GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited July 2014
What the fuck is the IeSF championship, and what is the Finnish whatsamawhosit?
I am steeped in eSports, I regularly watch competitive LoL, SC2, Dota 2 and fighting games...I've never once heard of either of these organizations. I don't think either is representative of eSports (despite their fancy names).
I understand that a lot of you may only read about eSports when these populist anger fests pop up, but these people are nobodies. The "IeSF" or whatever the fuck they are, aren't anywhere near globally standardizing eSports, and even if that goal were to be met, it wouldn't be from some nobody organization no one's ever heard of. If one of the big players (ESL, Valve, DreamHack, Riot, Blizzard) didn't make and sanction the statement, it's hot air.
I have no doubt Blizzard, once they learn of this, will handle the situation. Arguably the best Zerg player in the world right now is transgender, and Blizzard has been super positive about that.
Yeah I've never heard of IeSF either (for a second I thought they were a French company, le SF. That's embarrassing). I've heard of ESF, but that's something completely different and doesn't do much of anything (especially recently).
IeSF is a Korean organization that basically wants to be the FIFA or NFL or whatever of eSports. They mostly operate in Europe and Asia which is why you have not heard of them.
IeSF is a Korean organization that basically wants to be the FIFA or NFL or whatever of eSports. They mostly operate in Europe and Asia which is why you have not heard of them.
No, I haven't heard of them because they run nothing major. They are a Korean eSports organization that isn't KeSPA and thus has zero hold on any of the major or semi-major games, they aren't one of the big names in fighting game tournaments so they don't even create people who might be contenders to show up at Evo respectably (and you can play a frankly sloppy Hulk on a gamepad and do well at Evo in (U)MvC3,, as evidenced by the fact an 8 year old kid did just that), and they've done zero interesting things until now.
I'm not saying this isn't bad, but it's disingenuous to say that a shitty C-string eSports organization that wants to topple Kespa is unknown because I don't live in the country. I wouldn't know about them if I were there, just like you probably don't know the name of your local roller derby organization. They're being shitty people, but I don't think that "eSports insanity" is the best description of this debacle.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
IeSF is a Korean organization that basically wants to be the FIFA or NFL or whatever of eSports. They mostly operate in Europe and Asia which is why you have not heard of them.
No, I haven't heard of them because they run nothing important and have no power. Most big eSports stuff happens in Europe and Asia.
They. Are. Nobodies. As @milski said, that doesn't make what they said any less ridiculous...but taking what one nobody organization that has no power, and runs no big tournaments, said and painting all of eSports with that brush is disingenuous and nothing but populist fervor. Their entire claim to fame is that they said a shitty thing and they have eSports in their name.
The linked article tosses out the word "legitimate" in terms of eSports wanting to be seen as legitimate sports .
What does that even mean? At what point do they become "legitimate"? What's the qualification in these peoples (or anyone else for that matter) for legitimacy? Seen as legitimate by who? Who's the judge?
Because I have no idea. I've never seen it defined. Obviously these people feel it's not legitimate now so what would it take?
Is legitimacy tied to viewership numbers? Or sponsor/ad revenue? Is the cutoff matching those numbers produced by Soccer/Baseball/Hockey/Whathaveyou? Because that's likely never going to happen so it's an insane goal.
Is it perhaps tied to the popularity of the format as a percentage of the over all "gamer" population? This feels more sensible, but then you have the issue of the nebulous definition of "gamer." How many more regular viewers are needed? How many more events? No one seems to know! They just know it's not there yet!
I posit that eSports (as well as things like Magic: The Gathering) are ALREADY legitimate. Massive tournaments are held featuring highly skilled players and viewed by a passionate fan base. Some players even make a living off of it! That there aren't highlights of Trump or Reid Duke on Sportscenter doesn't mean jack shit.
Not at all? I mean, it's still a stupid, but "The main event is men only, so a woman qualifying would cause conflict and thus we aren't allowing them in the qualifying tournament" is 100% divorced from "women are not allowed because people might get salty if they lose to a girl."
The two are not remotely similar. I also have no idea how the reason for and the justification for something can be different, but I would prefer to remain ignorant of that.
What the fuck is the IeSF championship, and what is the Finnish whatsamawhosit?
I am steeped in eSports, I regularly watch competitive LoL, SC2, Dota 2 and fighting games...I've never once heard of either of these organizations. I don't think either is representative of eSports (despite their fancy names).
