On Steam sale today for $10. How done is this game currently? I'm super-leery of early access stuff.
If you aren't interested in playing along while its being developed I'd say hold off, it goes on sale fairly regularly.
I've had fun playing whats currently there but its certainly not a complete game. You can control the shape of the prison but otherwise you'll be building all the same facilities in every game unless you want the prison to descend into riots.
I came back to it after a hiatus, and it's pretty good still. It's all sandbox now, there's no real story to it, but if feels like the prison mechanics are all there. No gamebreaking bugs for me except for occasional wierdness with complicated foundations.
Can I set ridiculously strict rules and physically abuse prisoners who break them? I checked way earlier in the alpha and it wasn't possible to harm inmates purposely in any way.
You can dictate their day through the regime (shower at 7am, eat at 8am, yard at 9am, etc). You can also control the prison policies to set different punishments for different things. Punishments are limited to lockdown in cell or solitary, and an automatic search of them and/or their cell.
You don't get to arbitrarily beat people.
EDIT: BUT just for example, I plan on building my tiny solitary confinement cells right next to the kennels. So not only do they not have any windows beds or toilets in solitary, they also have dogs barking, all the time. That's how I imagine it anyways.
f3rret on
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David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
For those of you, like me, who did not know that fire is actually in the game, I can now reveal that fire is actually in the game.
Went off to turn my holding cell into an exports room, came back to a roaring inferno that decimated half my prison, not to mention the half a dozen prisoners that braved the flames to escape through the ruined outer wall.
Sprinklers save lives, people.
Also the new logic gates/automated door openers look interesting.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Is it worthwhile designating cell blocks for certain security ratings?
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited September 2014
Hahaha, so they just released another patch for this that gives prisoners Dwarf Fortress-esque combat/behavior traits, such as martial-arts masters, traits to resist being subdued, traits to instigate dissatisfaction in nearby prisoner, and even one (Cop Killer) that makes it likely that guards won't restrain themselves if the prisoner loses it.
The best part is that you can also rarely get "legendary" prisoners now that will have multiple traits, making them extremely hazardous if left free in the general population.
EDIT: Holy crap, lots of stuff updated with this patch. If there's a riot, the max sec prisoners will go right after your snitches and ex-cop prisoners to dispense "justice". Prisoners that are near each other will actually team up to build tunnels. Dog patrols will actually sniff out and mark tunnels if they walk over the top of them, letting you search out where the tunnel comes from. Offenses automatically bump prisoners up security levels.
Game looks waaaaay more dynamic now, with a LOT more guarantee of problems and things to solve.
I made a supermax designated cell block for those trouble makers. I got one of the legendary guys, he ended up getting shot by an armed guard after picking a fight with another cop.
I think you may be right. I haven't really played properly since before they added dogs and classrooms e.t.c, so there's a lot of new things I haven't played with yet. For example, it was a bit of a shock finding out that I actually have to train my inmates before they can use the workshop now.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I think you may be right. I haven't really played properly since before they added dogs and classrooms e.t.c, so there's a lot of new things I haven't played with yet. For example, it was a bit of a shock finding out that I actually have to train my inmates before they can use the workshop now.
And you have to keep them happy in order for them to WANT to be trained.
I think you may be right. I haven't really played properly since before they added dogs and classrooms e.t.c, so there's a lot of new things I haven't played with yet. For example, it was a bit of a shock finding out that I actually have to train my inmates before they can use the workshop now.
And you have to keep them happy in order for them to WANT to be trained.
The beatings will continue until morale improves! I guess that explains why I had four guys who wanted to do the workshop training, then had a big fight break out and now only two of them do. Also, are the kitchens broken right now? I don't seem to be able to assign any prisoners to it, although they seem to be able to do the training there just fine.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
If you're getting back into this, make sure to take advantage of the THOROUGHLY AWESOME feature named "Valuation" at the bottom of the reports tab. Instead of having to start from scratch, you can sell your old prison and use that money towards the next one. Makes these patches actually fun to get, because you can dive straight into building a massive new prison that accomadates the new features with the cash from the old one instead of taking forever earning the cash.
Started my current prison with about $420k in cash and I'm already getting it set to take on upwards of a hundred prisoners, and I'll probably have more than a hundred thousand left over before the prison is finished.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I think you may be right. I haven't really played properly since before they added dogs and classrooms e.t.c, so there's a lot of new things I haven't played with yet. For example, it was a bit of a shock finding out that I actually have to train my inmates before they can use the workshop now.
