shadow dynamically (e.g., Heroism at the 10th second)?
She inherits your buffs live, not offset. So you get an Agi proc and Mut just before it wears off, it won't affect her Mut. (Celestalon)
However, if you get an Agi proc AFTER you Mutilate, her Mutilate WOULD benefit from it. (Celestalon) Suessing it wont work for Smoke? Or will the debuff be refreshed on the target and still removed elsewhere?
I know Smoke Bomb has offensive potential, but we're not going to count it as an offensive ability; she won't copy it. (Celestalon) It's going to be a lot of fun watching how our resident geniuses plan and plot around all of this. I really hope it works.
Yeah, it has a really fun kit to it too; it's like you're teaching a pupil the best combo you know. (Celestalon) An incredibly adept pupil, anyway. And attractive, too.
Hah... Not at the moment! My test character is currently one of the new race models that isn't done yet... Untextured skin! (Celestalon) I can only imagine what that looks like, I'm guessing a little creepy.
More than a little. (Celestalon)
The best thing they could do for the game economy is forcibly break TSM and anything like it and make people do their own work if they want to "play the auction house." There's nothing wrong with wanting to reap profits from obvious oversights etc. but TSM takes any and all effort away from the game.
Set up a list that you no doubt simply looked up online
Go to AH
Click two buttons
Congrats. You're now the lowest listing for 1000 auctions, and that's really damn stupid. Niche players who ONLY play the AH should never, ever be able to outdo a legitimate player who is using every aspect of the game (dungeons, farming, raids, dailies, whatever). I agree with the post above about merging every AH: no one person should be able to corner any market
The best thing they could do for the game economy is forcibly break TSM and anything like it and make people do their own work if they want to "play the auction house." There's nothing wrong with wanting to reap profits from obvious oversights etc. but TSM takes any and all effort away from the game.
Set up a list that you no doubt simply looked up online
Go to AH
Click two buttons
Congrats. You're now the lowest listing for 1000 auctions, and that's really damn stupid. Niche players who ONLY play the AH should never, ever be able to outdo a legitimate player who is using every aspect of the game (dungeons, farming, raids, dailies, whatever). I agree with the post above about merging every AH: no one person should be able to corner any market
The ones that you're talking about, the players that make absurd amounts of gold off the AH by buying out stuff and repricing take it just as seriously as people that do the hardmode raids and farm the challenge modes for other people. It takes weeks for a person to have enough information to make gold off the market and keep it healthy enough to continue to do so. The people being complained about here are the ones that just throw stuff up at the lowest price to make a quick buck, they're the ones that do the dungeons and quests and go into raids. If you're going to be annoyed at someone for ruining the market, at least direct your ire at the proper type of person. Or just blame pvp, that seems to always get a response.
$60? Yikes! I've always felt that they priced things like transfers, name changes, appearance changes, etc. as to not encourage people to use them that often, this appears to be in line with that idea.
Huh. So you guys know that WoD rogue talent, Shadow Reflection? Summon a shadow that will watch what you do for 8 seconds, and then copy it for 8 seconds after? There was kind of an info dump via Tweets about the skill.
What's the ability that's given the design crew the most nightmares recently?
Shadow Reflection, at the moment. Customizing what it copies, and ensure it benefits from other passives. We'll get it right. (Celestalon)
It has pretty crazy potential. I'm especially eager to see what some high end PvPers can do with it, when they get good at... (Celestalon)
...anticipating their enemies actions. It will be very hard to line up, but you could both damage and CC/interrupt with it. (Celestalon)
(Of course it has quite solid PvE potential as well, but the things you do with it will be less... unexpected) (Celestalon) Maybe not best place/time for this q, but: What happens if current target despawns/dies or a target clear otherwise occurs?
Shadow despawns. She's tied to the target. (Celestalon) So it requires 16 seconds of consecutive uptime on a single target to work fully -- and 9 just to have any effect at all?
Er... wait. Maybe not uptime. What happens if I hit ShadRef while out of range of the target and spam Mutilate for 8 seconds?
