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Alpha Protocol: Apparently now an Obsidian gossip thread

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  • ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    Heck is more like the guy that was gonna get blamed for shit.

    Taiwan has some issues with immigration policies.

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    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
  • muninnmuninn Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    I emptied a clip into a guard at point blank range. Not a single shot hit. Either he was fucking Agent Smith, or there is something seriously wrong with this game. And it's not just the gunplay. I mean stuff like how incredibly stupid the guards are, or the timer on the conversation wheel. Just genuinely bad choices.

    I should stress, I do like this game. I really do. But there are genuinely, objectively bad things in it.

    That's exactly what I mean by refusing to play along with the game, and instead complaing that it isn't just another UE3 covershooter

    Not really, its just that someone didn't program target distance as a variable, or tweaked it so that it actually makes sense in the game world.

  • OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    The conversation timer was horrible.

    As a lover of narratives, it's my least favorite part of the game.

    The conversation timer was interesting, because it forced you to make a decision. There were a few decisions that were made for me because I wasn't decisive enough, and quite frankly, I like that.

    Probably wouldn't like that in the 5th playthrough, but for the first few times through, it's a neat thing that moves the conversations along in a way that most other RPG conversations don't.

  • EtiowsaEtiowsa Registered User regular
    I'm sorry, but I should be able to shoot things in a game with guns. An operative of the United States' most elite and top secret intelligence agency should be able to hit a target standing all of six feet in front of him. Don't give me guff about playing the game wrong. Look at New Vegas, even with zero in guns, you can still get a shot or two in.

    But you kinda were. The game is designed such that spraying wildly with certain weapons doesn't work. It's not really a skill based shooter, you can't just override the mechanics behind each weapon. If you want to go rambo you're much better off using SMGs of a shotgun. Anything else is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Alpha Protocol is definitely a fascinating game. I can't call it a good one, but it is incredibly interesting. In terms of cast, it's the best of Obsidian's game. These characters are fascinating, and some of them, like Sis and Stephen Heck would make for amazing protagonists in their own rights.

    The trouble is in the gameplay. The godawful, barely functioning gameplay.

    I'm not even sure the cast is that great.

    Heck, yes. And there's some nice secrets to most of the cast, (or all) but mostly they're... okay. Like, a trick a lot of things use is to open with a character having a comedic or otherwise prominent trait, and then when you dig deeper you get them as a person instead of a one note joke.

    Here, something like half the cast doesn't get the first interesting note to draw you in. And they're different under the surface, but not always interesting. Like, the facts about them are awesome. They don't always live up.
    Also, I can't tell if it's intentional that Albatross, for all his acting smooth and professional, is a total fuckup. Like, if it's on purpose, props to Obsidian, that's subtle but effective work, even if the bit at the mansion still makes no sense. If he's meant to be a pro, then... yeah.
    Albatross is a total fuck up. G22 is one of those failed Alpha Protocols, like Deus Vult, that had to splinter off. He's basically just a beuracrat, and had no business being in the field. I'm honestly not sure what the hell he was doing out there.
    Yeah, that bit is the bit I felt was bad even if you're intended to think "For all this guy's bluster, he's kinda crap at this". Like, there's not being as good as you think, and there's being in the field when that's what you have people for.
    The only line of thought that makes sense to me in that scenario is that he's trying to limit the contact between Mike and Sis. Given some players intentions towards Sis, this is understandable.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Heck is obviously the best, but Marburg gets a close second.

    There is no one I love to murder in any video game -ever- more than Conrad Marburg.

    Greatly written.

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Marburg was great. He honestly got some of the best interactions with Mike. A lot of Rome feels kind of random to me, but I love it just for Marburg.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    In Rome, you have that one mission at a villa where you're camped out with a sniper rifle gathering info on various people. The main target it possible al-Samad, possibly not. You get the choice to shoot him, but Mina's all "I dunno lol."

    Oh, that?
    I get the feeling that it's a victim of cut content. You shoot him, he dies. You don't shoot him, he dies anyway. Leland or Marburg has him killed for reasons.

    I can't remember if the game ever said, but he isn't really al-Samad. Mina can't tell because the data is too conflicting, but I believe that if you don't kill him and then meet up with Marburg he says basically that you were supposed to do it for them just to get him out of the way. Or something like that.
    Also.

    About Mina.
    I know she's NSA. But what was all that about her ordering the strike on you in Saudi Arabia about?