And you have to keep them happy in order for them to WANT to be trained.
The beatings will continue until morale improves! I guess that explains why I had four guys who wanted to do the workshop training, then had a big fight break out and now only two of them do. Also, are the kitchens broken right now? I don't seem to be able to assign any prisoners to it, although they seem to be able to do the training there just fine.
They weren't broken in the last update, but I haven't played the new one so it's possible.
Are you sure they are doing the training? The prisoners who are in the kitchen might just be cleaning. The programs tab will show you how many qualified prisoners you have for the kitchen.
Also are laundries just completely broken beyond 1? I'm trying to have them separate from Med/Max/Supermax, and they keep starting riots because no one has clothes.
Those are for the Supermax prisoners, I just toss in everything to keep them docile. The problem is the clothing need is never finished so they get grumpy
Could be worse; the worst combination I can think of is "Extremely Volatile" and "Instigator" together. In other words, he flips out at the drop of a hat for no reason all, and when he does he has a clique of followers all backing him up. I have a feeling I might have one of those given I've had two fights start for seemingly no reason at all so far...
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
These changes sound like they're rapidly pushing the game in the "Dwarf Fortress grief spiral" direction.
It's a good thing. Nobody ever tells stories about how everything went right in their fortress.
I think you may be right. I haven't really played properly since before they added dogs and classrooms e.t.c, so there's a lot of new things I haven't played with yet. For example, it was a bit of a shock finding out that I actually have to train my inmates before they can use the workshop now.
And you have to keep them happy in order for them to WANT to be trained.
The beatings will continue until morale improves! I guess that explains why I had four guys who wanted to do the workshop training, then had a big fight break out and now only two of them do. Also, are the kitchens broken right now? I don't seem to be able to assign any prisoners to it, although they seem to be able to do the training there just fine.
They weren't broken in the last update, but I haven't played the new one so it's possible.
Are you sure they are doing the training? The prisoners who are in the kitchen might just be cleaning. The programs tab will show you how many qualified prisoners you have for the kitchen.
I figured it out after googling the problem; it doesn't count as a proper "room" on the deployment screen unless its surrounded by walls and doors. Which I thought it was, but apparently the game didn't like the fact that the tile the door itself was on was connected to the canteen.
I also figured out why fights kept breaking out seemingly at random; I'd assumed someone had the "volatile" trait and I just hadn't unlocked it yet, but no. The actual problem was that I had a snitch. Not one that I'd turned mind you, he arrived in my prison like that, and my more opportunistic inmates were taking every opportunity to beat up the poor bastard... who is now dead. Problem... solved?
*edit* Maybe not, there are two or three fuckers who keep starting fights regardless, and now I have two dead inmates in as many days. Clearly I'm going to have to seperate the MaxSec prisoners, or at least make sure they shower at different time, since that seems to be where people are consistently getting their daily dose of vitamin shiv. I also searched a whole cell block just for funzies and holy shit where are you guys getting all these drugs? Literally every other prisoner had either drugs or a weapon, and one of them had a cell phone. This makes me worried about the escape tunnels I might not be seeing. I certainly can't complain that the game is too easy or boring anymore!
Mr Ray on
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David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
You can actually make cells with individual showers, as long as... I think there just needs to be a door between what counts as the cell and what counts as the shower. If you go from lockup to showertime, the prisoners go to the nearest shower which is the one in their cell.
That's how I got around my showers turning into the Hunger Games every morning.
You can actually make cells with individual showers, as long as... I think there just needs to be a door between what counts as the cell and what counts as the shower. If you go from lockup to showertime, the prisoners go to the nearest shower which is the one in their cell.
That's how I got around my showers turning into the Hunger Games every morning.
Coupled with the above Supermax cells they're more of a cosy studio apartment than an oppressive confine
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
You can actually make cells with individual showers, as long as... I think there just needs to be a door between what counts as the cell and what counts as the shower. If you go from lockup to showertime, the prisoners go to the nearest shower which is the one in their cell.
That's how I got around my showers turning into the Hunger Games every morning.
Coupled with the above Supermax cells they're more of a cosy studio apartment than an oppressive confine
Which sorta makes sense. The more realistic the simulation in this game gets, the more accurate to life it will become, and the better success you'll have by emulating European prison systems with their higher average level of luxury, rather than the stereotypical American ones.
You can actually make cells with individual showers, as long as... I think there just needs to be a door between what counts as the cell and what counts as the shower. If you go from lockup to showertime, the prisoners go to the nearest shower which is the one in their cell.
