"“The ultimate [act] that would be the taboo, to show how bad some villain is, was to have somebody being raped, you know?” he told me. “I don’t really think it matters. It’s the same as, like, a decapitation. It’s just a horrible act to show that somebody’s a bad guy.”"
I honestly hope that the Ward turn doesn't involve mind control/hypnosis.
In my mind, it makes him a much more interesting character if he's voluntarily acting as a Hydra mole, as opposed to being manipulated.
Eh, even if
It turns out he was brainwashed by Garrett, if it was semi-willingly, and especially if he goes whole hog, it could be an interesting turn. Kinda like Rhinox/Tankor from Beast Wars/Machines.
It's the sort of twist that was clearly thought about after episodes were made, because his actions and depictions while alone aren't the actions of a mole.
AoS spoilers
The writers have said in an interview that Ward was supposed to be the traitor from the beginning. They just didn't tell the actor until the filming of Yes Man.
Brett Dalton has mentioned in a nother interview that he thinks that was the right way to do it, as he wouldn't have been able to pace the revelations right. His body language would given away too much too early.
I agree that the result isn't that great either, because you got no hints at all. I blame Loeb.
I dunno..I mean if everyone Hydra has been this deep cover for so many years it would become second nature at a certian point wouldnt it? The way I see it most days you wouldnt even really be doing anything different than other Shield agents...there could be long stretches where as a sleeper you really forget that your arent just like everybody else. Theoretically most of the time 5 people tops are manipulating things day to day and need maybe another dozen or so to affect their master plan....everybody else is just being a shield agent and waiting until word comes down that it is go time
Hawkstone on
Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
+3
HawkstoneDon't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered Userregular
The preview seems to make it clear that (Cap 2 and latest AoS spoilers)
Ward was brainwashed to join Hydra. He's not "Sebastian Stan as Winter Soldier has haunted eyes rimmed with guyliner after catching the shield", but he does not look pleased with his life choices in that ending shot.
I didn't watch the preview, but ...
the first time I saw the episode, I interpreted the stinger in the same way.
Second viewing? not so much. He looked much more meditative then displeased, and the eye-flick looked more "psychopath" than "oh, what have I done?!"
edit: that said, it's reasonable for him to be brainwashed; Garrett pulls him aside for a moment on the plane to "catch him up", and might have done something to him then.
Loki's staff shows its victims something that makes them susceptible to his control.
Also, when Ward mentioned to Skye about the time she offered to talk to him, that was from the episode with the rage staff. Maybe it's something related to that too. They did say that the rage staff makes people see the darkest part of themselves.
I think my point is
Ward had that discussion with Skye ... when he thought that Hand was the clairvoyant
he was willing to reach out at that point
when he learned that Garrett was the clairvoyant, something changed.
Maybe that something was brainwashing kicking in
Maybe that something was the good guys setting up a long con
I don't know. But he went from wanting to have a drink with Skye to murdering Hand.
It's the sort of twist that was clearly thought about after episodes were made, because his actions and depictions while alone aren't the actions of a mole.
AoS spoilers
The writers have said in an interview that Ward was supposed to be the traitor from the beginning. They just didn't tell the actor until the filming of Yes Man.
Brett Dalton has mentioned in a nother interview that he thinks that was the right way to do it, as he wouldn't have been able to pace the revelations right. His body language would given away too much too early.
I agree that the result isn't that great either, because you got no hints at all. I blame Loeb.
I don't mind them not giving any hints at all for a turn, I just think it's not great writing to have completely opposite reactions that undermine the idea during the season.
Like, I would appreciate the show not having the camera linger on Ward smiling insidiously for ten episodes or whatever before he turns bad, but there was stuff before that he just wouldn't naturally do, alone.
Anyway, I'm fine with it whether or not he's a true traitor, I just think that while I can agree that not telling the actor isn't a terrible way to do things, when you do that you have to leave yourself some plausible deniability for the character to stay true to that turn.
Agents of SHIELD was really good, and I hope they have the guts to stick with some of the choices they made in this episode
I'm not sure what they're going to do, logistically. Like, having Ward stay bad and be for real bad would be a good choice, but it also sucks for that actor since he'd go from a series regular to someone who shows up to be evil and eventually must be gotten rid of.
