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[Agents of Shield] Thread is under quarantine for potential Captain America 2 spoilers!

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Posts

  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    Come on. There is lots of Monkey Related discussion that could be had that will in no way be impacted by Cap 2.

    Have you not seen the movie?
    I really hope someone who hasn't opens this, expecting monkey related spoilers.

    Alternatively, collective laugh at the people unable to see the movie yet!

    syndalis wrote: »
    Apple is a terrible company.
    jdarksunWraith260KhildithJoolanderSeidkonachiasaur11Dedwrekka
  • JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    Cap/AoS
    My guess is that one of the algorithms has gone rogue and created A.I.M within the Hydra/SHIELD Organization. Which will become the basics of the Ultron project seen in Avengers 2 if Antman doesn't come out first.

    AIM already showed up in Iron Man 3

    Nocren
  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    Delmain wrote: »
    Come on. There is lots of Monkey Related discussion that could be had that will in no way be impacted by Cap 2.

    Have you not seen the movie?
    I really hope someone who hasn't opens this, expecting monkey related spoilers.

    Alternatively, collective laugh at the people unable to see the movie yet!
    i hate you.

  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Joolander wrote: »
    Cap/AoS
    My guess is that one of the algorithms has gone rogue and created A.I.M within the Hydra/SHIELD Organization. Which will become the basics of the Ultron project seen in Avengers 2 if Antman doesn't come out first.

    AIM already showed up in Iron Man 3

    I meant Centipede.

  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    Please stop posting unlabeled spoilers or responding to spoilers with unspoiled answers.

    As per El Jeffe's request.

    It really isn't that hard.

    I figure I could take a bear.
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Cap 2 spoilers:
    The most disappointing thing in Cap 2 regarding the show was the lack of a monkey that could eventually become Fitz's best friend and lab assistant.

    I sometimes post pretty pictures to twitter: https://twitter.com/matthewandworld
    Giggles_Funsworth
  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Cap 2 spoilers:
    The most disappointing thing in Cap 2 regarding the show was the lack of a monkey that could eventually become Fitz's best friend and lab assistant.

    AoS
    Monkey's going to join the cast at the start of season 2.

    Also I wonder if #getfitzamonkey is a real thing yet?

    newSig.jpg
  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    Cap2 spoilers/AoS speculation
    For what it's worth, I think Cap2 gave a believable reason to end Agents of SHIELD should ABC/Disney decide not to renew it.

  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    Joolander wrote: »
    Cap/AoS
    My guess is that one of the algorithms has gone rogue and created A.I.M within the Hydra/SHIELD Organization. Which will become the basics of the Ultron project seen in Avengers 2 if Antman doesn't come out first.

    AIM already showed up in Iron Man 3

    I meant Centipede.

    AIM has been name-dropped in AoS. The Blizzard episode, I think. Possibly a couple of other times as well.

  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Cap 2 spoiler:
    Garry Shandling is Jewish.

    As for AoS, it wouldn't make much sense for the Clairvoyant or Centipede to be part of Hydra. Hydra had no problem operating within SHIELD and having SHIELD do its dirty work for decades, so why would it suddenly need to start an organization that works against SHIELD? If anything, the Clairvoyant and Centipede should be working against Hydra.
    Cap2 spoilers
    Because HYDRA works in cells. Just look at how Baron Strucker said he was going to offer up other HYDRA cells to defend his own. Sometimes it's about working together, and sometimes it's about survival. Two HYDRA cells (one in SHIELD and one outside) might occasionally work at cross purposes for the benefit of HYDRA as a whole.


    Also, as soon as they talked about Zola's algorithm my brain pinged "Clairvoyant".

    Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that there's a different Zola working in every HYDRA cell.

    Except the conflict between Centipede and SHIELD
    isn't benefiting Hydra as a whole. Before Cap 2, no one in SHIELD even suspected Hydra's involvement. By revealing the existence of the Clairvoyance, Hydra jeopardizes their secrecy within SHIELD. Letting SHIELD know that they have a mole would only encourage greater oversight and make it harder for Hydra to manipulate SHIELD. Also, the Clairvoyant's security breaches could have delayed the development of Project Insight.