That's how I got around my showers turning into the Hunger Games every morning.
Coupled with the above Supermax cells they're more of a cosy studio apartment than an oppressive confine
Which sorta makes sense. The more realistic the simulation in this game gets, the more accurate to life it will become, and the better success you'll have by emulating European prison systems with their higher average level of luxury, rather than the stereotypical American ones.
Well, there are different layers to the idea of success. A more egalitarian prison will be more successful than an oppressive one at actually reforming criminals & improving society, while an oppressive prison will just contribute to the sort of cultural divide between 'people who went to jail / are in jail' vs 'everyone else' that we see a lot of in North America.
But on a smaller scale, the prison itself can work just fine as an oppressive instrument. It's not like the warden needs to give a shit about the impact his prison has on society at large or the long term effects of devastating sentencing on the life of a given prisoner; the worst that'll happen is that his prison will start churning-out consummate career criminals that other people will have to deal with. The building itself can operate just fine while doing so.
@Mr Ray There's also an Ex-Law trait that tends to get guys murdered. Thats one I wish wouldn't be hidden since its logical for it to not be and you can just slap him in protective custody so he doesn't get murdered as soon as he walks in the prison
@Mr Ray There's also an Ex-Law trait that tends to get guys murdered. Thats one I wish wouldn't be hidden since its logical for it to not be and you can just slap him in protective custody so he doesn't get murdered as soon as he walks in the prison
Yeah, its possible someone has that, but honestly it just seems like they're beating up dudes at random now; after three deaths in four days I think I'm going to have to set up something like your "luxury cell" solution for my MaxSec guys. And then make sure there is absolutely no overlap between when they're in the dining room and when the other prisoners are, even if they have to eat their meals at 3am and sleep during the day. Having separate meal and shower times for my normal and MaxSec prisoners seems to have helped, but they still overlap during free time and when entering/leaving the canteen at meal times. I just wish I could also ban them from work programs, where they inevitably spend all their time making weapons.
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David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
You can't make the workshop only accessible to mid-sec prisoners?
So you take the fact that you have something like 2 known snitches in protective custody and combine it with the fact that you accidentally left an hour overlap for eating between the med-sec and protected inmates. Then you calculate the chances of one of those guys getting stabbed at dinner.
The chances are always 100%.
To which I have to say, "snitches get stiches" is a total lie. Because you don't stitch up corpses.
EDIT: Haha, wow, these guys really hates snitches. Riot in the lunchroom, snitch gets stabbed visiting his family by another prisoner visiting his family. That's dedication.
EDIT EDIT: You would think that all the blood on the floors and walls would make the prisoners less willing to fight, but you'd be wrong. They fight just as much, then have the cheek to moan about hygiene conditions.
You can't make the workshop only accessible to mid-sec prisoners?
Hmm, I guess that could work. Of course that means I wouldn't be able to let low-sec prisoners use it without making a whole separate workshop for them. The deployment screen really needs to be a little more flexible, or at least have an "everyone but max/supermax" clearance level.
My prison is almost completely broke after I went way overboard on reform programs, so I've had to scrap them all for the time being. I feel like I'm sort of just barely holding on rather than breezing through like I used to, and I'm enjoying the challenge. These actually feel like dangerous felons now, not just unruly schoolchildren.
I just wish I could also ban them from work programs, where they inevitably spend all their time making weapons.
Give a man a shiv, and he will murder once. Teach a man to make his own shiv, and he will murder forever.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited September 2014
Soooooo, I've found a foolproof way to prevent problems with protected inmates in the prison population. The solution is, um, to let them get stabbed, and then you don't need to worry about keeping them separate. Then just turn violent offenders into confidential informants and cut them loose before you need to protect them.
PROBLEM SOLVED.
Also, inmates are hellishly clever bastards with the new tunneling system. Had five inmates working together to tunnel their way out from the center of the prison across a bit of yard and up to the last square of foundation of an outer patroling hallway. I literally caught the bastards in the act of the escaping thanks to a dog patrol. Seriously, these guys are waaaay better at tunnels now.
Soooooo, I've found a foolproof way to prevent problems with protected inmates in the prison population. The solution is, um, to let them get stabbed, and then you don't need to worry about keeping them separate. Then just turn violent offenders into confidential informants and cut them loose before you need to protect them.
PROBLEM SOLVED.
Also, inmates are hellishly clever bastards with the new tunneling system. Had five inmates working together to tunnel their way out from the center of the prison across a bit of yard and up to the last square of foundation of an outer patroling hallway. I literally caught the bastards in the act of the escaping thanks to a dog patrol. Seriously, these guys are waaaay better at tunnels now.