In the same way, Paxton is a great villain, but it just means his tenure on the show is now limited, and I'd rather he be a main cast member who is making things interesting rather than a good villain who will eventually be ejected.
I want to like RLM so badly but I really fucking hate the in-character stuff they do
I have this weird thing with Plinkett
I think the voice is actually pretty funny, and a lot of the ticks of the character are great (not quite finishing a sentence before moving on, etc) but the serial killer part is suuuuch a drag it pulls me out
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I have that problem with both RLM and Film Critic Hulk. Essentially, I generally like and appreciate their perspective on things. But their presentation is so heinous that I can't be bothered.
Agents of SHIELD was really good, and I hope they have the guts to stick with some of the choices they made in this episode
I'm not sure what they're going to do, logistically. Like, having Ward stay bad and be for real bad would be a good choice, but it also sucks for that actor since he'd go from a series regular to someone who shows up to be evil and eventually must be gotten rid of.
In the same way, Paxton is a great villain, but it just means his tenure on the show is now limited, and I'd rather he be a main cast member who is making things interesting rather than a good villain who will eventually be ejected.
I guess I'd rather have them do things that made for a more interesting story than I would have them try to write a story to keep an actor on a show. And there are all kinds of ways to keep Ward around long term, even if he is 100% Hydra. And honestly? Ward's character to this point hasn't been doing that actor any favors. And the show isn't exactly setting the world on fire in the ratings, so, might as well go fucking nuts.
Also, Paxton was probably always on the show for a limited time only anyways. And he seems to be having a ton of fun with the heel turn.
I have that problem with both RLM and Film Critic Hulk. Essentially, I generally like and appreciate their perspective on things. But their presentation is so heinous that I can't be bothered.
Oh good lord Plinkett isn't nearly as unwatchable as Film Critic Hulk
I have that problem with both RLM and Film Critic Hulk. Essentially, I generally like and appreciate their perspective on things. But their presentation is so heinous that I can't be bothered.
Oh good lord Plinkett isn't nearly as unwatchable as Film Critic Hulk
I could probably watch a FCH review show. Maybe after having to read it a couple of times, he'd drop the schtick and write it proper.
EDIT: Also, I have the same problem reading FCH I do with the Firefly comics. I can't stand reading stuff like it but I have no problem listening to a person speak the same way.
like, not to be glib but you're saying he's worse than a character that rapes and murders
Yeah, like, I can understand the all-caps being mildly irritating; but the way people talk about FCH sometimes, it's like he's forcing their eyes open and putting a strobe light an inch away from their face.
It's very weird to me!
Especially since FCH has really, really interesting things to say.
+4
JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
It's the sort of twist that was clearly thought about after episodes were made, because his actions and depictions while alone aren't the actions of a mole.
AoS spoilers
The writers have said in an interview that Ward was supposed to be the traitor from the beginning. They just didn't tell the actor until the filming of Yes Man.
Brett Dalton has mentioned in a nother interview that he thinks that was the right way to do it, as he wouldn't have been able to pace the revelations right. His body language would given away too much too early.
I agree that the result isn't that great either, because you got no hints at all. I blame Loeb.
I don't mind them not giving any hints at all for a turn, I just think it's not great writing to have completely opposite reactions that undermine the idea during the season.
Like, I would appreciate the show not having the camera linger on Ward smiling insidiously for ten episodes or whatever before he turns bad, but there was stuff before that he just wouldn't naturally do, alone.
Anyway, I'm fine with it whether or not he's a true traitor, I just think that while I can agree that not telling the actor isn't a terrible way to do things, when you do that you have to leave yourself some plausible deniability for the character to stay true to that turn.
And so if you’d look at how he related to everyone — Coulson loves projects. Here is a guy who didn’t have people skills. So Garrett says, can you help this guy Ward round off some of the rough edges? So he comes onto the team. Coulson is now vested, because he’s got a project. Who is Ward’s greatest threat? May. What does he do? He seduces her. Who is the one unknown on the team? Skye. He becomes her S.O. How do you get everyone rally around and trust you? You jump out of a plan trying to save someone else. Now, he had a parachute. Let’s say he failed to save Simmons, he would’ve been fine. Everything he’s done has solidified how people feel about him over the course of the season.
