I get _j_'s point but I'm more concerned that the appointment of Johnson has done such a good job at diffusing the situation that we're going to lose track of the goal of the protests.
Ummmm... guys? You may want to look at what's going on in the sympathetic protest in New York.
Basically, the protestors have been collared by the NYPD, let out a few at a time, and then being arrested.
Great I see we've learned absolutely nothing from this
Now all we need is the LAPD to gun down some motorists because they were driving a car that looked vaguely like Michael Brown's car (ie, a car)
is kettling now an unacceptable response to large protests, because that definitely wasn't the tenor in yesterday's brief spiel of remarks on riot policing in [chat]
Kettling is an approach to policing protests that seems to exist mostly so that police can feel comfortable and up their numbers rather than in the pursuit of preventing any negative action on the part of protestors.
there's some degree of revisionism here, one that makes the argument go off course
the 1999 WTO protests marked the revival of illegalist direct action tactics during mass protests in the US (it reappeared about two decades earlier in Western Europe). these tactics were themselves evolved in response to the very same kind of police tactics that the article goes on to praise - namely, peaceful mostly-cooperative eviction - that direct action activists came to see as representative of the corruption/weakness of protesters dedicated to passive resistance (i.e. the kind of protesters that focus on making it easier for themselves to be injured, e.g., by stuffing their limbs into pipes, that sort of thing. Remember those?).
if you have protesters who are dedicated to direct action, then Salt-Lake-City style eviction described in the article is weak; the whole point of the tactic is to prevent such evictions from being successful at dismantling protest sites, and forcing a physical confrontation with the police
it's been more than a decade since 1999 and, at least in the US, swaggering rhetoric about the power of direct action against the state has largely shifted from the left to the right. Occupy went through a period of angst where its leading organisers took pains to publicly denounce direct action. It was always dubious to convince oneself that one can out-bomb the riot police, so some evolution in attitudes is to be expected. But the important point is that there is no one universally-applicable way for police to respond to protests - rather, it is a continually shifting landscape of police tactics against protester tactics. There are scenarios where rolling in the armoured trucks is sensible - e.g., when the use of molotov cocktails and opportunistic attacks on despised local enemies has become institutionalized amongst protesters. It is hard to envision a scenario where a Belfast protest will turn out better with fewer armoured officers and cars.
how can the police keep up with what protesters intend to do? well, this is the bit where 'engagement with the community' and a deeper empathy with the discontented comes into play. That doesn't mean agreement - to bring up Belfast as an example again, one doesn't have to agree to sense that what loyalists want is a right to march through republican neighbourhoods and vice versa, to predictable results (and that the answer should be a continual denial of this desire). But there must be some sense of the scope of the dispute.
Ummmm... guys? You may want to look at what's going on in the sympathetic protest in New York.
Basically, the protestors have been collared by the NYPD, let out a few at a time, and then being arrested.
Great I see we've learned absolutely nothing from this
Now all we need is the LAPD to gun down some motorists because they were driving a car that looked vaguely like Michael Brown's car (ie, a car)
is kettling now an unacceptable response to large protests, because that definitely wasn't the tenor in yesterday's brief spiel of remarks on riot policing in [chat]
Kettling is an approach to policing protests that seems to exist mostly so that police can feel comfortable and up their numbers rather than in the pursuit of preventing any negative action on the part of protestors.
it is a direct answer to the tactic of smashing things and then vanishing into a fast-moving crowd, by making the crowd not fast moving at all, to put it simply
things are still smashed but in a much smaller area
Edit: They've released details of a forced robbery that took place before the shooting, of which he was on the scene. The police department isn't explicitely linking the two, but it appears the narrative is that of being mistaken for the one who commited the robbery.
VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I think you are probably reading that situation wrong, @_J_
I get where you're coming from, but I think the change in the tone of reporting is because of how much of a 180 this situation turned once they brought in police weren't treating the civilian population like enemy combatants in a military zone.
+1
VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Ferguson is also apparently the place where a man arrested in a case of mistaken identity was charged with property damage for getting blood on a police officer's shirt.
Heads up - friends in news said the live stream of that presser was insane before most networks covered it. On Mic about 40 before the presser you can hear his assistant saying "no no we can't move it everyone is here."