Is there any way to detect tunnels without dogs? Because I have a paranoid feeling that several tunnels are being dug in my prison right now, and I'm probably only going to find out where they are when half a dozen prisoners suddenly go missing at once. Hadn't even thought about dealing with protected custody inmates yet, I just don't have the cash to keep all of these different categories separate
I might have to just have my Max sec guys stay in the same cells as my mid-sec ones, but only let them out to eat, shower and have free time at night. I can maybe deal with a handful of SuperMax guys in "luxury" cells that they basically never leave, but I have far too many Max sec guys to give them all the VIP treatment.
Mr Ray on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I think pulling up toilets will reveal the origin of a tunnel if it's where a tunnel starts, and checking a cells has a chance of revealing a tunnel. Even dogs only have a certain chance of detecting tunnels and they have to walk over the top of them. So there really is a good reason to periodically and randomly check cells.
On top of that, prisoners go right for water mains now, so make sure they aren't running outside the prison.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
So I guess the days of keeping my power generation and water across the road from the prison are done.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Does the game handle building cues a little better now? The last time I played I routinely came up against an annoying bug that construction workers wouldn't construct or remove certain items, even though there was nothing else left on their list.
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If you aren't interested in playing along while its being developed I'd say hold off, it goes on sale fairly regularly.
I've had fun playing whats currently there but its certainly not a complete game. You can control the shape of the prison but otherwise you'll be building all the same facilities in every game unless you want the prison to descend into riots.
I like to run a tight ship.
You don't get to arbitrarily beat people.
EDIT: BUT just for example, I plan on building my tiny solitary confinement cells right next to the kennels. So not only do they not have any windows beds or toilets in solitary, they also have dogs barking, all the time. That's how I imagine it anyways.
Went off to turn my holding cell into an exports room, came back to a roaring inferno that decimated half my prison, not to mention the half a dozen prisoners that braved the flames to escape through the ruined outer wall.
Sprinklers save lives, people.
Also the new logic gates/automated door openers look interesting.
The best part is that you can also rarely get "legendary" prisoners now that will have multiple traits, making them extremely hazardous if left free in the general population.
EDIT: Holy crap, lots of stuff updated with this patch. If there's a riot, the max sec prisoners will go right after your snitches and ex-cop prisoners to dispense "justice". Prisoners that are near each other will actually team up to build tunnels. Dog patrols will actually sniff out and mark tunnels if they walk over the top of them, letting you search out where the tunnel comes from. Offenses automatically bump prisoners up security levels.
Game looks waaaaay more dynamic now, with a LOT more guarantee of problems and things to solve.
I think you may be right. I haven't really played properly since before they added dogs and classrooms e.t.c, so there's a lot of new things I haven't played with yet. For example, it was a bit of a shock finding out that I actually have to train my inmates before they can use the workshop now.
And you have to keep them happy in order for them to WANT to be trained.
The beatings will continue until morale improves! I guess that explains why I had four guys who wanted to do the workshop training, then had a big fight break out and now only two of them do. Also, are the kitchens broken right now? I don't seem to be able to assign any prisoners to it, although they seem to be able to do the training there just fine.
Started my current prison with about $420k in cash and I'm already getting it set to take on upwards of a hundred prisoners, and I'll probably have more than a hundred thousand left over before the prison is finished.
They weren't broken in the last update, but I haven't played the new one so it's possible.
Are you sure they are doing the training? The prisoners who are in the kitchen might just be cleaning. The programs tab will show you how many qualified prisoners you have for the kitchen.
This fucking guy.
Also are laundries just completely broken beyond 1? I'm trying to have them separate from Med/Max/Supermax, and they keep starting riots because no one has clothes.
I'm pretty sure prisoners don't care about size of cells, just amenities.
It's a good thing. Nobody ever tells stories about how everything went right in their fortress.
I figured it out after googling the problem; it doesn't count as a proper "room" on the deployment screen unless its surrounded by walls and doors. Which I thought it was, but apparently the game didn't like the fact that the tile the door itself was on was connected to the canteen.
I also figured out why fights kept breaking out seemingly at random; I'd assumed someone had the "volatile" trait and I just hadn't unlocked it yet, but no. The actual problem was that I had a snitch. Not one that I'd turned mind you, he arrived in my prison like that, and my more opportunistic inmates were taking every opportunity to beat up the poor bastard... who is now dead. Problem... solved?