And what was the next thing he had to do after he saved Simmons? He had someone on the plane who was jealous of him: Fitz. And what did they do? They went on a mission together and they had a really good time together. And a bromance was started. And that took care of that.
I think it's pretty clear that Ward was a mole from the get-go and is now conflicted because he has developed feelings for Skye.
And brainwashing could be part of it, but I really hope not.
It'd be cool if he stayed a Hydra agent even after Garrett inevitably dies, he could even stay a regular and we could get a peak at how Hydra operates. It'd be good for the show to have a recurring villain, his personal ties to the team would provide a more interesting dynamic than most villains, and I think the show would benefit from having someone be the face of Hydra for the team. And also I think Ward/Skye would be the blandest couple and Skye/Fitz would be a better angle.
Ward's conflicted about being a mole because he loves Skye. That would be the wooooorst, mostly because the Ward/Skye thing has been pretty awful so far
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Marvel is ruining comic books blank
Reminder Millar said this once:
"“The ultimate [act] that would be the taboo, to show how bad some villain is, was to have somebody being raped, you know?” he told me. “I don’t really think it matters. It’s the same as, like, a decapitation. It’s just a horrible act to show that somebody’s a bad guy.”"
this would be a lie of course, we'd never let any of them out
(also it's Kirkman, not Kirkland)
I saw the first one
What happened in the second?
I didn't want the OP to take up too much of the page, and I haven't seen a lot of discussion about it, so I decided to leave it out.
Though I keep up with this thread sporadically (at best), so that might've been an oversight.
In my mind, it makes him a much more interesting character if he's voluntarily acting as a Hydra mole, as opposed to being manipulated.
Eh, even if
His head is vaguely kkkish
Viagra
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I want to like RLM so badly but I really fucking hate the in-character stuff they do
Like, I would appreciate the show not having the camera linger on Ward smiling insidiously for ten episodes or whatever before he turns bad, but there was stuff before that he just wouldn't naturally do, alone.
Anyway, I'm fine with it whether or not he's a true traitor, I just think that while I can agree that not telling the actor isn't a terrible way to do things, when you do that you have to leave yourself some plausible deniability for the character to stay true to that turn.
In the same way, Paxton is a great villain, but it just means his tenure on the show is now limited, and I'd rather he be a main cast member who is making things interesting rather than a good villain who will eventually be ejected.
I have this weird thing with Plinkett
I think the voice is actually pretty funny, and a lot of the ticks of the character are great (not quite finishing a sentence before moving on, etc) but the serial killer part is suuuuch a drag it pulls me out
Also, Paxton was probably always on the show for a limited time only anyways. And he seems to be having a ton of fun with the heel turn.
Oh good lord Plinkett isn't nearly as unwatchable as Film Critic Hulk
like, not to be glib but you're saying he's worse than a character that rapes and murders
That's skippable
The only way to skip FCH's shtick is to not read it
I could probably watch a FCH review show. Maybe after having to read it a couple of times, he'd drop the schtick and write it proper.
EDIT: Also, I have the same problem reading FCH I do with the Firefly comics. I can't stand reading stuff like it but I have no problem listening to a person speak the same way.
Yeah, like, I can understand the all-caps being mildly irritating; but the way people talk about FCH sometimes, it's like he's forcing their eyes open and putting a strobe light an inch away from their face.
It's very weird to me!
Especially since FCH has really, really interesting things to say.
I don't want to brag (but I'm going to), but I figured it out on Monday after evaluating what had happened over the season and thinking about Cap 2.
I think it's pretty clear that Ward was a mole from the get-go and is now conflicted because he has developed feelings for Skye.
And brainwashing could be part of it, but I really hope not.
It'd be cool if he stayed a Hydra agent even after Garrett inevitably dies, he could even stay a regular and we could get a peak at how Hydra operates. It'd be good for the show to have a recurring villain, his personal ties to the team would provide a more interesting dynamic than most villains, and I think the show would benefit from having someone be the face of Hydra for the team. And also I think Ward/Skye would be the blandest couple and Skye/Fitz would be a better angle.