Target needs to be attackable at time 0, and time 8-16. You need to be able to attack SOMETHING for time 0-8. (Celestalon)
It only copies abilities you successfully cast. You don't have to be in range of what you put it on though. (Celestalon) So basically Shadow is much cooler, simpler and easy to use version of Focusing Crytal?
Nope. (Celestalon) does the shadow only copy abilities or autoattacks as well? Poisons?
Offensive abilities only, no auto attacks or poisons. (Celestalon) Is the shadow affected by any diminishing return timers that the player may have triggered during the "recording" period?
Yes, DR fully affects all of her casts, just as if you or another friendly rogue had cast them. (Celestalon) I take it that means dynamic buffs also update on the rogue/shadow dynamically (e.g., Heroism at the 10th second)?
She inherits your buffs live, not offset. So you get an Agi proc and Mut just before it wears off, it won't affect her Mut. (Celestalon)
However, if you get an Agi proc AFTER you Mutilate, her Mutilate WOULD benefit from it. (Celestalon) Suessing it wont work for Smoke? Or will the debuff be refreshed on the target and still removed elsewhere?
I know Smoke Bomb has offensive potential, but we're not going to count it as an offensive ability; she won't copy it. (Celestalon) It's going to be a lot of fun watching how our resident geniuses plan and plot around all of this. I really hope it works.
Yeah, it has a really fun kit to it too; it's like you're teaching a pupil the best combo you know. (Celestalon) An incredibly adept pupil, anyway. And attractive, too.
Hah... Not at the moment! My test character is currently one of the new race models that isn't done yet... Untextured skin! (Celestalon) I can only imagine what that looks like, I'm guessing a little creepy.
More than a little. (Celestalon)
I'll reserve judgement until I've seen this thing in action, but this bit in particular:
does the shadow only copy abilities or autoattacks as well? Poisons?
Offensive abilities only, no auto attacks or poisons. (Celestalon)
is worrisome, only because Mutilate is so incredibly costly that you'd only be able to have this thing copy, at best, two Mut's and a finisher in that nine seconds. Unless they heavily tweak the energy cost/damage of the primary energy spending abilities and severely downplay the auto attacking in WoD, which would be amazing. But not likely.
According to MMO-C, the level 90 boosts are live in the store today.
They're $60.
What the fuck.
Yeah, that's...wow. I could have understood 20 or even 30, but pricing it at the cost of four months worth of subscription is crazy steep. I don't envy the CMs who have to police the forums today (and whatever day this officially gets announced). Their servers must literally be shaking with collective rage right now.
Yeah, I was considering using the free one and one paid to round out my roster and then take a break before the expansion. There's no way in hell I'm paying that much for a boost.
Something that might be interesting is if the Character Boost's price scaled depending on the target character's level, or if you could buy the profession boost separately.
Level 1? Full price. Level 60? Half price. Going from 85 to 90? $10.
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I'd say pricing it the same as a full game makes sense to me. It is a significant way to modify how you play the game, and it shouldn't be done easily.
Although, if you pay 60 and it doesn't include a professions boost, that would be garbage. I'm going to hope that the proposed level 60 restriction on boosting professions to 600 is related to the one free boost.
I'd say pricing it the same as a full game makes sense to me. It is a significant way to modify how you play the game, and it shouldn't be done easily.
Although, if you pay 60 and it doesn't include a professions boost, that would be garbage. I'm going to hope that the proposed level 60 restriction on boosting professions to 600 is related to the one free boost.
Nothing that has been presented implies that to be true in any way.
I'd say pricing it the same as a full game makes sense to me. It is a significant way to modify how you play the game, and it shouldn't be done easily.
Although, if you pay 60 and it doesn't include a professions boost, that would be garbage. I'm going to hope that the proposed level 60 restriction on boosting professions to 600 is related to the one free boost.
The full game (Battlechest + MoP) is only 40 dollars though.
I suppose I was mistakenly thinking this shit isn't fully live starting today, but the screenshot implies otherwise. So yeah, ignore that foolish dream.