    Well...
    Did she? Pretty sure that was Parker. It was Mina who warned Mike about it and she basically got him assigned to the mission instead of Darcy so she could use Thorton to bring down AP.

  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Yeah, pretty sure it was cut content. Why else would you need to wear a tux just to snipe

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    Yeah, pretty sure it was cut content. Why else would you need to wear a tux just to snipe

    Why wouldn't you?

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    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • OatsOats Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    Yeah, pretty sure it was cut content. Why else would you need to wear a tux just to snipe

    Why wouldn't you?

    I cannot help but hear this in H. Jon Benjamin's voice.

  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Do you think it's trademarked?Registered User regular
    About Heck.
    I love the implication that he's not even a real agent. Just some crazy fuck going wild in Taipei. He's a competent Dale Gribble, basically.
    There's some serious implications in the opposite direction in Rome.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Oats wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    Yeah, pretty sure it was cut content. Why else would you need to wear a tux just to snipe

    Why wouldn't you?

    I cannot help but hear this in H. Jon Benjamin's voice.

    "Why wouldn't I? Cyril, have you ever tried firing a sniper rifle in a tuxedo? Can't do it from a prone position with the restricted upper arm movement!

    Turtleneck."

  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    I only wish there were more opportunities to drink in Alpha Protocol. It just doesn't feel like an Archer playthrough without constantly boozing it up.

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  • cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    I don't know why so many people complain about the shooting in AP. Sure, you can't hit the broad side of a barn while aiming, but this is the same game that lets you line up headshots from behind cover, and gives you Predator powers so you can duck walk over to 4 dudes in a room and throat chop them all into submission. Also Chain Shot.

    And shooting just sets off alarms that cause more people to come in that you have to shoot. Oddly, shooting in this game usually begets more shooting, and if it's all bad just stay away.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    There are three primary ways I play Alpha Protocol:

    Silent, sneaky, pistol wielding, never-gonna-catch-me-ever Mike.

    Throat punching, martial arts Mike.

    Room clearing, unstoppable, shotgun Mike.

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    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Orca wrote: »
    The conversation timer was horrible.

    As a lover of narratives, it's my least favorite part of the game.

    The conversation timer was interesting, because it forced you to make a decision. There were a few decisions that were made for me because I wasn't decisive enough, and quite frankly, I like that.

    Probably wouldn't like that in the 5th playthrough, but for the first few times through, it's a neat thing that moves the conversations along in a way that most other RPG conversations don't.

    I will have no one speak ill will of the dialogue timers. They were one thing I want to see more, and the Walking Dead Telltale game is the only other game I see it. It sets up tension, forces you to make split second decisions, and it's easy enough to try other options later. Plus my favorite part of the dialogue timers... It makes it feel like a goddamn conversation. No perusing your options while two grown men fidget and stare at each other awkwardly.

    Quiotu on
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  • ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    Agreed.

    "Wrex."
    "Shepard."

    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Room clearing, unstoppable, shotgun Mike.

    With a beard.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    What's the build for unstoppable shotgun Mike?

  • EtiowsaEtiowsa Registered User regular
    Max shotguns, shoot mans.

  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    Get shotgun

    Aim shotgun at mans

    shoot mans.

  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Hobobeard not required, but strongly recommended

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    What's the build for unstoppable shotgun Mike?

    Max shotgun, max endurance, heavy armor, fuck stealth.

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    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    My first playthrough of this game was pistols/stealth, and I popped into the thread to gush and so many people were complaining about how difficult the game was. I did not understand.

  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    It's not a difficult game, just an annoying one.

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  • Darth_MogsDarth_Mogs Registered User regular
    My first playthrough of this game was pistols/stealth, and I popped into the thread to gush and so many people were complaining about how difficult the game was. I did not understand.

    I went the same way and it was all gravy

    and then it wasn't until I learned to love the Brayko fight

    But then it was good again.

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  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    It's not a difficult game, just an annoying one.

    It's a game where, at least when I played it, I could tell what the devs had in mind before Sega said they couldn't do that. Remember this was supposed to be more like Fallout, a quote from Sega on what had to change. So it's rather obvious that coming in as a spy and using a pistol was the starting point. It's why there's so many missions where sneaking is the best option. Later on you had the option of branching out, but all the choices were probably available.

    The classes probably came in later, which is why they're not balanced well. It also explains why the pistol is so overpowered, because they tried to balance it with the other class weapons and overcompensated. I'd honestly like the see the first idea they had, because it's probably much better balanced.