Among other things indicating this chief was stalling like crazy. I'm sure the video will leak at some point.
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
+1
CrayonSleeps in the wrong bed.TejasRegistered Userregular
edited August 2014
I thought bad cop, good cop was only in the movies yet local police and state police seem to be doing a fine job of reenacting it. That plus they escalated the situation to the boiling point and it's now simmering down to, you know, give folks some semblance that they won. I believe that's called a pyrrhic victory right there.
Crayon on
+2
VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Ummmm... guys? You may want to look at what's going on in the sympathetic protest in New York.
Basically, the protestors have been collared by the NYPD, let out a few at a time, and then being arrested.
Great I see we've learned absolutely nothing from this
Now all we need is the LAPD to gun down some motorists because they were driving a car that looked vaguely like Michael Brown's car (ie, a car)
is kettling now an unacceptable response to large protests, because that definitely wasn't the tenor in yesterday's brief spiel of remarks on riot policing in [chat]
Kettling is an approach to policing protests that seems to exist mostly so that police can feel comfortable and up their numbers rather than in the pursuit of preventing any negative action on the part of protestors.
it is a direct answer to the tactic of smashing things and then vanishing into a fast-moving crowd, by making the crowd not fast moving at all, to put it simply
things are still smashed but in a much smaller area
kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
it's interesting comparing sources of reporting on this story between the typical media outlets, here, and something like drudge. Drudge would have you believe that an afro-islamic offshoot of the black panthers — that are specifically displeased with obama — have taken over parts of the city.
it's interesting comparing sources of reporting on this story between the typical media outlets, here, and something like drudge. Drudge would have you believe that an afro-islamic offshoot of the black panthers — that are specifically displeased with obama — have taken over parts of the city.
if you dig through papers from the 1960s and 1970s directly covering the CRM, such fear and misinformation seems typical (the keyword is "communists", though)
it is only after the fact that everyone pretends that they totally didn't believe all that stuff
A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with such a devastating cost that it is tantamount to defeat.
So, no?
Yes? If nothing comes of this except "the state police sure are nice" and everyone walks away without anything coming of it then it most certainly is.
If everyone walks away without anything coming of it it's not a victory. It's a defeat. If people walk away with nothing coming of it except the idle thought that the state police sure are nice then it would be 'cold comfort', or a 'silver lining'.
CrayonSleeps in the wrong bed.TejasRegistered Userregular
Ugh. That's what I'm saying. It seems I may have used the wrong word, that there's the belief of victory yet they lost more and gained nothing. That seems to fit the definition, but this seems to be semantics anyhow, or me just being a dummy dumb.
racial policy reform was probably not going to happen in ferguson anyway, in part because a mostly white national media wrote its own pet issue of police militarization into it
0
GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
Ferguson PD has handed out a sunshine packet that names Darren Wilson as the shooting officer (a name that was directly denied earlier on). It paints a narrative of Brown swiping a box of cigars from a convenience store in a strongarm robbery. There are also some rather unclear surveillance pictures that nobody, at least in the media, are able to tell if it's even Brown or not. All they have is Brown 'fitting the description'.
Not part of the packet: any report whatsoever from Wilson or any narrative of the shooting. Or the use of force report that was asked for in the first place. The people of Ferguson have promptly restarted protests because they are not satisfied.
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Ferguson PD has handed out a sunshine packet that names Darren Wilson as the shooting officer (a name that was directly denied earlier on). It paints a narrative of Brown swiping a box of cigars from a convenience store in a strongarm robbery. There are also some rather unclear surveillance pictures that nobody, at least in the media, are able to tell if it's even Brown or not. All they have is Brown 'fitting the description'.
Not part of the packet: any report whatsoever from Wilson or any narrative of the shooting. Or the use of force report that was asked for in the first place. The people of Ferguson have promptly restarted protests because they are not satisfied.
Not surprised, given that the entire presser amounted to "It, err, was, uh, um, Darren Wilson and oh hey look at this robbery we're going to spend our time talking about."
GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited August 2014
It just smacks of the "bury media in irrelevant bullshit" method of "complying" with a sunshine request. Someone asks for two pages of something and you send them 8 million pages of stuff that has nothing to do with it, and you hope they throw their hands up and go away before noticing the two pages they actually asked for aren't among the 8 million pages they got. Which, like, never works.
Besides, if you're going to bury the media in bullshit, BURY them in bullshit. If it's a packet they can sift through in 15 minutes, they're going to notice real fast that you didn't give them what they asked for.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
After the press conference ended and the police chief left was there the sound of a car door slamming shut and tires peeling away and then the far-off sound of a plane taking off?
https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly has links to stills from the robbery and what looks like redacted pages from the police report. I'm sure better quality stuff will be released by the media soon.
I would download a car.
0
TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
The Ferguson police chief, Thomas Jackson, said the officer was Darren Wilson, a six-year veteran of the force who had no disciplinary actions taken against him.
The officer was identified as Darren Wilson, who is white, and has been on the police force for six years. He is currently on paid administrative leave.
In his brief appearance before the media, Jackson said that no disciplinary action had been taken against Wilson. Brown was not believed to have a criminal record, either.
Okay apparently no -prior- disciplinary actions. But paid administrative leave?
I don't particularly give a shit if Brown stole cigars or not. You don't shoot robbery suspects to death full stop.
Paid administrative leave or desk duty is pretty common for officers who do heinous shit. I'm sure there are examples, but I can't remember a single instance of an officer being outright suspended without pay.
It's not necessarily because the officer was assumed to have done something wrong, it's so that officers aren't out on duty while a) the department figures out if the shooting was justified and b) the officer might be going through some shit.
why's the leave paid? because the police union.
the department are still being shitbags -- none of their release addresses the actual events of the officer shooting michael brown 10 times. i don't think anyone's going to just accept what they've released as good enough calm down until the investigation into the shooting is over.
0
AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
edited August 2014
If no disciplinary action is taken, the only lesson black men in Ferguson can really take is that ifyou fight back against the cops as if your life depended on it, should you be told to lie down and you know you are innocent, you at least have better odds.
He was about to go to college for fuck's sake. He was a "good" black man rather than a thuggy hipper-rapper. But nope. Still dead with impunity thanks to some yokel who really should know a little better.
Some areas just need a moratorium on white male police force applicants.
I don't particularly give a shit if Brown stole cigars or not. You don't shoot robbery suspects to death full stop.
Of course not. Now the argument's going to be about what happened on the side of the road after the cop told them to get the fuck on the sidewalk (I believe that was the quote). Does Ferguson not have dash-cams in their cars? Or was the cop in a personal vehicle?
It's also my understanding that the robbery hadn't even been called in (or called in at that point), so I don't believe the officer could have possibly been treating Brown as a robbery suspect. Maybe I've got that timeline wrong though...
Posts
Y'all need to pay attention to this
Kettling is an approach to policing protests that seems to exist mostly so that police can feel comfortable and up their numbers rather than in the pursuit of preventing any negative action on the part of protestors.
there's some degree of revisionism here, one that makes the argument go off course
the 1999 WTO protests marked the revival of illegalist direct action tactics during mass protests in the US (it reappeared about two decades earlier in Western Europe). these tactics were themselves evolved in response to the very same kind of police tactics that the article goes on to praise - namely, peaceful mostly-cooperative eviction - that direct action activists came to see as representative of the corruption/weakness of protesters dedicated to passive resistance (i.e. the kind of protesters that focus on making it easier for themselves to be injured, e.g., by stuffing their limbs into pipes, that sort of thing. Remember those?).
if you have protesters who are dedicated to direct action, then Salt-Lake-City style eviction described in the article is weak; the whole point of the tactic is to prevent such evictions from being successful at dismantling protest sites, and forcing a physical confrontation with the police
it's been more than a decade since 1999 and, at least in the US, swaggering rhetoric about the power of direct action against the state has largely shifted from the left to the right. Occupy went through a period of angst where its leading organisers took pains to publicly denounce direct action. It was always dubious to convince oneself that one can out-bomb the riot police, so some evolution in attitudes is to be expected. But the important point is that there is no one universally-applicable way for police to respond to protests - rather, it is a continually shifting landscape of police tactics against protester tactics. There are scenarios where rolling in the armoured trucks is sensible - e.g., when the use of molotov cocktails and opportunistic attacks on despised local enemies has become institutionalized amongst protesters. It is hard to envision a scenario where a Belfast protest will turn out better with fewer armoured officers and cars.