    What Hydra accomplished within SHIELD is a hell of a lot more impressive than what Centipede has done. They shaped major world events for decades, acquired a ton of advanced technology, and almost gained the ability to eliminate any potential enemy they want. It makes a lot more sense to preserve Hydra's position within SHIELD.
    Centipede can serve three purposes. First is R&D that isn't traceable to SHIELD. They can develop weapon systems and enhancements that SHIELD doesn't know about. Second is that they are an outside threat. Something for Fury to send people chasing rather then looking inwards. A distraction. The third is that the side effects of their R&D allow for them to reach for more control and more funding. Project Insight becomes a more compelling project when you aren't just chasing normal terrorists, but terrorists who can make more people with Extremis. It fans the flames of fear. Which further's HYDRA's long term goals. Sure it works against them in the short term, but in the long run there is a lot of upside.

    Except all those things are negated by Centipede's actions and the Clairvoyant.
    Their R&D not being traceable to SHIELD is nice but by revealing their existence to SHIELD, they're only hindering their own progress.

    They're not just an outside threat since they have a mole within SHIELD, they steal tech from SHIELD, and they try to recruit from SHIELD. Those are all reasons for Fury to investigate SHIELD itself.

    Due to Centipede's ability to steal from SHIELD, that just encourages more security and oversight on SHIELD's R&D to ensure that nothing is stolen or misused.

    Project Insight becomes less compelling when SHIELD knows that they have a mole within the organization who can either sabotage it or learn enough about it to render it useless.

    More Cap2 Spoilers:
    Tech stolen from SHIELD doesn't trigger an investigation that leads to HYDRA inside SHIELD. It leads to one person who is expendable. It's the kind of fairly standard counter-intelligence operation they would already be conducting normally. Same with Centipede's recruitment. Those are standard counter-intelligence investigations you run to expose moles. Which isn't the same as exposing the massive hidden conspiracy within SHIELD. When said moles are found, they go "I did it for the money" the counter-intell guys find the money and thus it ends. Increased security and oversight on SHIELD R&D doesn't really matter that much. Centipede is pretty clearly doing it's own work. Jump started by SHIELD tech but with other elements grabbed as well. And given how close HYDRA feels it was to kicking off it's master plan it doesn't matter at all for future tech transfers.

    And that doesn't make Project Insight less compelling. Pretty much the opposite. Particularly the predictive algorithms part. If I can predict future terrorists, I can predict future moles. So you justify tighter security on the project which means more budget. And of course if there are mole attempts from outside terrorist organizations, then that must mean we're on the right track is a pretty easy line to feed oversight committees for more funding.
    That would only be true if all the leaks are low level. However, Centipede's ability to infiltrate and predict SHIELD's actions shows that there are very high level moles. Heck, they suspect the Clairvoyant as someone who is aware of almost all of SHIELD's secrets.

    Centipede's actions are motivating Fury and legit SHIELD leaders to do some really in-depth investigations, not simply accepting every security breach as isolated and easily dismissed incidents. Coulson has the same clearance level as Captain America, which is just two level below Fury, and Coulson knows that the Clairvoyant has access to information that only someone above him can get.
    Given what Fury knows about the Clairvoyant, he should suspect that the Clairvoyant has knowledge of Project Insight, that's a huge security breach that compromises the entire project.

    I put most of your response in spoilers because it really should be.

    Cap2 spoilers:
    Except that Coulson and Skye don't figure out that Centipede has unlimited access to SHIELD until after Fury has gone underground. By the time any SHIELD member comes to the idea that the leak is inside SHIELD we're well into the events of Cap 2. Prior to that SHIELD knows their are leaks. But they believe all of the leaking stuff is external facing. Because the Centipede stuff is external facing. And all spy agencies are running counter-Intel all of the time on their own organizations. It going to assume that the various intelligence agencies around the world are trying to get in. Centipede doesn't raise any special red flags because none of it's leaks appear to be particularly high level. So knowing that Centipede has a few moles in SHIELD doesn't suddenly tell everyone that HYDRA exists.

