There will never be a point where Marvel would rather remove Erik from the Holocaust versus de-ageing him. The latter is super easy and has been done a bunch already while the former drastically changes just about every major story Erik has had.
Black Widow is, like, 90 years old, so is Namor. Age is a non-issue in comics.
Of course, it's easy to just say Namor is immortal, and Russia still has enough problems that it's easy to picture Widow developing there in the modern day. Anyway, I'm not saying they should change Magneto's origin, I'm just wondering if they'll ever feel the pressure to retcon it in an attempt to simplify things for new readers.
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
There will never be a point where Marvel would rather remove Erik from the Holocaust versus de-ageing him. The latter is super easy and has been done a bunch already while the former drastically changes just about every major story Erik has had.
Black Widow is, like, 90 years old, so is Namor. Age is a non-issue in comics.
Of course, it's easy to just say Namor is immortal, and Russia still has enough problems that it's easy to picture Widow developing there in the modern day. Anyway, I'm not saying they should change Magneto's origin, I'm just wondering if they'll ever feel the pressure to retcon it in an attempt to simplify things for new readers.
as I said above, I think the pressure from their common sense/PR department to not give the appearance of sweeping a character's holocaust survivor background/ethnic identity under the rug will far outweigh any desire to "simplify" things.
Yeah I think they're more likely to just eventually time-travel Magneto, or just kill him off, or maybe give him another long-lost kid who's got his same power set (though likely weaker).
I think for Magneto being a Holocaust survivor informs too much of his personal tragedy.
Now, if they were to do another rebooted universe (a la Ultimates) I could see Magneto being a survivor of a different atrocity, and being of a different ethnicity to match. I wouldn't personally have a problem with that.
Now, if they were to do another rebooted universe (a la Ultimates) I could see Magneto being a survivor of a different atrocity, and being of a different ethnicity to match. I wouldn't personally have a problem with that.
Ultimate Magneto took away the Holocaust origin and we got a psychopath who made the President strip nude and lick his boots on national TV.
Let's be fair, there a lot of other things at play in making Ultimate Magneto godawful then a change to his origin.
Oh yes, but I definitely think it contributed.
Without being a victim of horrific genocide/racial or ethnic war crimes Erik doesn't have his sympathetic core that makes him such an amazing character
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
Ultimate Magneto took away the Holocaust origin and we got a psychopath who made the President strip nude and lick his boots on national TV.
Let's be fair, there a lot of other things at play in making Ultimate Magneto godawful then a change to his origin.
Oh yes, but I definitely think it contributed.
Without being a victim of horrific genocide/racial or ethnic war crimes Erik doesn't have his sympathetic core that makes him such an amazing character
As I recall, the Ultimate X-Men comics imply he did survive a genocide, though they never explore it too much. Anyway, that's not a problem with Magneto's origin, just his actions along what I am just now naming the Magneto Morality Spectrum.
At one end you have a man obsessed with his personal vendetta and perfectly willing to manipulate other mutants to accomplish it, and at the other you have a guy who is actually dedicated to his greater cause and feels sympathy for his fellow mutants. Both use extreme methods, but one is an asshole who just wants revenge, while the other is a straight up anti-hero. Which end of the spectrum he's closer to depends entirely on the writer.
Personally, I think a middle option is best, Magneto as a man who has completely lost perspective and can no longer separate his personal vendetta from the cause he preaches, except on some subconscious level, quickly rationalizing away any guilt.
Now, if they were to do another rebooted universe (a la Ultimates) I could see Magneto being a survivor of a different atrocity, and being of a different ethnicity to match. I wouldn't personally have a problem with that.
Now I'm picturing Rwandan Magneto.
I would read the hell out of this
I mean I wouldn't want it to replace 616 Erik but that would make for a fascinating OGN or What If
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
Yeah but Millar wrote all of the big Magneto stories except for Ultimatum and the one BKV did but even there he was a psycho who beat a teenager girl close to death with a chair.
Ultimate Magneto was an unrepentant asshole madman and his lack of a sympathetic origin definitely contributedto that.
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
Yeah but Millar wrote all of the big Magneto stories except for the one BKV did but even there he was a psycho who beat a teenager girl close to death with a chair.
Ultimate Magneto was a [Mark Millar character] and his lack of a sympathetic origin definitely contributedto that.
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
Yeah but Millar wrote all of the big Magneto stories except for the one BKV did but even there he was a psycho who beat a teenager girl close to death with a chair.
Ultimate Magneto was an unrepentant asshole madman and his lack of a sympathetic origin definitely contributedto that.
Again, I'm pretty sure they mentioned his survived a genocide. They just didn't go in-depth into his origin.
Besides, it's a valid take on Magneto, even if Millar was awful at it. Mind you, I don't think it's a better take on Magneto. Even someone as talented as Morrison couldn't quite make it work. Magneto's simply more interesting when he's a man of moral contradictions.
I honestly don't remember any mention of a genocide with Ultimate Mags.
