JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
Also wait, how can you say that the writers just came up with it and also acknowledge that everything the character has done all season has been building to this?
0
NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
Ward's conflicted about being a mole because he loves Skye. That would be the wooooorst, mostly because the Ward/Skye thing has been pretty awful so far
Yeah,
that would be terrible. In fact, if they do make Ward a willing villain then they shouldn't have him be conflicted or doubt himself at all. Hydra has been able to hide itself within SHIELD for 70 years, if they're that careful and secretive then there's no way they'd ever send in an agent who has any hints of doubt.
Agents of SHIELD was really good, and I hope they have the guts to stick with some of the choices they made in this episode
I'm not sure what they're going to do, logistically. Like, having Ward stay bad and be for real bad would be a good choice, but it also sucks for that actor since he'd go from a series regular to someone who shows up to be evil and eventually must be gotten rid of.
In the same way, Paxton is a great villain, but it just means his tenure on the show is now limited, and I'd rather he be a main cast member who is making things interesting rather than a good villain who will eventually be ejected.
nah, it's a Whedon show (and yes I know Joss isn't showrunner but his brother and sister in law are, and they've been working with him since dr horrible). If they want Ward to stick around they'll find a way. Think Spike in Buffy/Angel as a model.
Also wait, how can you say that the writers just came up with it and also acknowledge that everything the character has done all season has been building to this?
you can anticipate a story beat without thinking the story has earned it. If you watch enough procedural shows like this you can see story stuff coming from a mile away.
like
it was pretty obvious that paxton was going to be evil. it would have been an interesting choice for him to not be evil. There was no one on the team who was going to be a mole other than ward. Whether or not he earned that turn is debatable.
It was especially apparent in last week's episode when all the focus was on Mei. Mei was obviously innocent, but that meant that if there was going to be a mole, and the show was leaning hard on that, it would have to be Ward. Paxton was framed suspiciously and making pretty normal "this character is a traitor" moves from the moment he came on board. Hand was also pretty obviously either not the clairvoyant or not even hydra.
These sorts of shows have visual cues and story beats that aren't difficult to anticipate, it's the execution that matters.
AoS has been much, much better for the past few weeks, but that doesn't mean it's not following some pretty rote procedural story routes.
+1
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
you can c/p the text into a thing to make it go away
It's mostly grammar/sentence structure for me. Same with the Firefly character dialog.
I can deal with the all caps.
Yeah, that's a big part if it as well. And then there's a personal issue I have with the way they actually present their knowledge. (Which is, as far as I know, spot on. They clearly know more about film than I do)
Yeah I just skip over the live Plinkett bits and get back to the review because he does make incredibly salient points that would be better served without that crap.
I find the Half in the Bag/Best of the Worst stuff entertaining though. It's obvious they're just being stupid with the in-character stuff.
Also wait, how can you say that the writers just came up with it and also acknowledge that everything the character has done all season has been building to this?
you can anticipate a story beat without thinking the story has earned it. If you watch enough procedural shows like this you can see story stuff coming from a mile away.
like
it was pretty obvious that paxton was going to be evil. it would have been an interesting choice for him to not be evil. There was no one on the team who was going to be a mole other than ward. Whether or not he earned that turn is debatable.
It was especially apparent in last week's episode when all the focus was on Mei. Mei was obviously innocent, but that meant that if there was going to be a mole, and the show was leaning hard on that, it would have to be Ward. Paxton was framed suspiciously and making pretty normal "this character is a traitor" moves from the moment he came on board. Hand was also pretty obviously either not the clairvoyant or not even hydra.
These sorts of shows have visual cues and story beats that aren't difficult to anticipate, it's the execution that matters.
AoS has been much, much better for the past few weeks, but that doesn't mean it's not following some pretty rote procedural story routes.
It's "May". Same spelling as the month and the aunt.
Also wait, how can you say that the writers just came up with it and also acknowledge that everything the character has done all season has been building to this?
you can anticipate a story beat without thinking the story has earned it. If you watch enough procedural shows like this you can see story stuff coming from a mile away.
like
it was pretty obvious that paxton was going to be evil. it would have been an interesting choice for him to not be evil. There was no one on the team who was going to be a mole other than ward. Whether or not he earned that turn is debatable.