I suppose I was mistakenly thinking this shit isn't fully live starting today, but the screenshot implies otherwise. So yeah, ignore that foolish dream.
Oh, it's not live at the moment. It was available for a short time after maintenance, but was quickly removed.
Yea 40 would be more my price point, because it costs that much to set up a new account for RAF and triple xp - if you don't care about the RAF mounts. I mean I did one ragefire with a RAF account in the party and no rest xp - walked out with six levels, before turning in quests.
Yeah, I was thinking they'd keep it around the price of setting up a new account. On the other hand, if someone wants that free 90 with the new account on an existing account, I'm assuming that requires one to pay for a transfer, so it might not be that out of line.
As for the profession boost. I guess it depends on what professions one wants to level and if that includes secondaries as well. With secondaries and two of the more obnoxious to level primary professions, that is probably a fairly good build; especially, if one can go from 0 to 600. In short level a new toon up to sixty with all the planned professions learned at 1 and then boost.
If it doesn't include the secondaries and/or requires professions to be at a certain level. Then it starts to lose value; especially, if the planned primary professions are gathering one because then it's like, "dude just devote some time to gathering shit and make use of the AH."
Actually, with the cataclysm revamp, 1-60 grind isn't too bad. It's the grind after that that started to grate on my nerves. So leveling a toon up high enough to benefit from the profession boost, might be worth it for most folks.
Yeah, I was thinking they'd keep it around the price of setting up a new account. On the other hand, if someone wants that free 90 with the new account on an existing account, I'm assuming that requires one to pay for a transfer, so it might not be that out of line.
As for the profession boost. I guess it depends on what professions one wants to level and if that includes secondaries as well. With secondaries and two of the more obnoxious to level primary professions, that is probably a fairly good build; especially, if one can go from 0 to 600. In short level a new toon up to sixty with all the planned professions learned at 1 and then boost.
If it doesn't include the secondaries and/or requires professions to be at a certain level. Then it starts to lose value; especially, if the planned primary professions are gathering one because then it's like, "dude just devote some time to gathering shit and make use of the AH."
Actually, with the cataclysm revamp, 1-60 grind isn't too bad. It's the grind after that that started to grate on my nerves. So leveling a toon up high enough to benefit from the profession boost, might be worth it for most folks.
Except you can make the new toon on your actual account. Set up a throw away email address - send RAF. Use the invite and buy battlechest (and MoP if you want). Level the two new toons together (one RAF account, one on yours) - both get 300 percent xp boost while grouped (and heirlooms also increase it even more). I'm assuming the xp bonus stops at 85, but not sure.
In any case, 60 is out of my price range. Not in the 'I can't afford that way', but 'I dont think I could spend that much on it' way. Especially as you don't even get professions maxed, much less secondaries.
Posts
There is a difference: 1c undercut is never worth buying and relisting, whereas 5g undercut could be. The 5g undercut therefore has a higher chance to sell, which means that the seller gets their gold and the buyer gets the joy of trying to be the next great AH baron.
Or maybe the buyer is just a regular joe who got an item for 5g cheaper than otherwise, in which case the seller still gets their gold and the buyer benefits by having 5g more to spend on cyber prostitutes in Goldshire.
This guy gets it ^
If you're being undercut for 5, 10, 50 gold, that means you are basically trying to rip off your buyer and are bitching because the other venders don't want to get all OPEC with you and rip them off together.
Everything about how you earn gold in the game via not the AH is balanced against earning money on the AH. Doing this would fuck the game up.
I really think the market would be much more reasonable and stable if they merged all the realm AHs (okay, things might be messy early one, but they'll settle). That would provide enough supply to end some of the BS overpricing, but probably provide also enough demand to keep prices as a reasonable level and maybe keep some of the BS price roller-coasters away or make them less extreme.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
WoW
Dear Satan.....
IIRC when they did so with MoP you could get the mount/pet way early by preordering straight from blizzard via the DD (I always do the physical CE), so it wouldn't be too out of bounds.
