part of the way the show establishes its atmosphere of dread is to have those who are cult-mad say things that straddle the ambiguity of unnatural or impossible knowledge (seeing into Rust's soul, knowing who he is and what he believes and what he's like) and coincidental cult-raving that just seems like knowledge (he could easily see anyone in Carcosa as a priest, or any victim/impending victim as a priest through whom he will receive the beneficence of the yellow king, or etc.)
i'm still not sure why the old woman who made the family connection for them was all into Carcosa and that.
part of the way the show establishes its atmosphere of dread is to have those who are cult-mad say things that straddle the ambiguity of unnatural or impossible knowledge (seeing into Rust's soul, knowing who he is and what he believes and what he's like) and coincidental cult-raving that just seems like knowledge (he could easily see anyone in Carcosa as a priest, or any victim/impending victim as a priest through whom he will receive the beneficence of the yellow king, or etc.)
i'm still not sure why the old woman who made the family connection for them was all into Carcosa and that.
Yeah, when Charlie Lange was saying how Dora said she met a king and was going to become a Nun. I got it. Errol drugged her up on LSD and convinced her he was a king. Made it easy to kill her. So that was simple.
The old lady worked for Sam Tuttle for 19 years. She knew Sam Tuttle fathered lots of children outside his marriage and said basically "People minded their own business back then." She also says "He(Sam Tuttle) didn't like a woman. See once she had it done to her, he didn't like em but that one time." So if she knew that Sam was doing one-time only bangs of young girls and taking their virginity, and she knew that Errol's father is the one that scarred his face. Then she said "I shouldn't be talking to you about this."
So we get the impression that she was allowed to see things with the presumption that she would not talk about it. It's only when Rust shows her the devil's net drawings that she says "You know Carcosa?" And goes into her crazy talk about death is not the end. So to me, it's just telling us that she saw crazy shit and suppressed it now, but seeing the devil's nets brought it back out.
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DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2014
Errol and Marty are drinking buddies and he told him about Rust's crucifix, hence the "little priest" jab.
Also, since others seem to have missed that Errol was just copying TV voices, pasting an earlier response I had on page 38. That page has a link to the interview with Pizzolatto that's a good read too if you haven't.
He had North by Northwest playing on his TV and he was doing a James Mason voice.
He did voices because watching those stacks of VCR movies was how he learned to put on different faces when he needed/wanted to, after being abused and becoming a monstrous psychopath.
Errol taught himself to speak proper like in the movies because it enabled him to get close to the women and kids at the schools/churches that he wanted to victimize. His real voice, the one he uses to say "No" to Rust is super creepy and he knows it.
Also, crazy interesting easter eggs. If you go to that link for the dialogue from North by Northwest(the Alfred Hitchcock movie playing while Errol is copying the James Mason voice from it), you can find these things(maybe more but these are the ones I picked up and saw elsewhere online)
Makeup artist for the movie: William Tuttle
Secretary in movie named Maggie: Uncredited actress who played her: Doreen Lang
One of the first lines of dialogue: "Now you listen to me, I'm an advertising man, not a red herring."
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Ok.
I really just want to say, I like how the end of the episode seemed to really emphasize how badly Errol fucked up both of them.
Not just the fight scene either. I mean, it was just brutal. But the emphasis on them in the hospital really sold to me that they were in intensive care for a while. Like, maybe they were in there for over a month?
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darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
I really just want to say, I like how the end of the episode seemed to really emphasize how badly Errol fucked up both of them.
Not just the fight scene either. I mean, it was just brutal. But the emphasis on them in the hospital really sold to me that they were in intensive care for a while. Like, maybe they were in there for over a month?
I don't think it was that long, but I definitely think it was their psyche that was more damaged than their physical bodies. I kind of agree with others that the final line was out of character for Rust, and at the same time it showed a little bit of humanity and hope that I think most people are looking for. Personally I was a little disappointed in the last three episodes, but the series itself was still something great, and I'm happy to have experienced the story. Definitely awaiting season 2, but I'm skeptical it will be able to live up to the first season.