It was especially apparent in last week's episode when all the focus was on Mei. Mei was obviously innocent, but that meant that if there was going to be a mole, and the show was leaning hard on that, it would have to be Ward. Paxton was framed suspiciously and making pretty normal "this character is a traitor" moves from the moment he came on board. Hand was also pretty obviously either not the clairvoyant or not even hydra.
These sorts of shows have visual cues and story beats that aren't difficult to anticipate, it's the execution that matters.
AoS has been much, much better for the past few weeks, but that doesn't mean it's not following some pretty rote procedural story routes.
It's the sort of twist that was clearly thought about after episodes were made, because his actions and depictions while alone aren't the actions of a mole.
AoS spoilers
The writers have said in an interview that Ward was supposed to be the traitor from the beginning. They just didn't tell the actor until the filming of Yes Man.
Brett Dalton has mentioned in a nother interview that he thinks that was the right way to do it, as he wouldn't have been able to pace the revelations right. His body language would given away too much too early.
I agree that the result isn't that great either, because you got no hints at all. I blame Loeb.
I don't mind them not giving any hints at all for a turn, I just think it's not great writing to have completely opposite reactions that undermine the idea during the season.
Like, I would appreciate the show not having the camera linger on Ward smiling insidiously for ten episodes or whatever before he turns bad, but there was stuff before that he just wouldn't naturally do, alone.
Anyway, I'm fine with it whether or not he's a true traitor, I just think that while I can agree that not telling the actor isn't a terrible way to do things, when you do that you have to leave yourself some plausible deniability for the character to stay true to that turn.
Man, you are literally saying completely conflicting things here.
Is your complaint that it was not set up and was "thought about after the episodes were made" or is it super obvious and telegraphed?
I mean whether it's a good or a bad twist, I was just trying to say that the fact that it can be predicted based on events from the first half of the season means that it was set up intentionally and not something the writers just thought of a couple months ago. Your latter argument that the twist was something you could see from a mile away implies that it is supported by earlier events in the season, which is what you were originally arguing against and is the whole reason this back-and-forth even started.
the events of the season add up as hints, but the way Brett Dalton has been playing the character, even in scenes where the rest of the team isn't around, don't really support the twist, which is a consequence of him not knowing about it himself for most of the season
Also wait, how can you say that the writers just came up with it and also acknowledge that everything the character has done all season has been building to this?
you can anticipate a story beat without thinking the story has earned it. If you watch enough procedural shows like this you can see story stuff coming from a mile away.
like
it was pretty obvious that paxton was going to be evil. it would have been an interesting choice for him to not be evil. There was no one on the team who was going to be a mole other than ward. Whether or not he earned that turn is debatable.
It was especially apparent in last week's episode when all the focus was on Mei. Mei was obviously innocent, but that meant that if there was going to be a mole, and the show was leaning hard on that, it would have to be Ward. Paxton was framed suspiciously and making pretty normal "this character is a traitor" moves from the moment he came on board. Hand was also pretty obviously either not the clairvoyant or not even hydra.
These sorts of shows have visual cues and story beats that aren't difficult to anticipate, it's the execution that matters.
AoS has been much, much better for the past few weeks, but that doesn't mean it's not following some pretty rote procedural story routes.
It's the sort of twist that was clearly thought about after episodes were made, because his actions and depictions while alone aren't the actions of a mole.
AoS spoilers
The writers have said in an interview that Ward was supposed to be the traitor from the beginning. They just didn't tell the actor until the filming of Yes Man.
Brett Dalton has mentioned in a nother interview that he thinks that was the right way to do it, as he wouldn't have been able to pace the revelations right. His body language would given away too much too early.
I agree that the result isn't that great either, because you got no hints at all. I blame Loeb.
I don't mind them not giving any hints at all for a turn, I just think it's not great writing to have completely opposite reactions that undermine the idea during the season.
Like, I would appreciate the show not having the camera linger on Ward smiling insidiously for ten episodes or whatever before he turns bad, but there was stuff before that he just wouldn't naturally do, alone.
Anyway, I'm fine with it whether or not he's a true traitor, I just think that while I can agree that not telling the actor isn't a terrible way to do things, when you do that you have to leave yourself some plausible deniability for the character to stay true to that turn.
Man, you are literally saying completely conflicting things here.
Is your complaint that it was not set up and was "thought about after the episodes were made" or is it super obvious and telegraphed?