how can the police keep up with what protesters intend to do? well, this is the bit where 'engagement with the community' and a deeper empathy with the discontented comes into play. That doesn't mean agreement - to bring up Belfast as an example again, one doesn't have to agree to sense that what loyalists want is a right to march through republican neighbourhoods and vice versa, to predictable results (and that the answer should be a continual denial of this desire). But there must be some sense of the scope of the dispute.
it is a direct answer to the tactic of smashing things and then vanishing into a fast-moving crowd, by making the crowd not fast moving at all, to put it simply
things are still smashed but in a much smaller area
what do you suggest instead?
Edit: They've released details of a forced robbery that took place before the shooting, of which he was on the scene. The police department isn't explicitely linking the two, but it appears the narrative is that of being mistaken for the one who commited the robbery.
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
I get where you're coming from, but I think the change in the tone of reporting is because of how much of a 180 this situation turned once they brought in police weren't treating the civilian population like enemy combatants in a military zone.
Talk about being on the wrong side of history here.
wtf
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Among other things indicating this chief was stalling like crazy. I'm sure the video will leak at some point.
abolish the wage system
So, no?
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
link?
There's like a hundred pages of discussion in the police thread, so...
Yes? If nothing comes of this except "the state police sure are nice" and everyone walks away without anything coming of it then it most certainly is.
if you dig through papers from the 1960s and 1970s directly covering the CRM, such fear and misinformation seems typical (the keyword is "communists", though)
it is only after the fact that everyone pretends that they totally didn't believe all that stuff
If everyone walks away without anything coming of it it's not a victory. It's a defeat. If people walk away with nothing coming of it except the idle thought that the state police sure are nice then it would be 'cold comfort', or a 'silver lining'.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Not part of the packet: any report whatsoever from Wilson or any narrative of the shooting. Or the use of force report that was asked for in the first place. The people of Ferguson have promptly restarted protests because they are not satisfied.
Not surprised, given that the entire presser amounted to "It, err, was, uh, um, Darren Wilson and oh hey look at this robbery we're going to spend our time talking about."
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Besides, if you're going to bury the media in bullshit, BURY them in bullshit. If it's a packet they can sift through in 15 minutes, they're going to notice real fast that you didn't give them what they asked for.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
The Ferguson police chief, Thomas Jackson, said the officer was Darren Wilson, a six-year veteran of the force who had no disciplinary actions taken against him.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-police-name-michael-brown
The officer was identified as Darren Wilson, who is white, and has been on the police force for six years. He is currently on paid administrative leave.
In his brief appearance before the media, Jackson said that no disciplinary action had been taken against Wilson. Brown was not believed to have a criminal record, either.
Okay apparently no -prior- disciplinary actions. But paid administrative leave?
SOP for any LEO who shoots a suspect.
Paid administrative leave or desk duty is pretty common for officers who do heinous shit. I'm sure there are examples, but I can't remember a single instance of an officer being outright suspended without pay.
why's the leave paid? because the police union.
the department are still being shitbags -- none of their release addresses the actual events of the officer shooting michael brown 10 times. i don't think anyone's going to just accept what they've released as good enough calm down until the investigation into the shooting is over.
He was about to go to college for fuck's sake. He was a "good" black man rather than a thuggy hipper-rapper. But nope. Still dead with impunity thanks to some yokel who really should know a little better.
Some areas just need a moratorium on white male police force applicants.
Okay so no white folks can be police officers.
What happens when no blacks or latinos want the job?
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Of course not. Now the argument's going to be about what happened on the side of the road after the cop told them to get the fuck on the sidewalk (I believe that was the quote). Does Ferguson not have dash-cams in their cars? Or was the cop in a personal vehicle?
It's also my understanding that the robbery hadn't even been called in (or called in at that point), so I don't believe the officer could have possibly been treating Brown as a robbery suspect. Maybe I've got that timeline wrong though...
They have like 2, but don't have any money to put them on the cruisers or something like that.