Though, usually a release date comes with the preorder and that might be a ways off yet.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
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So it's still off to Soon™
Set up a list that you no doubt simply looked up online
Go to AH
Click two buttons
Congrats. You're now the lowest listing for 1000 auctions, and that's really damn stupid. Niche players who ONLY play the AH should never, ever be able to outdo a legitimate player who is using every aspect of the game (dungeons, farming, raids, dailies, whatever). I agree with the post above about merging every AH: no one person should be able to corner any market
The ones that you're talking about, the players that make absurd amounts of gold off the AH by buying out stuff and repricing take it just as seriously as people that do the hardmode raids and farm the challenge modes for other people. It takes weeks for a person to have enough information to make gold off the market and keep it healthy enough to continue to do so. The people being complained about here are the ones that just throw stuff up at the lowest price to make a quick buck, they're the ones that do the dungeons and quests and go into raids. If you're going to be annoyed at someone for ruining the market, at least direct your ire at the proper type of person. Or just blame pvp, that seems to always get a response.
R*SC: BladeCruiser
Check out my GTAV-PC custom race tracks inspired by real life racing circuits!
They're $60.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
By certain people.
I don't see competition reducing prices as being bad in any way shape or form. Markets, baby.
What the fuck.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I saw that it boosts you to 600, but you have to be past level 60 to get that, so that heavily devalues the worth of the level boost.
On the other hand, damn, four months' worth of subscription to get to level 90?
I'll reserve judgement until I've seen this thing in action, but this bit in particular:
is worrisome, only because Mutilate is so incredibly costly that you'd only be able to have this thing copy, at best, two Mut's and a finisher in that nine seconds. Unless they heavily tweak the energy cost/damage of the primary energy spending abilities and severely downplay the auto attacking in WoD, which would be amazing. But not likely.
Yeah, that's...wow. I could have understood 20 or even 30, but pricing it at the cost of four months worth of subscription is crazy steep. I don't envy the CMs who have to police the forums today (and whatever day this officially gets announced). Their servers must literally be shaking with collective rage right now.
Level 1? Full price. Level 60? Half price. Going from 85 to 90? $10.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Although, if you pay 60 and it doesn't include a professions boost, that would be garbage. I'm going to hope that the proposed level 60 restriction on boosting professions to 600 is related to the one free boost.
Pins!
Nothing that has been presented implies that to be true in any way.
The full game (Battlechest + MoP) is only 40 dollars though.
Pins!
I was referring more to most games in general, although I like your point and wish Bliz liked it too.
Pins!
Oh, it's not live at the moment. It was available for a short time after maintenance, but was quickly removed.
Pins!
I figured it would be about $40.00.
Yea 40 would be more my price point, because it costs that much to set up a new account for RAF and triple xp - if you don't care about the RAF mounts. I mean I did one ragefire with a RAF account in the party and no rest xp - walked out with six levels, before turning in quests.
It's a bug and they're working on it.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
As for the profession boost. I guess it depends on what professions one wants to level and if that includes secondaries as well. With secondaries and two of the more obnoxious to level primary professions, that is probably a fairly good build; especially, if one can go from 0 to 600. In short level a new toon up to sixty with all the planned professions learned at 1 and then boost.
If it doesn't include the secondaries and/or requires professions to be at a certain level. Then it starts to lose value; especially, if the planned primary professions are gathering one because then it's like, "dude just devote some time to gathering shit and make use of the AH."
Actually, with the cataclysm revamp, 1-60 grind isn't too bad. It's the grind after that that started to grate on my nerves. So leveling a toon up high enough to benefit from the profession boost, might be worth it for most folks.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Except you can make the new toon on your actual account. Set up a throw away email address - send RAF. Use the invite and buy battlechest (and MoP if you want). Level the two new toons together (one RAF account, one on yours) - both get 300 percent xp boost while grouped (and heirlooms also increase it even more). I'm assuming the xp bonus stops at 85, but not sure.
In any case, 60 is out of my price range. Not in the 'I can't afford that way', but 'I dont think I could spend that much on it' way. Especially as you don't even get professions maxed, much less secondaries.