Wiki says he mentions it once to Cyclops but then later contradicts himself and says he comes from a wealthy family that he no longer speaks to.
Regardless, a one-off sentence doesn't really compare to 616 Erik's origin. Going "oh yeah I was in a (completely unspecified) genocide it was horrible" doesn't equate to a sympathetic origin
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AtomicTofuShe's a straight-up supervillain, yoRegistered Userregular
You guys know that Magneto's holocaust origin was a retcon that Chris Claremont added to his history right, silver age magneto had no tragic backstory, he was just a generic maniacal world conquerer.
When it comes to retconning or de-aging, I think Magneto will keep getting de-aged.
However, I could see them retconning when Magneto and Xavier meet, in order to avoid having to de-age Xavier again.
Though if they were ever going to retcon Magneto, I don't think it'd be his origin, it'd be the middle of his history. They'd say he got frozen like Captain America (or was trapped in stasis, or another dimension, or whatever) and just got out in the last decade or two and all of his stories have taken place in that time.
The fact that Ultimate Magneto was basically 616 Magneto, but reversed was something I always liked.
A Magneto that presents himself as someone with noble intentions and a vaguley tragic backstory, but is actually a racist murdering asshole is a nice reversal.
Doubly so because that Magneto is how people actually view Erik, while 616 Mags plays the monster when necessary to protect his people.
You guys know that Magneto's holocaust origin was a retcon that Chris Claremont added to his history right, silver age magneto had no tragic backstory, he was just a generic maniacal world conquerer.
I actually didn't know that!
But even then it has since become incredibly vital to the character.
didn't Claremont basically establish the canon in the X-books anyway? I mean, like, sure characters had origins and backstories before that, but Claremont basically reinvented the title, and expanded it to what people know and love today.
Also I'm pretty sure he added all the most famous and/or crazy stories from the X-books, like DoFP and Phoenix Saga.
didn't Claremont basically establish the canon in the X-books anyway? I mean, like, sure characters had origins and backstories before that, but Claremont basically reinvented the title, and expanded it to what people know and love today.
Also I'm pretty sure he added all the most famous and/or crazy stories from the X-books, like DoFP and Phoenix Saga.
Claremont reinvented not just the X-Men but what monthly superhero comics were at the time.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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TrippyJingMoses supposes his toeses are roses.But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered Userregular
There will never be a point where Marvel would rather remove Erik from the Holocaust versus de-ageing him. The latter is super easy and has been done a bunch already while the former drastically changes just about every major story Erik has had.
Black Widow is, like, 90 years old, so is Namor. Age is a non-issue in comics.
I really wonder as to the state of these kinds of characters another few decades from now.
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
However, I could see them retconning when Magneto and Xavier meet, in order to avoid having to de-age Xavier again.
One reason I think they might one day change Magneto's origin is that he's really the only X-Men character with this problem. It's extremely easy to update Professor Xavier to the modern world, as he's not tied to any particular events from history, and most of the other mutants who do have older origins are functionally immortal anyway.
Simply freezing Mags doesn't work that well, because meeting Xavier when they're both still idealistic young men, becoming friends, and then growing apart is as big a part of his origin as the Holocaust. Their relationship has defined the central conflict of the X-Men books for decades.
The fact that Ultimate Magneto was basically 616 Magneto, but reversed was something I always liked.
A Magneto that presents himself as someone with noble intentions and a vaguley tragic backstory, but is actually a racist murdering asshole is a nice reversal.
Doubly so because that Magneto is how people actually view Erik, while 616 Mags plays the monster when necessary to protect his people.
It's not really a reversal, considering 616 Magneto has boomeranged from noble anti-hero to complete monster and back more than once.
all this talk of de aging got me thinking, was there ever a super old magneto in the comics? Like "looks like he shouldn't still be alive" old? I think that could possibly be cool.
all this talk of de aging got me thinking, was there ever a super old magneto in the comics? Like "looks like he shouldn't still be alive" old? I think that could possibly be cool.
Longshot saves the universe had a old senile Magneto
Actually I think that as the holocaust becomes more and more a distant memory until it is lost from living history
Magneto's resonance and character as a holocaust survivor will grow
Because as the holocaust becomes more distant it becomes somehow more swathed in this mythic feel of the ultimate horror, a time from the past that nobody remembers but everybody knows.
And I think that, whatever my opinions on that as a historian, it will it in with the pseudo-realistic, semi-legendary nature of the superhero comic, the ultimate victim figure of the ultimate persecution, a link to the real world that is in itself larger than life. Magneto will become stronger for it, I think. Nobody remembers Homer's Greece but the Iliad is no less a potent work for it, in fact it is even more so. The anachronisms and inaccuracies fade in comparison to the legendary historical weight of it all.
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Of course, it's easy to just say Namor is immortal, and Russia still has enough problems that it's easy to picture Widow developing there in the modern day. Anyway, I'm not saying they should change Magneto's origin, I'm just wondering if they'll ever feel the pressure to retcon it in an attempt to simplify things for new readers.
as I said above, I think the pressure from their common sense/PR department to not give the appearance of sweeping a character's holocaust survivor background/ethnic identity under the rug will far outweigh any desire to "simplify" things.