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So my suspicions that Nic Pizzolatto is kind of an asshole were confirmed with him kind of throwing Chambers and Lovecraft under the bus as being "not that great" in the Sepinwall interview. The dude directly took multiple lines from The King in Yellow along with several motif's and other stuff here and there, yet comes off as being dismissive of weird fiction and above it all. He's a talented writer, but show some respect where it's due.
Well, Lovecraft wasn't all that great, in my opinion. What everyone else did with the Cthulhu mythos ended up being better.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Lovecraft's prose is really, really bad.
His concepts however are not.
I can certainly see someone calling him a bad writer (I mean, he was a pulp writer at the time with limited success, that only really saw fame much later on).
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Eh, you know. I'm not sure Pizzolatto's opinion on Lovecraft and so on is all that important. It's the kind of thing that will encourage further discussion about him and True Detective, so lots of sites that talk about True Detective can stoke the fires a little more with him expressing an unpopular but pretty harmless personal opinion.
I thought 'The Colour Out of Space' was pretty killer, but there's a lot he did that's somewhat clunky, albeit with mostly amazing ideas trapped inside.
- A lot of the spiral/star imagery and symbolism was deliberate, but a lot was not. For example, yellow crown over Rust's head as he's driving his truck away was not intentional. Also, the spiral drawing one of the Hart girls drew hanging in the Hart house wasn't intentional. The production designer just got a bunch of drawings done by their friend's kids to decorate the Hart house and they didn't realize one of them was a spiral.
- He didn't expect people to read Audrey's behavior as related to the case. Quote: " I read Audrey’s behavior as being the direct result of an inattentive father. Seeking male attention in other places, or even seeking to get into trouble, perhaps, to get the attention of her father; it was not related to the killings or anyone around them." Also he said he thought some of this is just the result of the week by week format. If watching it all at once, viewers probably wouldn't obsess over every little detail the same way and read into it.
He also says while discussing how they had to cut a lot of Hart/Maggie/daughters scenes for time that his original cut for episode 5 was 90 minutes long. God damn I would pay some hefty money if the blu ray of season 1 of this show would have the original cuts for all the episodes in full and in sequence. =/
Also, the kindle version of Pizzolatto's novel Galveston is $2.99 on amazon. I've no idea if it's good, but it's 3 bucks so I bought it to read while I miss Pizzolatto's writing until s2 of the show comes.
“I am still fleshing it out. The basic idea: Hard women, bad men, and the secret occult history of the U.S. transportation system. I was well on my way in the writing but there’s been a lot noise and work around the end of the first season that got in the way,” explained Pizzolatto, who also hinted at a further look into our protagonists from season 1, albeit in a different medium. Quizzed on the fact he’s retained the literary rights to the pair, Pizzolatto said, “maybe you will see Cohle and Hart novels down the road after Hollywood kicks me out. Always a possibility.”
Thought the ending was completely badass. Couldn't help but think that Rust's last vision might have been of the star Aldebaran. In my head canon, that's totally what happened. Maybe they did stop the Yellow King's "becoming". Cosmic horror is ambiguous like that.
I kind of wanted Childress to die whispering, "No mask, no mask..." after he demanded of Rust that he remove his. Obviously, the way he died, that would be impossible, but it would have been a reference I would've appriciated.
RE: Rust's final lines: I thought they were well done and found myself saying, "Fuck yeah, buddy" to the screen after he said them. The light in humanity is in it to win it. It might be going painfully slowly, but those monsters at the end? We're taking them out. One bastard at a time. That's one down. Can't wait for next season to see who comes next.
Speaking of next season, I wonder if any of these seasons will share lore or if they will be well and truely isolated stories. I'd love for there to at least be throwaway references that wink at long time viewers. But then again, I'm a slut for good continuity...