I mean whether it's a good or a bad twist, I was just trying to say that the fact that it can be predicted based on events from the first half of the season means that it was set up intentionally and not something the writers just thought of a couple months ago. Your latter argument that the twist was something you could see from a mile away implies that it is supported by earlier events in the season, which is what you were originally arguing against and is the whole reason this back-and-forth even started.
you are misunderstanding the difference between a character telegraphing a story beat, and simply anticipating a story beat because I've watched a thousand shows like this and I know how they generally work.
0
AtomicTofuShe's a straight-up supervillain, yoRegistered Userregular
Can't wait to see whatever Shalvey is cooking up for this issue of Moon Knight.
So I saw the Invincible thing on Scans Daily and honestly it was done as tastefully as possible. Still doesn't mean it should have happened but if nothing else it was an interesting reverse comics trope.
It seems like every critic I've listened to has hated captain america 2
Which is weird because Cap 1 was actually decently reviewed, and most people I know were just kinda OK on it
Now everybody loves this one and the critics seem like they hate it. Even the positive reviews are pretty middling
EDIT: Well, on rottentomatoes it's well-rated so I guess it's just all the critics I listen to
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
So I saw the Invincible thing on Scans Daily and honestly it was done as tastefully as possible. Still doesn't mean it should have happened but if nothing else it was an interesting reverse comics trope.
Literally an entire page of her raping him and then telling him to man up is not fucking tasteful
and rape isn't a trope! It is rape
+4
UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
So I saw the Invincible thing on Scans Daily and honestly it was done as tastefully as possible. Still doesn't mean it should have happened but if nothing else it was an interesting reverse comics trope.
while that might be true, "as tastefully as possible" is still really fucking dire
0
GreasyKidsStuffMOMMM!ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered Userregular
edited April 2014
I saw this last night. It was hella tight. Hella tight. It's gotten me pretty hyped up for Avengers 2.
I should really catch up on AoS, but I guess reading all the spoilers is doing an okay job of that.
I'm not going to go back to the other thread and reread pages and pages of spoilers but has anybody mentioned the possibility that *Cap 2/Avengers 2 spoilers*:
Ultron is going to have something to do with Project Insight? The entire time the movie was playing I kept thinking "Insight = Vision" and tried making a connection but I'm not sure how that would work.
So I saw the Invincible thing on Scans Daily and honestly it was done as tastefully as possible. Still doesn't mean it should have happened but if nothing else it was an interesting reverse comics trope.
Iron Fist wasn't bad, Danny is definitely angrier and angstier than usual but he still shined through near the end with some goofy dweeb behavior. Hopefully the series will being a little more of that up going forward.
Daredevil was great but jesus Bendis stop doing giant prose stories with still images of art they are annoying to read.
Shutter had an absolutely fantastic start and was probably my favorite book this week
ANXM had an insane murderer's row of artists but a super jarring shift in the middle and was basically a giant FUCK YOU to Hank McCoy who is one of my favorite X-Men so I ain't down with that
Iron Fist wasn't bad, Danny is definitely angrier and angstier than usual but he still shined through near the end with some goofy dweeb behavior. Hopefully the series will being a little more of that up going forward.
Daredevil was great but jesus Bendis stop doing giant prose stories with still images of art they are annoying to read.
Shutter had an absolutely fantastic start and was probably my favorite book this week
ANXM had an insane murderer's row of artists but a super jarring shift in the middle and was basically a giant FUCK YOU to Hank McCoy who is one of my favorite X-Men so I ain't down with that
Well the Amazons definitely seduced and killed various Greek dudes but I don't think it was rape?
The Amazons seduce and have sex with sailors every 30 years to get pregnant, then they kill the sailors and sell the male babies to Hephastus for weapons. It's a terrible idea and really hurts the whole series. I do wonder what they do with the gay sailors.
Well the whole issue is Hank being shown images of possible universes if he did or did not pluck the O5 from the timestream. Both good and bad.
The jarring shift is when it has all of these dark futures, then some good ones, and then a whole bunch of cartoonists(including the Jean and Scott guy from Tumblr) do goofy comedic strips and then there's a few more good ones
then it is revealed that the guy showing all of this to Hank is The Watcher and he straight up says "You disgust me." to Hank before leaving.
Posts
But I said it first!
Steam
It's mostly grammar/sentence structure for me. Same with the Firefly character dialog.