Can it not be? Make it happen Marvel!
I think for Magneto being a Holocaust survivor informs too much of his personal tragedy.
Now, if they were to do another rebooted universe (a la Ultimates) I could see Magneto being a survivor of a different atrocity, and being of a different ethnicity to match. I wouldn't personally have a problem with that.
the stuff after that was still good, but that's an unfair act to ask anyone to follow
(duh)
Now I'm picturing Rwandan Magneto.
Let's be fair, there a lot of other things at play in making Ultimate Magneto godawful then a change to his origin.
Without being a victim of horrific genocide/racial or ethnic war crimes Erik doesn't have his sympathetic core that makes him such an amazing character
As I recall, the Ultimate X-Men comics imply he did survive a genocide, though they never explore it too much. Anyway, that's not a problem with Magneto's origin, just his actions along what I am just now naming the Magneto Morality Spectrum.
At one end you have a man obsessed with his personal vendetta and perfectly willing to manipulate other mutants to accomplish it, and at the other you have a guy who is actually dedicated to his greater cause and feels sympathy for his fellow mutants. Both use extreme methods, but one is an asshole who just wants revenge, while the other is a straight up anti-hero. Which end of the spectrum he's closer to depends entirely on the writer.
Personally, I think a middle option is best, Magneto as a man who has completely lost perspective and can no longer separate his personal vendetta from the cause he preaches, except on some subconscious level, quickly rationalizing away any guilt.
I mean I wouldn't want it to replace 616 Erik but that would make for a fascinating OGN or What If
okay, Mark Millar then
even more likely that Magneto's origin isn't the cause of the problem
Ultimate Magneto was an unrepentant asshole madman and his lack of a sympathetic origin definitely contributedto that.
Again, I'm pretty sure they mentioned his survived a genocide. They just didn't go in-depth into his origin.
Besides, it's a valid take on Magneto, even if Millar was awful at it. Mind you, I don't think it's a better take on Magneto. Even someone as talented as Morrison couldn't quite make it work. Magneto's simply more interesting when he's a man of moral contradictions.
Wiki says he mentions it once to Cyclops but then later contradicts himself and says he comes from a wealthy family that he no longer speaks to.
Regardless, a one-off sentence doesn't really compare to 616 Erik's origin. Going "oh yeah I was in a (completely unspecified) genocide it was horrible" doesn't equate to a sympathetic origin
Steam
Gotta own that.
However, I could see them retconning when Magneto and Xavier meet, in order to avoid having to de-age Xavier again.
Though if they were ever going to retcon Magneto, I don't think it'd be his origin, it'd be the middle of his history. They'd say he got frozen like Captain America (or was trapped in stasis, or another dimension, or whatever) and just got out in the last decade or two and all of his stories have taken place in that time.
A Magneto that presents himself as someone with noble intentions and a vaguley tragic backstory, but is actually a racist murdering asshole is a nice reversal.
Doubly so because that Magneto is how people actually view Erik, while 616 Mags plays the monster when necessary to protect his people.
But even then it has since become incredibly vital to the character.
Also I'm pretty sure he added all the most famous and/or crazy stories from the X-books, like DoFP and Phoenix Saga.
Claremont's stagnation as a writer has really overshadowed just how much of a revolutionary he was at the time.
Steam
Claremont reinvented not just the X-Men but what monthly superhero comics were at the time.
I really wonder as to the state of these kinds of characters another few decades from now.
One reason I think they might one day change Magneto's origin is that he's really the only X-Men character with this problem. It's extremely easy to update Professor Xavier to the modern world, as he's not tied to any particular events from history, and most of the other mutants who do have older origins are functionally immortal anyway.
Simply freezing Mags doesn't work that well, because meeting Xavier when they're both still idealistic young men, becoming friends, and then growing apart is as big a part of his origin as the Holocaust. Their relationship has defined the central conflict of the X-Men books for decades.
It's not really a reversal, considering 616 Magneto has boomeranged from noble anti-hero to complete monster and back more than once.
It informs so much of his character, and his character is so great
For him to be anything else would feel lesser, somehow
Longshot saves the universe had a old senile Magneto
Magneto's resonance and character as a holocaust survivor will grow
Because as the holocaust becomes more distant it becomes somehow more swathed in this mythic feel of the ultimate horror, a time from the past that nobody remembers but everybody knows.
And I think that, whatever my opinions on that as a historian, it will it in with the pseudo-realistic, semi-legendary nature of the superhero comic, the ultimate victim figure of the ultimate persecution, a link to the real world that is in itself larger than life. Magneto will become stronger for it, I think. Nobody remembers Homer's Greece but the Iliad is no less a potent work for it, in fact it is even more so. The anachronisms and inaccuracies fade in comparison to the legendary historical weight of it all.