    And it's fairly effective. At least one of the people that Fury trusts is taken out of play. Coulson and his team would have been a very valuable ally to Cap and the others during the events of Cap2 but instead him and his team are out of place chasing phantoms. Centipede did nothing to harm HYDRA's plans and a fair amount to complement them.

  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Cap 2 spoiler:
    Garry Shandling is Jewish.

    As for AoS, it wouldn't make much sense for the Clairvoyant or Centipede to be part of Hydra. Hydra had no problem operating within SHIELD and having SHIELD do its dirty work for decades, so why would it suddenly need to start an organization that works against SHIELD? If anything, the Clairvoyant and Centipede should be working against Hydra.
    Cap2 spoilers
    Because HYDRA works in cells. Just look at how Baron Strucker said he was going to offer up other HYDRA cells to defend his own. Sometimes it's about working together, and sometimes it's about survival. Two HYDRA cells (one in SHIELD and one outside) might occasionally work at cross purposes for the benefit of HYDRA as a whole.


    Also, as soon as they talked about Zola's algorithm my brain pinged "Clairvoyant".

    Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that there's a different Zola working in every HYDRA cell.

    Except the conflict between Centipede and SHIELD
    isn't benefiting Hydra as a whole. Before Cap 2, no one in SHIELD even suspected Hydra's involvement. By revealing the existence of the Clairvoyance, Hydra jeopardizes their secrecy within SHIELD. Letting SHIELD know that they have a mole would only encourage greater oversight and make it harder for Hydra to manipulate SHIELD. Also, the Clairvoyant's security breaches could have delayed the development of Project Insight.

    What Hydra accomplished within SHIELD is a hell of a lot more impressive than what Centipede has done. They shaped major world events for decades, acquired a ton of advanced technology, and almost gained the ability to eliminate any potential enemy they want. It makes a lot more sense to preserve Hydra's position within SHIELD.
    Centipede can serve three purposes. First is R&D that isn't traceable to SHIELD. They can develop weapon systems and enhancements that SHIELD doesn't know about. Second is that they are an outside threat. Something for Fury to send people chasing rather then looking inwards. A distraction. The third is that the side effects of their R&D allow for them to reach for more control and more funding. Project Insight becomes a more compelling project when you aren't just chasing normal terrorists, but terrorists who can make more people with Extremis. It fans the flames of fear. Which further's HYDRA's long term goals. Sure it works against them in the short term, but in the long run there is a lot of upside.

    Except all those things are negated by Centipede's actions and the Clairvoyant.
    Their R&D not being traceable to SHIELD is nice but by revealing their existence to SHIELD, they're only hindering their own progress.

    They're not just an outside threat since they have a mole within SHIELD, they steal tech from SHIELD, and they try to recruit from SHIELD. Those are all reasons for Fury to investigate SHIELD itself.

    Due to Centipede's ability to steal from SHIELD, that just encourages more security and oversight on SHIELD's R&D to ensure that nothing is stolen or misused.

    Project Insight becomes less compelling when SHIELD knows that they have a mole within the organization who can either sabotage it or learn enough about it to render it useless.

    More Cap2 Spoilers:
    Tech stolen from SHIELD doesn't trigger an investigation that leads to HYDRA inside SHIELD. It leads to one person who is expendable. It's the kind of fairly standard counter-intelligence operation they would already be conducting normally. Same with Centipede's recruitment. Those are standard counter-intelligence investigations you run to expose moles. Which isn't the same as exposing the massive hidden conspiracy within SHIELD. When said moles are found, they go "I did it for the money" the counter-intell guys find the money and thus it ends. Increased security and oversight on SHIELD R&D doesn't really matter that much. Centipede is pretty clearly doing it's own work. Jump started by SHIELD tech but with other elements grabbed as well. And given how close HYDRA feels it was to kicking off it's master plan it doesn't matter at all for future tech transfers.