#NotAlleSports
Kidding aside, I'm expecting Blizzard to bring the hammer down on these fools.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Anyone can give themselves a catchy name like the International eSports Federation, try to setup an event because they want to "legitimize" whatever, and then say something stupid and get press time.
eSports neither needs, or at this point in my eyes wants, IeSF's help to legitimize anything (I think a 10m prize pool for a Dota tournament is legitimate enough). They certainly don't speak for how I feel about inclusion in eSports, and I think they are getting far more press time than they ever deserved. I'm also fairly confident they don't speak for how Blizzard, Valve or Riot feel about inclusion in eSports.
It's not like they literally don't represent eSports at all. According to the Wikipedia page the organization has been running tournaments for years now. I'm not sure what it would be for an organization that calls itself an eSports organization and runs eSports tournaments not to be an eSports organization. Maybe it's one of the smaller ones or something but it's not like someone bought a Geocities domain and slapped up some misogynist stuff. In any case they've now gone back on the idea and their previous "male only" divisions are open to everyone.
The linked article tosses out the word "legitimate" in terms of eSports wanting to be seen as legitimate sports .
What does that even mean? At what point do they become "legitimate"? What's the qualification in these peoples (or anyone else for that matter) for legitimacy? Seen as legitimate by who? Who's the judge?
Because I have no idea. I've never seen it defined. Obviously these people feel it's not legitimate now so what would it take?
Is legitimacy tied to viewership numbers? Or sponsor/ad revenue? Is the cutoff matching those numbers produced by Soccer/Baseball/Hockey/Whathaveyou? Because that's likely never going to happen so it's an insane goal.
Is it perhaps tied to the popularity of the format as a percentage of the over all "gamer" population? This feels more sensible, but then you have the issue of the nebulous definition of "gamer." How many more regular viewers are needed? How many more events? No one seems to know! They just know it's not there yet!
I posit that eSports (as well as things like Magic: The Gathering) are ALREADY legitimate. Massive tournaments are held featuring highly skilled players and viewed by a passionate fan base. Some players even make a living off of it! That there aren't highlights of Trump or Reid Duke on Sportscenter doesn't mean jack shit.
(Likely unpopular opinion time)
I'm less likely to acknowledge something whose very medium can change so frequently at any given time as ever being a "true" sport - i.e. crappy programming, poor balance, or changing mechanics; while player skill is of course a large factor in winning a competition, it becomes less able for viewers to tell to what extent imbalances or differences in the game itself at the time contributed to their victory/defeat compared to the legitimate skill of the players. And these are particularly exasperating because they cannot simply be resolved by just "practicing more" or "getting more fit"; they're forces fundamentally influencing the outcome of the game that an entirely external party was responsible for(the developers).
That fact that this story was plasted to every gaming news site on the internet and people were notifying all the sponsors probably helped.
Yay for positive change! OP updated with a note about the reversal!
Blizzard has been in contact with the organization about the segregation imposed upon tournaments of its card game Hearthstone and understood that it updated the rules "to make it clear that their Hearthstone tournament will be open to all players."
"One of our goals with eSports is to ensure that there's a vibrant and also inclusive community around our games," Blizzard said in a statement provided to Polygon. "We do not allow the use of our games in tournaments that do not support this, and are working with our partners to ensure they share the same goal."
The cynic in me kinda wonders if there wasn't some sort of...hope that this story would get picked up and go viral. People (like me) who had no knowledge of the existence of this organization now know of it. It's gotten itself into the discussion of eSports.
The whole "Any press is good press" maxim keeps popping up in my head.
Did anyone think that this would have flown for even a day once it was wider known? Blizzard itself would have come down like a ton of Taurens if they'd tried to keep to their guns.
I hate that I've gotten to that point, that the entire drama around this seems too damn predictable. Dumb Ass Policy -> Internet Reaction -> Company Retraction -> People know they exist.
MLG, ESL, Dreamhack and others plus various smaller organizers that do only one game but still do big prizes with 10-100k viewers on stream. Those matter.
This isn't a publicity stunt, it's some stupid Korean org like Kespa with government like bureaucracy and inertia.
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I am steeped in eSports, I regularly watch competitive LoL, SC2, Dota 2 and fighting games...I've never once heard of either of these organizations. I don't think either is representative of eSports (despite their fancy names).
I understand that a lot of you may only read about eSports when these populist anger fests pop up, but these people are nobodies. The "IeSF" or whatever the fuck they are, aren't anywhere near globally standardizing eSports, and even if that goal were to be met, it wouldn't be from some nobody organization no one's ever heard of. If one of the big players (ESL, Valve, DreamHack, Riot, Blizzard) didn't make and sanction the statement, it's hot air.
I have no doubt Blizzard, once they learn of this, will handle the situation. Arguably the best Zerg player in the world right now is transgender, and Blizzard has been super positive about that.
