That's not actually historically accurate, y'know. It never actually happened.
The reality isn't so far off.
During the entire war the soviet army used so called "anti-retreat units".
Usually these units were deployed further back to prevent desertion and consisted primarily of NKVD (commissar detachments) and SMERSH (counter-espionage units. The primary job of SMERSH units were to catch german infiltrators, but they functioned as anti-desertion units as well), but following Stalins Stavka Directive 227 barrier troops (detachments from regular rifle regiments under the command of NKVD) were deployed on the southwestern front (which included Stalingrad) to prevent any retreat by any means possible up to and including shooting units that retreated without being ordered to do so.
Excerpt;
b) Form within the limits of each army 3 to 5 well-armed defensive squads (up to 200 persons in each), and put them directly behind unstable divisions and require them in case of panic and scattered withdrawals of elements of the divisions to shoot in place panic-mongers and cowards and thus help the honest soldiers of the division execute their duty to the Motherland
Directive 227 though was only in place for 3 months until it was countermanded, both due its detrimental effect on morale but the lack of enforcement from frontline commanders. There was only one documented case where a barrier regiment actually shot at retreating troops, when several regiments defending the Don river routed and were forced back by Barrier troop companies. Never actually happened in Stalingrad (that we know of) and they didn't use machineguns either (which were in short supply). In general the mere presence of barrier troops was sufficient to prevent an unauthorised retreat.
P.S: Note though that NKVD anti-retreat units generally weren't as terrible as they've been depicted. Only about 1% of the troops (something like 700k over the course of the war) detained by NKVD were ever sentenced to death. An almost equally small amount were transferred to penal units. The vast majority were simply returned to their regiments.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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Mego Thor"I say thee...NAY!"Registered Userregular
If you're not reading "Execute Directive 227" in Emperor Palpatine's voice, you're doing it wrong.
I think I finally understood why I like the Cain novels as a true representation of the 40k universe.
See... everyone in this universe (humans, anyway) are part of a government which sanctions fanaticism. The right kind, at any rate. And there are always people who buy into a religion and go full bore. To survive such a place, you have to either fit in, or you never go anywhere in life. Perhaps, by being the person he is, Cain just kept faking it until he became as successful he is.
That would also explain the Sister who smokes cigars and plays cards. Perhaps she is another example of this as well. And why she and Cain got along.
Nah, it's just a society where everyone expects fanaticism, so that's what they see. They love the stories of heroes, so when they see the guy who dresses the part and seems to play the part, they just accept it.
Except the fanatics, they don't accept anything that their churches don't tell them.
Dedwrekka on
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Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
And you had to pick one of the bond villains that has never been a part of S.M.E.R.S.H. (as Blofeld was the leader of SPECTRE)...
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
Just caught up with this thread. man, people keep trying to make the Tau more evil. I love my Tau as is. Originally, when I was really young I liked them because I did not like playing as "bad guys". Now, I love them because of shooty mechs.
But, you don't need to drag the Tau down to the 40K level of evil. Yes, they are "good" for 40K, but any other setting (Mass Effect, Star Trek, Star Wars) they would be an evil empire. That, to me, is awesome. How effed up is the 40k universe? The mind controlled alien race that will allow humans to live as second class citizens with little to no freedom and willing to justify and sacrifice almost anything for the Greater Good are somehow the nicest place to live.
Also, the Leman Russ is ugly an I wish the IG or whatever they are now would get a new tank.
This whole post is going to get me in trouble with the Inquisition.
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
Just caught up with this thread. man, people keep trying to make the Tau more evil. I love my Tau as is. Originally, when I was really young I liked them because I did not like playing as "bad guys". Now, I love them because of shooty mechs.
But, you don't need to drag the Tau down to the 40K level of evil. Yes, they are "good" for 40K, but any other setting (Mass Effect, Star Trek, Star Wars) they would be an evil empire. That, to me, is awesome. How effed up is the 40k universe? The mind controlled alien race that will allow humans to live as second class citizens with little to no freedom and willing to justify and sacrifice almost anything for the Greater Good are somehow the nicest place to live.
Also, the Leman Russ is ugly an I wish the IG or whatever they are now would get a new tank.
This whole post is going to get me in trouble with the Inquisition.
Come along, citizen.
We will discover many truths.