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Stray observations:
Interesting to try to square Rust's hard-line nihilism with the visions or hallucinations he often has. I mean, if you saw stuff randomly, how would you keep it together?
On that note, I figured that explain's Rust's tiny little mirror. Viewers of Mad Men may remember Roger Sterling dropping acid and being advised not to look in the mirror. Pretty sure Rust does not want to be alone in a room with a mirror all the time for similar reasons.
I'm still not convinced there will be a common element between seasons. I don't think Pizzolatto has confirmed that. Also, if s2 is about the occult history of the U.S. transportation system, my guess is that it has to do with rail and human trafficking or something, and I would guess it's going to be set further in the past than season 1. I suppose we'll see.
RE: Common elements though, I think it's more likely that Pizzolatto just includes stuff that's more like easter eggs than direct connections between seasons. For example, the protag of his book Galveston cuts little men out of beer cans with a knife.
I thought Errol was calling him "little prince" which sort of made sense to me since he was chasing a king.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I really enjoy the relative size of this show. 8 episodes? What, 50 minutes apiece? That's like, what, seven hours and change? You can watch the whole thing over the course of three days and not be considered a madman or whatever. I really like that approachability.
I wonder if Gilbough and Papania will be the common element between seasons.
I feel like those two were the show's biggest missed opportunity. wish they were developed passed the guys to call in at the end. Maybe make it some Papania was the one giving Marty the files or something.
I feel like Papania and Gilbough were only really there to support the structure of the story(2012 interviews describing 1995 and 2002 happenings). This was just Marty and Rust's tale, though I think those two guys did a fine job with what they were there for.
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y2jake215certified Flat Birther theoristthe Last Good Boy onlineRegistered Userregular
in case anyone missed it (all my friends didn't seem to think so) this is what i think was meant to be "the yellow king"
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
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y2jake215certified Flat Birther theoristthe Last Good Boy onlineRegistered Userregular
after i saw it i compared to artwork of chambers' yellow king:
etc etc
seems like a possibility
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I had no doubt in my mind that that's what that was. those drawings just make it more clear
Posts
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
he does spend a lot of the series proselytizing, whether to woody or maggie or the detectives
he's always preaching - and they did set up the comparison between him and Theriot where Theriot was saying a lot of the same ideas as Rust was
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
Or just being crazy fucks who assumed Rust must have been in-the-know in order to find them, thus presumed him a to be a fellow priest.
i'm still not sure why the old woman who made the family connection for them was all into Carcosa and that.
I don't know if this has any relevance.
Yeah, when Charlie Lange was saying how Dora said she met a king and was going to become a Nun. I got it. Errol drugged her up on LSD and convinced her he was a king. Made it easy to kill her. So that was simple.
The old lady worked for Sam Tuttle for 19 years. She knew Sam Tuttle fathered lots of children outside his marriage and said basically "People minded their own business back then." She also says "He(Sam Tuttle) didn't like a woman. See once she had it done to her, he didn't like em but that one time." So if she knew that Sam was doing one-time only bangs of young girls and taking their virginity, and she knew that Errol's father is the one that scarred his face. Then she said "I shouldn't be talking to you about this."
So we get the impression that she was allowed to see things with the presumption that she would not talk about it. It's only when Rust shows her the devil's net drawings that she says "You know Carcosa?" And goes into her crazy talk about death is not the end. So to me, it's just telling us that she saw crazy shit and suppressed it now, but seeing the devil's nets brought it back out.
Errol taught himself to speak proper like in the movies because it enabled him to get close to the women and kids at the schools/churches that he wanted to victimize. His real voice, the one he uses to say "No" to Rust is super creepy and he knows it.
Makeup artist for the movie: William Tuttle
Secretary in movie named Maggie: Uncredited actress who played her: Doreen Lang
One of the first lines of dialogue: "Now you listen to me, I'm an advertising man, not a red herring."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/North_by_Northwest
Interesting stuff.