    And that doesn't make Project Insight less compelling. Pretty much the opposite. Particularly the predictive algorithms part. If I can predict future terrorists, I can predict future moles. So you justify tighter security on the project which means more budget. And of course if there are mole attempts from outside terrorist organizations, then that must mean we're on the right track is a pretty easy line to feed oversight committees for more funding.
    That would only be true if all the leaks are low level. However, Centipede's ability to infiltrate and predict SHIELD's actions shows that there are very high level moles. Heck, they suspect the Clairvoyant as someone who is aware of almost all of SHIELD's secrets.

    Centipede's actions are motivating Fury and legit SHIELD leaders to do some really in-depth investigations, not simply accepting every security breach as isolated and easily dismissed incidents. Coulson has the same clearance level as Captain America, which is just two level below Fury, and Coulson knows that the Clairvoyant has access to information that only someone above him can get.
    Given what Fury knows about the Clairvoyant, he should suspect that the Clairvoyant has knowledge of Project Insight, that's a huge security breach that compromises the entire project.

    I put most of your response in spoilers because it really should be.

    Cap2 spoilers:
    Except that Coulson and Skye don't figure out that Centipede has unlimited access to SHIELD until after Fury has gone underground. By the time any SHIELD member comes to the idea that the leak is inside SHIELD we're well into the events of Cap 2. Prior to that SHIELD knows their are leaks. But they believe all of the leaking stuff is external facing. Because the Centipede stuff is external facing. And all spy agencies are running counter-Intel all of the time on their own organizations. It going to assume that the various intelligence agencies around the world are trying to get in. Centipede doesn't raise any special red flags because none of it's leaks appear to be particularly high level. So knowing that Centipede has a few moles in SHIELD doesn't suddenly tell everyone that HYDRA exists.

    And it's fairly effective. At least one of the people that Fury trusts is taken out of play. Coulson and his team would have been a very valuable ally to Cap and the others during the events of Cap2 but instead him and his team are out of place chasing phantoms. Centipede did nothing to harm HYDRA's plans and a fair amount to complement them.

    AoS/Cap2
    I re-watched it today, and it lines up almost perfectly. Ward shoots the guy, then May says Fury is back in DC and they should head there. Its while they're on the way, I'm assuming Fury has his meetings with Pierce and the car chase - assuming he gets word of Fury being back in office the same day we see him in the office.

    So my guess now is maybe Hand turns the plane around on orders from Fury/Hill - because they didn't want to risk ANYONE coming to the area as being Hydra back-up squads?

    PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    I'm on a rewatch of the series and in the fourth episode, with
    Chick with xray eyeball that used to know Coulson? As she's leaving she asks "What did they DO to him?" to May, as if she had looked at him with the xray eye and saw something crazy. Which would be fascinating if it's related to whatever serum thing. Or his crazy brain surgery, but who knows.

    Also let me say, the early episodes are much more watchable when they are back to back and not spaced out.

    SniperGuy on
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    Sometimes, I make YouTube videos
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    Of course, now we know why they were so spaced out: so that the plot could line up with Cap2!

  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    Is there a legal way to watch the whole season again?

    Hulu+ only has 3 episodes up.

    PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    mxmarks wrote: »
    Is there a legal way to watch the whole season again?

    Hulu+ only has 3 episodes up.

    Buy it on iTunes.

    I sometimes post pretty pictures to twitter: https://twitter.com/matthewandworld
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    So I am getting multiple complaints about people sucking at spoilers in here. Fuck if I'm going to ruin the film for myself, so until I have a chance to see it, I'm just locking this down. If you want to discuss Cap2, start a dedicated thread for it. I will come back later and I will probably be throwing infractions at anybody who was particularly stupid and/or dickish about spoilers in here.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
This discussion has been closed.