    It's a game that's finished but really not polished, but enough that people can work with it and make their own fun. The story and dialogue itself is worth pushing through the combat heavy sections.

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    A more Fallout kind deal where you could talk your way out of things more often would've been ideal.

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  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    My first playthrough of this game was pistols/stealth, and I popped into the thread to gush and so many people were complaining about how difficult the game was. I did not understand.

    It's difficult only because people refuse to play the game as it is, and try to play it as a shooter. And when they miss they learn nothing and try again.

  • C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    Quiotu wrote: »
    It's not a difficult game, just an annoying one.

    It's a game where, at least when I played it, I could tell what the devs had in mind before Sega said they couldn't do that. Remember this was supposed to be more like Fallout, a quote from Sega on what had to change. So it's rather obvious that coming in as a spy and using a pistol was the starting point. It's why there's so many missions where sneaking is the best option. Later on you had the option of branching out, but all the choices were probably available.

    The classes probably came in later, which is why they're not balanced well. It also explains why the pistol is so overpowered, because they tried to balance it with the other class weapons and overcompensated. I'd honestly like the see the first idea they had, because it's probably much better balanced.

    It's a game that's finished but really not polished, but enough that people can work with it and make their own fun. The story and dialogue itself is worth pushing through the combat heavy sections.

    It's not just SEGA.

    The problem was that everybody had something different in mind (internal and external). Especially in how to approach the project. SEGA had to step in and say *That's how we do it now*. Even if the endresult wasn't optimal. It went through THREE different iterations. And its not like they just began from scratch on the next one. Both Charachters and assets, even if their purpose significantly changed, were taken over.
    "We meandered—I think that's the best way to say it," Urquhart said. "We meandered for quite a while on that project. It took us a long time to get to the point where we were where we needed to be."

    They didn't have any sort of game specification document, Urquhart said, which is now something they require for all of their games: a listed, documented set of guidelines for exactly how a game will be designed and developed. They also didn't determine exactly who they were making the game for—action players? RPG fans? shooter addicts?—which Urquhart said was a serious detriment.

    "We started getting into these arguments which were completely not helpful," he said. "Is it 70% RPG or 30% action, or is it 46% action and 50%... These things were not helpful. What we needed to say is: in a mission, Michael can do these things, you know, and this is the toolkit. He can unlock things, he can hack things, he can throw bombs, he can interact this way, he can interact that way."

    Part of the problem was Sega's indecision, Urquhart said. "A great example is there was a whole segment of the game, which was really cool, and it probably cost $500,000 to make. It was a long sequence, lots of mocap and all this kind of stuff. And at the time Sega felt it just didn't fit the game... and so $500,000 cut. And you know, I understand: they pay us to make the game. It's totally their right to do that. It can just derail."


    The game we got was basically a frankenstein monster put together out of material that was very different at multiple points during development. That's also how 700'000 sold copies weren't nearly enough.

  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    My first playthrough of this game was pistols/stealth, and I popped into the thread to gush and so many people were complaining about how difficult the game was. I did not understand.

    It's difficult only because people refuse to play the game as it is, and try to play it as a shooter. And when they miss they learn nothing and try again.

    If you don't want me to shoot people, why give me a gun? Don't mask this as playing the game wrong, in no way does a person who is among the best of the best, the most elite in his field, the spy of fucking spies, be able to miss every single shot at point blank.

    That's ridiculous.

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  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    My first playthrough of this game was pistols/stealth, and I popped into the thread to gush and so many people were complaining about how difficult the game was. I did not understand.

    It's difficult only because people refuse to play the game as it is, and try to play it as a shooter. And when they miss they learn nothing and try again.

    If you don't want me to shoot people, why give me a gun? Don't mask this as playing the game wrong, in no way does a person who is among the best of the best, the most elite in his field, the spy of fucking spies, be able to miss every single shot at point blank.

    That's ridiculous.

    The "your playing it wrong" doesn't come up because you're using guns. Or, at least, I don't bring it up because of that. It normally comes up when people try to play it like a shooter. The underlying engine in Alpha Protocol is an RPG engine with random dice rolls, so playing it like a straight shooter isn't going to work very well, because you can have a long string of low rolls on that Dice Engine, and early in the game you don't have enough skill points in the gun skills to balance that out, so you will miss a lot.