No, I haven't heard of them because they run nothing major. They are a Korean eSports organization that isn't KeSPA and thus has zero hold on any of the major or semi-major games, they aren't one of the big names in fighting game tournaments so they don't even create people who might be contenders to show up at Evo respectably (and you can play a frankly sloppy Hulk on a gamepad and do well at Evo in (U)MvC3,, as evidenced by the fact an 8 year old kid did just that), and they've done zero interesting things until now.
I'm not saying this isn't bad, but it's disingenuous to say that a shitty C-string eSports organization that wants to topple Kespa is unknown because I don't live in the country. I wouldn't know about them if I were there, just like you probably don't know the name of your local roller derby organization. They're being shitty people, but I don't think that "eSports insanity" is the best description of this debacle.
No, I haven't heard of them because they run nothing important and have no power. Most big eSports stuff happens in Europe and Asia.
They. Are. Nobodies. As @milski said, that doesn't make what they said any less ridiculous...but taking what one nobody organization that has no power, and runs no big tournaments, said and painting all of eSports with that brush is disingenuous and nothing but populist fervor. Their entire claim to fame is that they said a shitty thing and they have eSports in their name.
Just a disclaimer so I'm not responsible for any resulting medical emergencies.
The linked article tosses out the word "legitimate" in terms of eSports wanting to be seen as legitimate sports .
What does that even mean? At what point do they become "legitimate"? What's the qualification in these peoples (or anyone else for that matter) for legitimacy? Seen as legitimate by who? Who's the judge?
Because I have no idea. I've never seen it defined. Obviously these people feel it's not legitimate now so what would it take?
Is legitimacy tied to viewership numbers? Or sponsor/ad revenue? Is the cutoff matching those numbers produced by Soccer/Baseball/Hockey/Whathaveyou? Because that's likely never going to happen so it's an insane goal.
Is it perhaps tied to the popularity of the format as a percentage of the over all "gamer" population? This feels more sensible, but then you have the issue of the nebulous definition of "gamer." How many more regular viewers are needed? How many more events? No one seems to know! They just know it's not there yet!
I posit that eSports (as well as things like Magic: The Gathering) are ALREADY legitimate. Massive tournaments are held featuring highly skilled players and viewed by a passionate fan base. Some players even make a living off of it! That there aren't highlights of Trump or Reid Duke on Sportscenter doesn't mean jack shit.
I dunno, it seems to mostly fit. That said, it's the reason for the decision, which is different from it being the justification for it.
The two are not remotely similar. I also have no idea how the reason for and the justification for something can be different, but I would prefer to remain ignorant of that.
Kidding aside, I'm expecting Blizzard to bring the hammer down on these fools.
eSports neither needs, or at this point in my eyes wants, IeSF's help to legitimize anything (I think a 10m prize pool for a Dota tournament is legitimate enough). They certainly don't speak for how I feel about inclusion in eSports, and I think they are getting far more press time than they ever deserved. I'm also fairly confident they don't speak for how Blizzard, Valve or Riot feel about inclusion in eSports.
http://golftips.golfsmith.com/lpga-women-played-pga-tour-20647.html
Boobs scare people.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
Breasts are inappropriate for children.
(Likely unpopular opinion time)
I'm less likely to acknowledge something whose very medium can change so frequently at any given time as ever being a "true" sport - i.e. crappy programming, poor balance, or changing mechanics; while player skill is of course a large factor in winning a competition, it becomes less able for viewers to tell to what extent imbalances or differences in the game itself at the time contributed to their victory/defeat compared to the legitimate skill of the players. And these are particularly exasperating because they cannot simply be resolved by just "practicing more" or "getting more fit"; they're forces fundamentally influencing the outcome of the game that an entirely external party was responsible for(the developers).
That fact that this story was plasted to every gaming news site on the internet and people were notifying all the sponsors probably helped.
Yay for positive change! OP updated with a note about the reversal!
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
worried that a girl would someday be better than boys at videogames or something?
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
The whole "Any press is good press" maxim keeps popping up in my head.
Did anyone think that this would have flown for even a day once it was wider known? Blizzard itself would have come down like a ton of Taurens if they'd tried to keep to their guns.
I hate that I've gotten to that point, that the entire drama around this seems too damn predictable. Dumb Ass Policy -> Internet Reaction -> Company Retraction -> People know they exist.
MLG, ESL, Dreamhack and others plus various smaller organizers that do only one game but still do big prizes with 10-100k viewers on stream. Those matter.
This isn't a publicity stunt, it's some stupid Korean org like Kespa with government like bureaucracy and inertia.