(Also, finally played Retribution, and MAN. Castor is a boss. Every other campaign the bit on Typhon is "Shit. Maybe we shouldn't have murdered all those Eldar." Castor? All part of the plan. Which he can calmly explain with a plasma gun pointed at his head. He may seem like a candidate for Upperclass Twit of the Year, but anyone who takes him lightly on that basis is going to be dead in a hurry.)
I was talking about the poor models in tabletop (as in all the pointless objectification of women that goes on there. Like literally you can buy some scantly clad women in the Dark Eldar section that serve as objectives off Games Workshop site. WTF!) rather than the game. The game was very pretty.
I think the Sister's of Battle need some new models. I think its odd how they're all clones of one another.
Also we hyped about the MMO trailer? I don't like Dark Angels but it hopefully it will be good.
It is! Cool. But the guy being interviewed said it probably wouldn't have been as popular, which is true but saddens me greatly.
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Mego Thor"I say thee...NAY!"Registered Userregular
I don't see why it wouldn't have been. Same great game but instead of WoW's generic, dull backstory, it would have Warhammer's awesome backstory.
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
Limiting it to only Britanna and Orcs when the real fun is playing/building different armies?
"Oh hey Warhammer! Oh, it's only two armies and I only play <Chaos/Skaven/Wood Elves/Dwarves/etc>"
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
You know, for 40K I like the (HEAVY sarcasm quote) ''''''good'''''' factions best, but for fantasy?
Skaven all the way. They're just such fun. Pure evil, backstabbing sociopathy. Their champion is a total failure who only survives because their (incredibly evil) god thinks he's a hoot and a half.
I don't see why it wouldn't have been. Same great game but instead of WoW's generic, dull backstory, it would have Warhammer's awesome backstory.
Games Workshop would have found a way to ruin it.
I once met a guy who started a film production company specifically to make a 40k movie
they went so far as to get a license and then encountered nothing but roadblocks in the form of GW basically vetoing all of their story ideas without ever giving any reason why
it was basically, "well here's what we want to do..."
"nah you can't do that"
"okay well what can we do then"
"just keep working on it and then come back to us when you've got more and we'll tell you if it's okay"
"...."
basically, GW doesn't really understand what they even have with their IP
last I heard he was still trying to make it happen but I'm not holding my breath
I mean don't get me wrong I think Blizzard doesn't know what the hell to do with its IP either from a story standpoint
Games Workshop has at least been consistently good in more or less the same exact way for years. It's as stagnant as the 40k universe itself, but it's still Warhammer.
Blizzard was good at manuals and small, relatively brief story scenes alongside gameplay. Once. Now it's active garbage more often than not. A couple of shining gems in there, but there is no consistency.
I do think though that Blizzard does pretty excellent gameplay and that Games Workshop would absolutely want to have more input on that side on things than they should. It would've likely ruined the game.
Though to be fair, given the wide range of Warhammer game types, maybe Games Workshops finds video games completely incomprehensible and only cares about the plotting.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
warhammer online was rad and fun for a long time but then just, no expansions ever no new content everyone had all the classes maxed and it was just end game city sieges or if bored of that, using a lvl12 free account character for newbie battles in the starter zones
+1
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
after the release of choppas and before they fucked up the energy system on the first july of their release, WAR was perfect. Basically, you had enough energy to fight three or four people one right after the other, the *limiter* to how awesome you fought was your class mechanic. basically, you used your class mechanic to rev up to being a super killy machine, but there was risk in how you used your mechanic:
choppas took more damage, but dealt obscene damage
red mages did the same thing, but risked nuking themselves
priests of sigmar and the blood elf needed to be in the thick of combat to truly ignite their abilities.
I liked it, there was definite risk/reward in how long you stayed in combat, and it compounded on the fact that people recognized you were a juggernaut and wanted you dead.
Then they changed all the energy mechanics so that you'd exhaust yourself right when you'd start going to town on multiple people, along with pushing out all those extra servers.