    If you don't like that, that's cool. I've got no problems with that. Hell, most people not liking that why Bioware dropped that idea in Mass Effect 2 and 3. I think, had Alpha Protocol survived as a franchise, we would have seen similar changes in the sequel.

    The thing is, though, if you're going to play the game, you have to concede to the mechanics of the game, which in this case is "Random dice rolls can screw you over big time." Or you can say "This is no fun for me" and stop playing. That's cool, too.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    My first playthrough of this game was pistols/stealth, and I popped into the thread to gush and so many people were complaining about how difficult the game was. I did not understand.

    It's difficult only because people refuse to play the game as it is, and try to play it as a shooter. And when they miss they learn nothing and try again.

    If you don't want me to shoot people, why give me a gun? Don't mask this as playing the game wrong, in no way does a person who is among the best of the best, the most elite in his field, the spy of fucking spies, be able to miss every single shot at point blank.

    That's ridiculous.
    Well he can also turn invisible. RPGs have a lot of ridiculous mechanics, usually. You're supposed to suspend your disbelief, not whine about how you'd rather be playing Gears of War.

  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    My first playthrough of this game was pistols/stealth, and I popped into the thread to gush and so many people were complaining about how difficult the game was. I did not understand.

    It's difficult only because people refuse to play the game as it is, and try to play it as a shooter. And when they miss they learn nothing and try again.

    If you don't want me to shoot people, why give me a gun? Don't mask this as playing the game wrong, in no way does a person who is among the best of the best, the most elite in his field, the spy of fucking spies, be able to miss every single shot at point blank.

    That's ridiculous.
    Well he can also turn invisible. RPGs have a lot of ridiculous mechanics, usually. You're supposed to suspend your disbelief, not whine about how you'd rather be playing Gears of War.

    Also, doing a little homework before buying a game is usually a good idea. If the people behind a lot of Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, NeverWinter Nights, KOTOR and Fallout games are making an espionage shooter, assuming it's a pure shooter is probably a really bad choice.

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  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Quiotu wrote: »
    My first playthrough of this game was pistols/stealth, and I popped into the thread to gush and so many people were complaining about how difficult the game was. I did not understand.

    It's difficult only because people refuse to play the game as it is, and try to play it as a shooter. And when they miss they learn nothing and try again.

    If you don't want me to shoot people, why give me a gun? Don't mask this as playing the game wrong, in no way does a person who is among the best of the best, the most elite in his field, the spy of fucking spies, be able to miss every single shot at point blank.

    That's ridiculous.
    Well he can also turn invisible. RPGs have a lot of ridiculous mechanics, usually. You're supposed to suspend your disbelief, not whine about how you'd rather be playing Gears of War.

    Also, doing a little homework before buying a game is usually a good idea. If the people behind a lot of Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, NeverWinter Nights, KOTOR and Fallout games are making an espionage shooter, assuming it's a pure shooter is probably a really bad choice.

    If only they had pointed out at the beginning that it was and RPG and not a shooter!

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    Oh.

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  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    But there's a gun on the cover!

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    And no Rocket Propelled Grenades.

  • C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited September 2014
    Quiotu wrote: »
    My first playthrough of this game was pistols/stealth, and I popped into the thread to gush and so many people were complaining about how difficult the game was. I did not understand.

    It's difficult only because people refuse to play the game as it is, and try to play it as a shooter. And when they miss they learn nothing and try again.

    If you don't want me to shoot people, why give me a gun? Don't mask this as playing the game wrong, in no way does a person who is among the best of the best, the most elite in his field, the spy of fucking spies, be able to miss every single shot at point blank.

    That's ridiculous.
    Well he can also turn invisible. RPGs have a lot of ridiculous mechanics, usually. You're supposed to suspend your disbelief, not whine about how you'd rather be playing Gears of War.

    Also, doing a little homework before buying a game is usually a good idea. If the people behind a lot of Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, NeverWinter Nights, KOTOR and Fallout games are making an espionage shooter, assuming it's a pure shooter is probably a really bad choice.

    Except no.

    Nemo's complaint was something that was in the end mandated by SEGA (which is a consequence of the whole post I've written above). Several team members weren't so enthralled by it either including Chris Avellone.

    Hell, Josh Sawyer brought it up 2 years later as an example what NOT to do.

    There's really no reason this couldn't have been handled better and if Obsidian ever gets the chance to do Alpha Protocol II they would do lots of things different. Especially in regards to mechanics.

    C2B on
  • C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
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