Take away the great chemistry between the central characters and what you're left with is a sloppy crime drama with nebulous symbolism and imagery.
This show wasn't about the crime, except for how it affected the two main characters.
when did they take away the great chemistry between the central characters?
Are there more episodes after episode 8 where that happens?
I really just want to say, I like how the end of the episode seemed to really emphasize how badly Errol fucked up both of them.
I don't think it was that long, but I definitely think it was their psyche that was more damaged than their physical bodies. I kind of agree with others that the final line was out of character for Rust, and at the same time it showed a little bit of humanity and hope that I think most people are looking for. Personally I was a little disappointed in the last three episodes, but the series itself was still something great, and I'm happy to have experienced the story. Definitely awaiting season 2, but I'm skeptical it will be able to live up to the first season.
His concepts however are not.
I can certainly see someone calling him a bad writer (I mean, he was a pulp writer at the time with limited success, that only really saw fame much later on).
I thought 'The Colour Out of Space' was pretty killer, but there's a lot he did that's somewhat clunky, albeit with mostly amazing ideas trapped inside.
Highlights for me:
- A lot of the spiral/star imagery and symbolism was deliberate, but a lot was not. For example, yellow crown over Rust's head as he's driving his truck away was not intentional. Also, the spiral drawing one of the Hart girls drew hanging in the Hart house wasn't intentional. The production designer just got a bunch of drawings done by their friend's kids to decorate the Hart house and they didn't realize one of them was a spiral.
- He didn't expect people to read Audrey's behavior as related to the case. Quote: " I read Audrey’s behavior as being the direct result of an inattentive father. Seeking male attention in other places, or even seeking to get into trouble, perhaps, to get the attention of her father; it was not related to the killings or anyone around them." Also he said he thought some of this is just the result of the week by week format. If watching it all at once, viewers probably wouldn't obsess over every little detail the same way and read into it.
He also says while discussing how they had to cut a lot of Hart/Maggie/daughters scenes for time that his original cut for episode 5 was 90 minutes long. God damn I would pay some hefty money if the blu ray of season 1 of this show would have the original cuts for all the episodes in full and in sequence. =/
Here's a link with the prod designer discussing the origins of a lot of the show's set pieces like the devil's nests, beer can men, spirals, etc. http://www.vulture.com/2014/03/true-detective-alex-digerlando-set-design-props-interview.html
http://www.contactmusic.com/article/true-detective-finale-review-season-2_4104690
Asked about Season 2:
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
I kind of wanted Childress to die whispering, "No mask, no mask..." after he demanded of Rust that he remove his. Obviously, the way he died, that would be impossible, but it would have been a reference I would've appriciated.
RE: Rust's final lines: I thought they were well done and found myself saying, "Fuck yeah, buddy" to the screen after he said them. The light in humanity is in it to win it. It might be going painfully slowly, but those monsters at the end? We're taking them out. One bastard at a time. That's one down. Can't wait for next season to see who comes next.
Speaking of next season, I wonder if any of these seasons will share lore or if they will be well and truely isolated stories. I'd love for there to at least be throwaway references that wink at long time viewers. But then again, I'm a slut for good continuity...
3DS Friend Code: 1461-7489-3097
Interesting to try to square Rust's hard-line nihilism with the visions or hallucinations he often has. I mean, if you saw stuff randomly, how would you keep it together?
On that note, I figured that explain's Rust's tiny little mirror. Viewers of Mad Men may remember Roger Sterling dropping acid and being advised not to look in the mirror. Pretty sure Rust does not want to be alone in a room with a mirror all the time for similar reasons.
RE: Common elements though, I think it's more likely that Pizzolatto just includes stuff that's more like easter eggs than direct connections between seasons. For example, the protag of his book Galveston cuts little men out of beer cans with a knife.
I feel like those two were the show's biggest missed opportunity. wish they were developed passed the guys to call in at the end. Maybe make it some Papania was the one giving Marty the files or something.
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
etc etc
seems like a possibility
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here