My problem with Warhammer Online is they only had the two cities. There was clearly the intent for the others but they just never happened.
they expected a much larger influx of players that would necessitate the extra cities
those never came, and so development work on them stopped
I bought the collector's version on the cheap when the game was still operational; it comes with a (wonderfully detailed) concept art book that showed what they would have looked like
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
My problem with Warhammer Online is they only had the two cities. There was clearly the intent for the others but they just never happened.
they expected a much larger influx of players that would necessitate the extra cities
those never came, and so development work on them stopped
I bought the collector's version on the cheap when the game was still operational; it comes with a (wonderfully detailed) concept art book that showed what they would have looked like
Gorgeous model of the orc warboss and his shaman, too
I don't see why it wouldn't have been. Same great game but instead of WoW's generic, dull backstory, it would have Warhammer's awesome backstory.
Games Workshop would have found a way to ruin it.
Well, lets put it this way. Blizzard brought on Andy Chambers (once one of the big guys at GW) to StarCraft II to partially to oversee the process of splitting the game into multiple parts to sell multiple copies of the same game but with different features. They basically hired a dude from GW because they saw the Codex system as a great idea.
Dedwrekka on
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Psychotic OneThe Lord of No PantsParts UnknownRegistered Userregular
after the release of choppas and before they fucked up the energy system on the first july of their release, WAR was perfect. Basically, you had enough energy to fight three or four people one right after the other, the *limiter* to how awesome you fought was your class mechanic. basically, you used your class mechanic to rev up to being a super killy machine, but there was risk in how you used your mechanic:
choppas took more damage, but dealt obscene damage
red mages did the same thing, but risked nuking themselves
priests of sigmar and the blood elf needed to be in the thick of combat to truly ignite their abilities.
I liked it, there was definite risk/reward in how long you stayed in combat, and it compounded on the fact that people recognized you were a juggernaut and wanted you dead.
Then they changed all the energy mechanics so that you'd exhaust yourself right when you'd start going to town on multiple people, along with pushing out all those extra servers.
Oh well... it was a good game in its time.
My squig hunter was the pest of all assaults or defends. Squigs diving over walls and Rain of arrows and banner slams (I was the banner bearer for our team) to disorient assaults.
So I created the "SE++ Space Marine John Tearers" group on steam for organizing Space Marine games, DoW games, and so on. It's invite only, so friend me or any other member of the group (which is just @Sir Headless VII at the moment). Okay, now the thread can go back into dormancy until EC comes out.
Posts
The reality isn't so far off.
During the entire war the soviet army used so called "anti-retreat units".
Usually these units were deployed further back to prevent desertion and consisted primarily of NKVD (commissar detachments) and SMERSH (counter-espionage units. The primary job of SMERSH units were to catch german infiltrators, but they functioned as anti-desertion units as well), but following Stalins Stavka Directive 227 barrier troops (detachments from regular rifle regiments under the command of NKVD) were deployed on the southwestern front (which included Stalingrad) to prevent any retreat by any means possible up to and including shooting units that retreated without being ordered to do so.
Excerpt;
Directive 227 though was only in place for 3 months until it was countermanded, both due its detrimental effect on morale but the lack of enforcement from frontline commanders. There was only one documented case where a barrier regiment actually shot at retreating troops, when several regiments defending the Don river routed and were forced back by Barrier troop companies. Never actually happened in Stalingrad (that we know of) and they didn't use machineguns either (which were in short supply). In general the mere presence of barrier troops was sufficient to prevent an unauthorised retreat.
P.S: Note though that NKVD anti-retreat units generally weren't as terrible as they've been depicted. Only about 1% of the troops (something like 700k over the course of the war) detained by NKVD were ever sentenced to death. An almost equally small amount were transferred to penal units. The vast majority were simply returned to their regiments.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Also, I want to play with you big lumps. I'd get utterly crushed, but fun.
Nah, it's just a society where everyone expects fanaticism, so that's what they see. They love the stories of heroes, so when they see the guy who dresses the part and seems to play the part, they just accept it.
Except the fanatics, they don't accept anything that their churches don't tell them.
I thought the primary job of the minions of S.M.E.R.S.H. was to KILL JAMES BOND
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
But, you don't need to drag the Tau down to the 40K level of evil. Yes, they are "good" for 40K, but any other setting (Mass Effect, Star Trek, Star Wars) they would be an evil empire. That, to me, is awesome. How effed up is the 40k universe? The mind controlled alien race that will allow humans to live as second class citizens with little to no freedom and willing to justify and sacrifice almost anything for the Greater Good are somehow the nicest place to live.
Also, the Leman Russ is ugly an I wish the IG or whatever they are now would get a new tank.
Come along, citizen.