I can deal with the all caps.
Yeah,
you can anticipate a story beat without thinking the story has earned it. If you watch enough procedural shows like this you can see story stuff coming from a mile away.
like
It was especially apparent in last week's episode when all the focus was on Mei. Mei was obviously innocent, but that meant that if there was going to be a mole, and the show was leaning hard on that, it would have to be Ward. Paxton was framed suspiciously and making pretty normal "this character is a traitor" moves from the moment he came on board. Hand was also pretty obviously either not the clairvoyant or not even hydra.
These sorts of shows have visual cues and story beats that aren't difficult to anticipate, it's the execution that matters.
AoS has been much, much better for the past few weeks, but that doesn't mean it's not following some pretty rote procedural story routes.
Yeah, that's a big part if it as well. And then there's a personal issue I have with the way they actually present their knowledge. (Which is, as far as I know, spot on. They clearly know more about film than I do)
I find the Half in the Bag/Best of the Worst stuff entertaining though. It's obvious they're just being stupid with the in-character stuff.
"What was the plot of Catwoman?"
"I didn't see Catwoman." "Nobody saw Catwoman."
"Correct!"
Why I fear the ocean.
Man, you are literally saying completely conflicting things here.
Is your complaint that it was not set up and was "thought about after the episodes were made" or is it super obvious and telegraphed?
I mean whether it's a good or a bad twist, I was just trying to say that the fact that it can be predicted based on events from the first half of the season means that it was set up intentionally and not something the writers just thought of a couple months ago. Your latter argument that the twist was something you could see from a mile away implies that it is supported by earlier events in the season, which is what you were originally arguing against and is the whole reason this back-and-forth even started.
you are misunderstanding the difference between a character telegraphing a story beat, and simply anticipating a story beat because I've watched a thousand shows like this and I know how they generally work.
Steam
Dang
I mean it makes sense with the sliding timescale but weird to think that the MU is a post-millenial thing now
ROOOOOOBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTT
KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKMMMMMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNN
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSNNNNNNNNNNNNN'TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
KNOW HOW TO WRITE ANYMORE
Like the last genuinely good thing out of him I remember was the first 2/3rds of his Marvel Team-Up and that was like 10 years ago
unless this is already tread upon territory
Which is weird because Cap 1 was actually decently reviewed, and most people I know were just kinda OK on it
Now everybody loves this one and the critics seem like they hate it. Even the positive reviews are pretty middling
EDIT: Well, on rottentomatoes it's well-rated so I guess it's just all the critics I listen to
and rape isn't a trope! It is rape
while that might be true, "as tastefully as possible" is still really fucking dire
I should really catch up on AoS, but I guess reading all the spoilers is doing an okay job of that.
I'm not going to go back to the other thread and reread pages and pages of spoilers but has anybody mentioned the possibility that *Cap 2/Avengers 2 spoilers*:
These words don't go together this way
Which is a bummer but why the hell are they putting it up against NCIS and The Voice? Those are, like, two of the biggest shows on Network TV
Like the only time I hear about it anymore is in shitty fringe comics trying to be edgy
Iron Fist wasn't bad, Danny is definitely angrier and angstier than usual but he still shined through near the end with some goofy dweeb behavior. Hopefully the series will being a little more of that up going forward.
Daredevil was great but jesus Bendis stop doing giant prose stories with still images of art they are annoying to read.
Shutter had an absolutely fantastic start and was probably my favorite book this week
ANXM had an insane murderer's row of artists but a super jarring shift in the middle and was basically a giant FUCK YOU to Hank McCoy who is one of my favorite X-Men so I ain't down with that
I think 2 or 3 female heroes in DC New 52 have a rape in their backstory
What'd you think of Ultimates?
Steam
Nothing mind-blowing but I love the color palette and it seems like it'll be a perfectly solid teen team book
The Amazons seduce and have sex with sailors every 30 years to get pregnant, then they kill the sailors and sell the male babies to Hephastus for weapons. It's a terrible idea and really hurts the whole series. I do wonder what they do with the gay sailors.
The jarring shift is when it has all of these dark futures, then some good ones, and then a whole bunch of cartoonists(including the Jean and Scott guy from Tumblr) do goofy comedic strips and then there's a few more good ones
then it is revealed that the guy showing all of this to Hank is The Watcher and he straight up says "You disgust me." to Hank before leaving.