*edit* Maybe not, there are two or three fuckers who keep starting fights regardless, and now I have two dead inmates in as many days. Clearly I'm going to have to seperate the MaxSec prisoners, or at least make sure they shower at different time, since that seems to be where people are consistently getting their daily dose of vitamin shiv. I also searched a whole cell block just for funzies and holy shit where are you guys getting all these drugs? Literally every other prisoner had either drugs or a weapon, and one of them had a cell phone. This makes me worried about the escape tunnels I might not be seeing. I certainly can't complain that the game is too easy or boring anymore!
That's how I got around my showers turning into the Hunger Games every morning.
Coupled with the above Supermax cells they're more of a cosy studio apartment than an oppressive confine
Which sorta makes sense. The more realistic the simulation in this game gets, the more accurate to life it will become, and the better success you'll have by emulating European prison systems with their higher average level of luxury, rather than the stereotypical American ones.
Well, there are different layers to the idea of success. A more egalitarian prison will be more successful than an oppressive one at actually reforming criminals & improving society, while an oppressive prison will just contribute to the sort of cultural divide between 'people who went to jail / are in jail' vs 'everyone else' that we see a lot of in North America.
But on a smaller scale, the prison itself can work just fine as an oppressive instrument. It's not like the warden needs to give a shit about the impact his prison has on society at large or the long term effects of devastating sentencing on the life of a given prisoner; the worst that'll happen is that his prison will start churning-out consummate career criminals that other people will have to deal with. The building itself can operate just fine while doing so.
Yeah, its possible someone has that, but honestly it just seems like they're beating up dudes at random now; after three deaths in four days I think I'm going to have to set up something like your "luxury cell" solution for my MaxSec guys. And then make sure there is absolutely no overlap between when they're in the dining room and when the other prisoners are, even if they have to eat their meals at 3am and sleep during the day. Having separate meal and shower times for my normal and MaxSec prisoners seems to have helped, but they still overlap during free time and when entering/leaving the canteen at meal times. I just wish I could also ban them from work programs, where they inevitably spend all their time making weapons.
Everybody needs a hobby...
So you take the fact that you have something like 2 known snitches in protective custody and combine it with the fact that you accidentally left an hour overlap for eating between the med-sec and protected inmates. Then you calculate the chances of one of those guys getting stabbed at dinner.
The chances are always 100%.
To which I have to say, "snitches get stiches" is a total lie. Because you don't stitch up corpses.
EDIT: Haha, wow, these guys really hates snitches. Riot in the lunchroom, snitch gets stabbed visiting his family by another prisoner visiting his family. That's dedication.
EDIT EDIT: You would think that all the blood on the floors and walls would make the prisoners less willing to fight, but you'd be wrong. They fight just as much, then have the cheek to moan about hygiene conditions.
Hmm, I guess that could work. Of course that means I wouldn't be able to let low-sec prisoners use it without making a whole separate workshop for them. The deployment screen really needs to be a little more flexible, or at least have an "everyone but max/supermax" clearance level.
My prison is almost completely broke after I went way overboard on reform programs, so I've had to scrap them all for the time being. I feel like I'm sort of just barely holding on rather than breezing through like I used to, and I'm enjoying the challenge. These actually feel like dangerous felons now, not just unruly schoolchildren.
Give a man a shiv, and he will murder once. Teach a man to make his own shiv, and he will murder forever.
PROBLEM SOLVED.
Also, inmates are hellishly clever bastards with the new tunneling system. Had five inmates working together to tunnel their way out from the center of the prison across a bit of yard and up to the last square of foundation of an outer patroling hallway. I literally caught the bastards in the act of the escaping thanks to a dog patrol. Seriously, these guys are waaaay better at tunnels now.
Is there any way to detect tunnels without dogs? Because I have a paranoid feeling that several tunnels are being dug in my prison right now, and I'm probably only going to find out where they are when half a dozen prisoners suddenly go missing at once. Hadn't even thought about dealing with protected custody inmates yet, I just don't have the cash to keep all of these different categories separate
I might have to just have my Max sec guys stay in the same cells as my mid-sec ones, but only let them out to eat, shower and have free time at night. I can maybe deal with a handful of SuperMax guys in "luxury" cells that they basically never leave, but I have far too many Max sec guys to give them all the VIP treatment.
On top of that, prisoners go right for water mains now, so make sure they aren't running outside the prison.
Well, you'd probably be fine there; the inmates go for the shortest route out, so unless that's also the quickest way out, they won't go that way.