We will discover many truths.
(Also, finally played Retribution, and MAN. Castor is a boss. Every other campaign the bit on Typhon is "Shit. Maybe we shouldn't have murdered all those Eldar." Castor? All part of the plan. Which he can calmly explain with a plasma gun pointed at his head. He may seem like a candidate for Upperclass Twit of the Year, but anyone who takes him lightly on that basis is going to be dead in a hurry.)
Why I fear the ocean.
Like, Lieutenant Mira? Thats how you do a female solider, video games.
Here's the finished squad. Sorry about the crappy pics, but I tried.
Heresies, Space MERHHEEEEEN was gorgeous.
I really want a sequel to Space Marine, but focused on the Sister's of Battle.
I WANT TO BE A LIVING SAINT. WHY WON'T THEY LET ME BE A LIVING SAINT.
This is why I can't go all in on the Warhammer 40k MMO just yet. I NEEDS MAH SISTER'S OF BATTLE.
I think the Sister's of Battle need some new models. I think its odd how they're all clones of one another.
Also we hyped about the MMO trailer? I don't like Dark Angels but it hopefully it will be good.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Why I fear the ocean.
"Oh hey Warhammer! Oh, it's only two armies and I only play <Chaos/Skaven/Wood Elves/Dwarves/etc>"
Skaven all the way. They're just such fun. Pure evil, backstabbing sociopathy. Their champion is a total failure who only survives because their (incredibly evil) god thinks he's a hoot and a half.
Why I fear the ocean.
Fantasy: Beastmen, Lizardmen, Tomb Kings
40k: Imperium, Tau, Nids
good ol' giant monsters
Not enough going insane from fear and/or chaos.
Why I fear the ocean.
Games Workshop would have found a way to ruin it.
I once met a guy who started a film production company specifically to make a 40k movie
they went so far as to get a license and then encountered nothing but roadblocks in the form of GW basically vetoing all of their story ideas without ever giving any reason why
it was basically, "well here's what we want to do..."
"nah you can't do that"
"okay well what can we do then"
"just keep working on it and then come back to us when you've got more and we'll tell you if it's okay"
"...."
basically, GW doesn't really understand what they even have with their IP
last I heard he was still trying to make it happen but I'm not holding my breath
Games Workshop has at least been consistently good in more or less the same exact way for years. It's as stagnant as the 40k universe itself, but it's still Warhammer.
Blizzard was good at manuals and small, relatively brief story scenes alongside gameplay. Once. Now it's active garbage more often than not. A couple of shining gems in there, but there is no consistency.
I do think though that Blizzard does pretty excellent gameplay and that Games Workshop would absolutely want to have more input on that side on things than they should. It would've likely ruined the game.
Though to be fair, given the wide range of Warhammer game types, maybe Games Workshops finds video games completely incomprehensible and only cares about the plotting.
-direct quote from the EA boardroom meeting when they made the decision to close down the Warhammer online servers.
choppas took more damage, but dealt obscene damage
red mages did the same thing, but risked nuking themselves
priests of sigmar and the blood elf needed to be in the thick of combat to truly ignite their abilities.
I liked it, there was definite risk/reward in how long you stayed in combat, and it compounded on the fact that people recognized you were a juggernaut and wanted you dead.
Then they changed all the energy mechanics so that you'd exhaust yourself right when you'd start going to town on multiple people, along with pushing out all those extra servers.
Oh well... it was a good game in its time.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Mix equal parts Ciaphas Cain and Groundhog Day, shake well and pour over ice. Voila!
they expected a much larger influx of players that would necessitate the extra cities
those never came, and so development work on them stopped
I bought the collector's version on the cheap when the game was still operational; it comes with a (wonderfully detailed) concept art book that showed what they would have looked like
See, I have had no interest in watching this movie until now.
Gorgeous model of the orc warboss and his shaman, too
Honestly, not enough of that in 40k for my liking either.
Well, lets put it this way. Blizzard brought on Andy Chambers (once one of the big guys at GW) to StarCraft II to partially to oversee the process of splitting the game into multiple parts to sell multiple copies of the same game but with different features. They basically hired a dude from GW because they saw the Codex system as a great idea.
My squig hunter was the pest of all assaults or defends. Squigs diving over walls and Rain of arrows and banner slams (I was the banner bearer for our team) to disorient assaults.